View Single Post
Old 03-24-2005, 11:45 PM   #2
Katherine
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Proverbs 23:13-14/Q's about the rod

I still think the rod is referring to authority here, and I agree with your point that if these verses *did* refer to spanking, it would take salvation out of God's hands, and put the power in our hands as parents.

The first thing I noticed was the word "punish" being used. Granted, most of the English versions (I checked a bunch of them online and haven't found any exceptions yet) use either punish or beat.. as in "If thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not surely die. Beat him with the rod and save his soul from death."

I know Crystal has discussed in some of her writings the word "beat" used in this context. It is the same word that is used when the sun "beat" down on Jonah, and indicates a constant presence, or perseverance.. like the sun was bearing down on him. If you consider that, and then also read the "rod" as meaning authority, It could significantly change the way these verses read.

If we are a constant presence of authority in our children's lives, they will not surely die. (although they might whine and protest and pitch a fit.. ) BE a constant presence of authority, and save their soul from hell.

Now, having said that, I personally do NOT believe that any person's actions can *impart *salvation either to themselves or anyone else, including their children. However, God might use my "constant presence of authority" as a mechanism in my child's life to save him from death. (Not sure if that makes sense.. ?)

It's also important to remember that Proverbs is a book of wisdom sayings, and many statements are figurative, not meant to be taken literally.

It's not an easy passage to deal with, IMO. Crystal might be able to clear up any more questions, or correct my explanation if necessary, and there is a very detailed discussion of these verses on her website. Here's the link http://www.aolff.org/sfpunishlr.htm
  Reply With Quote
 
X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information
  • Page Generation 0.04609 seconds
  • Memory Usage 6,922KB
  • Queries Executed 14 (?)
More Information
Template Usage:
  • (1)SHOWTHREAD_SHOWPOST
  • (1)ad_footer_end
  • (1)ad_footer_start
  • (1)ad_header_end
  • (1)ad_header_logo
  • (1)ad_navbar_below
  • (1)cyb_flashimagebanners
  • (1)footer
  • (1)gobutton
  • (1)header
  • (1)headinclude
  • (19)option
  • (1)post_groan_box
  • (1)post_groan_javascript
  • (1)post_groan_navbar_search
  • (1)post_thanks_box
  • (1)post_thanks_javascript
  • (1)post_thanks_navbar_search
  • (1)postbit_legacy
  • (1)postbit_wrapper
  • (1)spacer_close
  • (1)spacer_open 

Phrase Groups Available:
  • global
  • postbit
  • reputationlevel
  • showthread
Included Files:
  • ./showpost.php
  • ./global.php
  • ./includes/init.php
  • ./includes/class_core.php
  • ./includes/config.php
  • ./includes/functions.php
  • ./includes/class_hook.php
  • ./includes/functions_notice.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php
  • ./includes/functions_bigthree.php
  • ./includes/class_postbit.php
  • ./includes/class_bbcode.php
  • ./includes/functions_reputation.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_groan.php
  • ./includes/functions_misc.php 

Hooks Called:
  • init_startup
  • cache_permissions
  • fetch_postinfo_query
  • fetch_postinfo
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • style_fetch
  • cache_templates
  • global_start
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • global_setup_complete
  • showpost_start
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • postbit_factory
  • showpost_post
  • postbit_display_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • showpost_complete