Charlotte Mason?
 

I want to unschool mostly, with using a bit of Montessori techniques. But I've heard a lot about Charlotte Mason and I'd love to hear more. Does she have a website? Please tell me the pros/cons and your experiences! Thanks!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:giggle You're so cute.

She's from way back in the day, so there were definitely no websites then. :lol

I really like Montessori as well, so some of our home environment is influenced that way. I am reading the original 6 Charlotte Mason books and I feel there is a lot of Truth there so we will be using that as well. As far as pre-6 years old, its very unschooly ....

there is www.amblesideonline.org ... that is a website that has a lot of stuff on Charlotte Mason, but it can be a little difficult to navigate

*edit to clarify

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

another good one is simplycharlottemason.com but a google search will turn up a wealth of resources! :tu

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

That website is good except for the milk with lemonade thing. :/ She really could have let her try and not "made her finish it to teach her something." :rolleyes When you MAKE them finish it, it is no longer a natural consequence, it is imposed.

So yes, please check that out, but be warned!

*edit to clarify

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Here's what I saw when I watched my friends use Charlotte Mason methods.

Friend #1:
3 kids, age 4 (down syndrome girl), age 6 (boy), age 8 (girl)

Friend #2:
2 kids, age 3 (down syndrome boy), age 5 (girl)

Friend #1 was ULTRA organized, had charts made out with books to check off when read, following the Ambleside online program to a T for her older two. She collected books from the library and also scoured used book sales as well as online sales. Her kids were also outside about 4-6 hours of the day. They lived on a small acreage with chickens and a garden. The kids helped plant, weed and harvest the garden, then taking the food to the kitchen, washing it and eating it often in the same day. They collected eggs and sold them. Their property had a clothesline on it and the kids helped with laundry, hanging it outside and learning household stuff in that way. But their chores lasted less than 1-2 hours a day and the rest of the time was pure play and exploring. They had small animals inside, like a hermit crab, fish, etc and they had a keen interest in teaching other kids and adults about their animals. More than once, they would bring one of the small animals to our playgroup and give a little presentation on the animal, unprompted and unsolicited by their mother.

Friend #2 was a very relaxed Charlotte Mason believer that also was a huge supporter of the idea of unschooling. Her daughter spent most of her time outside, on walks with mother and brother, collecting leaves to paste in books, recording dates on the huge time line that stretched around their dining room, and listening to her mother read the books listed on ambleside online.

Both sets of kids are the type that I am striving to raise. They were all innately responsible and loving and gentle with the youngers. They were interested in the adult conversation but just as good at spending time in elaborate play with many imagined props and ideas. There were times that us ladies were treated to "tea" (Friend #2 was British) complete with invisible rose-painted teacups, earl grey tea with a bit of cream, orange-cranberry scones and service by a maitre' d (played happily by the boy).

I had an excellent introduction to Charlotte Mason in this way. As I watched/listened further, this is what I personally take from a Charlotte Mason education.

Kids are STRETCHED beyond their current level of understanding. To read abridged books, simplified text, things that come down to the child's level do not STRETCH the child higher. Instead of meeting children where they are at, it challenges them to reach and understand the level higher than that. If you believe that your child doesn't "get" things, try giving them the benefit of the doubt and read them Dr. Doolittle, original version. We read that to Cameron at 15 months and he still remembers the characters, even if he doesn't remember the text. After reading and pushing his literature comprehension, we find him at a much higher verbal level than most kids his age. I don't know how much of this is personality because he's our first, but we look forward to seeing how this repeats with Elijah.

Charlotte Mason also relies on recitation, poetry/scripture memorization and copy work to improve language skills. I support these things to a degree, without being pushy or obnoxious about it. We are incorporating memorization in our daily without making it "school" for Cameron, just simple things.

I like that Charlotte Mason gives a non-traditional Christian educational view of how to facilitate children learning.

I like the webpages: http://www.amblesideonline.org/New.shtml and http://www.amblesideonline.org/FAQ.shtml although I do think that in the FAQs I think that the author slightly talks down unschooling and that it doesn't mesh with Charlotte Mason. I really believe the two are so incredibly similar if you give them each a bit of flexibility. Innately, a child that is outside a lot, will reach in the ways that Charlotte Mason describes while still being somewhat delight driven. A Charlotte Mason framework can give a structure to an unschooling child's life without overwhelming them with workbooks and published textbooks, putting them in a grade.

