Feeling played and overwhelmed....by all 3. Ideas?

[gpsings]

My kids understand that daddy and I are trying to listen as well as teach, and it seems like there is a great deal of manipulation going on.

I'm frustrated, mostly because I don't know how to address it. It's a great deal of stress for me.

There is a trend in this house to 'tantrum' in each person's various personality when they don't get their way. If one asks for a snack, and gets 'dinner is ready' there are actual tears and loud sobbing. If another asks for the only phone charger left that we can find (the one in our bedroom) and I say no, there is stomping, great chore limiting headaches (she does get migraines) and of course, depression. The youngest can also turn on instant tears when he senses that the world is unjust (he has to clean his room or brush his teeth) but he's also capable of great rages in which lives are threatened and physical restraint is needed.
Add to this, disrespectful names being called (to me and dh) screaming and raging at each other on the drop of a hat, disobedience and challenging (mostly by the teen) like, stealing my cell phone to text dh as if she were me, stealing my e-cig (YES I DO, AND I STILL RUN 35 MILES A WEEK, SO I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT! :roll) etc. So.....
The talking and coming along side of them thing....it's wearing thin.
Ideas?

[Stiina]

Um.....bump?

:lurking

Sorry. My oldest isn't even 4 yet. :hug

[gpsings]

Did I accidentally set *hide* this post? :giggle

Bump!

[Stiina]

Everyone is scared of your situation :giggle

:hug

[gpsings]

I'm scared of my situation!!!! Tell them to get their hineys in here and help me!!! :roll

[Stiina]

:shifty

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?p=5485281#post5485281
:heart

[WildFlower]

Are you making it happen? I mean making your words mean something? :bag cause I only have a three yo and its HARD.

[TenderLovingWillow]

I'm in the "my oldest is 4" camp, so :hugheart and :pray4

[canadiyank]

Is this something new or ongoing?

[justbreathe]

I have absolutely no idea. :( in our house, tantrums are such a way of life that sometimes I feel like we're in a war zone. The only thing I know is controlling my reaction to their big feelings I s key.

[Apple-Saucy]

So what is your response when they pull something like the things mentioned?

If one asks for a snack, and gets 'dinner is ready' there are actual tears and loud sobbing. My response would be no response, or depending on how disruptive the behavior is, remove the child from the area until they are able to compose themselves. :shrug3 If another asks for the only phone charger left that we can find (the one in our bedroom) and I say no, there is stomping, great chore limiting headaches (she does get migraines) and of course, depression. How about instead of a flat no, you give a time table. For instance if your phone is charging say "My phone is charging right now, you can use the charger in x minutes" Great chore limiting headaches...the chore will be there when she's better...and possibly bigger than when the headache struck...her choice do it now or do it later when it's bigger and harder. Depression...is it "real" in that it's something that could be diagnosed or is it convenience? If it's convenience My response would be the same as headache. The youngest can also turn on instant tears when he senses that the world is unjust (he has to clean his room or brush his teeth) but he's also capable of great rages in which lives are threatened and physical restraint is needed. Very matter of fact (Don't get sucked into the drama!) "I'm sorry you feel that way, you still need to do X" As for raging...keep other safe but if he hurts himself he hurts himself :shrug3 Once I stopped trying to intervene on self harming behavior it was amazing how quickly they learned to not hurt themselves. :giggle

Add to this, disrespectful names being called (to me and dh) This would get no response from me. Well...a flat disinterested look and then move on as if they didn't say a thing. :shrug3 screaming and raging at each other on the drop of a hat, Separate into other areas of the house, or taking one for a walk to allow both parties to cool down. disobedience and challenging (mostly by the teen) like, stealing my cell phone to text dh as if she were me, stealing my e-cig (YES I DO, AND I STILL RUN 35 MILES A WEEK, SO I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT! ) etc. So.....
The talking and coming along side of them thing....it's wearing thin.
Ideas?

