Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I wrote in the other post that virtual school is NOT home schooling. It is public schooling at home. It's like the public school giving your child all their work to be done as homework.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when you start saying that virtual school is home school, people get really confused. That IS the goal of the NEA. Then as more and more people sign up for a virtual school, accepting the requests to report in to the public school, to be governed by the district/state/federal government, pretty soon the freedom to be able to chose to home educate your child as you see fit will be less and less. If our society begins to believe that public school at home is home schooling we will be in trouble.

Trying to give an example. When people I know are taking classes for college at home on their computer, they never say they are home schooling. They say they are taking college courses- at home. Virtual Schools are taking public school classes- at home. They have different laws to follow than those who chose to home educate their children. No matter what kind of home schooler you are, be it, school at home, relaxed, unschooler, ecclectic...you are still a home schooler. You do not have to follow the same laws that those who do public school at home.

Again, I am coming from the point of trying to preserve the freedom to be able to chose to home educate your child as YOU see fit. When the public schools introduced this and called it homeschooling, they knew exactly what they were doing. It does not fall under the same guidelines that home schooling families follow. They never liked families choosing home schooling back in the 70's and 80's and many, many families stood up for the rights we have today.

I guess I just wish that people would say that they are doing public school at home. :shrug It's not just a game of semantics. It is important to keep them separate to maintain the freedoms that home schooling families enjoy.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

We may in the future choose to use a local virtual academy. I'll probably say were homeschooling in the general sense that we are having school at our home but I do agree with you about the diffrence. We just might at least start out with such a way because DH wont agree to another way but I know him he will VERY quickly want to work and a diffrent pace and set of pirorties than the virtual academy but at lass tiny steps...

Deanna

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Just so I understand what exactly is threatened from say your true HS freedoms buy a virtual schooler saying they are a homeschooler. I see the VERY distint diffrence I just dont see where one threatens the other. Turly asking as were slowing beging the journey ourselfs. :)

Deanna

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I can understand and appreciate the difference and as I learn more about homeschooling I can see why someone would be passionate about keeping the two ideas distinct. There is a lot of history there that I am just learning.

However I think when most people think of homeschooling it refers to the actual environment rather than the material or its source. I'm not sure that's totally inaccurate...and I think some parents who do a virtual school picked it not just for their child to be at home but because of the curriculum.

Like I said I can understand wanting to highlight the difference given the history but I'd hate for people to feel divided about it. Just :twocents from a hs newbie.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

It has to do with cultural perception more than anything. I have no problem with people using/doing virtual academies. But it's not homeschooling. With homeschooling there is a freedom to choose my own curriculums and the responsibility that comes with it; the responsibility to set our course for education; the opportunity to be delight driven; so many things that are important to me and not available in public school settings. The environment is only one aspect of homeschooling to me. I don't call Virtual Academy homeschooling :shrug I call it Virtual Academy.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I agree Crystal.. and I'd also say homeschooler depending on my audience like talking with my general neighbors where as I'm just stating we do our school time at our house and where as I know they just dont get or frankly care about the diffrence. To say you I'd say we use a Virtual academy and be comfortable and confident you'd perfectly understand what that means. For me Virtual schooling may be a for our family a needing sort of stepping stone I personally can not see myself or my child doing the riggors of a VA year after year.

Deanna

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes

I think a lot of people see it as a transition tool.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

ITA with the OP. It's not that Virtual Academies don't have a place in the educational landscape - they do. :yes But being enrolled in a public school by virtue of "distance learning" is not the same as homeschooling. They are distinct, and it is not just an issue of semantics.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

But just TRY to put yourself in the place of a mama who may not be as confident as you are to just jump out on her own, or who may not be able to afford to buy materials to homeschool. Then how does "You're not REALLY a homeschooler" sound?