I probably have more to say but for now, this is where I will stop.

Oh, I also want to introduce you to this list as we have it printed on our fridge and are working on each of the points:
Jen D.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I agree! Excellent and informative post! :)

I did want to note though that I think the list of attainments is for an older 6, so near to 7. Is that right? Sooo... we aren't worried about it yet. :O

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

bbl but thank you!!!!!!!!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Yes... :yes Awesome post Jen!!

:cup

bbl

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

oops! I hadn't looked at her site thoroughly enough to know that! Thanks Janet!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:yes I was going to add this also

Thanks Jen!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

A pure CM education and a totally unschooling education are two different things, although on the surface, they can look similar. They can mesh well - but they are different at the foundation. A relaxed approach to CM will look more like unschooling, and a more scheduled approach will look more classical. But a pure CM education as CM intended will look like CM's schools.

("The author" . . . that would be me -- does it really sound like I'm talking down unschooling? I tried to find and include links to unschooling that didn't misrepresent the definition of unschooling, and I think highly enough of unschooling that I wouldn't have wanted to talk it down. CM is so often confused with unschooling and delight-directed that I was trying to draw a distinction between them by defining the differences . . .)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Charlotte Mason wrote about her method and the texts are free on the ambleside. :)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:cup This is a great post. It sounds like much of what we do already. Off to check out those links.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Leslie, I'm coming back to this because I hope I didn't offend you and want to further clarify.

I firmly believe that, in unschooling, there is facilitating in the way that Charlotte Mason would agree with. Exposure is absolutely key in both types of schooling. With Charlotte Mason, there is more of a framework. With unschooling, I feel that as parents allowing to our children to have this type of learning environment, we still have responsibility to provide variety and require our children and ourselves to grow beyond our knowledge. Using the books and readings that amblesideonline lists, is a way to GIVE our children the idea of wings. Allowing them to fly beyond that is where the two schooling worlds separate and further personal-interest study can either be schooling (as per unschooling) or free-time pursuit (as per Charlotte Mason).

With the Charlotte Mason model of nature appreciation for children, many of the early activities DO become delight-driven/unschooled and promote a love that can later be structured, if needed, or left, depending on the personality of the child. For instance, on a nature walk with my three year old, I show him oak tree leaves and lichen. He seems uninterested. The next day, while out on a walk, he begins his exploration with, "Will we see leaves?" I tell him we will. "Will they be oak leaves?" I tell him that we will see some oak leaves. He picks up an oak leaf and names it. Then picks up another leaf, not an oak leaf. "What's this one?" "I don't know. Shall we find out?" "Yes." So we take the leaf home and look in our identifying book and learn the name.

I'm not a believer in a pure radical unschooling model because I do feel that children need some sort of established structure, something that helps them bend to a direction they would not naturally travel without guidance. I see a direct link between parents who lack self-discipline having children who lack self-discipline. I also see parents who have self-discipline with kids that do NOT. I believe the latter example is where a failure to communicate and address this absence of self-discipline occurs. I think the Charlotte Mason model comes into play to prevent such a problem by way of making things such as poetry a part of daily life to foster appreciation, encouraging fluency in another language to expose children to cultures they may not otherwise pursue or even be aware of, etc.

I really hope this is making sense. I keep re-reading it and thinking it might be a little abstract :/

Leslie, to answer your question, I find that radical unschooling (where children have no guidance or imposition of self-discipline in study) and simple unschooling (when children are both delight driven and intentionally exposed to encourage further study as well as consciously guided through the things that they not pick up naturally) often get lumped into a box together. I find them distinctly different. The division of time that you mention several times in your paragraph as far as the specific activities one uses as "school" time versus "free time" is what made me say what I said. My view of schooling is that LIFE is school, not just the interests of my child at the moment, but both the simple unobstructive guidance I provide towards certain subjects and the time I allow a child to wander and explore on their own. I don't divide the time up into "school" and "no school" time frames AND I don't label what we do during the day as "school" even though some might think it is. It is somewhat delight-driven, somewhat unfocused, but still facilitated towards many of the ideals of Charlotte Mason as stated on ambleside.

Maybe a better term for what I do is "eclectic" if it has to be labeled. I consider it unschooling but maybe others wouldn't.

