Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

My cousin who is a missionary in a nondenominational church recommended the site to me, and I'm not sure by looking at their site but I get a weird vibe. Is it gentle or is it rooted in the quiverful movement?

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Above Rubies is extremely QF and I would recommend you stay far away from them and the poisonous ideas they put out there. It was thinking like theirs that influenced me so much and brought my family to the brink.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

If anyone is more familiar, could you give me some concerns and scriptural reasons why they are dangerous? He said he doesn't agree 100% with their teachings but I don't know which teachings he doesn't agree with. He said that the site references their church as a ministry. I replied back that I've been blessed with this site greatly. He and his wife have a baby about a month old, though, and I would like to share with them why I disagree with the quiverful movement but I don't know as much about them as I do many other teachers.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

If you read their website it's very revealing. http://aboverubies .org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290:f amily-life--disciplining-gods-way&catid=36&Itemid=60

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

See, I don't think Above Rubies is that terrible. Yes, there are pieces that I disagree with strongly but some of it is good stuff. I'm not conservative by any means and I really enjoyed The Power Of Motherhood.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

I still get the Above Rubies free magazine. :shifty I have been getting it for about 7-8 years I think.

I think it has helped with my healing, coming out of the Gothard-QF movement.

Yes, when I first started getting it, I was reading it as if it were the bible. These ladies seem to have it all together 24/7. Nancy and her dd's commune is in TN. There retreat is actually coming up. All mamas and their babies are welcome. I was invited to go one year, but never did. Anyone ever been to one? :think

They are all for BF'ing long term. Eating only whole foods, having as many Dc as you can etc. I suppose if you are able to spit and chew, then why not. :shrug3

That said, This months issue...I just got it last week. Nancys article is all about punitive parenting. :( She went on and on, about spanking, using the Proverbs text for back-up if I am recalling.

I am not sure if you can read all the articles online or not. I do not go to their homepage anymore. But if you can. I would suggest reading some of Nanys stuff, to get a better idea on their beliefs.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Very much not gentle, and very rooted in the patriarchal QF movement.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

From what I've gathered around here, the message of Above Rubies the magazine and the message of the website and the conferences are often different.

The magazine focuses on encouraging stories of motherhood and marriage, but it sounds to me like the website and conferences focus more on (punitive) discipline and some pretty conservative views on wife only submission in marriage . . . I don't know. I have never been to a conference, but I don't like what I have read on the website. This most recent issue of the magazine had some unsettling opinions on marriage.

ETA: Wanted to clarify for newer members - not *everyone* here is opposed to wife only submission, and normally the articles I've read in there on marriage were uplifting to me. There were just a couple of articles in this most recent issue made some statements about wives staying marriages where the husband is addicted to harmful things or is unfaithful that were just upsetting to me. And I come from a VERY conservative understanding of these things. It was upsetting enough for me to email and asked to be removed from the mailing list.

There are women here who have been encouraged by the positive messages about mothering and the welcome support for natural living practices. You'll find mixed opinions on the topic here, for sure!

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

This is my experience as well. They DO HAVE a quiverfull mindset that I personally find very refreshing since my husband and I are spacing naturally, but not "preventing" children. I LOVE the pro-bf'ing, natural health and wellness, etc.

I missed the latest magazine and didn't see the article. I'm subscribed to the yahoo group email list and generally enjoy skimming through the posts.

Definitely some anti-gothard/gothard-recovering folks on the list who would be not-happy to have the two equated. LOL!

Angela <><

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Angela!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember you on the AR yahoo group. :yes I thought you lived in VA. though. :think I think we talked before. I know I spent many days praying for you. :heart Do you still have your blog?

I use to be on that group a couple years ago. I shared my expirence with the Gothard/QF movement during that time there. I seem to recall several folks not seeing anything wrong with Gothard though, and grew up with his teachings. :scratch

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

Once upon a time, I was a member of a QF (at the time, the only QF) email loop that was associated with the Above Rubies ladies.

I was kicked off that list because I dared to question what a woman's doctor wanted her to do with regard to a pregnancy issue. The moderators said that I was encouraging her to defy his authority :rolleyes

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

We know the Campbell family very well, (Mrs. Campbell is the editress of the magazine) and my daughter has just returned from living with them as a helper for 6 weeks - she had a blast, and I was the leader of The Power of Motherhood e-group for about five years.

They are definately NOT gothardites, and although they encourage people to have many children in the sense that children are wonderful blessings and gifts from God, they are not hardcore quiverfull, and if you have read The Power of Motherhood, Nancy does have a section where she understands that there may be times in your marriage/faith that you just do not feel able to have another child, and encourages couples to use non-chemical forms of birth control in these situations. Nancy has written the book "Be Fruitful and Multiply" so yes, she definately promotes being quiverfull, but there are also many on this board who believe in giving control of their wombs to God.

They are very PRO attachment parenting, co-sleeping, extended breastfeeding, natural/whole foods, natural living, etc. They are pro-wifely submission, but again many on this group are also. From Nancy's own words, even though our husbands may have the final word, we as wives are VERY influential, and she does not expect women to be silent. Nancy, herself is FAR from a silent, doormat wife.

The only thing that they would probably have in the magazine that is not in agreement with gentle parenting is that they are not against spanking, although this is not a major theme in their magazines, although it does come up from time to time, and you can choose to disagree, the Campbells are not afraid of disagreement, and they are wonderful examples of being able to lovingly disagree.

They are definately not hardcore conservatives, their sons are the managers of the Newsboys, and before retiring as a pastor, Mr Campbell co-pastored a church with Michael W. Smith. They do NOT live in commune. Their daughters each live nearby but they have their own homes and separate lives, while their sons live in the general area. Each daughter has their own unique flavour in their home, and each lives in their own way, completely differently than the others. Although the Campbells themselves are non-denominational with a pentecostal leaning the magazines are compilations of articles that many women of various denominations submit and are directed towards encouraging wives and mothers.

Hopefully that helps anyone interested in knowing what Above Rubies is all about :shrug3.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

There is an Angela who signs her name "Angela in VA"

and I sign my name "Angela <><" there as I do everywhere.

I'm usually the one chiming in about home birth or essential oils. LOL!

Angela <><

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

Oh that's surprising because there are a couple midwives (and myself) who regularly chime in with "No - you can try for VBAC after two c-sections" or other such suggestions. Maybe things have changed?

I LOVE the kindred-spirit-ness of "children are a blessing" which I just do NOT GET locally except for two other people in the entire town of Atoka. *rolls eyes*

Angela <><

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

I used to think that it was mildly encouraging while at the same time annoying because I don't believe in WOS. I always had a weird feeling about it, but I would flip through the copies my sister signed me up for. But just recently there was a thread here where some women told of some of the things Nancy said at her conferences and my sister just told me some things she heard from Nancy. Also, the link that was posted above with their discipline ideas sealed the deal for me. I will not read them again.

There are lots of things that I read that I don't agree with 100%. But I only have time for so much reading. I don't care to spend my time reading things that I have a complete 180 degree different opinion about their *fundamental* beliefs, unless I'm trying to learn more about those beliefs. If it was just one thing here or there, sure. But I completely disagree to the point of being morally opposed to a few of their fundamental teachings.

Re: Is "Above Rubies" gothardism/quiverful?
 

ok, i just read that article, and i just have a hard time believing that a child would write a thank you note for a spanking. :hunh

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

i do have to say that their site is one of the only places i've read where they talk about not spanking for childishness or accidents and that they let the child plead extenuating circumstances. they also only recommend one swat. i am NOT defending spanking, but they seem to be way more balanced in what they say than the Pearls, for instance.