5 year old stays awake
He will stay awake all night if he can find enough reasons....he’s always been rough in the sleep department since birth. But he’s been in his own bed in his own room for 2 1/2 years now.
Things have gotten worse and worse and I’m so exhausted I’m desperate. He wakes me up over nothing all night long. In and out of his room. For example he woke up at 1:30 this morning for a drink....and proceeded to take 5 potty breaks following that sip of water and never went back to sleep. How is this even possible??? He doesn’t nap. His sleep deprivation is affecting everything too. He can’t even manage to go from the house to the car without a meltdown. I’m majorly summarizing here bc it’s so much to explain. He is anxious and obsessive with his belongings. And refuses to ever be alone. Which as an introverted person myself, is exhausting. He talks nonstop. But when I sit down to play with him (pretend or a game) he won’t play. He would rather talk at me or interrupt his little brother who pretends off on his own happily most of the day. He also has chronic upper and lower respiratory illness so he does 45mins of meds twice daily. He’s just beginning pre-k at home. And we have always been strict with diet and play time and sleep time etc. we follow through and are consistent. Always have been. The only way to even get him to initially fall asleep is two children’s chewable melatonin tabs. But he never stays asleep. But on the rare days when he happens to sleep a decent night and take a nap too, he’s an incredible and totally different kid! Someone please tell me I’m not alone here. Do I take him to a therapist for the anxiety and aggressive behaviors (mostly emotionally aggressive with all of us, but he will be physically aggressive too if anyone dares touch or move his things..) Disclaimer-his Dad had an emotional burn out and was gone from the house for 2months at the start of 2018 which has compounded all of these issues that DS was already having. I’m completely at a loss...I’m so sorry this is a crazy long post [emoji15][emoji51] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
You can get an extended melatonin, but I'd think the chewable would stay in the mouth and give an extended effect, too, if it's not washed out (that's how it does for me).
Don't feel bad about the melatonin. It took me ten years of exhaustion trying to stay awake to put my son to sleep to realize you can fall asleep one of two ways: melatonin or exhaustion. If someone won't produce melatonin naturally, then the choices are supplementation of melatonin or exhaustion. I don't think ten years of being exhausted so much were good for my son's development and he's really blossomed in the years he's been sleeping better. After three years of supplementation, he's going to sleep on a more natural rhythm (as a teenager, yes) and will ask for melatonin if he thinks it's not going to happen. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
Threekids—what melatonin did/do you give him? We’ve been using zarbees brand 1mg chewable. Amazon isn’t showing an extended release option for kids. His Peds pulmo said we could give him up to 6mg. He needs sleep. He has grown Phsyically emotionally since we started melatonin a year ago and he was sleeping better. Since he’s ditched the naps though the lack of sleep is building up again.
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
I have a few questions before I can ponder a suggestion:
You say you are strict with his diet, play time and sleep time. Can you expand on that? Do you mean very strict exact times, or do you mean you make sure his eats well, has plenty of opportunity to play, etc? Also I'm confused by your what you described - he interrupts play to talk to you. If his need is to talk, to communicate, etc then why would that be a bad thing? It sounds like he has a lot going on in his head and really need to talk about some of it. Beyond that I would suggest first you see your pediatrician. Ask for them to check his thyroid numbers (my son has an autoimmune condition that caused rages untreated). And yes, a therapist might be able to give perspective on all of this. Perhaps he is afraid that if he sleeps, someone else will disappear from his life, even temporarily. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
I would also try adding magnesium. maybe in the form of a warm Epsom salt bath before bedtime. Since it seems to be anxiety,need for reassurance related, would make a small bed in your room where he can come and knows it if he needs to. Sometimes knowing they have that safety net option is enough to help them go to sleep more easily and stay in their beds more. This is quite common for that age
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
First, that must be so exhausting :hugheart
There is a lot more going on than just sleep issues :yes Yes, I would take him to my pediatrician and possibly a therapist for the anxiety and aggressive behaviors. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
Yes, I would definitely start with the pediatrician and therapist.
One of my children had issues sleeping and counseling for anxiety along with taking calcium/magnesium at bedtime really helped. There are other health issues that played into it, too, so that was important for me to address as well. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
He could be stuck on fight-or-fight (sympathetic nervous system out of balance with parasympathetic). Kids can be born that way if mom was stressed during pregnancy. They can also get stuck in that mode from stress and trauma, which you alluded too.
