[purple_kangaroo]

Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy

Who were you talking to? I know it's not me because I've never mentioned BJU in this thread, to my knowledge. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you addressed your post to someone specific, you'd probably be more likely to get an answer. This thread has been all over the place, after all!

I'm pretty sure that you were addressing the post about the QF book author to me though. I'm keeping him on the list with his connection listed that he wrote that book. That's the only connection, to my knowledge, as well, but it's a very influential book in the movement which is why I listed him WITH that as his only connection. I'll specify that it's his only connection and that the book was not published by VF or anything.

Thanks, BarefootBetsy. I see your point, but I'm just not sure that someone should be boycotted or included in a list of folks involved with VF just because they wrote a book that is promoted and used by VF a lot. I mean, God wrote a book that gets quoted and used a lot by all sorts of people to support heresy, but that doesn't mean he agrees with it.

Yes, by requoting myself I just wanted to re-clarify what I was saying about different definitions of partiarchy in the thread in general, but specifically in light of comments made by TestifyToLove,ArmsOfLove and cobluegirl. I think there's a big difference between patriarchy as a broad idea that women and men have different roles or spiritual leadership, vs. The Patriarchy Movement as taught by people like Vision Forum, Patriarch magazine, etc.

I am a little confused about the difference between patriarchal in this broader sense vs. complementarian or any other belief that there is some difference in role or headship between men and women.

I don't at this point in my life necessarily believe that Scripture allows for women to hold the role of pastor, and I do think there is certainly room to believe/argue that the Bible talks about some sort of headship or spiritual authority held by the husband/father in a family, along with the idea of mutual submission of husbands and wives and all believers to each other. I'm not ready to throw out everything I understand the Bible to say about the existence of authority and headship within nations, the church, and families. But I am staunchly against most of what VF and those in the Patriarchy Movement teach. Putting anyone that believes there is any difference in role or responsibility between men and women in any context or any way into that camp as "associated with Vision Forum" seems really unreasonable to me, as that would probably include most of Christendom.

---------- Post added at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 AM ----------

Originally Posted by elcollins

The problem is 'they' have undermined their credibility by involving themselves in things outside of home school defense. You can't be the figure head of an organization like that AND talk and write about things such as Harris does and not have it effect the organization.

I'm not exactly sure of all the specifics or what you're referring to, elcollins, but I don't necessarily think that everyone involved with HSLDA speaks for the whole of the organization in their writings and speaking on their own outside the context of that organization. I expect there are people within the organization who hold very different views from each other on many topics, just as our local homeschool group allows people from very different perspectives to hold membership and be involved in helping put on events.