Substituting whole wheat in muffins?

[twoplustwo]

So I have successfully substituted whole wheat (partial) in quick breads and pancakes.

I made 2 batches of muffins today for snacks.
The recipe I like you really fill the cups and mound the top before baking so you end up with those tall muffins with a nice muffin top.
I substituted a little whole wheat in my muffin recipe and the muffin top is really flat - is the due to the whole wheat?

And if yes can I do something in the future to use both some whole wheat flour and make my muffins nice and fat and rounded rather than a flat muffin top?

The coconut chocolate ones are done and we all tried them and very pleased with the flavor - so it's really just an aesthetic thing for me.
The vanilla blueberry are cooling so hopefully those taste just as good.

[knitlove]

Have you done this recipe before and know that the leavening makes the full rounded tops?

Whole wheat is 'heaver' I know some all whole wheat quick breads have more baking powder ( or mix of baking powder and baking soda) to creat more lift.

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[domesticzookeeper]

With breads you often need to add more water if you're using whole wheat (it holds on to more liquid than AP flour does). I wonder if that would make a difference for your muffins' density and rise :think

[twoplustwo]

Have you done this recipe before and know that the leavening makes the full rounded tops?

Whole wheat is 'heaver' I know some all whole wheat quick breads have more baking powder ( or mix of baking powder and baking soda) to creat more lift.

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Yes, it makes giant rounded professional looking muffins normally when I have made them.

With breads you often need to add more water if you're using whole wheat (it holds on to more liquid than AP flour does). I wonder if that would make a difference for your muffins' density and rise :think

:think

I could do more baking powder / soda. the recipe already calls for 4 tsp of one and 1/2 of the other for 12 muffins. Soda I think is the 4. So that may be why they are so rounded up before the whole wheat got involved.

I can also add more water if needed. they were really moist though.

Also we tried the blueberry/vanilla and there is nothing lacking in taste. I mean they taste slightly healthier but they still taste really good. But I was going more for snack than treat.

I also froze 6 of them to see if they freeze and defrost well.

eta: did I already mentioned I also reduced the sugar a little bit?

[knitlove]

I might try ( and this is purely off of memory I haven't baked with wheat flour in almost 8 years) adjuating the ratio of baking soda to baking powder ( and proportionally you need more powder to soda for the same amount of lift) It could be that some of the air escaped because it developed faster than the whole what flour could hydrate and have enough connectivity to hold it in. Powder will provide lift slower and a tiny bit later in the baking.

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[bec28]

Could you share the recipes please? :)

[twoplustwo]

Could you share the recipes please? :)

Yes, its so good. and its a base recipe that you can add different flavorings too. so I made 2 batches and just did different flavors. Im hoping they freeze well.

I put my recipe book back up but Ill get it and post when I come back.

[Quiteria]

I know that one of my heavy recipes...blueberry...whipped the egg whites to add lift beyond the leavening. Don't think it was whole wheat, though, and it was an extra step...but it did help lift the blueberries, so might work if it feels worth the bother to you.

[twoplustwo]

I know that one of my heavy recipes...blueberry...whipped the egg whites to add lift beyond the leavening. Don't think it was whole wheat, though, and it was an extra step...but it did help lift the blueberries, so might work if it feels worth the bother to you.

The blueberries ones did seem a little flatter than the coconut/chocolate chips ones. And I did put in extra blueberries so I may have doulbe done it there.

As for the recipe . . . I tried to find it online but failed (hopefully to find the magazine) . . . but anyway, its from a magazine February/March 2006 - so before ds was even born!
I don't the name of the magazine was "cooking without recipes" or just the title of the section the muffins are in.

Anyway, Im up early and have it out so Ill type it out tomorrow am while my home is asleep.

[twoplustwo]

Ok, the recipe:

Page 1:
*room temperature ingredients are key* (<-- the whole first page is about these muffins, tips you should use and 6 great flavor pairings, you are only getting that one tip bc I dont want to type out the whole page, maybe if you ask Ill add the 6 great flavor pairings they suggest. :shifty)

PAGE 2:
pre-heat 350F
lightly oi, spray with cooking spray or line with paper cups 12 inch muffin pan

1 lb (3.5 cups) unbleached all purpose flour
4 t. baking powder
1/2 t. baking soda
1/2 t. table salt
1 1/3 granulated sugar
5 oz (10 T) unsalted butter, melted and cooled slightly
1 C whole milk
1 cup creme fraiche or sour cream, at room temperature (t2t uses sour cream bc she doesn't know what creme whatever is)
2 large eggs, at room temp
1 large egg yol, at room temp