Disobedience is par for the course. Challenging is par for the course. Taking the phone and txting as if she were you...loss of access to electronics because she is not capable of acting appropriately with them. Stealing a DRUG is NOT challenging...that is stealing a drug. That is something that needs to be dealt with outside of discipline....and that responsibility falls on you to protect your child from your habit.

If your talking and coming along side is doing nothing then action is required. :shrug3

[HuggaBuggaMommy]

Is this something new or ongoing?

That's my first question, too. If this is behavior that has been happening for awhile, there will be a lot of "unlearning" necessary to help the situation.

We have a similar situation with the phone charger in our home. If ds1 has been irresponsible with his charger and can't find it, he may use our charger but *only* in the place we use it (the kitchen counter) if it's not in use at the moment. He can stand and use his phone there, or let it charge and take it. But we don't replace chargers for him, nor do we allow him to remove our charger and take it to his room, where it can potentially be lost.

(Baby crying, be back in a bit to continue my response...)

[MomtoJGJ]

My oldest is 10, but when I'm on MY game, I do similarly to Apple and it works great. When *I* am not doing what *I* should be doing, our daily lives spiral downward quickly.

FWIW, I'm only on my game about 2-3 out of every 5-7 days ;) The rest of the time it looks like what you described without the stealing.

Oh, and the phone charger... why do they need it? Is it for something that is THEIRS? did they lose THEIR charger and want to use yours? If it was their something, it just wouldn't work until they either found their charger or bought a new one with their money. If it was something of mine that I let them use then they can give me the item and I will charge it for them.

[hollybells]

I double checked what forum this is posted in and deleted most of my post. :doh I hope it's ok to just say that there is a lot going on in your home right now - whether the kids actually understand or not, they can sense something big has happened / is happening. :hugheart

Be present in what's happening with your kids but don't let their big feelings trigger your own. Make your words have meaning. Listen to what they're telling you. They may need the reassurance of calm, clear and consistent boundaries more than ever right now.

Not :nak but typing one-handed and trying to be respectful of the forum this is posted in so let me know if something doesn't make sense. ;)

[MarynMunchkins]

I think your kids are hurting a *lot* right now. I would guess the majority of the way they are acting comes from anxiety. I've been there, and it is scary. :shifty I don't think this is a discipline issue as much as dealing depression in an angsty teen.

How's your routine? The more predictable things are at home, the better my kids do.

[gpsings]

Is this something new or ongoing?

There is some extreme marital stress, but it's actually more calm and steady now than it's been in years. Dh and I are actually on the same page as far as parenting goes, and have been trying to be very intentional in holding each other up and accountable.

I think consistency has been an issue, and they've been 'neglected' for a while. We just need some tools to get on track.

side note: e-cig is not a drug....it's nicotine free and I don't know that it's illegal. It is expensive, however, not a habit she needs to pick up, and always gets it wet and somehow ruins my coils....:giggle Also, she's not allowed. It's like stealing daddy's coke. It's just a challenge.

[ArmsOfLove]

Those are all ages prone to tantrums. I wouldn't even worry about the 6yo - especially with all the stress going on. I would keep reinforcing the rules and helping him by validating and reflecting the feelings when they arise. I would sit the 13 yo down for a talk that involves them becoming the adult they are practicing to be and how you only have a few more years to be involved in teaching all you're supposed to and they don't wake up at 18 a different person - they are practicing *right now* who they will be. and then talk about who they want to be and how they can start practicing. 9 is just challenging - I'm about to have 2 at that age :crazy I would try to be as consistent as possible and coach in the down moments about how you want them to respond.

Also, because it's been stressful, make sure you are investing in the relationship even more than you are disciplining - you can only teach from a state of connectedness :hug

[bolt.]

