Former Pearl followers?
 

I've noticed there are former Babywisers and former Dobson followers, but I have not noticed any former Pearl followers on this board.

Are there any? :shrug

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I believe they are.

Deanna

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Yep, there definitely are a few. :) I'm sure if you look through the UPP forum with an eye out for that you might notice a few people post to that effect. Is there any particular questions you had or were you just curious? :)

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I suppose I am curious b/c it seems to me that the Pearl books and doctrines are more geared towards teaching people to be part of a seperatist culture. So I was wondering if any Pearl culture followers actually ever managed to get out of that, or even seek resources like GCM to help them, KWIM?

Babywise and Dobson are more mainstream, but it seems to me that Pearl followers get sucked into seperating themselves from any outside source that could pull them out of it. :shrug

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I agree with you. :) So praise God there are some ex-Pearl followers here!

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...hp?topic=232.0

This thread is about which punitive influences affected all of us.

I think the Pearl sub-culture goes deeper than Ezzo's--I didn't realize a lot of what he teaches until I was far past it--and how easy it is to "get out" probably depends a lot of how a person came to be influenced by him to begin with. For example, someone who is immersed in a community of family, friends, church, homeschooling organizations, etc. which are all devout Pearl-ites might be deeply affected by all of his social ideas, marriage advice, theology, and so on. Then there's someone like me, who was just handed the child training books by a casual friend. :shrug I spent a lot of time struggling to accept his teaching before we started to implement it, tried some of it out for a while (though there was aspects I could never quite accept--Thank God!) and I truly believe the extremity of his approach was a catalyst for change in my life--it led me to question my beliefs and seek out other answers.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I hesitate to say I was ever a Pearl follower, because I've never followed anyone very well. :P But my mom gave me TTUAC and suggested that I follow it. I did read it, and implemented it to some extent. :cry

But it didn't take me very long to realize that wasn't what I wanted for my kids, and that I didn't really care how they would turn out as adults if I had to spank them 394763 a day. :td

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I am kind of an ex-Pearl follower...I never really followed Pearl, but I once considered it I'm sorry to say. Our assistant pastor whom I respect very much gave TTUAC to a dear friend, who gave it to me. So it was passed to me from very trusted individuals, and I had honestly never heard of it before. I read it totally objectively, because I had no prior experience. It seemed to make some sense at the time, but it bothered me the way he kept comparing raising a child to animal training! That offended me. When he got to the bit about switching his 5 month old, I decided that wasn't for us. That was just scary. :eek

Interestingly, I read Babywise in the same objective fashion; my sister gave it to me when I was pregnant and I had never heard of it. It immediately struck me as wrong and I never got past the first few chapters. Instinctively, I knew it was wrong. (My sister had never read it. She had just heard about it.) I was reading Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing by Sheila Kippley at the time, and it "sat right" with me (I highly recommend that book!), and Babywise was so contrary to the AP philosophy that I was leaning toward that I was repelled by it. As my midwife so wisely put it, "God's way" of raising a baby/child should be universal; the Babywise method requires baby monitors, a separate room for the baby, a crib, etc. Two-thirds of the world doesn't have access to those eminities! Does that mean they can't raise their baby "God's way"?? please.

Okay, I will stop now. ;)

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Same here! Isn't that weird? I read BW when I was pg, and some about it just turned my stomach and set off all these icky warning bells in my head. I knew right away it wasn't right for me.

I was given TTUAC when ds was about 6 mos, and though I never totally bought into the whole thing, I was more accepting of his ideas than I was of BW. Why? I don't know.. :think Maybe b/c ds was becoming mobile, running away, testing limits, etc. and I was really feeling the pressure to start "disciplining" him? Maybe b/c I believe in some AP stuff like nursing, baby-wearing, and co-sleeping, and Pearl didn't come out against those things so strongly like Ezzo did? Maybe b/c Pearl's disciplinary ideas seemed so "Biblical" wheras Ezzo's teaching about scheduling and micro-managing seemed so arbitrary and unnatural. ?? Maybe b/c Pearl was so doggone specific and addressed every issue I was worried about how to handle? Dobson and others can be pretty vague and leave a lot of holes, IMO. I just don't know.

