Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

http://understan dingcharlotte.blogspot.com/ <--- I came across this blog about Charlotte Mason for younger children and I thought I would mention it

I also found this, the benefits of short lessons: http://www.charlottemasoneducation.c...rtlessons.html

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

For those of you who use Ambleside Online, with reading children.... do you read the weekly readings TO them, or do you have them read them on their own? Or do you perhaps read the suggested readings to them and let them read some of the suggested Free Reading books on their own? Just curious.... (yes I'm looking back at CM because I just can't help but like it but it seems so overwhelming, but we are taking a break from school til probably the end of March, when we are settled in, and I figured that would be a good time to read a little more on the AO website, if I can manage to make sense of it) :haha OK not really. REALLY...I'm still leaning toward sticking with Abeka, and honestly the whole downloading books off the computer thing doesn't appeal to me too much :shrug ( that's why I liked Heart of Wisdom...)

Well, at least I'm learning about various methods and what have you, even if we do just end up sticking with Abeka, for various reasons. :rockon

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Me neither, that's why we're just going to buy them. There is also the library as an option, though with the slow readings you would have to be able to renew them for a full 12 weeks.

If you like Abeka so much why are you looking to change it? Is there something you are looking for? :think

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Great question!! LOL!

Y'know, it isn't so much that I'm "looking to change"--I think it's more that not too long ago (few months maybe?) I stumbled across something (:scratch to remember what it was.... ) that happened to be a "Charlotte Mason approach" book. I wanna say it was something from Peace Hill Press? Or maybe that was Classical learning? Actually I do think it was Classical.. Anyway, since then (cuz whatever it was it really appealed to me) I have just been researching, y'know? Finding out what I can about things, etc. For awhile I thought that the unit study approach would be great for us (we'd still keep Abeka for phonics/reading/language/arithmetic)...but (at least the one I got) it's a big :td I think, for us. BUT I do still like the idea of 'doing units'..so I have lately been coming across things that happen to be CM style stuff, but aren't "full blown" CM--just some units on certain topics. The most recent was Heart of Wisdom,which I REALLY like. I could never use that as a full blown curriculum, and I honestly don't see us using anything besides a Traditional approach for the 3R's... but that appeals to me as a supplement. I am only recently (this week) realizing that.....I always come back to Abeka when comparing other curriculums. Usually it's because I will look at samples of stuff, but will have to go up 1-2 grade levels in other curr's, just to keep up w/where Abeka has them. So then I just keep telling myself "if it ain't broke".....and since I'm not willing to ditch Abeka altogether and go w/something else completely...........looks like we'll be sticking with it. :heart

But I am still interested in HOW (Heart of Wisdom)'s unit studies, since those are small. (And the thing with Ambleside was that I would still have to supplement for the 3R's...........thus pointing me right back to Abeka LOL :crazy )

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

PeaceHill Press is Classical. There are similarities with CM. I found this article helpful. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/charlottemason.html With TWTM you don't have to supplement except for finding a math program that works for your family but if you have something that you like and works for your family :shrug

I really wanted to do Ambleside but my husband was having a tough time grasping how to schedule and implement. He gets TWTM because of how the lessons are laid out. If I'm sick or have to care for my sister or go to a specialist appointment with Bird he can pick up the lessons without confusion. I guess in the end we are kind of picking and choosing to make our own classical education. :think I also wasn't going to argue when he finally spoke up and expressed the desire to really be a part of hsing our children.

I had originally planned to download the books because I wanted to hs as inexpensively as possible but since I don't like to read off the computer I was printing everything. I ended up buying the books we are going to be using.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I actually have a copy of TWTM (not mine- borrowed), and seriously... I did NOT "get" it! That's why I was actually going :scratch when you said your dh didn't get AO, but got TWTM lol I didn't "get" AO either, until I sat down and literally spent HOURS pouring over the site, reading through the FAQs, reading the links provided throughout the FAQs, etc. I now "get it", and actually wrote up a CM-y schedule for us. I don't know if we will follow it though. :giggle There are many things in the CM style that appeal to me. For instance, at first I TOTALLY didn't "get" the idea of reading from 10 different books per term--it made more sense to me to just read one, move along, read another, move along, etc. I spent a lot of time reading through the FAQs and articles there, and now I completely "get" it and wanna do it!! LOL (and was about to type it out but now I can't find it :rolleyes :giggle) Anyway, it included some of the main tenents from CM that I liked, such as journaling, nature walks, copywork, read-alouds from multiple "good" books....

