View Single Post
Old 06-18-2007, 02:19 AM   #8
GCM_Sticky
master maker of stickies
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 654
GCM_Sticky has disabled reputation
Default Re: Collected Past Posts about Cleaning Up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Need help getting past the threats....
Post by: mom2chrisnluke on July 07, 2005, 10:04:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, as I am learning more and more here, I have been able to change alot of my behaviors towards my kids [ages 5 and 2] like yelling and negative intent kind of thoughts. But one thing I seem to have a problem overcoming is the threating. Like " If you don't clean this room you won't get to go swimming" or "If you can't stop yelling at your brother than you will have to go to your room" The problem in the way I deliver the message and the amount I use this type of threats. I just don't have the script to do it differently. I use it to push my kids to do what I want. What can I do differently? I hate feeling threatened and I know they do too. My DH is even worse than I am but not too receptive to me suggesting other things so I try to lead by example. He is more of control by strong arming them with threats. We do not and never have been spankers but my DH does use time out alot and I use it every once in awile but I try to make it more like a comfort corner. I tryed to get DH to understand the comfort corner but after he ready the sticky on it he said it is just time out with another name. He said call it what you want it is still time out and punishment? I didn't even try to hash that one out he is a very good arguer, he would make millions as a lawyer. :P So anyway, I want to work on less threats, Any ideas on other ways to get kids motivated to do what you want with out threating? TIA!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Need help getting past the threats....
Post by: MarynMunchkins on July 07, 2005, 10:27:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, personally, I don't see those things as threats. Maybe rephrasing them so your kids can understand the logic would help though.

"We won't have time to go swimming if you don't clean your room now." or "Yelling isn't ok. You either need to stop or go to your room. You're hurting our ears."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Need help getting past the threats....
Post by: ArmsOfLove on July 07, 2005, 02:21:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It might help to think of it this way . . . if you are threatening then your child is in control.



digest that yet?

It's true--threats are manipulations and we only need to manipulate when we aren't the ones in authority and in charge. But all your child has to do is decide what you're threatening them with isn't worth it, or is worth it, and they don't need to do what you're wanting them to do.

Now, it's one thing to state the facts, "As soon as you clean your room it will be time for X" but it's another thing to try and hold X over his head to get him to clean his room. It needs to be that you have the rule or instruction of cleaning the room and it is done--resistance is futile

If you haven't established this when they were young and now they are older and you're caught in this dynamic, I really believe it's time to bring them in to be part of the solution Have a family meeting--explain to them what you see has happened and how you want things to change. Set some routines/schedules where the things that need to be done are set into a plan for the day and then do them. And have your children participate in setting up some logical consequences for if they don't do what's expected of them. If they set the consequence themselves they will be less resistant to it. Remember, you are a TEAM! You and dh are the coaches and Logical Consequences work as solutions when they are related, relevant, respectful and helpful for preventing the problem in the future!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: hidngplace on September 12, 2005, 11:08:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I saw a similiar thread and not sure this is the same or not.

"All behavior has a real reason behind it. When we learn the reason we can capture the heart." - ArmsOfLove
I read this as I was getting ready to post.
AND
"Because people who feel good act good and people who feel bad act bad it's important to help someone feel good before you address how they're acting." - ArmsOfLove.

My 10 year old and cleaning up after herself and work in general is a constant battle.. I am so lost. This has become a pull my hair out, tears on both ends battle. She can destroy her room in two days. I mean you can't walk in it. She is highly distracted. Which I understand the upside is she is highly imaginative and it is a gift. But I ask her to do or get something and she is distracted by a zillion other things. She won't do work without a fight. Any work.

I have her help in a family project. Her logic " I hate work therefore I shouldn't have to do it"

If I have her work along side of me, so I can guide each step and make sure she is busy. She bawls, gets angry and it is always ends up ," I have a horrible headache, or my legs are killing me." and she will just complain and complain in tears. and I KNOW she is lying. I have tried the "Well, I am sorry you aren't feeling well. I think you need to go to bed for the day so you can rest." Doesn't help. I have tried the consequences of in life if you don't work, you don't get reward or paid. Her sisters get the extra for the work (which I laid out in advance) and she doesn't. She gets upset and pouts, but doesn't do anything long term. I have tried restriction until it is cleaned, I have tried the punitive - probably all of them . I have tried the talk it out, explain everyone contributes in a family to share the load, her sisters have gone to her explaining their frustration that they do all the work and she doesn't. Her sisters have on occasion of their own accord, cleaned her entire room as an act of love, she doesn't care. She immediately goes back to the way it was.

