Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Does it help prevent spread of sickness?

I thought I had recently read an article that said it doesn't work very well and soap is a lot better. But DH says that he heard on the radio that they tested peoples hands after washing with soap and they had all kinds of bacteria on there.

Someone settle this for me. :P~

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Soap is still better, but when you can't get to the sink, hand sanitizer helps.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I use both. :bag I wash, then use sanitizer, then some lotion cuz my skin is *so* dry!

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Quit using the sanitizer, and you might not need the lotion anymore. :giggle

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I sanitize, then wash and then use lotion.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Washing hands, when done correctly (which most people don't do)...the whole lather up, 15-30 seconds of FRICTION...not just barely rubbing the soap on...is more effective than hand sanitizer.

BUT, I think HS has its place...like when you are in a public place, and have to touch doors or use pens, etc. and don't have access to a sink.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Hand sanitizer kills germs on non-porous surfaces which hands are not, obviously. On hands, it kills some germs but many of the viruses that cause colds and gi illnesses are not affected *at all* by hand sanitizer. It is drying which can cause tiny cracks in the skin, an open doorway for pathogens. Hand sanitizer was initially promoted for health care workers who wash their hands multiples times an hour anyway. If you google "hand sanitizer effectivness" and ignore the commercial sites that are selling it, you'll find lots of mainstream articles stating that it doesn't prevent infection. Anti-bac soaps don't either. Another thing to remember is w/ h/s you have dead pathogens on your skin--they don't get rinsed away. Some pathogens are just as toxic when dead--when they die they spill their cellular contents and can make you sick.

So, obviously I don't think it's worthwhile at all. :shrug. I do like wipes to use on shopping carts during flu season--the cart is a non-porous surface and the wiping action will remove much of the crud that's on there.
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Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Even in light of Lisa's post, I like having it on hand during this season since it is better than nothing, afaik, when we're in public places touching lots of things everyone touches. I use it to wipe stuff down, too, like the cart or a table.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

If the hand sanitizers main mechanism of action (which all are not) is ethanol, then I disagree with LisaM. Ethanol, by its very nature...and why it is used in aseptic cell culture labs on both porous and non-porous surfaces...lyses cell walls and viral coats(which kills bacteria and viruses) as it evaporates. :shrug

That being said...most of the lotion and newer brands of hand sanitizers out are not using ethanol as their main ingredient anymore, so I cannot support that mechanism of action...but what we have on hand for quick moments is ethanol gel...and it absolutely does work to kill germs (porous or non-porous surface). :yes

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I think proper hand washing is the best thing. But hand sanitizer is at least something when I'm out and no where near a sink.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

For -some- cell types and virus, it does that. But not all. Which is how Simon wound up with c. diff. in the hospital. The only prevention for c. diff. transmission is soap and water handwashing. You have to rinse it off. You cannot kill it with hand sanitizer. The nurses at his hospital do not have convenient access to sinks, so they rely on hand sanitizer. The c. diff. bacterium forms a shell that makes it immune, in a way that fungi more commonly do. And attacking it does make it release toxins, which what makes it so incredibly toxic during/after a round of antibiotics.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

yes, this is definitely an issue.

however, for those that are saying that hand sanitizer is bad...do you think it is better to just NOT wash for an hour or 2 if there is no sink/soap around...

or do you think that the fact that a hand sanitizer (especially ethanol based) is still better than nothing in those cases?

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I keep it on hand and we use it when we can't wash hands. Like after we've been shopping. The kids (especially our son) tend to rub their faces and pick their noses. I'd rather use sanitizer (alcohol based, not anti-bacterial) than nag them to keep their hands away from their faces the whole way home. I also use it after they grab a railaing or something while we're out.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Exactly - Ajani.

I would say this:

1) Yes, hand washing CORRECTLY is that gold standard for preventing disease spread. Period.

2) Handwashing is done incorrectly and inconsistently by a large portion of the population.

3) handwashing is not available in all situations.

4) Because of points 2 and 3 - hand sanitizer (especially ethanol-based) is an excellent substitute for those situations. yes, there are a very small percentage of germs that are not completely wiped out by ethanol. yes, there will be a small amount of toxin released from some bacteria when they are lysed by the sanitizer. However, that is still WAY better than those germs entering the body, replicating, and THEN releasing MORE of the toxin when our body's defense systems kill them.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Our preference is plain old soap, not anti-bacterial, and warm water. When that isn't an option like at the playground before snack time or while we are in the car after someone blows their nose we will use hand sanitizer.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I keep hand sanitizer around for two situations. One, when the water goes out and killing some germs seems a preferable alternative to keeping them all. The other is when we've got a bug going around the house. We use sanitizer and then wash with soap and water (that way the living and the dead get washed away ;) ).