And, I believe that location has much to do with how one perceives/records "schooltime" as well. I look forward to moving out of California because of the homeschooling laws but I have yet to study some of the states we've considered. In Nebraska, where I was introduced to the two homeschool families, there are very relaxed laws and neither family was doing much in the way of submitting records for approval of their program.

Again, Leslie, maybe my words are wrong, but my intent is warm and I hold a deep amount of respect for the work done on Ambleside. I am grateful to my friends for introducing me to the idea of bringing this type of structure into my children's learning environment.

Jen D.

PS: YES, my oldest child is a 3 year old and I may be beyond naive since I haven't been through it yet. Over the last 4 years, I have held a keen interest in child psychology, schooling and learning styles. I am also the child of two generations of teachers on both sides of my family and have observed student/teacher interactions with interest since I was young.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Hummus Dip,

With the recent post about your husband's struggle with the idea of homeschooling, presenting him with some of the Ambleside Online information as a loose structure for your plans might be what he needs to feel more at peace. Being that the AO schedule is rather firm, you can possibly suggest using some of the assignments from AO as well as incorporating unschooling/delight-driven/eclectic into your program. Just a thought to put out there, in case that idea will bring him over to....the DARK SIDE of us crazy homeschoolers :haha

:heart

Jen D.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Yes, I believe so also, but again, giving the benefit of the doubt, I am incorporating them into our daily life as well.

At this point, we are memorizing simple songs/poems like, "Run, run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man." or the patty-cake patty-cake song that Cameron sings with Elijah, changing the verses each time he sings it, trying to make someone in the house laugh. We're setting the bricks for recitation and memorization.

Cameron has learned which side of the house the sun will set and where the moon can be found. He often will comment on the "pretty" sunsets and squeals at the sight of the moon when we're out and about. He gets his left and right most of the time, but seems to have regressed in the last few months, not sure if he's playing with us or if it's the 3 yr old thing.

We have been working on some wildflowers/garden flowers. Poppies, marigolds, roses and irises are among the plants he recognizes and can name out loud.

This summer, we talked about woodpeckers and then looked in DH's ID book to see what kind lived around here. When the woodpecker is up in the trees pecking, Cameron often will mention it and look for it in the tree.

At this age, I don't expect that I will get an answer when I ask questions about this stuff. It depends on his mood. I find that if I don't mention it and he sees something he knows a bit about, he'll bring it up. I wouldn't expect more of him than what I listed above and even that is inconsistent knowledge.

Funny enough, the last two days, I've really come to respect the idea of stretching a child upward, spiritually, emotionally, and knowledgeably without expecting consistency from them at the higher level. Believing that they "get it", giving them the benefit of the doubt, encourages me to think that their level of absorption is higher than we all might expect.

Oh boy, I'm talking a lot tonight. I'm going to keep my mouth quiet now. Hopefully I won't be having to put my foot in it. :nails

Jen D.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Jen, you are so wise. I'm sucking this up like a sponge. Please, keep talking. :cup

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I'm having a good day but I should probably stop because I couldn't remember how to spell "absorption" and had to google it and then didn't believe it so I grabbed a dictionary and lo and behold, it doesn't have two "b"s :crazy

Jen D.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:spit Don't you know I'm the worst speller ever??? You could spell my name wrong and I probably wouldn't notice. :bag

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

That is similar to what I did with Bart. He was and honestly still is hesitant about us homeschooling. However, having things laid out in front of him and seeing it in a traditional school format has helped him understand that while it may look like we are reading and playing outside all day there is a purpose and we are learning and learning things that have a place in our family culture.

Also, we are loosely working through year 0 books right now with JJ and he is seeing results from it which has also helped. Funny bit is after a quick overview of AO his response was "Huh, you've been doing this since Tori was 3 and didn't know it." :heart

I plan on being loosely structured. My oldest needs it. She would prefer a strict schedule but a part of me dies a little inside when I have to stick to a strict schedule. I want to be able to explore topics deeper when and if our children express an interest. That freedom is important to me.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

This is what I think too, and self discipline is one of the reasons why every book I read on unschooling left me. :/ But thats JMO.

And come on, most of the quotes in my signature these days are very unschooly of her. ;)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Jen, I'm an INTJ: it's pretty difficult to offend me. ;) But I am a stickler for accuracy, and if my definition of unschooling is incorrect, of course, I'd want to fix that on the website.

I know what you mean - that's why I could never be a pure radical unschooler. I'm too undisciplined. Yet there are aspects of it that I still use.

