A "complete" phonics program
 

Have you ever heard the term a 'complete phonics program'? I'm told that it would be a program that teaches all the rules behind our language (in addition to the basic phonics?). I'm not sure. :-/ But I think it's something my children need (especially the rules part).

The other moms I've talked to IRL say that Explode the Code, Hooked on Phonics, Teach Your Child to Read, insert name of your favorite phonics program here, etc. are not complete programs.

They think that Spalding is a complete program. There is one other one they mentioned as being 'complete' but it's out of print atm.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from other mamas. Is there such a thing as a 'complete' phonics program? How would you define it and have you found one you love?

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

:think I've never heard of anything like that. (And boy, that means nothing! :shifty I haven't heard of a LOT of things irt hs'ing... :bag )

I used HOP for a bit with 2 of my dc. They hated it. :-/

Since then, I have just used a very eclectic style of teaching and materials and phonics haven't been a big issue.

(I'm not sure I am too wrapped up in the whole idea of phonics anyway... :duck )

:popcorn

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons is *not* a complete phonics program - it provides a good jumpstart to sound blending and some basic phonics but that's it. DS and I really enjoyed it but I also had to draw a lot on my own knowledge and memory of phonetic rules and rhymes, and once we finished doing it (stopped around lesson 75 IIRC) then I used some other phonics tools to help him with things he still wasn't solid on (like some vowel blends and knowing when to pronounce with a long vs. short vowel sound).

I thought Hooked on Phonics was supposed to be pretty complete though :shrug. I have HS friends whose kids learned to read from it.

I would expect if you did every single workbook in Explode the Code it would be considered complete - not sure as we just did part of the first workbook and I found it rather dull and boring. It didn't help DS on his path to reading although he liked circling the letters and scribbling in it.

I think Sing, Spell, Read and Write is probably a 'complete' program - it is very thorough (based on my memory of how it worked).

I would suspect that if you did the entire Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading it would also be considered complete, though I found it terribly dull and only used it as a reference for what phonics rules DS did and didn't know yet so I could explain the new ones in books as we read - I didn't use the book's method with him.

Those are the main programs I can think of...he also plays on Starfall and I got the Leap Frog "Letter Factory" DVD's from the library for him to watch - the songs about the different vowel patterns were helpful for him.

That's my entire experience and knowledge of different reading programs - it's still pretty fresh in my mind b/c DS just learned to read this year.

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

They used Spalding Phonics at the school I used to teach at. The Spalding Method really is a lot more comprehensive than any other phonics method I've ever run across. I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing for all kids, but it's still very thorough. There's a huge long list of phonograms to memorize and another really long list of rules that the kids are supposed to learn too. The kids learn the reasons why every. single. word. is spelled the way that it is when the word is taught. (It's been over 10 years since I had my Spalding training so I can't remember all of the details.) I learned a ton about how words are put together and the reason behind the spelling of a lot of words when I had the training. It was interesting. There were a lot of homeschoooling moms in my training class too.

It's a fairly inexpensive program, as phonics programs go. All you really need is the book, The Writing Road To Reading and the phonogram cards. You might be able to find a copy of the book and see if it's a good fit for you. (I do think it might be hard to implement without some training. It's pretty complicated.) Slingerland is also supposed to be similar to Spalding. If I remember right, they both "evolved" from the Orton-Gillingham (sp) Method.

Personally, I always thought Spalding was a little overkill. I'd probably use it if I were homeschooling, just because I already know it and I do think it's a good program, but I don't think it's that superior to Explode the Code or Hooked on Phonics. :shrug3 Plenty of kids learn to read and spell quite proficiently without it. (And for that matter, I still spell quite poorly despite it! :lol)

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

I dont know how complete it is but I use horizons and like it. we also supplemented it with hooked on phonics http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Read-Kin...7977273&sr=8-1

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

I love Spaldings.... I don't now all the phonograms but I love them. Ds has a such a great spelling comprehension because of this programs. You can get the cards and a sound cd from her website.

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

I think what might be meant by complete is teaching all of the phonograms including all of the sounds they make, and all of the spelling rules.