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

For ME the question applies to when I have both options because he bought some hand sanitizer to use at home.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Oh, that one is easy...hand washing is FAR, FAR superior to any form of hand sanitizer.

BUT...it is very, very important to do it properly. Soap that lathers or foams, and 15-30 seconds at least of vigorous friction.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

So DH didn't hear it on the radio, they demonstrated at some kind of work thing....

Any information (links, and not to someone quacky or too crunchy) to refute that?

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

We use Lavender oil. A few drops on everyone's hands and rub. (That's if we can't get to a sink/soap). :) I do keep HS in the van for Hubby (or if I can't find my oil) because he doesn't like the smell of lavender. ;)

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

If you rub soap on your hands, it won't kill anything. If you rub sanitizer on your hands, it will.

But if you wash your hands under running water, you'll rinse everything off.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Does this help any?
http://biology.about.com/od/microbio...sanitizers.htm

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...k-a-3rd-grader

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Doctors / Nurses / Health professionals use it after and before each appointment - It's hanging in the rooms near the door ...
It makes me feel comfortable when they use it .... If they didn't, I would notice.
So when I know I'm in contact with alot of people, I use it.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

We use hand sanitizer then follow up with a baby wipe when we are out in public without a sink.
Usually, when we have been shopping or something, I take my kids to the bathroom to wash their hands then I don't let them touch anything until we get to the van, then we use hand sanitzer and then a baby wipe. :giggle

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Hand...ashingTips.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/HandWashing/

Would straight from the mouth of the CDC help him believe! ;)

From the 1st link:



---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

Granted, it is talking about cruise ship sanitation in the 1st link...but clearly,the information is pretty basic - cruise or not.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

What we do:

HOME: Hand washing only, with regular soap and water (no anti-bac)

OUT: Hand sanitizer galore as frequently as needed both on hands and surfaces, then we hit the bathroom before we leave, to wash in the sink with soap and water (paper towel to turn sink off/on). I am always surprised how many people don't take advantage of the store bathroom sinks for this before leaving or eating (like at the bookstore cafe, mall, etc.). I don't know a child who doesn't touch some part of their face once buckled in on the drive home.

I try to keep as many germs out of our van and home as possible, and if I can leave them behind in the store drain, all the better. :lol Back at home, the first thing everyone does is take shoes off (I keep a red bin by the garage entrance door, shoes are MUCH easier to find this way, too) and wash hands again. If my hubby has been at a hospital (as he sometimes is for work), he knows to strip at the laundry room before entering the rest of the house.

We generally always change into "house" clothes and put whatever we were wearing out, into the laundry right away. I think of dd sitting in grocery cart seats, the kids on the floor at the library, on outdoor benches at the park (think bird poop), etc. I don't want that junk filtering off into my house/furniture/etc.

I also clean with tto (great to add a few drops to regular liquid soap for a natural disinfectant) and diffuse lavendar/peppermint and Theive's Oil in the house every day. :)

My family and friends think I am kooky extreme with germs, but I don't care. We are sick a WHOLE lot less than anyone else we know.

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Oh yeah, we also don't touch public door handles. We use the dry-off towel or some tp to open bathroom doors if needed, mostly we use our tushies to open doors whenever possible. If not, an adult opens the door and uses hand sanitizer immediately afterward.

I am also the freaky mom who sanitizes restaurant tables and high chairs before anyone can sit down. I love the looks that gets me! :lol

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

We have a bottle of organic lavender alcohol spray in our diaper bag. :yes

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Lavender oil on the go, why didn't I think of that?! :doh What a brilliant idea! Do you use straight 100% pure EO or is it diluted? :popcorn How sad it is that I'm excited about this! :lol

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Did you make it or buy it? Can I get a recipe or a link?

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I actually purchased mine from my LHFS. :tu

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

Mine is similar to this, but I dont think it has Echinacea in it.

http://www.eoproducts.com/Products/S...AY-prd-33.aspx

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

This looks like the one I have.

http://www.amazon.com/Products-Sanit.../dp/B001GQN9HI

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Whole Foods sells several types of hand sanitizers - some with lavender, some with other oils. I've been using Clean Well - there's no alcohol in it. I'm afraid my littles will put their hands in their mouths and eat the alcohol before it can evaporate, so I bought this. The oils are in an aloe gel base, so it doesn't dry my skin out either. We use baby wipes and sanitizer, too when we go out, or sanitizing wipes.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

Maybe I should experiment with making aloe gel. We're overrun with aloe plants. I wonder how one would go about that. :think

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

:ty4 That product also shows other "flavors" :giggle - peppermint and eucalyptus. I use them at home but never thought about them in a carry-n-go product!