(t = teaspoon; T = tablespoon)

In large mixing bowl, sift flour, baking powder, baking soda, and salt' mix well
In medium mixing bowl whisk together sugar, butter, milk, creme thing or sour cream, eggs, and egg yolk until well combined.
Pour wet into dry and fold until moistened (dry streaks ok, and batter will be lumpy)

Choose add-ins:
Flavorings (choose 1 or 2)
almond extract 1/2 t
ground cinnamon 3/4 t
coconut 3/4 c dried, sweetened
crystallized ginger 1/3 cup finely chopped
ground ginger 3/4 t
lemon zest 2 t, finely grated
orange zest 2 t, finely grated
vanilla extract 1 t.
fruit & chocolate (choose 1 or 2, 1.5 cups combined) - they have all kinds of add'l details that I am going to leave out (like thinly slice, coarsely chopped, fresh, etc for time sake, if you want to know a specific one, lmk): apricot, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, granny smith apples, peaches, pears, pineapple, raspberries, chocolate chips
nuts (optional) pecan, sliced almonds, toasted, walnut pieces

PAGE 3:
fill the tin - overfill tins by about a 3/4 inch mound. Bake until golden brown and spring back lightly about 30-35 min.
Make the glaze 12 1/2 oz (3 cups) confections sugar
one of the flavors:
plain - 6 T water
Maple - 1 C pure maple
Lemon - 6 T fresh lemon juice
Orange - 6 T fresh orange juice
Pineapple - 6 T pineapple juice
Cinnamon - 6 T water, 1.4 t gr. cinnamon
Ginger - 6 T water, 1.4 t ground ginger

should drip off spoon, add 1 T water at a time if needed.

When muffins cooled down but still warm coat with glaze - wait 20-30 to dry (won't dry completely).

I have to say FOR ME - it's way too much glaze. Yesterday I did the plain glaze 1 batch for 2 batches of muffins and still had some left over. The coconut / chocolate I barely drizzled and honestly would have been great plain. The blueberry did need the drizzle and I regular drizzled and they were perfect.

:phew LMK if you have questions.

[twoplustwo]

UPDATE: All 24 muffins are eaten. 24 GIANT muffins as snacks. I know crazy. :crazy

2 muffins by the 4 of us for tasters. 1 by dh. No more by me. Thats 21 by ds and ravenous monster ds. Today ds ate 6 and its only the afternoon. He had for breakfast 1 banana, a variety of berries, a 2 egg vegetable omelet and 2 muffins. Clementines & apple between breakfast and lunch. Lunch was a large salad and put fillers like nuts in there and chicken noodle soup I made yesterday. And let me tell you - the chicken noodle soup is PACKED full of egg noodles and chicken so its HEARTY for him. Then 4 more muffins and an apple for snack 2.5 hours after lunch because he is "starving".

So I made 24 more GIANT Muffins today. (Lemon Cranberry and cinnamon white chocolate chip <-- using up ingredients I have).

So I reduced the whole wheat to just 1.3 of a cup. Not sure if that is enough to make a health difference but they puffed up very nicely. Not sure if I will try and do more whole wheat and see where the line next time or stay here.

I did a little less sugar as usual.

But the big change is I used up all my sour cream on the last run, but had exactly 2 cups left of cottage cheese from the lasagnas I made last week so I substituted that (with 4 T of milk and some lemon juice - which I was already juicing) and there is not taste difference. And I like that the cottage cheese is healthier (per the online article who said how to substitute sour cream). I may alternate on that based on what other foods I am making.

Next week I will get pineapple and use more of the coconut I have on hand and another TBD flavor.

[knitlove]

I would love to see a picture of your giant muffins

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[twoplustwo]

I would love to see a picture of your giant muffins

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Oh yes, they turned out very pretty this time.

I sent the prettiest ones to a neighbor (the mom had a stroke, the dad is still there and adult dd - but by adult I mean 18 or 19. Just graduated HS last year). But I bet I still have some good looking ones left. Tomorrow.

[twoplustwo]

Next to cans for size perspective.

Cinnamon:

https://i.postimg.cc/McvM4Cwp/20200417-080709.jpg (https://postimg.cc/McvM4Cwp)

Lemon Cranberry:

https://i.postimg.cc/4HTYYn9Y/20200417-080719.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4HTYYn9Y)

[knitlove]

How do you get them out oof the pan with the top intact?

If my muffins ever spill.over on to the flat of the muffin tin they are doomed to be broken and misshapen because I can't get them out.

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[twoplustwo]

How do you get them out oof the pan with the top intact?

