Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

I Just read a blog where the woman says her life has been changed by several parenting books. She named sheparding a child's heart (and welchel's creative correction) AND families where grace is in place.

How can you be changed by both ends of the spectrum? Legalism AND grace? Is it not one or the other? Pondering this. :scratch

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

It is so hard to understand how people can "get it" without actually getting it :-/

Families Where Grace Is in Place is not a "how to" book- it's a frame of mind. SACH I've heard here (but haven't personally read) has some great connection stuff before it throws in all the garbage of the connection coming through spanking :sick. So my guess is the person is taking the good from Families Where Grace is in Place and then thinking they are implementing it ala SACH.

Sad, sad, sad :cry :mutter

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

Ted Tripp is an interesting character, because he really does seem to have a good grasp on grace, IF he could get out of his head that spanking is a biblical command. :sigh

He seems to know there's a disconnect too, because on his videos he says repeatedly that he tells his kids he doesn't understand the connection between the heart and the rear end, but God is the one that designed it that way, so who is he to question? Ugh... I really think he would be GBD if he could get that idea out of his head.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

A good bit of SACH does focus on relationship and the underlying reasons for behavior. Likewise, Creative Correction seems to look for alternative discipline solutions that don't cause as much pain.

However, until someone's mindset is changed into understanding what grace is and how it works, they can only move toward less punitive instead of truly graceful. That's why this is a spiritual journey - it's not about not spanking, but having our minds and lives transformed by the grace of God. :)

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

This.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

That's what I've thought, too.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

I've heard a SACH-follower describe it as grace-based and he described his ways as choosing when to apply grace.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

People who spank don't see spanking as grace-less. They actually see it as God's grace to the child that they have parents who love them enough to raise them according to God's standards and design.

Also, like others have said, there really is some good stuff in SACH. If all a Christian has ever seen, been taught, and believed is that spanking is what the Bible commands, then that person will LOVE SACH and will not at all see it in conflict with FWGIIP.

This comes from many conversations with dear Christian friends who spank and love SACH.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

Also, lots of people can read books with two conflicting approaches and try to find their own path by picking and choosing what works for them. I did that with Dr. Sears The Baby Book and Goodnight, Sleep Tight. Both advocated gentle, responsive nighttime parenting. One was pro-cosleeping and the other was pro-crib. I was able to read them both and create a middle way, a method that got OUR family the most sleep without doing CIO.

I could see doing that with discipline books as well.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

That makes sense. I grew up around the idea that spanking was just how things are. I can see how a book that talks as much about grace as is possible without quite breaking past the spanking barrier would seem to be unquestionably as much of a graceful approach as can exist since you wouldn't even be seeing spanking as a problem.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

For many it's the mommy filter. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had over the years with Ezzo supporters and when you ask them to defend x statement, they claim he never said/wrote that. When you provide page numbers they are often shocked. THAT is one of the reasons when we discuss Ezzo and his crew here in Unprepared, we talk about what they wrote/said, not what anyone did with the information.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

This is probably not a good example, but I like many different types of music. Worship: Hillsong, Steven Curtis Chapman, etc. all the way to Dixie Chicks. If you line the music up side by side they may not seem to relate and even be contradicting, but they bring something different to me and I take certain things away from each one and find enjoyment.

I think each is on the journey and the Lord is guiding us and speaking to each of us to lead us closer to Him in all parts of our life. I don't really see these books at opposite ends and polar opposites, just different steps on the way. :twocents

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

That explains a lot. I have wondered how people can rave about How to Really Love Your Child and Love Languages and still think spanking is a good tool.

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

So want to agree with you, but.... can't quite get there... The problem is that on one side you have Whelch and Tripp teaching in the end that your children are the enemy and that you 'must win' and in the battle it is acceptable to not only physical force, but chemical warfare ('hot saucing' is horrific). Yes, they write a lot about 'their heart' being important and all of that, but in the end, when thought become action, the outward expression and appearence become paramount - the 'happy is the only acceptable emotion', even after someone four times your size physically dominates you and purposefully inflicts pain. It means all the words of grace are meaningless if they don't come to fruit in action. I am always shocked at the level of discussion about grace, love and the gospel and then the spiritual twist that comes to negate it all when it comes to children by these authors.

So while they may not be polar opposites, they stand on different banks of a very big divide between punitive parenting and grace based parenting. Are the children the enemy or are they fellow Christians on a journey that I have been blessed to guide them on?

Re: Families where grace is in place & SACH
 

Well, we don't have to agree, do we? Thanks for your opinion. I'm still on a journey also.