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Though I think as a whole the transistion will be a lot harder than the umm real deal :giggle

FWIW as well I'm not anti puplic schooling as I'm not against the idea of a classroom with teachers and a more sctructred cicrulum that will have to meet the needs of multiple students at once and the unique challanges that presents.. I thing of say my mother whos parents spoke little English whom didn't read and how thankful they were to have teachers for there children.. However I don't like the burcuracy thats been overtaking the "PS" system for many generations now. The one that limits good hard working teachers the ability to well teach that places standarize test teaching and getting there numbers for federal funding more important that really doing whats best to try to reach as many students as they can adecmically. Sad really..
Deanna
Deanna

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes My son attends Connections Academy, and when folks ask me about his "homeschooling" I try to correct their impression: yes, he's home, but he's doing virtual school. They have the whole curriculum planned out, he has a teacher for each subject, assignments he must submit, etc.
I have certain flexibility as far as what additional work I require (other than submitted assignments) and *when* he does the work, but that's about it. Waaayyy different than homeschooling.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

A question though.. In as far as GCM forums where would a virtual schooler belong?

Deanna

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I must say, I agree with Teacher Mom. And my family was one of those that fought for the rights of hs'ers in my home state back in the 80's. :rockon

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

They have always been welcomed in the HS forum :) You won't be able to participate so much in curriculum choices, but you deal with issues about having your child home all the time and providing the socialization ;)

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

This is the second time you have made this comment and this is the second time that a pang of hurt shot through my heart. You are free to express your opinion mama..but I want to gently ask that you rethink this statement and consider rephrasing it or not say it anymore because it is not true and it is really really hurtful to those of us that chose this route. It seems venomous.

I addressed this comment in the other thread..but I will say it again. VSing is not sitting your child down with homework and telling him to do it. You have no idea the amount of teaching and prep time there is to VSing. I had to prepare at least 45min every single night to be ready for the next day's lessons...then I had to sit in front of my child every day...5 days a week...4 hours a day and instruct him and teach him as if I were teaching a classroom full of 1st graders. It was intense...it was hard and it was tiring. It was not an easy task and your statement really makes me feel as though everything I poured into this and my child was somehow substandard and made me feel very belittled as a homeschooling mom.

I am not trying to be snarky...and I am not mad..but I honestly was up until 2am this morning dwelling on this statement and trying to assign positive intent. I KNOW you are not trying to be hurtful or venomous and I know that it is more of an irritation of how the government is working to chip away at all the rights that HSers have worked to gain. I just know that if I find hurt in these words, being a mom that is now anti-VSing...then how must the mom who is still VSing or preparing to VS feeling

LOL...yeah...I had NO niche with schooling here. I was not *really* welcomed to come in here because it was quite evident how the HSing public felt about my choice to VS...I had not voice in the other forum because I was HSing to them...so there was not place to fit in or get support. It was a hard place to be in and now I can see how the delayed/selective vaxers feel kind of.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

We virtual school and semantics-wise, it depends on my audience whether I correct the perception of homeschooling vs. virtual schooling :shrug

In our state the p.s. sponsored VA has elements of support for hs'ers. We don't have to follow the curriculum exactly. We don't have to take all the courses. We can opt out of state testing. We can be hs'ers choosing one element of the curriculum they offer. This year w/ds as a kindergartener we've done the whole curriculum. Next year, as a 2nd grader (mama brag warning ;) he's already through K and into 1st grade stuff) we'll probably only do 2 subjects from the VA and only because I feel the curriculum is the strongest out there. But I know other VA's don't have that kind of freedom and it really depends on the state.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I guess I am the one that caused this spin off because I said:
My difintion of homeschooling is: "Teaching your child at home." The VA parents are doing that so IMO they are homeschooling.
I understand where you are coming from because I do feel that the VAs take too much control and I personally do not like them and would *never* *ever* utilize them myself.

BUT I have compassion on those that use them. The people I know that use them feel that they give them more freedom than ps would. They can teach their child Bible and can give their opinions on the topics that they are teaching. They can say, "We don't believe that because...." They would have never been able to do that if their child was off at PS with another teacher teaching them.

The people I know IRL that use them are very alone. The PS hate them because they are using the tax $$ that the public schools want put towards their schools and the homeschoolers "hate" them because the feel that they will cause them to loose their freedoms. These families need support and they really don't get any support. They are very, very, very alone. That is where my post on the other thread was coming from.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Absolutely....it was very lonely feeling and not a fun place to be in the middle of.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I was thinking our terms are poor. There are a lot more situations out there than the terms can cover. In generalities, I'd say there is child-led-learning, parent-led-learning, and institutionally-led-learning. And those can happen at home or in a building somewhere or in someone's house in a big group or whatever.

