[katiekind]

And it really does seem most of these kids turn out ok

I think generally people do "turn out ok" especially if their parents are involved and committed to them.

That's a comforting thought because we're all making mistakes in our parenting as we go along.

Still, we want to consider whether our means to any given goal is Christlike, and not only the value of the end goal. Because we are Christians, some means -- even to a good goal -- are not open to us.

Yes, many Christians think, "I must spank for direct defiance, even if for nothing else." I do not know where they get that idea but you're right, it is very prevalent.

I don't think direct defiance in a two year old is so very scary. I also don't think that parents have total access to the mind of a two year old to be able to know "THAT was Direct Personal Defiance--and nothing else." Wouldn't it be sad to spank in that situation, and later learn that the child wasn't feeling well, or was scared about something they couldn't put into words?

I remember the time my middle son, aged 4, refused to walk a single step farther at the San Diego Zoo with us. We had one last thing we wanted to do, and that was to see the new tiger exhibit. Middle son politely declined to go.

He was told that we were all going, it would be great, didn't he want to see the tigers?

Then he refused.

"Come on," we said. "No more of this. We're going to see the tigers, and then we'll go home."

Then he sat down and refused to budge. My husband went to pick him up and carry him.

He burst into tears -- tears of despair and terror.

Suddenly I realized he didn't understand he would be seeing the tigers from a protected and safe distance.

After we explained that to him, he was very happy to go see them.

However, that's age 4 or 5.

At two, they will sometimes just take an oppositional stand -- go out on that limb and, if you let them, they'll start sawing it off. I have watched many an unwise parent allow a mere two year old to do that--entrench himself or herself in a needless oppositional, "defiant" position, leaving the parent with no apparent choice than to overcome the child's will, and reassert their own authority, by spanking.

I learned from my husband the dignified and gracious art of simply refusing to "go there" with a two year old. If you see them heading out on that limb, don't let them go there, don't let them saw it off.

I wrote a blog post about this that you might find helpful
http://katiekind.wordpress.com/2010/...g-of-toddlers/