First-Time Obedience?
 

I do not want to ask for first-time obedience, but, I hate asking multiple times and being ignored. Or course, for a lot of things, I know I expect too much. But, okay, for nursing, E always asks for a sip after unlatching. I will ask her to unlatch. I am feeling very touched out and have to restrain myself from throwing her off my lap. In this instance, I go ragey in about 1 second. I want her to unlatch the first time she's asked. I've told her she gets a sip if she unlatches, but she will not unlatch and then she asks for a sip, and I am just thoroughly done.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

What's wrong with first-time obedience? We are struggling a lot with DS 2.75 and I am totally at my wits end with having to ask over and over again and he decides to do it 'whenever he wants'. I do want first-time obedience because I feel totally walked all over when I just follow him around and keep asking the same thing.

I'm new to GBD and am totally at a loss as to how to deal with a lot of situations. I know what I don't want to do but I can't find things that do work.

Sorry I don't have much advice, but I'm interested to hear thoughts from others on your situation!

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

To the OP - I would think that maybe you might need to rethink your nursing boundaries if this is becoming such an issue for you. I know when I had those intense feelings while tandem nursing, it was time for something to change :hug

You can help her unlatch and get down if you feel that's what you need to do.

For 2Cor1:8-10, we have some threads in this forum on first time obedience that might be helpful for you to search. I'll pop back later to see if I can find some. I find that with children your child's age, setting them up to comply goes a long way to helping (for them, and for me). Making sure I have their attention when I'm speaking to them, getting on their level or touching them while speaking. When I feel like I'm being walked all over, it's often because my expectations aren't quite accurate, or I'm not being clear enough for my children to follow.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

Thanks Kristin. Those other threads are helpful. I don't want to take over this post. I have a lot to learn, yikes.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

I'm tandem-nursing my 2nd and 3rd children (as I did with my 1st and 2nd as well) and I know that feeling of needing to stop nursing IMMEDIATELY all too well. Oddly enough I've only felt it with my older tandem-nursing child... never with the new baby.

Anyhow, I keep a finger close to my dd's mouth and if she doesn't unlatch herself at the count of three, then I unlatch her. I began counting to three with the soon-to-be-older sibling during my pregnancies because I also had that MUST STOP NURSING NOW feeling during those. They usually figure it out quickly, they have some warning, and if they don't stop nursing, I break the suction with my finger and put the "naynay" away. If this upsets her then I comfort her by hugging and talking to her or reading a favorite book.

I hope you're able to find something that works for you! :hug2

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

Could someone posts links to those threads please? Thanks!

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

First-time Obedience comes out of Ezzo's teachings, and in parents I know, they do it because "if the kids the first time they'll obey when you yell get out of the road."

It also seems like to me it's a very, "Jump when I say jump, and ask how high on the way up." mindset.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

I think though, that in some instances, first time obedience is an important part of respect. ie: we show respect for others bodies by honoring their requests immediately. I have told Maximus that even though Mommy's boobies are used for nursing, they are still momma's private parts, and I may hide them if I need to.

I think there's a fine line we mommas walk, especially while nursing a walking talking baby, between nurturing breasts and breasts as public property. I am in NO way saying they are when we nurse an older baby, just that its easy to err on the side of not creating boundaries because they are such a powerful nurturing 'tool'.

If you want her to be able to set boundaries on her person that she expects others to honor immediately, you model them for her by creating some for your own person. :)

First time obedience for other things.... potential for volumes of discussion there! :giggle

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

Obedience is a choice. Choosing to obey the first time is something I would love my children to do. However, it is NOT developmentally appropriate. In order to truly choose to obey, there must be understanding (thanks to Crystal for that bit of truth!) and a 2 year old just is not able to comprehend the why's of a lot of things.

I do think though, that you words should mean something. So if your limit is count to three and then she needs to unlatch, you have to help her make it happen. Most 2 year olds will not willingly give up the nursies after all, it's what they have come to know as love and comfort and a band aid! It IS your body though, and it's healthy for you to set boundaries and stick to them. This is not a matter of first time obedience, because honestly, on this matter, she can not obey right away yet. She lacks the understanding of why you feel differently about nursing her now, and why you need her off right now. I went through this with dd1, and it was very very hard. I know she felt my discomfort, and in turn, would seek to comfort herself at the breast, so it was a never ending circle. I did set boundaries and stuck to them, and it helped a lot. I didn't want to end up weaning on a bad note, with me totally touched out and frustrated. It wouldn't have been fair to dd. So I set some boundaries we could both live with and it went much smoother. HTH some, I totally feel your pain and frustration.:hugheart

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

2Cor1:8-10, have you checked out the GOYB parenting site yet? I think it's linked in the GD forum, but if not, here it is:
http://goybparenting.com/

The general idea is that we are on our feet when our children are small, showing them that words mean actions. Take a look at Crystal's explanation of the "Five Step" process as well. First Time Obedience, as it's taught generally by non-GBD parents (or just non-gentle parents in general) is arbitrary, punitive, and is training rather than teaching.

