Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

The entire thing was about how to discipline your child, just like God disciplines us.....punitively, of course! If we truly love our children we will use words to warn them first, but then if they don't listen, we need to break out the big guns... He told the story of David to illustrate this: He wanted Bathsheba, God let him know that wasn't right in a gentle way. But then he had Uriah essentially murdered and then took her as his wife, so then God was all, 'BOOM! now your baby has to die! Too bad so sad!' because His love for David was so great and God could not bear to let David be so unholy. And then after this, David became the man God wanted Him to be and had 'a heart like His'. And don't we all want children who have hearts like God's? Don't we all want them to be holy? Then we need to remember that God parents us with a 'holy whip' when we fail to hear his plainly spoken instruction to us. If we aren't acting in the same manner with our children, then we are remiss as parents and our children will suffer.

Then the old 'the parent who doesn't (physically) discipline their child hates him/her', 'backed up' by two or three verses which I was too upset to read up on the screen. And then the whole 'Now I'm not going to tell you to spank your child or not spank your child.... but I *do* spank mine .....You do as you see fit' thing. So, in other words, ' GODLY PARENTS HIT THEIR CHILDREN.'

He did encourage the use of 'words' to move our children towards right behavior in the beginning stages, but to not be afraid to administer discipline when our words aren't heeded. And several times he pleaded with us to go look at focusonthefamily.com because they have 'amazing resources!' on spanking and parenting in a Godly way.

It was the laziest, most shallow, inaccurate, and angering sermon I've ever heard. I am so upset.... we just started attending there about a month ago and DS1 is absolutely loving it, and really learning so much in Children's Church there; really good stuff. We are really seeing God work in his little heart and the church has been such a blessing thus far. This was the first time we had heard the Associate Pastor preach this morning; the two other men we've heard preach there a few times have been great. They definitely have NOT pointed to a theology the likes of what we heard this morning. And really, I understand that there are people who think like this in almost every church, and that we're not likely to find a place where everyone parents like we strive to. But to declare this kind of parenting from the pulpit, essentially declaring this as this church's official position on parenting? This just makes me incredibly upset. DH is so disappointed too....we really thought we'd landed at the right place finally.

Is it even worth it to write a letter? To go talk to them? It's a larger church, and we've been there about a month.Thoughts, ladies?

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

I am sorry, I have heard those sermons too many times. I am so burnt out on church. I am tired of the judgment of others that do not see things their way. :hugheart

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

I wouldn't even bother. I'd just leave. When asked (if asked) I'd be honest , "I'm coming from a completely different place spiritually speaking. I'm not comfortable with the punitive sermons."

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

:hug I'm so sorry you had that experience.

I've been in similar, thought milder, sermons, and I walk out if they start going down that path. Honestly, I have also stopped attending those places. I drive 30 minutes to church, but it's to a place where grace is preached for all. It's worth double the gas money for me to not have to sit through a triggering sermon, or to be part of a body that advocates harming children.

I am sure you'll get wise words from other mamas.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

Because you have only been there a month, I would just move on. It's nice to discover this evidence of a very bad fit before you put down significant roots.

In only one month of attending, it's not a good sign that you have already experienced "the laziest, most shallow, inaccurate, and angering sermon" you've ever heard. The topic is secondary--in this case you happen to know something about the subject matter and you recognize the pastor has been shallow and inaccurate. Is it likely that he handles other topics with careful biblical exegesis and appropriate caution when it comes to suggesting personal applications?

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

I'd be making an appointment with the head pastor and asking about the stance and explaining things from here.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

I'd leave. And thank God that you found out how bad it was before you were more heavily involved.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

Well, realistically, on the one hand, you are right that you aren't going to find a church where every single person exactly lines up with your method of parenting. You say that they have a good program for the kids, and it would be sad if you travel from church to church to find one that matches up with your parenting ideals but may not have a very good program for the kids. :think

On the other hand, I understand your wanting to protect your child from punitive influences, so it might be worth talking to this morning's speaker on the issue. :think

At the end of the day, your child is your child and you are free to parent in whatever fashion you think is best. :yes

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

Because this is the associate pastor and the others are so great--and the rest of the church seems such a potentially good fit, I would try to make an appointment with the Sr. Pastor to discuss this. It's quite possible he didn't even know what the assoc. pastor would be speaking on.

At the very least, you will know if there is potential or not :heart

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

This. And there are always ways of finding out who's preaching that Sunday...

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

We love our church but regularly skip visiting pastor sermons (once a month our pastor visits a congregation semi near us and their pastor visits us). DH and I decided this after a particularly shaming, punitive sermon.

I would talk to the Sr Pastor, figure out the church's stance. If it works for you, keep attending but avoid assoc pastor's sermons.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

it breaks my heart to hear about church's pushing this way of parenting. if that's the way the majority of people do parenting there it would probably be enough to make me leave. speaking to the sr. pastor is a great idea. it's so hard to find the right church for you family but that is one thing i personally would not put up with in a church family.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

:( I agree with talking to the senior pastor.

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

It might be worth a letter or meeting to tell the pastor (senior pastor) what things initially drew you to the church and what is now driving you away. And if I were feeling really brave, I'd probably ask if the senior pastor was aware of the sermon content prior to the service. That might help in decision making about staying.
And, this is just a personal opinion, I'm really not sure that David and Bathsheba thing readily relates to parenting styles/choices.:shrug3

Re: Today's sermon = ICKY ICKY ICKY
 

Especially since he got the story wrong:doh

Even if you don't continue at this church, it would be a huge service to them to have his kind of thing challenged AND for them to know that opinons that are preached have an impact on who is or is not willing to stay and take the bad with the good.