Exactly what I was thinking! I'm thinking a base of alcohol with aloe for softening (pure aloe is sticky), and generous amounts of lavendar, peppermint and eucalyptus/tto. :D

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I am anti-hand sanitizer because it kills the good germs with the bad germs..plus it is not anti-viral, so what good is it IMO:shrug3

I make our own with EOs that are both anti-viral, bacterial and anti-septic. With a vinegar, peroxide base it has more disinfecting power than bleach.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/21/he...cons.html?_r=1 This is a pro-hand sanitizer link. Which I find rather amusing, since why would you want to use h/s unless there was dirt, blood, feces, or body fluids involved? :scratch

and

both from http://biology.about.com/od/microbio...sanitizers.htm

This is regarding anti-bac soap as long as we're on the topic of hand washing:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hand-washing/HQ00407

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

As far as what we do when soap and water is not available, we wait until we get to a sink. :shrug This is has been what we have done forever and my kids have never needed antibiotics or a prescription of any kind, ever. Even when my dh was immunocompromised, we didn't buy hand sanitizer or anti-bac soap. I researched it thoroughly at the time. Before I flushed his PIC line I washed my hands for 2 minutes w/ hot soapy water.

If you are exposed to the flu, it will likely be aerosol, from a sneeze or cough, not necessarily from hand touching. I don't see being overly zealous about sanitizing hands *in normal activities* as a way to prevent the flu. If I was a healthcare worker and around sick people alot, I would wash my hands more often, not use h/s. We wash our hands thoroughly whenever we get home and before we eat. I wash my hands after changing diapers. If I'm out, I use a baby wipe to wipe my hands off.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I also do not like to use it for this same reason. But I WILL use the spray I linked to above when I absolutely need to. :yes Like, when dh has been running his hands up and down the rails at the mall before we get in the car. :sick

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

I'll explain why we don't do this.

If someone has to use the toilet we obviously use the sink and soap provided and wash hands.

If we have just been in the store, museum, etc. and have not used the toilet we do not wash our hands until we get home.

We have made extraordinary efforts to reduce our exposure to chemicals because of our personal experiences. My dh almost died from an autoimmune disease that is almost always caused by chemical exposure. I am NOT saying that washing your hands w/ conventional, chemical-laden soaps will give you PNH or aplastic anemia :no but that our philosophy of health does not include avoiding as many "germs" as possible at the expense of exposing ourselves to chemicals. The soaps in the stores have parabens, synthetic fragrances, synthetic dyes, and are generally a whole cocktail of things that I do not want near my body. When I do have to wash my hands in public I simply cannot wait to get home and scrub that awful "fragrance" off myself! :sick2

If I had to choose between a few more acute illnesses per year like colds or flu versus exposing my family to chemicals on a regular basis that, over time, will lead to chronic illness, I choose the acute illnesses. As it turns out, it's been a win-win for both.

As soon as I found out I was pregnant w/ my first, I threw out all the anti-bac soaps in our house. As she got older, I replaced all my "disinfecting" cleaning supplies w/ more natural versions. Our diets have changed drastically. Nothing in our house has synthetic fragrances or colors. We have been sick LESS often because, we believe, our bodies are not taxed w/ trying to constantly detoxify from chemicals at the same time it is fighting off pathogens.

My kids get 1-2 colds per year and typically get one fever per year. They've never needed an Rx for anything or even a doctor visit for an acute illness (when Gracie was little I did take her a few times just to be told what I already knew--rest and fluids. Oh and one time I took her in for croup but never filled the Rx's and treated her myself. She was completely better in 24 hours.) Dh and I rarely get sick even though I'm in close intimate contact w/ my kids when they're sick.

I don't disinfect my home, I clean it to remove dirt and oils where "germs" can cling. We don't wear shoes in the house either because that just seems like kicking myself to make it harder to clean.

We believe our immune systems were designed to fight off pathogens and that we NEED exposure to pathogens so that the immune system can do it's job. My dh's white cell counts are still not in the normal range but he's not on any restrictions and he even rarely get sick. Master Tonic and vit d seem to support his system enough so that even w/ diminished white cell count his body is doing it's job.

Based on my dh's experience, I think he would throw a fit if he saw me using all those soaps in the stores. :lol

Anyway, I'm not selling anything :wink and I do understand there's another perspective but wanted to share ours. :)

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

When soap and water are not available I use alcohol based sanitizer wipes. But I will still wash as soon as soap and water are available even after using sanitizer.

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

lisa, i would to hear more about how you transitioned to the no chemicals/fragrances/colors. also about how you clean your house vs. disinfect it.

i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out. :lol but my dd is rarely sick and has only been on one antibiotic in her life. :shrug3 i recently bought some hand sanitizer only b/c all the swine flu stuff made me paranoid, but i guess i'll toss it now. :)

Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?
 

We are so rarely sick and with 6 dc, I think in the last 10 years, we have had antibiotics in our house *maybe* 3 times? So I am not nearly as vigilant as I should be about germs, but still take hand-washing and such seriously. I am just not as avid about it as I should be.