And the spanking babies was a sticking point for me, too. I just never could get past that. My son was a LOT older when we started experimenting with Pearl. There is no way I EVER would have considered smacking my 3 MONTH OLD baby like he advocates in one example. :hissyfit Other issues I was never at peace with included his all-or-nothing approach (you can't be 99% consistent, or you will fail. 100% consistency is the only option. Well, that's discouraging, cause I'm not perfect, kwim?) and his guilt-tripping.. e.g. If his methods are not working, then you are not doing them "right." If you're not doing things right or if you're having doubts, questioning him, etc. then you are not trusting and obeying God and you need to pray and get past all your own sinful reservations and selfishness. :rolleyes That sort of thing. I hated that. It was very cult-like and I do NOT like guilt and shame tactics. grrrrr... It re-read the book several times, trying to sort through things. It didn't take much time of actually using his methods to uncover the destructive nature of this approach. I regret that we followed even part of his teaching, but I'm glad that things disintegrated so quickly and we became convinced that it was wrong.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

My experience is alot like Palil's....we gave Pearl a shot in our home for a summer. Mainly we were trying to find solutions for our very high needs 3 yo. We nearly damaged him for life, not kidding. He's ok now after years of gentle discipline.

Believe it or not, even after rejecting Pearl's methods (100% rejecting) I have continued to read their writings. I just sorta filtered out their attitudes toward child training because I was very interested in some of their pet topics.

Until this very week. Having read the latest articles on their website I have decided that they are crazy. And as we watch some of our friends try to make themselves over into the Pearls, dh and I are even more concerned :/ .

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Wow, I'm so sorry. :( :hug

Do you really know people who are trying to make themselves over in the Pearl's image? That is frightening. :eek

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Sadie, yes we do :sick

They were both interesting, dynamic and energetic people. They have had personality changes, moved away from very close friends, he's left a beloved career that he worked very hard for, she has dropped former interests and had a major appearance change. They've picked up on Pearl dialect and phrases. They give away Pearl books and unsolicited advice....there's much more but I don't want to explain on a public board :/ .

Our son really is ok. He had an incident recently that alarmed us but we had him evaluated and he's ok. He has Asperger's and ADD, as well as an explosive temper (like his daddy :) ) . A child like that is easily "provoked to wrath"....a possibility that the Pearls seem never to consider.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Palil,
Sounds like we have a lot in common - isn't it weird how the Pearl stuff was easier to accept for us? I am glad there is another out there with a similar experience. :)

From what I have been reading on this topic, it seems more and more to me that the Pearls are like cult leaders. Yikes. :eek

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I just wanted to say that I clearly remember reading this book when I was pregnant with my first baby. It turned a bunch of my parenting paradigms upside down--in a good way. I remember the thing I read immediately previous to the Kippley book was a Parents Magazine article that said that when your baby reached 11 pounds, you could expect him to sleep through the night. I breathed a sigh of relief and figured I could hang on that long. And then the Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing book indicated that night nursing might actually be beneficial! It made so much sense.

sorry for disrupting the topic!

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I am glad you disrupted the topic! It was a good tangent... ;)

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

What size of a following do the Pearls have in the States? Do they have a large sphere of influence? :shrug

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Wonderful tangent. I read that book many moons ago and it did turn conventional thought on its ear.

That babies waking up at night was actually a *good* thing and that nobody *deserved* a good night's sleep. (If you sign up for certain jobs you won't always get a good night's sleep) I remember her equating mothering with the good doctor that gets up at night when a patient needs him.

That book really resonated with me.

I also remember reading pearl's materials a long time ago and some of it made sense (I was very conservative at the time, sort of Mennoniteish) and his earthiness appealed to me but then he got into the testing the toddler telling him to "come" and the toddler goes to the dad and the dad says, "oh, nothing, go back and play" over and over and over again until the toddler ignores the dad and then the dad switches the toddler.