Other things sound like developmental delays which could be tied in to the nervous system being very off balance, or at least exacerbated by it. I would look for time-release melatonin as a start. I wouldn't look for a child's version since you know how much you can give him. Just look for time release that's within the dosage limits. Too much melatonin can cause nightmares so I'd start low. Several people have recommended a program called "turn around anxiety." That might be helpful. I wouldn't push school just yet unless he really enjoys it. I had a child who behaved very similarly to what you described, with some differences. It took a look time to figure things out but we're making progress. Expect healing to take time. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
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I don't mind if he wants to talk, we do tons and tons of talking during the day. But if I am trying to make a phone call or help his little brother or quickly accomplish loading the dishes he will persistently (and it feels like emotional aggression to both his dad and I) and relentlessly talk to us to the point of exasperation. A 10minute task ends up taking 25minutes because of the constant interruptions of "look mommy" "watch mommy" or "come here". I don't like having to constantly say "wait a minute" but he is only content and self contained if the tv is on...otherwise he is literally constantly talking. And if we tell him that its time to go pretend on his own or quietly play, he won't. His dad and I can't even have a conversation without him cutting in to ask questions or interrupt. Just typing this out and reading it back to myself, it sounds like we have some cracking down to do behaviorally. But I'm at a loss. I have no idea what to try. He won't leave anybody alone. Now on top of that he won't sleep. We are in a place where we can't afford a counselor unless insurance completely covers it. And the situation with his dad and I was so emotionally ugly I'm afraid to let a counselor in on it. His dad has been home for 6 months now and everything is calm and back to how it was (minus our finances)..I keep hoping he will calm down too. But he hasn't. Does that make sense? ---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ---------- Quote:
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Has he been evaluated for developmental delays or issues like ADHD? It really sounds like he's got some other issues that are major factors in his behavior and sleep.
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
I understand that not wanting him back in there but sometimes knowng they can in their own sleeping bag on floor (not your bed and only if he doesnt wake you up)keeps them from actually doing it.Just for a season. Would also try to think of an activity for him to engage in and focus on before you are going to do something ele like working on a Lego set. Be firm about redirecting him. After I wash the dishes I will talk to you for 10 minutes so I can really listen but until then you need to go do xyor z
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If we had family support on either side all of this would be so much easier to endure perhaps? God has given us a village. I simply second guess myself with FEARS. Where and how would I even begin to explore this? My biggest hitch is the possibility of his behavior being side effects...He is physically delayed from all of the oral and inhaled steroids, and he has spent so much time stuck at home without contact with others beyond occasional church services when he's healthy, that he's emotionally behind too. |
5 year old stays awake
I wasn’t going to mention it but since you did he sounds just like my son who has autism at that age. The getting up for the day in the middle of the night, the not being able to entertain self, the lack of awareness when someone else is talking or busy, wishing and hoping he would watch tv so my brain could function. And he never let me sleep when he was up either. Mine did start sleeping through the night regularly at 6.5 yo and that continued until about 10 when it got ruined again. We started meds for sleep at that point because melatonin no longer was enough.
If you can give up to 6 mg, maybe try giving him 2-3 chewables as soon as he wakes. Or try the timed release, but I doubt it comes in a chewable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Remind yourself that he's not doing this on purpose. He's trying to meet a need. He doesn't know this needs is atypical and it drives most people nuts. He needs help to learn (over time, probably a long time) how to communicate his needs and learn to meet many of his needs on his own. Get the sleep thing sorted out by whatever kind method your can. Sleeping bag in your room that he can get in if he's silent. Melatonin. Magnesium. Essential oils. Herbs. There are things to try. My experiences with counseling at that young age were that it wasn't worth my time. I wouldn't feel badly that you can't afford it. There's lots of reading and research you can do. Some books to look for at your library The Explosive Child (you didn't mention rage but it still might be helpful) Different by Clarkson The Nemechek Protocol (dietary changes that night help, not too difficult) Aspberger's and level 1 autism w/o cognitive or language delays are pretty much synonymous now. So you can look for info on both. He does sound like it fits but this is just a message board, you'll be a better evaluator than us. ---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ---------- Gah, sorry for all the typos. |
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What jumped out at me as I read was the twice a day treatments. When dd was quite small and we were first learning to manage her asthma, she was admitted to the hospital three times. The breathing treatments were much needed but they drove her pulse rate up and her sleep was really impacted. Have you discussed any possible side effects of the treatments and a possible link to sleep disruption? Obviously they're needed meds but perhaps there's an adjustment or something that can offset it if there's a connection. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
He needs to get a good physical from his pediatrician, along with standard bloodwork, plus the thyroid stuff mentioned earlier. Other things, like b12 and vitamin d should also be looked at. Start there, and then I would have a behavioral evaluation done by a psychologist after you get those results, if they don't find anything. You said he goes to preschool? How does he do in that group setting?