I think for the purposes of the forums here, anyone who is educating their child(ren) under their own roof or in a group of other parents educating their kids under rotating roofs, that's homeschooling. It comes with the same set of power struggles, housework/life/money/littler kids/social issues/time, etc for all educational types. We are here (IMO) to talk curriculum and such to some extent, but more to figure out how to be with our kids 24/7 in a culture that sees that as anything from less than ideal to fully damaging and destructive. To find successful ways to navigate a day with a kid you are tired of and don't particularly enjoy today. To biuld full, well-rounded healthy lives with our kids of all ages and stages. I think that definitely encompasses a VA mom every bit as much as a HSing curriculum mom and even us wildcard unschoolers.

For the purposes of talking to the rest of the world, safeguarding freedoms, etc, we need better terminology. :/

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:hug :hug :hug :hug

thank you for trying to assign positive intent because I did not mean to hurt you or anyone.

I could hear the hurt and pain in your post and it just makes me angry that the requirements the public schools impose are such that make moms lose their confidence in their ability to teach their own child. You are their mother. Of course, you can teach your own child. You have been doing it all along. You do not need a degree in order to do that. You are their teacher.

As Crystal said in the other thread (after this one was started), this IS why the public schools have did this. Sadly when people are deciding to home school or not, they will call their local school or state for information. That is the last place you should be calling. They are not going to tell you the laws of home schooling because odds are they do not even know. It is HARD to find the information needed. I remember. I never heard of HSLDA. I didn't have the internet yet. I felt like a fish out of water trying to learn about something that no one seemed to know anything about. The only home schooling family I knew used BJU and I did not want to use that. I remember asking her who I had to contact to get "permission" to teach my kids.

I finally learned of a group from my local library. Then I went to so many meetings. I learned from veteran home schooling families who were passing the torch so to speak. I always thought, kids turn five, I need to register them. Off they go. I never knew I could keep them at home. This is a freedom that the government is trying to change over time by calling it the same name that home schoolers who did it on their own have been using for over 30 years in our countries current history. Ok. Current. History. I just made myself laugh. :O

I hope that I am making more sense about this. Hearing these families talk about how superintendants used to make their lives awful, just awful is why I want to make sure that more people understand the distinction.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I understand what you're saying - I would hate for a mom to have a bad experience with a virtual school and think, "This is homeschooling? This sure isn't what it's cracked up to be!" Homeschooling can be so much more.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes2 And . . . "I *can't* do it without their help--this is too hard."

Add in the family who assumes it *should* be VA and you must be a renegade.

Or the well meaning neighbor who asks how the children did on their tests and then is :hunh :/ :scratch that you don't have oversight.

The potential complications are many.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I think, though, that you're making a dangerous assumption (or at least communicating an assumption) that all or most VA families are choosing to virtual school because of lack of confidence or lack of education about hsing or because they don't realize what their choices are or think hsing is too hard. Our family is making an educated choice to VS at this time in our lives; many of the other VS families that I've met are also making similar educated choices. Some are not, but for the most part our experience has shown that VS families do their homework about their schooling options.

Like Michelle said earlier, being a vs'er can be a tough choice to make because hs'ers tend to look down on you and you don't fit in w/ps'ers. I missed the other thread about this, but can see where vs families might feel hurt about the tone expressed here, it's like we're less because we vs. :shrug I'm guessing that's not what you're meaning to communicate but I can see where it might feel that way.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes2 Many people have felt the same about charters. I am blessed *for now* to be in a charter that is rather free in what curriculum I choose an how I choose to teach it. Yet I struggle and pray about the decision to stay in and for how long. EventuallyI want to be totaly independant, but until that time I very much think that I do, infact, homeschool. (I understand virtual schools a lot have more control though.) But I am aware of the freedoms I gave up.


My reasons for this choice are varied, but are based on money, the need for someone else to keep my ADD self structured, compromise with dh, and other things. Deep down I much prefer the idea of independent HS - I am also easily "hated" by homeschoolers and public schoolers alike. :( I have to let it go, though; technically NO ONE in my state homeschools. You are either in a public or private school. All that varies is how large that private school is and what is done through that school.