I realized then and there that Michael Pearl had some problems and his advice contradicted many scriptures.

Debra Baker

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

They're fairly big among many crunchy Christians. My midwife offered to get me a copy of TTUAC when I was pregnant with ds. But they're not as well known as, say, Ezzo, and definitely not as well as Dobson.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Really? He does/recommends this? How bizarre!

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Me too. I really liked some of their homeschooling ideas. And I also followed most of his kids getting married and starting their own families. But I have to watch myself. It's too easy for his phrases to stick in my head.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I was 'beginning' to be a Pearl follower....I had the book TTUAC, and I get the newsletter every 3 months, and used to read articles on their website.

I never did finish TTUAC because I just didn't feel totally right with it..but I did use punitive methods then, but nothing like the Pearls teach. :rolleyes

I did enjoy some of the articles at their website, one called "ladies wear white socks" really stick in my mind....and I enjoyed seeing the photo's and stories of Shoshanna's wedding etc....and I like some of the HS articles as well as the herbs etc...some of the marriage articles I really enjoyed as well and was strongly considering getting Debi's book "Created to be His Helpmeet".

I still get that newletter....I'll have to see about cancelling it or something because quite frankly I don't want Michael Pearl in my home at this time. :)

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I did too, until I realized that they didn't actually get *married*! :eek He doesn't believe in marriage licenses, and preaches that all true Christians will one day get divorced and just live together instead :eek

:shrug I've read his newsletters...sometimes I lurk over there to see where my friends/family are coming from. I always leave feeling :mad :sick2 :banghead :hissyfit :bheart :sad2

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

The not getting legally married thing does stand out as weird to me. Especially with all the protection that a marriage certificate offers a couple.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

We were given a copy of TTUAC when DD1 was born. Sadly to say we did buy into some of it :( Our first two children were reared rather punitively for the first 2 and 3 years respectively but praise God we've been able to mend the relationship with years of AP and PD :D

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

What????? :eek Are you serious? Does he mean that someday Christians will have only platonic relationships or that we'll just abadon the whole marriage idea and live together? Is this guy for real? How can he say that and still have credibility with people who read the Bible?

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Forgot to add--I was nursing DD in a corner of the nursery at church this morning--an area that's not used as the nursery but for storage :( (whole separate thread--I want to help this church get family friendly in logistics as well as attitude) and lying in a box of what looked like odds and ends was a copy of TTUAC! I could barely believe it. This church I go to is soooooo far from anything Pearlish that I was so shocked. A bunch of homeschooling parents rent out the rooms in the church during the week and have a high school co-op kind of thing going on, so maybe one of them just dumped it in there and forgot about it, or maybe someone brought it in as an example of what's out there, I duuno. We had to leave early because DD was so hungry, but I mean to ask about it next time. It was so freaky to see it lying there, though in the nursery of all places!!!!

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I think his beef with marriage licenses has to do with his distrust of the government and the current push for the legalization of gay marriages. He advocates a religious/private marriage covenant. Here's a quote:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.ph...se&tt_news=196

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

oh, okay. While I don't agree with him (I don't think getting a marriage license means you support gay marriage) it isn't as wacky as I thought. Still, I don't like the way he puts things. Those "perverts" are unsaved children of God who are no better than we are. We have all fallen short of the glory of God and need Jesus to sanctify us.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

from what i have understood about their view on marriage liscenses they simply don't believe that you must have a marriage liscense from the state to be married in God's eyes. Each of his children has been married by a minister and taken vows to be married for life to ONE woman or man. they don't have a state marriage liscense, however. they absolutely do NOT believe in people living together before marriage. what he is saying is that since many states are allowing homosexual marriage liscenses, Christians should not 'yoke' themselves to the state's perverted marriage liscense(not saying i agree :) just what i understood from his writing on this). that TRUE christian marriage is between one man and one woman and vows taken before God.