If my muffins ever spill.over on to the flat of the muffin tin they are doomed to be broken and misshapen because I can't get them out.

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IDK, they just come out. :shrug3

I use paper muffin cups rather than oil or spray.
I DO wait until they are cool, I mean they are still warm but wait at least 20 minutes before I attempt.
They tend to grow together - so I do use a knife (butter) to slice between muffins so they are all separate before I remove them.
I remove them before I glaze them.
I put the knife under the muffin top first.
Then they just pop right out with a knife (butter). I do go slowly.

The only time I had a top rip off is if I get impatient and try to remove them too soon. 15 minutes is too soon for sure. :shifty

There are lots of mentions in the instructions of fold not mix, do not overmix etc. Maybe it all binds together if you don't mix them too much? I have no idea . . . I just follow the directions and it works out. I am not a natural baker I never baked before becoming a mother. Growing up we did store bought cakes (from the sara lee . . . whats it called. . . discount place?) or from a box and cookies from a tube. I DO enjoy baking though. I am hoping now that I am back in the routine (did it A LOT more when the kids were younger) - I keep it up for snack foods for the ravenous monsters my precious teenagers.

[ViolaMum]

That's huge! Looks good, too.

I had a couple of thoughts about the whole wheat flour. Whole wheat takes longer to absorb moisture, so if you wanted to try increasing the percentage, you could let the batter sit for 20 minutes before portioning and baking. Add an extra tablespoon or two of milk and see if that increases the rise.

[twoplustwo]

That's huge! Looks good, too.

I had a couple of thoughts about the whole wheat flour. Whole wheat takes longer to absorb moisture, so if you wanted to try increasing the percentage, you could let the batter sit for 20 minutes before portioning and baking. Add an extra tablespoon or two of milk and see if that increases the rise.

I will try that with the next round (ds ate 2 with his berries, banana, 2 egg omelet again today) so I am sure it won't be long before we need more AND he grows another inch.

Thanks.

[ViolaMum]

IDK, they just come out. :shrug3

I use paper muffin cups rather than oil or spray.
I DO wait until they are cool, I mean they are still warm but wait at least 20 minutes before I attempt.
They tend to grow together - so I do use a knife (butter) to slice between muffins so they are all separate before I remove them.
I remove them before I glaze them.
I put the knife under the muffin top first.
Then they just pop right out with a knife (butter). I do go slowly.

The only time I had a top rip off is if I get impatient and try to remove them too soon. 15 minutes is too soon for sure. :shifty

There are lots of mentions in the instructions of fold not mix, do not overmix etc. Maybe it all binds together if you don't mix them too much? I have no idea . . . I just follow the directions and it works out. I am not a natural baker I never baked before becoming a mother. Growing up we did store bought cakes (from the sara lee . . . whats it called. . . discount place?) or from a box and cookies from a tube. I DO enjoy baking though. I am hoping now that I am back in the routine (did it A LOT more when the kids were younger) - I keep it up for snack foods for the ravenous monsters my precious teenagers.

When water and wheat combine, gluten is formed. Mixing increases the gluten activation. That's good in yeast breads, but in muffins and quick breads, you want a soft texture; if you overmix a dough it produces tough muffins.

[twoplustwo]

When water and wheat combine, gluten is formed. Mixing increases the gluten activation. That's good in yeast breads, but in muffins and quick breads, you want a soft texture; if you overmix a dough it produces tough muffins.

Of course. . . I totally know that . . because I watch the Great British Baking Show. . . lol! I just forgot.

[knitlove]

Of course. . . I totally know that . . because I watch the Great British Baking Show. . . lol! I just forgot.If you choose to let the dough hydrate is when you might windy to think about subing parking powder from baking soda. Baking soda starts releasing gas when in contact with water where as baking powder also starts releasing gas again when it is activated by the heat.

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[Soliloquy]

Try this for sky high muffins--
Start at 425°F for five minutes. Then drop the temperature to the stated baking temp. You'll have to check to determine the final cooking time as it will be less but the initial blast of heat should make them rise really high, even with some added WW. You can find more on this at Sally's Baking Addiction.

Another option is to order whole wheat pastry flour.

[twoplustwo]

I will try one o rmore of these tricks to see if I can keep the whole wheat and keep the RISE.

This upcoming week: Pineapple Coconut and Almond Cranberry . . .and now I am almost out of Cranberries so have to buy more of that but need them for the cookies in the other thread.

And I have Almonds left over from an Asian Salad I made this week. And coconut still left from one of the Christmas cookies I make.

We already buy 1-2 pineapples a week for the RAvenous monsters dc.