However as much as I am not a fan of the PS system, I do not buy in completely to the conspiacy about the virtuals and charters. I am not convinced that they are attempting to chip away at rights we have by having virtual or charter schools, what *I* see is them wanting a peice of the pie and HS is popular. Yes, so they get people to do a virtual or charter who otherwise might have "gone it alone." (And that is very unfortunate. I keep praying for some sort of voucher that would allow low income people to HS without too many strings.) But I see that as different than eroding a parent's right to HSing in the true sense.

edited for grammer and clarifaction of a few garbled sentences.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Here's the thing...I believe that ALL forms of alternative education (not public/private brick and mortar schooling) should be available and encouraged. Each one meets a set of needs and combined they provide a rich set of opportunities to educate our children in the way we deem best. The problem I (and possibly others here) have with calling all schooling that takes place in the home "homeschooling" is that it blurs the distinctions and puts those of us who are opposed to government controlled schooling at risk of seeing the freedoms that the pioneers of this movement worked so hard for eroded away. HSLDA...for all the good things they do...are too in bed with the ideals of the NEA to suit me. I think it is telling of the blurring that Mike Huckabee can be endorsed simultaneously by both groups. When I say the VA's are not homeschooling it is because it is CRITICAL to maintaining my freedoms as a homeschooler to be distinct about what each type of alternative education actually IS and is not. As a homeschooler I am saying that my child's education is 100% MY concern and responsibility. I do not accept the government's assertion that because my child is some arbitrary age I must now turn their education over to the state in any way shape form or fashion. I don't cast stones at those who choose to use VA's I think that for some they can be a wonderful educational choice but they are NOT homeschooling. They're just not. Any time you have to be accountable to another entity regarding the content or method you are using alternative schooling, sometimes in the home sometimes not...sometimes part time in the home and part time not. The program I teach in says that "we're still homeschooling"...No...we're not...we make the assignments, we assign the grades and we send home a grade report to the parents. That's not homeschooling, even if they are at home 3 days out of the week. Its a wonderful alternative program to public schooling but it is, in reality, an alternative private school. Its not "less than" homeschooling...but it IS different.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

That. :yes

<donning my well-worn I Love Terri hat>

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I understand that and esentially agree.

Still, in many states you have to report to the govt in some fashion or other. Are parents in those states not truly homeschooling?

My biggest concern is when those who use "alternative school" are looked down upon or not included in HS circles as a result of how one labels it. There is a mom at my congregation who was open and friendlyto me when I talked about HSing my child. And she doesn't doesnt seem to mind those in private or public. But when she found out I was in a charter she pretty much turned on me :no2 And some groups seriously wont let you in. I am not talking about th HSLDA and its legal protection, I get THAT. I mean meetings and clubs where I am excluded from getting valuable advice and fellowship simply because of where my curriculum comes from.

That is why I hate making such distictions. :( I wish instead we would just use words like "idenpendent HSing" "HS through a VA" or whatever. That way the difference is noted, but it does not become a way to wage war against each other.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Heather, I think it's hateful when people who made a prayerful and educated choice for the overall best interests of their family become the recipients of the strong feelings people have about movements or institutions :( We've warmly welcomed people into our homeschool coop who do VA. Their children are home, they need socializing opportunities, and they support "pulling out"of the public school *system*. Great :tu

I think this is one of those areas where theory may never see eye to eye but we have to live together as sisters in the Lord and I will never tell any of you that you are "less than" for making a different educational choice. I hope no one hears that in my thoughts about the motivation and concerns I see with VA's being offered. :grouphug

I agree with several who have indicated we just don't have an adequate vocabulary for it all :yes

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I have never felt the judement against *me* here. :hug Not even on this particular thread. We all have strong opinons on what we think is best. And I am one of the odballs schooling against my ideal theory because of other ideals I have (family unity, etc.)

It is a very sad and loney place to be when somehow a parent judges me as if I am singlehandendly going to make someone come and confiscate their chilren for HS - or worse that I am immoral and outside God's will for what I do. And on a lesser scale it hurts to be excluded because I dont "really" HS - focusing on the differences rather than the similarites.