love at home momma

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Here is why I can't stant anything he has to say. Unlike say Ezzo who seems to imply if your baby isn't doing X then YOUR doing something wrong . Pearl takes another approach. He seems to talk about how wrong the child is (they sin they are stubborn, manuplutive) or "society is" (perverted goverment, others who stand in "our way") Then once hes planted the "I we stand alone" seed he moves in with for the kill,
I provide the answer this is OUR beliefs so do it MY way. He uses this same tatic in a more violent way to "train a child"

Deanna

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Hey, gay "perverts" also own homes and drive cars. I guess all us good Christians should stop doing that too. :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Dang! My gay cousin breathes too! Well, I wanna be a *good Christian* so here goes....

Where's the turning blue smilie?
;)

I believe in being separate in that there are places I won't go...you won't see me hanging out in the bar on the weekends with my friends who like to party. But I don't believe God requires seclusion and exclusion!

And if the day ever came when getting a marriage license meant signing an affirmation that I believed marriage to be anything other than a "one man- one-woman" union, I could see the argument for not getting one. But for him to advocate that because SanFran let gays get married, I should divorce my dh and just live with him? :shrug There aren't words enough in my vocabulary to describe how dumb that is :rolleyes :lol

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I agree. Besides, not being married in the eyes of the law could open you up to a lot of problems ... what if my DH were in an accident? I would have no legal right to authorize surgery! Or if he died without a will, I would not inherit any assets that were in his name.

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I hope it would not be out of line for me to mention that I kind of need testimonies from former Pearl followers for my website (which is in my sig.) I hate to keep asking, but many people send Pearl followers and potential Pearl followers to my site and I'd like a more impressive bunch of testimonies for them to read. I kind of feel that they must think, "It looks like nobody is ever unhappy enough with Pearl's to give them up." :sad2

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Funny you mentioned that, Linda. It's one of the secret reasons I asked. :(

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I still remember you emailing me, Sarah, and talking with you and your dh. I thought you were both so neat and I'm so glad you're still in my life :)

I am, however, offended that MP feels qualified to tell me what a good and faithful Christian will someday do. So when I don't do that I guess I can imagine what he will think of me :rolleyes

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

I read TTUAC and (among many other reasons :rolleyes) didn't like how he condoned consistently setting up your children for failure. The whole book is basically one incident after another of it, and should be called "To Provoke a Child To Wrath"! :mad

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Exactly, Chelsea.

First, I cannot imagine having such a consistantly negative impression of my child.

Second (and most important) why does he teach parents to violate Scripture (not to provoke a child to wrath) in order to accomplish a goal that is not clearly written in the Bible (absolute obedience and absolute authority with swift punishment)??

Not only does it clearly violate this mandate it violates many related principles that are supposed to characterize Chritianity itself. (Christianity's character being defined as Christ-like)

Whenever I've brought this up to Pearl followers they don't have a response except that I'm being nasty somehow. (I guess because what I'm suggeting following Michael Pearl's teaching implies in their lives, gulp)

Just makes me deeply sad and frustrates the stuffing out of me.

Debra Baker

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

Exactly. We are not "of this world," but we have been called to live "in this world" and, in our comings and goings, spread the Good News of Jesus. Jesus associated Himself with social outcasts of the Jewish community and ate with them. If people living with the burden of homosexuality don't see/experience the love of Jesus from us, how will they ever know that Jesus loves them? By reading bumper stickers and billboards? I doubt it . . .

Re: Former Pearl followers?
 

In addition to provoking your children to wrath, setting them up for failure is much worse than that. In the Bible, the times I've read of someone being "set up to fail"...it was never God who was setting them up. It was another "individual" that I won't mention. :sick Take for example Job, or Jesus in the wilderness...God was never the one doing the "setting up". I just don't understand how this can be thought of as something God would want us to do to our children! Whose example are we actually following if we practice those kind of teachings?! :bheart