I'll do this line by line, which can sound like I'm "picking at you" -- and it's going to be especially bad because I am going to encourage you that changing your thinking and your wording is an important part of responding differently... which also, reportedly, can make people feel "picked at". However this method is highly efficient and very clear, so I'm just going to go for it.
My kids understand that daddy and I are trying to listen as well as teach, and it seems like there is a great deal of manipulation going on.
OK. Remember: it's only manipulation if (a) it works, and (b) it involves dishonesty. If it doesn't involve dishonesty, it's only 'having a goal/preference and doing things to try to accomplish that goal'. If it's dishonest, it's still the same thing (goal behaviour) but has an added twist that makes it quite negative. However, even if they are *trying* manipulation, it's only *actually* manipulation if it *works*.

Try to re-frame this as simply using (slightly) sophisticated techniques to accomplish personal goals. It will help you not worry so much about issues of them 'being bad' for even trying, and so you will be able to focus on teaching them what you need them to learn. What you need them to learn is what works and what doesn't.

I'm frustrated, mostly because I don't know how to address it. It's a great deal of stress for me.
Your lack of ideas is fixable, but if you are allowing stress to mount, that will make you reactive and ineffective. Actually getting more ideas will help, but do try to tell yourself, "This issue is something in progress. I haven't got a solution yet, but I'm currently testing idea 27, and if that's not it, I'll test idea 28. It's not yet figured out, but it's well on it's way towards getting figured out."

There is a trend in this house to 'tantrum' in each person's various personality when they don't get their way.
OK: rephrase.

Which rephrase sounds most accurate?

"There is a general belief in this house that intentionally bringing excess emotionality and high volume to a situation is likely to help you accomplish your goal."
And/or
"There is a trend in this house to express actual disappointment about small issues without any attempt at personal composure."
And/or
"There is a general desire in this house to punish others with unpleasant behaviour / high volume whenever another person interferes with your goal,"

If one asks for a snack, and gets 'dinner is ready' there are actual tears and loud sobbing. If another asks for the only phone charger left that we can find (the one in our bedroom) and I say no, there is stomping,
Goal behaviour, lack of composure, or revenge/punishment?

great chore limiting headaches (she does get migraines)
It sounds like you think that, in addition to real headaches, there are false headaches claimed, or minor headaches exaggerated in order to relax when she would otherwise have to do work. Is this right?

When her headaches legitimately limit her chore participation, is there a "down side" to that, that is experienced (later) by the sufferer? Could there be a "down side" to what she can/can't do if other are doing chores while she claims to need rest?

and of course, depression.
Beyond my scope.

The youngest can also turn on instant tears when he senses that the world is unjust (he has to clean his room or brush his teeth)
Goal behaviour, lack of composure/self-control, or revenge/punishment -- do you think?

but he's also capable of great rages in which lives are threatened and physical restraint is needed.
This sounds like actually getting beyond his own control. He needs training in how to respond to his own emotions without lashing out. Can you get a guide for that kind of 'therapy' or put him in a class or something? Maybe anger management videos on you tube?

It's a longer term project that requires you to set the curriculum and build the skill.

Add to this, disrespectful names being called (to me and dh)
I think this calls for time apart: which can look like a 'time out' (but isn't one). It also calls for learning good expressive, satisfying scripts to use in angry situations. What sentiments do you think they are trying to express?

screaming and raging at each other on the drop of a hat,
Separation, reparations, role-play training.

disobedience
Fewer direct instructions. More "when-then". More "If you choose not to xyz, I will take care of it by abc, which will have the consequence of lmnop."

and challenging (mostly by the teen) like, stealing my cell phone to text dh as if she were me, stealing my e-cig
I hesitate to call that "challenging" -- it's more like violation of personal boundaries, I think. I'd be in favour of increasing supervision (requiring her to stay near you, but being pleasant company: not 'tomato staking').

Probably a catch phrase about how/why to consider other people's personal belongings off limits would help (it's best if it's not only informative, but repetitive and annoying -- teens are very unacceptable to annoyance)

I'm leaning towards using money: it's nice to be able to fine children for violating personal boundaries, especially with other people's property.