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I have read The Well Trained Mind, and I don't get what you are saying here. They make curriculum suggestions, just like AO. So you should have to supplement for both, or maybe I just don't understand what you are saying.

What is it?

What is the difference between a Traditional approach and a Charlotte Mason approach to the 3 R's? I don't think I know what the Traditional approach entails.... I am imagining busy ever-repeating work and workbooks with a required number of problems you have to do, and desks, but that's probably not what you mean. :shifty

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

"It" was referring to the schedule I made up the other day--you know, the one I can't seem to find now. :giggle

The difference between the Traditional Approach and the CM approach to the 3R's, IMO: Well, what you're imagining a Traditional approach "looks like" *could* be what it looks like. OR, it could look different. There is nothing inherently "Traditional" -in the homeschooling world anyway- about school desks ;) but for some people, they work (for us, they work--everyone has their own space, and the open-front desks we have are a great way for everyone to keep their own books/journals/supplies together in one handy spot). The CM approach says for the 3R's, you do arithmetic, but in 'short lessons'. You do writing, but again in short lessons and also CM approach is more concerned with quality, not quantity. IOW, whereas a Traditional approach might have a 'handwriting assignment' that day, a CM approach would have copywork of some sort, and would rather see a child copy 2 sentences (or 1) perfectly than see a whole paragraph of half-sloppy. The CM approach would also intentionally include journaling, but so do many Traditional approaches. Now, being a little 'outside the box' that I am, I try to stick to the motto that WE rule our homeschool, our homeschool does not rule us. So while we may use my beloved Abeka curriculum, *I* hold the trump card--not Abeka lesson manuals--as to what we're doing that day (and to their credit, the Abeka manuals plainly state that a first year teacher might wanna follow the guide more closely, being 'new' and all, but that a more experienced teacher might just use the manuals as a 'guide', not a must-do). The Abeka assignment may very well be to finish the entire handwriting page, but if I see that my child "gets it" and is writing the letters perfectly, I'm not going to force her to finish the page (though I will say IMO what they ask of K5 isn't much at all--that does change in 1st tho). AFA phonics, I'm not sure there is much of a difference, but I don't really know.

I agree about TWTM though-I read through it (what I could... ) and didn't see it as much more than suggestions. :think

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

We DO NOT download books, either. I purchased everything I thought we needed. Ds is doing year 2 and is a strong reader. We do about 2 or 3 readings each day. Ds will read one or two on his own (usually Child's History of the World, any of the Hollings books, 50 Famous Stories - I added some of these to year 2 because we didn't do year 1 - plus he listens to Burgess at Librivox), as well as his poetry. The more challenging reads (like Shakespeare and Pilgrim's Progress), I read to him. We also add science, composer, and artist living books in there - sometimes he'll read those himself, sometimes we'll read them together. The same with the free reading selections.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

wanna' come back to read this

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

[quote=illinoismommy ]
I have read The Well Trained Mind, and I don't get what you are saying here. They make curriculum suggestions, just like AO. So you should have to supplement for both, or maybe I just don't understand what you are saying.

[quote]

TWTM does make suggestions and allow you to do with it what you wish but it also has lesson books where the how part is laid out for you. The Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading, Language Lessons for the Very Young and Writing with Ease and Story of the World Activity book lay things out for you in a way that Ambleside does not imo. I'm probably not being as clear as I'd like but any additional thoughts to be more clear will have to wait. I need to get out the door to pick Bear up from school.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Ahhh........well, since we are using Story of the World (and it's activity books) with our co-op, I will say, Janice, that it sounds like what she is saying is that the books and things aren't coming FROM TWTM *book* (like I thought she was saying). It sounds like she's calling things like SOTW "TWTM". Is that kinda right??

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

In the first years, I downloaded and printed most of our books because I was able to do that inexpensively. Slowly over the years, I've been able to purchase a book at a time so now I have all the books - Miranda won't have to read from computer print-outs.