I have a 2.75 year old, as well! This is truly an age where it's time for the feet to hit the floor, if they haven't already. Gianna has certainly been displaying this quite a bit lately:
"Gianna, the dog's knotted rope is not for your mouth- let go." <Gianna grins mischievously and shakes the grotty dog toy, which has been outside all winter, in her mouth.>
Now, I could do one of a few things here.
- I could go the begging/cajoling/talking her to death route, which teaches her nothing outside of, "Mom's words mean nada," and she doesn't follow through with the action. That looks like: "Come on! Get it out! Now! Drop it! Do it now! Gianna, that's yucky- that's for the dog. Get it out of your mouth! Now!" and so forth.
- I could demand First Time Obedience- "Let it go NOW." And then follow the command, when she hasn't jumped to right away, with a punitive action. This probably will eventually train her to do exactly what I say, when I say it, but she not only will learn absolutely nothing, but she will learn a harmful precedent that she's not allowed to think about and evaluate what she is being told. I may as well have built a robot than had a child. :sick
- I could Get Off My Butt and actively parent. This does many things- it shows her what needs to be done, and how to do it. It shows her that Mom's words do mean to follow it up with an action. It gets the job done, in other words, the goal of getting a disgusting dog toy out of her mouth is accomplished. So:
"Gianna, the dog's knotted rope is not for your mouth- let go."
<Gianna grins mischievously and shakes the grotty dog toy, which has been outside all winter, in her mouth.>
I am already near her, and I get down to where she is. I've allowed five or so seconds, so that I know there has been enough time for her ear to hear the request, and her brain to process what it means. This is very key- small kids cannot CANNOT just process the words as they leave the adult's mouth. I hold the toy, and repeat the request: "This isn't safe. Take it out. Do you need help, or can you do it?" In this case, she just did it. If I were to help her, the help is NOT supposed to be a punishment. Crystal outlines in her "Five Steps" thread about how and why. And then, the issue is over.

:O Sorry OP, I get chatty. I agree that breastfeeding is its own set of boundaries. When it deals with your own body, truly, it's time for lots of talk about "If...then..." and then for sure, find a way to unlatch her comfortably. :hug2

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

Thank you! It's not just about nursing, that's just the one that happens the most often. And E will be 3 in 2 months. I do have a thread I bumped up in BFing about that, but I'm having a hard time just GOMB. :P

And I am realizing I 'say' waaaaay to much to her and don't 'do' enough with her.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

I had a hard time right around 3 too...and I think it was because prior, she was really still a baby (although now I'm trying to see children as babies until 5, ala Crystal) and by three, I felt like she SHOULD know and be able to do what I was asking of her. I don't know, she just looked so much bigger then too. With a younger baby, I would say things a few times, simply because it takes a few times to 'get it' for them, but at 3 all of a sudden, it felt very permissive. I had to be more mindful of GOMB right away with dd. And now, with dd2, even though she is still much younger, I've started GOMB earlier. I don't know if it will make much of a difference simply because she is so little, but I figure it's good practice for me. :shifty

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

When I'm working with kids (and my own), I like to think about "follow-through" - so if I say something that requires an action by the child, I generally try to follow through after I say it, in order to make it happen. For some reason there's a difference between following through and expecting first time obedience. Following through involves parental behavior, while first time obedience puts the expectation on the child (regardless of age-appropriate behaviors and abilities).

"It's time to unlatch"
...wait 3-5 seconds...
"Mama will help you."
then do it.

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

:cup

Re: First-Time Obedience?
 

When dd was around 1ish, or maybe 18 months, I took a tool from my parent's toolbox and changed it around to suit me. I use "1,2,3". Instead of spanking coming after three, which is what my parents did, I just "make it happen" after three. It gives the child a concrete time frame in which to choose to comply or not. And it helped me not lose my patience. She usually does whatever it is by 3, but it's not because she's afraid of me. It's because she knows that whatever I've asked of her is going to happen regardless. Works here. (Though now that she's 4, I'm reconsidering. What will happen sometimes is that she'll either count FOR us, like if we go "One..." She'll go "two three!" and do it. Or she'll just yell, "FINE! I"LL GO DO IT BOOBYHEAD!" Or whatever. :rolleyes That's a new set of issues to address.

Wanted to add that nursing an older child is a whole new thing than nursing a baby. It requires more of the child- your breasts are YOUR breasts, and while you are freely giving to your child, setting some boundaries and learning "nursing manners" is quite age appropriate. Having little patience with nursing at this age I think is biological. Weaning is not too far off.

And secondly, thank you Clara for that explanation. I know I've done all three, sometimes within the same incident. It's helpful to see which ones are not helpful for children, and how to do it "right". :)