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And it seems you have a lot more going on in your home than just this. Maybe separate issues, maybe not. Kids absorb much more than we think they do or like to believe and they are often not part of the working out and resolving things. I also noticed you are a 'ministry wife'. Be careful that that you don't let that status be part of what keeps you from getting help. You also mentioned that your son had an illness. That is another reason to start at the pediatricians office. My son's autoimmune condition was triggered by an illness. Also, if autism is a possibility, they can help you find resources to get help. ---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ---------- Just rereading and something else occurred to me....your son isn't taking Singular by any chance is he? It can really mess up some kids...anxiety, night terrors, etc....I know from personal experience |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
I would read up on the side effects of his breathing treatments. I know some make for some really hard to deal with kids. Not saying not to provide him with medical care, but that may be part of what is going on.
I hope you find some solutions for sleep and peace in your home. Since you had someone bring up autism below, I'll let you know that my family is looking into the possibility of my daughter being autistic. So far, the family and friends we've reached out to have been very, very supportive. While we've got a long way to go as a society in making room for neurodiversity, I have been encouraged that we might get less pushback from loved ones than I feared. |
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Again, no need for you to share any details that you don't want to. Just throwing that out there. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
Also one of the side effects from asthma meds can be restlessness. Can you try doing the neb treatment earlier in the evening?
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Sounds so rough. You have gotten a lot of good input. I would personally dose him with Benedryl at night to see if that helps him to sleep. While there are other things to investigate and try that might help, if you can get immediate gratification with that then it might reduce some of the sourrounding anxiety. I would not just do that, but worth a try in this.
Having studied pharmacology I feel very comfortable with using a sedating antihistamine to help sleep when needed. As long as you follow dosages on the bottle it is very low risk. |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
This sounds like my dd2 :hugheart she would.not.sleep. from 18months to age ....6? Somewhere at 5 it got better at 7 things really turned a corner now at 9 it is just once or twice a month she wakes me.
It wasn't behavioral. :no it wasn't anything we were doing wrong. I had 2 other kids who had been sleeping through the night for years and There she was waking and waking and waking me up. There was an underlying need. :yes One thing that really really helped was audio books. She learned to enjoy them and she could listen to them all night long when she couldn't sleep (locked down kindle fire, she couldn't access anything else but audible and it has the blue screen on it so she wasn't looking at blue light in the night turning on her book). I still hear her audio book going some times in the middle of the night. The other thing was helping heal her gut and lower inflammation, we are still working on Maybe you are already tried everything, but have you looked into the potential connection of conventional dairy and respiratory issues? |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
I’m so sorry. You’ve got a lot going on. So many have mentioned autism as a possibility, but you also mentioned ADHD. I would definitely get a physical from your pediatrician and also ask for a referral to a child psychologist. Some psychologists specialize in testing for ADHD and learning disabilities. They could also evaluate him for anxiety and OCD. I’m not sure what kind of resources you have where you live, but I think you need some professional help. At the very least, you’ll have some insight into what is causing these issues.
We had my now 8-year old daughter tested for ADHD about a year ago, and my suspicions were confirmed - she has it. We were referred by the psychologist to an occupational therapist and that evaluation revealed that she also needs OT. Someone mentioned above about the possibility of him being stuck in the fight or flight mode and that’s one of the issues my daughter has. We are finally in the process of getting her on ADHD medication as well as getting the OT she needs. The delay was due to me procrastinating, for several reasons. I know that not everyone will feel this way with a diagnosis, but just knowing that there were legitimate medical/physiological reasons behind some of her issues was such a relief to me. If side effects of his breathing treatments could be causing his behaviors, or contributing to them, I would guess there may be different medications that treat the same condition. Do you see a pulmonologist? My niece had to have breathing treatments a few times as a toddler and if the doc put her on Prednisone, it totally changed her personality while she was taking it. Also, a lot of counselors will see patients on a sliding scale, meaning they will work with you to set a fee within your budget. If your family income is under a certain amount, maybe you could qualify for your state’s (assuming you’re in the US) children’s Medicaid program. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I pray you can get the help you all need. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
Astma meds absoultely can cause ADHD symptoms that can include feeling restless and jittery and anxious and talkative like you have had too much coffee :hugheart
---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ---------- Have you tried saline treatments alone? |
Re: 5 year old stays awake
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None of my children have needed a nebulizer; is that how the breathing treatments are delivered? Can saline treatments be delivered through a nebulizer? I am not suggesting a neti pot or sinus rinse for a 5-year old, but I will say that my husband has severe seasonal and environmental allergies, and using the NeilMed Sinus Rinse has been extremely helpful for him. So if saline in a nebulizer is a possible treatment for asthma, maybe that could be helpful, with virtually zero side effects. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Often they have kids use nebulizers to administer the meds. Saline neb treatments can be very helpful to help moisten and loosen up the airways so they can move stuff out
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