She will wait until I am not looking and flee the room and go play. Usually outside, so I have to hunt for her.

We read together, we play together, she does pretty good in school work. spend time together. I just don't know anymore. I am very frustrated. She at this moment has pile of things in the middle of her bedroom, that we have been trying to get her to clean up for 3 days.

any suggestions?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: Katydid on September 12, 2005, 11:17:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has she been taught *how* to clean up? I know that growing up I didn't really know how to clean up because my mom always did all the cleaning after I was in bed. But I was still expected to. Maybe you could take a few minutes and help her get started or tell her what to do first, ect. Maybe she is just overwhelmed and needs a little motivation to get started! I hope things improve soon!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: Cheyenne on September 12, 2005, 12:25:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't have much advice, because I am dealing with the same thing with my almost 8 yr old son. Your daughter sounds very much like my son even in creativity and responses. to you and I hope people will have some good advice. My son does know how to clean, but he gets overwhelmed very easy too. I was very much like my son when I was younger. I remember what it was like. It was hard breaking down a huge task into small manageable bites. My brain would feel overwhelmed and I would want to escape. Of course cleaning isn't much fun, so add to that how overwhelming it was, and it would cause me to avoid it at all costs. Also, if she is perfectionistic, she may feel unable to do it well enough so rather than not do it right, she doesn't do it at all. Maybe if you can use her creativity to come up with creative solutions to the problem, maybe that will help. I need to try some of those things myself. hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: hidngplace on September 12, 2005, 03:37:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand the breaking into easy parts. I will say " I want you to pick up the trash and throw away." or I want you to put away the dirty clothes. I try to break into pieces. Problem is if she is working with me doing anything, I can point out one thing. Last night, it was take the dishes out of the cabinet and set on the floor. It never happened. That was a small, direct instruction. I sent her to bed for the night. I know that wasn't the best answer to it, but I was very frustrated after a long 3 days with her and figured it was the safest before I said something that would hurt.

She does do better if I say go pick up 3 things. and continue with random numbers until she finishes. This is the most effective thing we do, but it doesn't always work. Hmmm, guess I could combine math with clean up go pick up 3x4 things

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: ArmsOfLove on September 12, 2005, 05:37:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm gonna come at this kind of backwards and I'm not suggesting that *this* is what is going on with your dd, but this is what was going on with me . . . I have fibromyalgia and Aspergers so my body responds to things very differently than the average person. In OT I have had to learn how to do dishes, mop, everything "correctly" because my body gets hurt if I don't hold it correctly with purpose and intention. This means that standing at the sink doing dishes used to truly hurt my body, and sweeping or vacuuming or mopping--hurt, hurt, hurt. So I guess I wouldn't assume she was lying.

that said . . . she actually sounds like a pretty typical 10yo to me Ames and Ilg have a "Your 10 Year Old" that might bring some comfort

And she's got some logic developing so I'd find some great logical consequences that fit Nelson's criteria for "solutions" including having it be: 1) related; 2) respectful; 3) relevant and 4) helpful for preventing the behavior in the future. Ideally they play a role in choosing a consequence. For instance, a child too tired to do housework may need to take a rest rather than go out and play; refusal to help around the house means missing the next outing, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: ArmsOfLove on September 12, 2005, 05:38:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I'd make clean up be a part of the routine and structure of the day--for her room and the rest of the house--and if she is having a hard time with her room then maybe it's time to help her declutter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: jujubnme on September 12, 2005, 08:00:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I was that kid... and sometimes still am. One thing that works pretty well with me is to set a time limit, like 10-15 minutes. Focus fully on cleaning for that amount of time, and then I can move on to something else. It also helps me tremendously to have someone working with me (or alongside me) to help me keep on task. (FWIW, although never officially dx, I am quite sure that I am ADD-Inattentive.... It describes my childhood and adult life to a tee.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: mama2mad on September 12, 2005, 08:41:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm your 10yo, even still sometimes and also have ADD.
The thing that gets me best is to get the kids on the computer so im not tempted with that.
give them 20-30min and just focus myself on getting things done, and i *try* to have that done atleast 2x a day and then one time where we all work together

