Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

Bolding mine- oh my goodness! I literally became sick to my stomach reading that!
:sick2:sick2:sick2:sick2

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

:yuck

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

read part of the article. Gross! And what the heck is "Selfish Love"?

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

Thank you Elizabeth!

I am very grateful to have found this forum! It has been extremely helpful and encouraging.

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

I am so sorry:(! While I was typing this my 13 year old son walked in the room to ask me a question and I just looked at him and thanked God over and over that I didn't follow her advice. He is just such a wonderful, caring young man & the thought of all of this makes my stomach turn.

And not just her quote makes me sick, but also the fact that I was in her home once and saw first hand what she did. I will spare the details, but I grabbed my son and left ASAP. I still regret not calling CPS. I can't get over it, but I have been compelled to get involved in getting the word out about what people are doing in the name of Jesus.

In that booklet one of the most disturbing events mentioned was getting a baby/toddler up in the middle of the night to spank/beat him because they forgot that he was naughty the day before and didn't obey God by disciplining him. And the booklet taught that children should be spanked every time they forget something too. :hunh:mad:sick

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

It can be disheartening how often it's misunderstood. Despite being raised in a Christian family and going to church (named Grace Community Bible Church, ironically) every week, I had no concept of what grace really was was until I was in my 30's. Surprisingly, my pastor said the same thing to me recently. He was in seminary when he had the realization.

I suppose I shouldn't be so surprised when this model of punitive parenting is pushed so often in churches. When I think about it, the good behavior=reward, bad behavior=punishment thing is so foundational to being human. It's a hard concept to give up, because it's something by which we can measure ourselves.

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

You know, that is SO TRUE. We just have this deep desire to prove ourselves, I guess... To be GOOD enough, to do SOMETHING that makes us feel righteous and for God to love us....

I also go to a church named Grace Baptist Church that is reformed baptist (and yes, the woman that posted the link goes to a reformed baptist church, too, as do all of our mutual friends *sigh*) and it just frustrates me to no end when I hear all about grace, grace, grace, but when we talk about our children? Well, no mercy can be shown because "God commands us to use the rod."

:(

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

I think it's also a bit of a survival mechanism - to prove that I'm better than the next guy so that I can claw my way to the top to get the prize - survival of the fittest and all.

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

A few years ago, I had to stand up to the (pretty new) assistant pastor at my church who was considering allowing SACH to be studied in the parenting class (he wasn't an advocate of it, but someone else who was wanted it to be studied). One point I made was that our parenting study was called 'Grace at Home,' and I didn't see how SACH could possibly be studied then as it shows children no grace. His response..."well, that's just the title of the study..." (implication, we don't really mean it...) :no

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

So, when the parents forget to discipline their child, who spanks them? :shifty

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

Surprisingly, Dobson *does* mention this book in one of his books (The Strong Willed Child or Dare to Discipline I believe) and uses the example mentioned above about waking the child in the middle of the night. Dobson was very negative on this book and adamant that these authors were way over the top. This is what convinced *me* to not get this book when offered it by a church member I respected a few years later. Thank goodness!

IN Christ,
Joy

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

I thought the same thing when I read the booklet. The author Pat even talks about her own forgetfulness as well and how God disciplined her for it (maybe made her feel bad- I don't quite remember). She said she forgot to spank her daughter when her daughter forgot to put her shoes on (which she says her daughter was singing and joyfully waiting for the rod). :cry

I just don't comprehend her logic at all- my kids and I forget stuff all the time- that's just being human! Crazy!:scratch

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

I've read that before -- and I was so mad I was spitting nails afterward. :mad

The author also very clearly states that Proverbs 22:6 is a promise.:no2

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

We had been excited to visit a particular church, and went out of our way on our vacation to be able to do so. When I walked into the sanctuary I had a sense of heaviness, though. The men were hale and hearty, but the women and children...were depressed and oppressed.

Children sat in service very quietly but when a toddler near us began to fuss the tiniest bit, her fuss turned to a sound of quiet fear as her father carried her out of the sanctuary. My heart sank and my stomach turned.

As we left I saw that pamphlet on a table in the foyer and knew that my instincts about what was going on in that room were correct.

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

:jawdropI can not even believe this happens.......I swatted my daughters hand and sobbed right along with her, I apologized, but I still felt like such a failure:( I can not even fathom how people can think that this is what God wants. How could that even come to mind.....Do these mothers get beat by their husbands too???

Re: "Under Loving Command"
 

I ahave avoided reading it for that reason.....I am certain I have read it before, & it is so horrible.