A program that says they use phonics can be teaching rules like "when two vowels go a walking the first one does the talking" (which is not a good rule because it doesn't work all of the time), or just teach one sounds for /ea/ when there are really three (explode the code uses two), or only two of the sounds of /ou/ and assume the kids will pick up the rest. Or they can teach the rules that will fit most if the time, with fewer exceptions.

I think explode the code is more of a supplement than a stand alone program. :think I always see it in LA programs as part of a program including other things.

Spalding (WRTR), Spell to Write and Read, All About Spelling, are all Orton-Gillingham based phonics and teach all of phonics. I think Reading Reflex is similar. Winter Promise is pretty close to this approach with their LA; they use a variety of things.

Ordinary Parent's Guide and Phonics Pathways are also thorough, but they are slightly different in that they don't teach the sounds of each phonogram all at once, and they work more with word families (ETA: at least OPG is, I think PP is also).

I haven't seen Hooked on Phonics.

I don't believe all kids need all of that phonics. I never had that as a kid and did not need it for reading or spelling. However, as an adult, I find my pronunciation of unfamiliar words is a lot better now that I have a better understanding of phonics and syllabication (from teaching my kids).

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

really? they have it used on amazon for $5. well, the 4th edition. but after reading some reviews, it sounds like that is the better choice (than then 5th) for hs.

they sell a lot of other stuff on the website...all sorts of work books, cards, etc. but you don't really need any of that?

---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

did you find the book WRTR, the cd and cards to be all you needed? or did you buy the HS kits?

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Abeka phonics is complete, imo. We use the charlotte mason method for just about every subject *but* phonics, lol. I love the abeka phonics program. It teaches all of the rules/etc. I will note that I do *not* do all of the suggested activites/etc in the curriculum guide. I teach the lesson, we do a worksheet and play games. I did have B read the readers to me as well. I really love it!

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

-
Quote:
Originally Posted by lavender mom http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...s/viewpost.gif
It's a fairly inexpensive program, as phonics programs go. All you really need is the book, The Writing Road To Reading and the phonogram cards. You might be able to find a copy of the book and see if it's a good fit for you. (I do think it might be hard to implement without some training. It's pretty complicated.) Slingerland is also supposed to be similar to Spalding. If I remember right, they both "evolved" from the Orton-Gillingham (sp) Method.




Yeah, I was looking at their website last night, just to sort of refresh my memory and I was surprised at all the things they had in their packages. The leveled readers are new. I thought Romalda Spalding was anti-leveled readers and thought kids should be reading "quality literature.":scratch I can't compare the two editions of TWRTR. I haven't even picked up my copy in 8 years.

The notebooks they sell as part of their kits are just blank composition books. The pink ones have wider lines for younger writers but we used regular composition books starting in 2nd grade and they worked fine. The McCall Harby/McCall Crabb booklets are useful, but not essential imo. They have passages to read and then multiple choice questions for comprehension. You could find similar things in almost any reading comprehension workbook you picked up at Barnes and Noble. I never used any of the other items they put in their kits- I think that might have been part of the "level 2 program" that we didn't really use at our school. The phonogram CD would be helpful if you're just starting out because Spalding is pretty picky about the way the phonograms are pronounced. But other than that, I think a copy of TWRTR & a stack of phonograms cards could take you a pretty far.

Edited to add:Looking at the website once more, I think the other thing I might get if were just starting out would be the Spelling video they list on this page:
http://spalding.org/store/av_products.php

The way they teach the words is one of the things that I think makes Spalding so unique. It's pretty different, and would be a lot harder to understand without having actually seen it.

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Thanks. I've been following this thread for more ideas/insight.

I have a friend who swears by Spell to Write & Read for teaching phonics.

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Phonics Pathways teaches phonics then spelling along with rules... we use it in a CM'ish way. :giggle

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Spalding and Wilson are complete programs.

The Florida Center for Reading Research has great reviews on various reading programs... http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/LReports.aspx

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

:popcorn very interesting.

oh the library has the The Writing Road to Reading book

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

I was about to post this same thing. Abeka's phonics program is complete. As far as the rules, there's a huge emphasis on the word "usually."