I've sometimes put texts on my PDA; that was nice for read-alouds. If I had a student who would read texts from a PDA, I would do more of that. But my sons want "real books."

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I am curious - since you are farther along in your journey than we are - how you handle narrations from your older kids? (written, oral, - a combination?)

Also, do you hand them the reading schedule straight off of the website?

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

We still do mostly oral narrations and a weekly written narration.

I make up daily schedules from the weekly reading schedule that's on the website, and they have their own copy of their daily schedules. My personality likes everything scheduled.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Well, today I started considering using Abeka's DVD program for the older two next year--but was just informed that they may be doing away w/that, an converting to computer! :hunh I sure hope not- now that I finally decided to give the DVD's a try!! LOL Go figure!! :rolleyes

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Just some thoughts on this. I am reading Charlotte Mason's original books and I just finished the 3rd one. The more I read the more I think how much the CMM and unschooling are alike. I am amazed at how much it all makes sense in fact.

Since CMM predates unschooling maybe I should describe it as unschooling being like the CMM. :doh Its like 100(+) years ago she already saw that the kids were under extraordinary pressure and we need to chill out. I shudder to think what she thinks about us today. :lol

The "not unschooling" paragraph on AO says (my paraphrase),

1. When your child has an interest in something you continue reading whatever wonderful classic you are already reading
2. You give them plenty of free time to pursue their new interest.

Most unschoolers who do choose to introduce their children to subjects they would not have otherwise noticed or thought to read about, but a few do not. So I am not sure that is really the difference I would describe. There are important differences though in the goals of a CMM education. I think the most major difference is in the focus of teaching a child to be able to direct their own will (or the subject of self discipline),

There is no such discussion in unschooling, but I love the way CM says that Education the science of relations as well as There is no education but self education. So education really ties into your whole life in a way it doesn't in other forms such as classical, but there is a defined goal of producing people who have discipline in a way I feel is lacking in unschooling (not that some unschooling families don't add that, but it isn't in the 'original text' as it were)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

In the first six years, they would look alike; "a full six years of passive receptive life" is preschool, up to age 6 or 7. But if you were to compare them at third grade, and then at seventh grade, they would look very different. Because, once CM starts "official" lessons, school is very focused, teacher-scheduled, with a pre-planned set of books.

If you look at CM's own curriculum (and I think it's fair and accurate to state that pure CM would be epitomized by how CM did it herself), what she was doing was very far removed from unschooling. These schedules were what she had home-bound students doing as well as her schools. Not to say that someone couldn't combine the two into their own very effective method of relaxed, child-centered learning - but then it wouldn't be purely CM or purely unschooling. It would be positive aspects of both.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Yes that's true, and I think that it surrounds that self-discipline thing. Unschooling says they'll learn it because they are inclined to learn, CM says they should discipline themselves to learn it because self-discipline is a useful life skill.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:tu Yes, and this is what our homeschool looks like. :yes Which is shy I say I'm an "unschooling-leaning relaxed homeschool mama who used AO as a guide."

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Right - and it all boils down to the way you perceive a child's nature. With unschooling (and I'm talking about radical unschooling), there's faith that the child instinctively craves what he needs and, if left alone, will gravitate towards what he needs to learn. CM felt that human nature needed a little more help.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Not purely CM, but has been a helpful website for me:

www.oldfashionededucation.com

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Can anyone tell me how they accomplished reading aloud so much to an older child with a younger around?
DD will be 3 in august and DS is turning 7....he loves to be read to, but DD not so much.

S

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I save some of the read-aloud books with my older son for the afternoon when my younger ones are napping.

For fun read-alouds, we get a lot of books on CD from the Library which my son listens to after homeschool lessons are finished.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Those of you who are using Charlotte Mason could you just give an example of a typical learning day? I'm just getting majorly confused with all the books and then adding in maths, phonics, science etc...

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

For a kindergartener, it looks a lot like unschooling. We read the Bible at breakfast, pull out the storybooks ad lib., do math while we cook, work on birds/trees/directions as I run errands downtown, spend as much time as possible running around in the yard or at the beach or in approved indoor run-around spaces if the weather is bad, practice drawing/scribbling whenever they like, etc. Music and art appreciation consist mostly of having the good music on the radio and putting up art prints, although I sing whenever I get the chance. Language lessons will be ten minutes a few times a week and consist at first of a simple verb game where I read the imperative tense and they do the action. Our first craft will be finger knitting. I don't have a set schedule for any of this except dance class on Saturday, rather a list of what I want to do today that I go down as opportunities present themselves.