So I guess all that is to say that I agree. We need to define 100% parent led HS (As much as is allowed by the sate) in a way that is distinct from other parents who school from home in some degree. I even understanding wanting a place to feel safe in the uniquness of the 100% HSing option. But when those words become a way to judge and exclude, I have a big problem with that. Why cant the HS group down the street be the way GCM is on issues - "you dont have to agree, but understand that the postion of this group is that HS independently is the ideal and we have strong feelings against govt involovement, you are free to join as long as you are not trying to undermine that belief."

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

because GCM is just an amazing place :grin

:hug

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

:yes :luvgcm
:grouphug

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

I could be wrong, as I really haven't researched any state other than my own. To be perfectly honest, I am not homeschooling under my state law. The only way to legally homeschool in TN is to go through the LEA (local education authority) which puts me right back under the jurisdiction of the public school. Or to homeschool through a church related school (CRS) that reports high schoolers to the LEA which AGAIN puts me right back under the jurisdiction of the public school. OR have my daughter "attend" a private CRS where I am considered faculty member and my home is considered a satellite campus of the private CRS where my daughter is enrolled. I therefore I fall under the requirements of that school not the requirements of the state schools. Ironically in TN this is the route that actually provides us the most educational freedom.

A large percentage of homeschoolers use the Jeter Memo option (which is the one I just described) because as a rule the cover schools let us do whatever we want in regards to our children's education and all they really do is keep our records for us. We pick curriculum, they approve it. We choose how to teach it. When she graduates she will have a diploma from Gateway Christian School. In order to "homeschool" the way our predecessors wanted us to have the freedom to homeschool I have to chose an option that makes me technically NOT a homeschooler in the eyes of the law. I understand the paradox, I really do.

I'd love to see "alternative schooling" become the catch-all term. I think it would bind us together in a way that simply homeschooling doesn't. But until that happens we need to be clear about what it is that we are actually doing. I homeschool but I'm not a homeschooler if that makes a lick of sense. Just as you homeschool but you're not a homeschooler either.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

That happens all, too, often. :( :bheart

That's why as much as I worry about government using VA's to take away homeschooling freedoms, that I make sure to let the VA parents know that I see them as homeschooling moms and accept them. I share many of the same feelings about VAs as those of you who refuse to call it homeschooling but not matter how much I personally dislike VAs, the parents using them are homeschooling in my mind because they are teaching their children at home and they never ever should be excluded from homeschooling support groups, gatherings, etc. They should be accepted and loved.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

That's a good point. As I understand it for me to homeschool I will have to pay someone to evaluate the information I put together explaining our school work, so they can report back to the school district about what we're doing.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

wow Teri....:jawdrop I had no idea you had to jump through so many hoops just to have your God given right...to keep your child at home. Wow.

I'm suddenly feeling very blessed to be hs'ing in Missouri....

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

One thing about the term "alternative school" is that it's already being used for institutional schooling situations that are alternatives to traditional situations.

I was in EOP - Educational Opportunities Program - in high school. It was basically an alternative to traditional high school, and was referred to as "alternative school" by some.

I took half my classes with EOP instructors, in one big area, with the same students. I took the other half of my classes at the regular high school but we also had the option of doing a kind of junior internship for credit at some job in town during those hours. EOP was a closed environment, you took your EOP classes in the morning or afternoon, all hours run together, and it was a very cool community feel and without it I might have quit school. It was absolutely alternative and absolutely unrelated to anything at home or parent directed.

So I am just wondering if these types of alternatives are included in the general idea of educational choice, or not, or if I am just muddying the waters further. ;)

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

add to that the fact that "charter" school means different things in different states and all sorts of other linguistic hoops :doh

Dare I suggest that pure homeschooling go back to the original definition of Unschooling as being detached and unaffiliated with the state in any way?

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

WOW! I looked at Missouri's laws and I WISH it were that simple here. In reality it sounds a lot more complicated than it is. I send my registration paperwork to Gateway with a list of what I'm using as curriculum. I send grades twice yearly. Boom. Done. You learn to work within the system to accomplish what you need to.

I'm looking at possibly being the MHEA legislative liason next year and this has become something I'm super aware of the necessity for accurately stating what we're doing in the correct legalese now.

Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home
 

Arizona we just let the superintendant of public schools know before we start (or after :shrug) and then we never hear from the state again :rockon and a lot of our legislation was actually written by a homeschooling high schooler whose family got in with a state legislator who sponsored the bills :tu