-"When there's only one vowel in a word, that vowel usually says it's short sound."

-"When two vowels are together, the first one usually says it's long sound while the second one is silent."

-"When there's a silent 'e' on the end of a word, the first vowel usually says it's long sound."

This is because toward the end of 1st grade and then again in 2nd, it is revealed that that isn't ALWAYS the case, so having drilled them with "usually" for the past couple of years lets them know from the get-go that there are exceptions.

AFA "The Writing Road to Reading," I just threw that book out yesterday. :shifty I'd had it sitting in my supply closet for a few years and just cleaned the closet out. I actually still have it (because I'm slowly cleaning out the classroom, etc. getting ready for next year, so the trash bags are all still in the classroom until we're ready to do one big trash haul).

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

you should list and sell it...

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Can you say more about that? How do you use it?

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

Bear with me...I think this is gonna be a long post!

Let me just start by saying that I taught 9 yo dd phonics using a bunch of different curriculum...I also did not teach any formal spelling until 3rd grade. We did copywork since 1st grade and added dictation this past year only, using CM methods. If dd doesn't know how to spell a word, I never tell her to guess. Then, when I felt that she had her phonics down (and as Phonics Pathways suggests) I went back to learn spelling rules. This is how we do it using Phonics Pathways...

1. Review the rule
2. Have dd read aloud the words that follow that rule from the book
3. Copywork of 5-10 words (depending on how long they are), then "study" those words (look at word, visualize in mind, repeat, cover word, then write it--erase if wrong, then repeat until correct)
4. review rule and words with dd, having her spell words out loud (our "test" at the end of the week)...if she isn't sure about a word, I let her look...then she goes back to step #3 to "study" the word...the whole point is NOT to let her spell the word wrong and only see it spelled correctly
5. do this (steps #1-4) with all words in this section (if dd says she knows them without doing the copywork, I let her skip copywork--surprisingly, she knows how to spell a lot of words, just by reading good literature and copywork/dictation)
6. the book uses the words in phrases... I have dd read those out loud to me (by now, this is probably the 4th time or so she has seen this word)
7. the book has a review section, utilizing words that follow the rule in sentences... dd reads these out loud to me (this is the 5th time or more that she has seen this word spelled correctly)
8. I choose a few sentences to use for dictation, and this becomes our "final test," and I also ask her if she remembers the rule (if she doesn't remember, I tell her)

That's it! Actually, the book suggests many of these steps, I just kinda tweaked it... The whole section can be stretched out over a week, or several weeks.

For the most part, dd has done well and knows how to spell the words by the end of this process...it sounds kinda long, but it really isn't...most of the time, she skips a lot of the copywork because she already knows the words, or catches on to the rule quickly... You kinda have to see the format of the book in order to really get what I'm saying. :)

I don't expect her to memorize the rules, just be familiar with it and know how to apply it...

In the meantime, we are still continuing with regular copywork/dictation from literature and history. Now that we are studying rules and she is grasping that concept, we will look up any words she has difficulty with in our book, and very briefly review the rule...(it has an index to spelling rules)

I'm teaching my 4 yo to read using Phonics Pathways, and really like it more than anything else I've used...

Crystal clear, right?!? :giggle If you have more questions to clarify, feel free to pm me! :heart

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

because its a bad method? or you just never used it....:scratch

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

:popcorn

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

This makes perfect sence to me and also terifies me I spell all sorts of things wrong. That is the main reason I have been thinking about getting a curriculum for me to go thought before Early Bird is reading things I write to help my spelling.

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

It's totally ok to use a dictionary for spelling! Not everybody is a perfect speller... You can learn rules right along side your dc! :yes

Re: A "complete" phonics program
 

I can't use a dictionary for spelling I am so far off. The Google spelling algorithm helps a great deal but I am always taking a couple of guesses and then having to go look up words to see if it is the one I want. I don't know if I could get any better but for the first tiem in my life it is important to me to try to improve my spelling. If I get some thing and end up in tears like I did all the way through school then I will have to carry my Franklin speller around with me all the time.