Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

If somebody called your hyperemesis a sin I would feel the same way. It is a lie. a false teaching. Absolutely reprehensible and worthy of rebuke. It is far more than just insensitivity, it is a LIE that my infertility is a result of sin. It is a FALSE TEACHING. We are to run from false teachers, not just spit out their false teachings.

Yes, the adoption story was sweet, and could have been a miracle. But several sweet nice stories about adoption do NOT change what she says about adoption on the flip side. You can't erase the false teachings with nice stories, you just can't separate them. There is a difference between bad theology and false teachings, and I believe firmly that Nancy Campbell falls into both.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

:jawdropooooh... bleh...
he really just said that spanking isn't hitting.... :headscratch

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Re: hg and infertility being labelled 'sin'.

I suppose IME EVERYONE has false teachings. I have been to a place where I have been so disillusioned with Christianity, the only thing that has kept me going in Jesus himself. I completely understand your feelings, and admire your confidence and conviction in who you are in Christ :-D

I have been told I was not healed because I didn't have faith. That maybe it was all in my mind, and have had ppl look at me suspiciously implying it may be that I need deliverance, and have had various people suggest I try deliverance ministry.

So yeah, completely understand your desire to go YUCK! And to tell you the truth, I constantly put myself in situations where I am vulnerable because of the 'some truths' that I might glean there. Just this last week I commented on a christian forum about spanking and got attacked about my stance. This has left me positively confused about what I believe in.

It is so hard when someone says so many good things, but so many bad things it can be hard to decipher which is which. But I feel like I have no choice, in Christianity it can be a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to choosing which teachings you listen to.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

I'm sure this is going to end up being a "Duh!" moment, but I can't figure out what 'WOS' stands for. :question

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Wife Only Submission :)

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Ahhh....thanks! (And it didn't end up being a "duh" moment after all! ;))

So is that as opposed to wives and husbands being *mutually* submissive? (I've never heard the term WOS before this thread.)

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Yes and no. I believe we are to be in mutual submission, but that isnt the whole picture. Two people can be in submission to each other and in agreement, but still not necessarily doing what God wants. We are ultimately both to be in submission to God and he will not lead a husband and a wife to disagree.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

:sick

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Yes, we all have false doctrine that we all subscribe to. We might be wrong on this bit of theology, or that bit of theology and we might share that false doctrine with others in a teaching capacity. Having a few things that are false teachings and false doctrines are not the things that make you a false teacher. I know women on this board who I respect in an amazing way in the theological arena who have probably held doctrine that is not exactly what God means with scripture and have taught that. It does not mean they are false teachers.

False teachers often have ministries that are lovely. But what makes a false teacher is not one or two off things, but rather dozens and dozens that are the pillars of their ministry. Nobody can deny that Nancy Campbell focuses a HUGE amount of her ministry to wife only submission. And not any moderated form, but rather the type that would make women follow their husband into sin if he asked her to. That is a huge false teaching that is foundational to her ministry. Nobody can deny that adoption is a huge part of her ministry, but her views on adoption are in opposition to scripture. Nobody can deny that a huge part of her ministry is natural living and childbirth, but at the same time she has a warped twisted view of women who have had cancer and had histochemistry or who are infertile as completely sinful. She believes in natural gentle raising of children, but also believes in spanking them if they don't obey the first time and that depravity is to be spanked away.

Nancy Campbell becomes a false teacher when you can take almost any core concept of her ministry and find false doctrine there. With false teachers it becomes incredibly dangerous to glean the "positive" from their ministries. While there may be beautiful stories that are the epitomize of Jesus's heart, the overall message under those beautiful stories are false. So those beautiful stories lure you in, and then from there you get to the dark underbelly.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Thankyou boobymummy - that story was written by Patty Anglin,of Acres of Hope.Anyone here can read their book by the same name.She is the woman I heard that spoke at the adoption info meeting I attended at the Campbells church when we were in that area.It was a beautiful and true miracle story.IME the Campbells dds dont share all of the same views as I keep hearing the Campbells have and it just doesnt feel right to have it all lumped together and assume that anything associated with them is all wrong or yuck.some people really are convicted by God about being open to His blessings and that maybe they jumped the gun and didnt pray for His guidance when they did something permanent about birth control.It doesnt mean to me that it should then become a doctrine for all people to follow or a mandate to have as many kids as you possibly can.But then it doesnt seem right that people that have been convicted in this area should all be lumped together and kind of sneered at with others who might practice or believe in doctrines that they have nothing to do with - kwim? I want to have grace for others,no matter where they are,because I need it so much myself.It kind of struck me when someone made a comment about maybe inviting Anna D. here that so many negative comments have been made about them that she wouldnt want to come.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Thanks erin, i have been really struggling with this, as they present such a perfect idealistic front.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Thankyou also Erin.AR is not something I would personally endorse, that is for sure, I think it was just the lumping everything together part that bothered me........

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

:yes2

They really do. That is the part that is really sad to me. However I've learned that if a ministry is to "perfect" there is quite possibly something sinister there too

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

:haha :roll :haha

I'm sorry, I wasn't going to comment on this thread again, too much opinion being thrown around. Yes, they are punitive, yes, they are wife submission, I already said that, but this just cracks me up as someone who knows the Campbell family.....

"perfect" :roll

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

I wasnt going to keep commenting either and cant speak for nancy Campbell because I have only just met her one time (at the adoptino info meeting we attended where I knew nothing about ARs or their church doctrine)but most anyone I know here would love to spend an afternoon with the 2 dds I personally know.One time we spent a Sunday afternoon in a park sitting on blankets with babies nursing or crawling around on the grass and kids playing and the adults playing various kinds of instruments like guitars and hand drums and doing impromptu worship music and handing out healthy snacks to the kids (except when the ice cream man drove thru and everyone had a snow-cone :) ) we were there for many hours and nobodys child was spanked or taken to a car to be spanked - like some of the fams I know who were involved with Pearl stuff for awhile would do.I didnt know anything about Gothard at the time but did know about some Pearl & Ezzo stuff and didnt see any of that kind of stuff.I dont subscribe to AR or get their newsletters and wouldnt want to.I went to a parenting class one Wednesday evening at the church where the one dd attends and spanking wasnt even mentioned or hinted at as a tool.The guy teaching this class wasnt using any kind of book or formula - just some suggestions from his parenting experiences,some I agreed with,some I thought were interesting,some I wouldnt personally use.