I think the label is probably the problem. Most people seem to be an eclectic combination of two different approaches. That can present a problem when trying to explain to someone the differences between CM and other approaches - there's so much overlap in the way people actually homeschool in their own home. One of AO's goals is to sort out the differences in pure definitions, more for the sake of clarification than to tell people how they should homeschool.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Thanks for understanding, Leslie.

I was so profoundly impressed by the amblesideonline work my friends were doing, it stuck with me and is something I've been looking forward to using to some degree with my sons.

I also am adamant that if I, as a child, would have been allowed to go at the rapid pace I wanted for the stuff I was interested in (reading, spelling, music, handwriting, etc) and go as slow as I needed for the hard stuff (math, science), I would have been a much better learner and would have understood more.

Jen D.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Alyx also loves the moon and MUST show everyone when he see's it! As well as the sunsets... "Look at the beautiful clouds Mama!!!!!" (When they are orange and purple)

We also teach him simple songs/poems like you described. But his memory is so good, he memorizes things after hearing them once...so he knows many things by memory.

Also, we just moved and this place has a larger window box for plants. I plan to find some things for us to plant and take care of in there as well! :tu

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I use a lot of Ambleside Online's stuff, as well as Simply Charlotte Mason.
I'm suprised to hear some thought she was punitive, becuase I've heard her speak and I've been through her blog a zillion times and nothing's ever sent up my red flags! She usually very gentle, esp. with her autistic child.
I also use Heart of Dakota for my youngers, which is charlotte mason based. :-)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

http://simplych arlottemason.com/2008/11/05/natural-consequences/

"....Second, it takes a long time to force down a glass of lemonade mixed with milk."

The rest of that post will explain but this is what I will say. If my child mixed lemonade with milk and tried it because I said that would be okay, so be it. What is the point in making them finish it? :shrug

Ewwwwwwww

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Amblesideonline is free? :jawdrop Wow, I really like what I have read so far. I am thinking of using this more as a mixed method with some Montessori type things too.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:yes :rockon Hard to navigate though. But worth it.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

:hugheart what do you find difficult about it?

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I've also found it very informative yet difficult to navigate. I'm still finding answers to my questions when I thought I already looked at that page. :shrug That my simply be a result of the amount of information they provide.

What I find somewhat difficult and it may just be how my mind processes and an aesthetic things is a Book list should be a list with bullets etc. The spacing is tight and for the amount of infor spreading out the spacing and changing up the text a bit would help break up the awesomely helpful info. Again that may just be more or it could just be that I'm not used to finding info on there just yet. :shrug

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Agreed.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I recommend reading A Charlotte Mason Education by Karen Andreola (available at most libraries). It is a GREAT foundational homeschooling book!

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I like Andreola's book, but also recommend "Educating the Wholehearted Child" by Clay and Sally Clarkson. It helps flesh out some CM techniques and concepts in a really reader friendly way.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Yes, both of those books are great. We read and discussed each of those in our homeschool group.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

We like CM too! :smile Right now we are using a Living books approach but with Sonlight. We are using two cores and we love it. It helps to have a direction, so Sonlight takes the planning and guess work out of it right now.

I loved the book A Pocketful of Pinecones by Karen Andreola, it's a work of fiction but it sort of "teaches" you the nature dimension of CM, in an easy read, living books way! I highly recommend it. But I read all about CM methods for free online, by reading articles at Penny Gardner's site, and Catherine Levinson's site.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I had a harder time with Karen Andreola's and Catherine Levinson's books. Andreola's has a lot of great ideas, but I found getting through her book harder than reading Charlotte herself but I think that is mostly me, because most people seem to find it very helpful. I do think she adds in a lot of her own thoughts so it is not solely CM (I should add I don't attempt to do school completely CM style, but just putting that out there :) ).

The thing that helped most for me is to read Volume 1 of Home Education by CM. You can read it free on AO.

Children who Love to Learn is also very good. It spelled out a couple of things for me that I didn't get fully before-- how to do narrations, how to do picture study, and what it really looks like.

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

I love For The Children's Sake as an introduction to Charlotte Mason.... and The Charlotte Mason Companion for some more ideas on how its done...

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Me too. I like to read it during the summer just to "refresh my vision". Something so inspiring about those Schaeffers.(sp?)

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

Made this a sticky. :) :heart

Re: Charlotte Mason?
 

YAY, a sticky

:hiding

Jen D.