Much of the education at this age is focused on learning to pay attention and practicing good habits. The other basics are good ("living") books and lots of time spent outdoors and/or handling real, grown-up things or working models of same. I have found that just letting the kids mess around usually teaches them more than saying, "It's time to learn something," and trying to "do school." Dropping something in casually also seems to be more effective than sending "Stop what you're doing, this is important" signals.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I guess we sort of do that a bit. When we are driving in the car DD and I talk about the signs and what the traffic lights mean, she tells me when they turn green and when they are red.

We also do some phonics I guess, c c cat, d d dog. Yesterday she was saying d d cat, c c shoe :giggle so cute.

I need to get out more, add in some nature, take some walks. We walk to playgroup every week, so we should stop and collect stuff and talk about things on the way.

I guess it's just a matter of me opening up my mind and thinking, how can I make this a bit educational.

We count a lot, and last night DS (2yo) was saying doo, hree, por, pie, even, aih, ni, te, ebeben :heart

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Noticing when kids are very interested in something and offering an interesting tidbit geared to their age level covers a lot of ground for little ones. Sophia's favorite tree is a big cottonwood in the heart of town that has a tiny rowan growing in its fork. We stop by periodically to check on their progress and I also point out things she and Eva might not have noticed on their own, such as the scent of the unfolding cottonwood leaves (I pull a branch down so they can examine it closely) or the way that cottonwoods tend to drop twigs everywhere while other local trees do not. In the process they are learning to observe and learning two of the six trees recommended on the Formidable List of Accomplishments.

Sitting down at the end of the day and thinking, "Well, what did we practice? What did we learn?" can help you track your progress. Sophia helps me make bread; as part of this, she is practicing manual dexterity by filling cups of flour with a spoon and leveling them with a chopstick and doing simple math when I have her track how many cups have gone in vs. how many we need. She is practicing the good habit of cleaning up after herself when she fetches the whisk broom and dustpan and helps clean up the spilled flour. Etc.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:heart

reminding myself to come back to this later when I am not so tired.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I have been spending hours going over the AO website and looking at simplycharlottemason, and I am LOVING her method. I love that the kids learn poetry, music and art. I am starting to understand how it all works.

I just have a question, are there any of you who use the AO site as your sole curriculum? How do you work it?

Those of you who do the charlotte mason method more loosly, how do you work that?

I had been thinking of going with a structured curriculum like ACE, but we don't have a huge amount of money, and we have to pay fees for registrations as well as the books etc. Going with something like AO I am assuming I would be a bit more free to buy things as they are needed and not spend $100's of dollars in one go (or at least try not to).

Is it possible to use AO as your curriculum? I can now see that it covers just about everything you need to learn. Can you use AO alongside of simplycharlotte mason? I have noticed they have set out ideas for bible reading, artists and composers.

And my final big deciding (i guess) question is... how much preperation is needed before lessons if you go by the AO curriculum? Will I have to organise :jawdrop ahead of time lesson plans?

Oh... there is one more question... do you use the books that charlotte method suggests that were written in the 1800's? or find modern versions?

I think that is all for now... :giggle

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

For Year 0, the curriculum is easy to apply and extremely simple; you can drop the lessons in whenever your daily schedule permits. Your biggest expense will probably be language instruction materials if you don't speak a second language already. Living books can be purchased used or read online for free if you don't mind reading off the computer. You may or may not want a reading or writing instruction book depending on how ready your child is to read or do copywork. Much of the recommended "coursework" for this year is best done outdoors, so a nature handbook geared to your area is a good idea. Because the weather is apt to cause hypothermia or frostbite for so much of the year, I also signed Sophia up for ballet on the assumption that anybody that crazy about Angelina Ballerina and tutus might like to do it for real. She had her first recital a few weeks ago and looks forward to taking the classes up again in the fall. This should take care of her large motor skills when the weather allows for going from building to building, but not for hanging out in the park on the way. You may need to do the same, or not.