However, I think you are overwhelmed. The cellphone thing sounds like a (misguided) clever prank. I bet teens do this to each other all the time, and it's just for a laugh. But what exactly did she want your e-cig for?

---

As a whole picture, a lot of your reaction is coming from lumping them all together as "the children" in your mind. All together they are overwhelming, but if you think of each one on his/her own separate train track or something, you will be better able to focus your efforts to help each one make small progress in these areas that they need your help with.

Think in small specific boxes, and let your level of frustration guide you as to what and who to work on first (since you can't fix it all at once, but you will be able to do more things at once you make progress on the most frustrating slices of the whole situation.)

Child A, behaviour 1 is undesirable. Possible idea to help with that is xyz. Priority to focus on this compared to other issues is...
Child A, behaviour 2...
Child B...
Etc.

[Stiina]

Gretchen, I didn't know any of your back story so I apologize if my silly thread was in bad taste. :hugheart

[illinoismommy]

1. Password on cell phone
2. Consequences for name calling. No name calling allowed

[DoulaClara]

Gretchen, if two of your best friends had a huge falling out that directly involved you, and changed the way both of them were acting for a while, and you had issues with one of the friends especially in her treatment of you, and this lasted a WHILE, and all of a sudden, months and months later, ba-BAM, they were super friends with each other again and wanted you to just shake off the last several months of garbage,how would you feel? :heart

I won't get into details. But you and your husband habitually made decisions and choices deliberately over the last long while that have contributed to this problem. That doesn't instantly go away when those decisions and choices go away.

In the meantime, making time to have regular one-on-one with each child, locking up everything they may not have, and staying calm and getting them the exact professional help they need will go a long way. Setting up fairly regular schedules and routines will be awesome for the youngest. Relationship building is going to be the foundation the older two need in spades right now, but they all need this.

:pray4 for you. It's not going to be easy, but I know you can do it.

[Apple-Saucy]

I haven't been following your story....I truly hope you are ALL in therapy...individual AND Family therapy.


And...every e-cig I have ever seen is a smokeless nicotine delivery system....otherwise what is the point of it?

[illinoismommy]

side note: e-cig is not a drug....it's nicotine free and I don't know that it's illegal.

It is not nicotine free. :hug2

[CelticJourney]

I've got 18, 15 and 6. Most of what I would have asked has already been, so I'll wait for 'round 2'. I'm most curious about what the consequences of these behaviors looks like.

[gpsings]

I haven't been following your story....I truly hope you are ALL in therapy...individual AND Family therapy.


And...every e-cig I have ever seen is a smokeless nicotine delivery system....otherwise what is the point of it?
It's yummy. :giggle And we do buy nicotine free juices. They are available at the place where we go (Rock n Roll vapor) Kevin is quitting smoking, but I just like it. :yes
It is not nicotine free. :hug2
They have different levels of nicotine, but I buy the nicotine free. It's cherry-cinnamon flavor. :giggle I haz a sweet tooth.

It is a personal boundary. All of this is good advice, today is a new day. Thank you all so much. I just need that connection to each of them individually to be strenthened.

[gpsings]

We are doing better, but it's been said...my description of what's going on is largely contributing. (Thanks again, Bolt) and reframing my own view is a huge help. I'm working with ds on handling his big feelings using this (http://www.amazon.com/Volcano-My-Tummy-Helping-Children/dp/0865713499/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380803166&sr=1-1&keywords=there%27s+a+volcano+in+my+tummy) and the discussion with my oldest went well. My middle child just really needs more recognition and attention....she's a sweetheart. :heart
More bonding, really. The stress was just overwhelming that day.

[Stiina]

You are such a good mom. :heart

[gpsings]

You are such a good mom. :heart

YOU are getting to be one of my fav. posters!!! :giggle :heart

[Stiina]

:heart :hug