so i guess my thought is mostly to make sure other distractions aren't (as) available, thoguh i know that can be very difficult :/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: Eowyn on September 12, 2005, 09:05:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also your 10 year old. 13 years later and diagnosed with ADD, I can and do keep a relatively clean house. My issue at ten was that it was just easier to get ahold of anything I needed in my room if it was on the floor where I could see it, or at least know which 4 shirts it was buried under. <g> Good luck.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: hidngplace on September 13, 2005, 10:29:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know, I have thought for awhile that I am ADD, but I have always treated it as a self-discipline issue.

I know Rachel needs to do things a little everyday. I have been working on spending more quality time with her as well. I keep thinking about the above quote o"people who feel good act good ". She will have times when she does much better. I think it is when her love language is being spoken and she feels loved. So I need to focus on that.

I guess I am answering my own questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: mamabeanbean on September 14, 2005, 06:21:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My bub is still tiny, but I've worked with pre-teens a fair amount in situations where they needed to clean up after themselves but didn't want to. The most effective thing I came up with was to say, "Allright, let's see how much (whatever) we can (whatever) in thirty seconds...GO!" I think it helped them to have forseeable endpoint. I know I hate it when I feel like I'll be working forever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: raisa on September 14, 2005, 09:02:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am also your 10 yo dd . . . I am the third in a family of four daughters too! This is what caught my eye about your post. Housecleaning was a huge battle in my family as far as competition, reward, guilt, and punishment between us sisters and with our mother. I still fight these pressures on myself and have trouble with DH about housework because these same feelings come up. I don't know the answer but maybe it would help to look at it from this angle. Sometimes as a middle child I felt like it wasn't worth pursuing the reward because I'd get lost in the "crowd" and it was easier to play the role of the "sick" or whiny one, take the punishment, go off alone while everyone else did something fun, and become more isolated and feel sorry for myself. Not to say that she is "lying" because there could be real pain involved. But in other ways this cycle is familiar to me.

Maybe there are other ways to rethink the "battle" . . . why does her room have to be clean? Can you delegate an area to her and let her keep it the way she wants it? Perhaps remove extra toys/clothes so the mess is manageable until she cleans up what she has? Have more routine like taking dirty clothes to the laundry every morning before breakfast, get rid of garbage before bedtime because we don't sleep in rooms with garbage, put dolls to bed, put away games before taking out another game. Even work on one of these skills each week to break it down into manageable chunks.

One thing I would consider is to stop talking to each sister about what the other ones are doing -- just keep their responsibilities individual for awhile so there is less comparison and peer pressure. And I know you're doing this but to respectfully reflect her feelings -- I understand you don't like to do housework. It is okay to hate it. We would rather do fun things. We do it anyway. Then, think of all the fun things we can do once the room is clean. We can have a picnic on your bedroom floor and it will be your own special party for you to invite your sisters.

And just a guess -- could your own big feelings be overwhelming these situations? My mother would have serious meltdowns about housework, and I felt responsible for her huge anger, it was too much pressure for me, so I'd just give up (sometimes I WOULD try but I was always scared it wouldn't be enough to "make" her "happy"). Being told that "in life you have to work to get paid" was totally overwhelming for me at that age, because I was nowhere near capable of earning my own living and money was too abstract for me. So, maybe rethinking reward/praise/punishment/anger could help unravel this from the big emotional issues for your family.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: I hate work! A lazy child or ????
Post by: hidngplace on September 15, 2005, 08:33:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Then, think of all the fun things we can do once the room is clean. We can have a picnic on your bedroom floor and it will be your own special party for you to invite your sisters.
I like this idea, I think I might try it. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I think she might be a bit overwhelmed and feeling too much pressure. I am going to rethink this. Thanks

GCM_Sticky is offline