Curricula for the lower grades are very relaxed, not quite as close to unschooling as "Year 0," but not nearly as structured or busy as public school. I have been told that daily tracking and scheduling become ever more important as you move up the grades. However, a structured lesson plan is not as important as in many other methods of education because you don't have to present things point by point. The student is expected to draw out the points himself or herself by reading the ideas presented in context, hence the long lists of non-textbooks in each year. Because you are expected to critique recitation, though, it's a good idea to have read the selections yourself already! The amount of pre-prep and planning needed for science, math, and foreign languages will depend on the curricula you buy.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

OK I have been reading on the ambleside site Tons of great information. My first concern is - I was reading the sections about learning outside and naturewalks. It seems like the mother has lots of knowledge about the plant parts, species of flowers and trees etc. Is this something you just prepare ahead of time if you don't know all these things?

And if mother is outside with them when is the housework getting done?:) I am really interested in this, just wondering how to make it work for us:)
And do you still do french or I was thinking maybe latin or spanish instead?

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

We've just really started doing nature study last year...I don't have alot of knowledge about nature either. What we do is take pics of things we see on our walk. Using a handbook, or the internet, we try to identify what it is, then study further into it. DD will try to draw pics of what we see, write about it too. We also have been doing gardening to learn about plants and how they grow, etc.... Alot of the learning happens just with observation, and knowing the names of everything you see can come later.

I'm planning on buying The Handbook of Nature Study that AO recommends...

For language study, we won't be doing French. CM originated in England, but you can adapt it to what makes sense for you. We will be studying Latin first, then Spanish. I also will not be emphasizing British history as much, but incorporating some of my own heritage's history, as well as more focus on American history, sticking with CM methods. :)

If you have specific questions, it might be a good idea to start a new thread to get more responses. ;) Hope this helps some!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Also, moms who spend a lot of outdoor time with their kids tend to have less housework . . . because they aren't in the house! :) We just had a month of sunny weather (amazing for Kodiak) and I made it a rule to put sunscreen on everybody in the morning and chase them outdoors as soon as the dew was off the grass. We ate outdoors, read outdoors, drew outdoors, etc., and I did sewing, letter writing, and laundry folding out there. If we had a grill, I could do all the cooking out there in good weather as well.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I follow Charlotte's methods. We use Heart of Dakota curriculum. I also incorporate some Ambleside Online books and definately go there for inspiration. Heart of Dakota is wonderful if you are interested in CM but don't want to plan everything out for yourself. I love it.

I have a homeschool blog. I haven't worked on it in awhile. I took a break from it for the summer. Anyways, if you go there, there is a Charlotte Mason section down on the right hand side bar. I have gathered some links there that may help you to look into Charlotte's approach. There is also a section on nature study, which we love.

Is it ok to post the link to my blog here? I'm new :scratch. I am quite sure I read we could post our personal blogs here but I think I'll go back and double check to be sure.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I love the nature walks with camera idea- seems much easier than hauling lots of indentification books on the walk:)
True about when they are outside having less housework, although you should see that yard outside:)lol They can make a mess anywhere:)
Yes definatly post the link to your blog! I would love to read it. I just bought the charlotte mason companion and so far it is great. I ended up finding a used sonlight set to use this year. Then I am hoping in future years that will give me enough guidance to try it on my own.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I have a question that is totally just curiosity getting the best of me (and I want to get back to this to read more in-depth at a later point in time) ...

... regarding the second language for Charlotte Mason ... can it be American Sign Language? I mean, would that count? I have just started researching the CMM and AO and I have yet to read her writings but that one little question is nagging me for some reason tonight!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I think learning sign language as another language would be awesome! Just think of the opportunites they will have in the future being able to speak to the deaf, or do interpretation, or generally help a hearing impared person at the shops struggling to communicate!! I think thats a great idea!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

really?! :-) I've been signing with my sons since the first one was 7 months old and I've kinda slacked on it thinking they would need to learn another *spoken/written* language instead. It would be great if that would work as the second language because I'm wanting to learn it myself and they're really into the tactile-ness of it. I just didn't know if it would work in with Charlotte Mason's method since I haven't already done the research...

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

We are looking at doing some ASL as well :)