my kids are running the show!

[MamaD]

I'm very frustrated & upset as I write this. My kids are running the show and I need to get back on the driver's seat. I feel blackmailed & being stepped all over by them. Helpful suggestions needed.

My 2 & 3 year olds are in the habit of whining and creating an urgency through whining to get attention and get what they want, and to get it instantaneously. I have a household to care for, meals to make, myself to feed, and 3 months old babies to care for (these babies are multiples). I'm not able to drop everything and get to them the minute they call. Actually, that's besides the point. The point is that they CREATE an urgency by whining (and escalating if I don't respond), and they are so good at it that they've got me LITERALLY RUNNING around the house for them starting 6 in the morning.

For example, today, they woke up & i'm serving breakfast. #2 is whining to get milk. Then he dumps all his milk from cup to his bowl. Then he starts whining to get more milk. Meanwhile, #1 is somewhere else in the house whining about his sweater. I went to take care of #1's sweater. In between that #2 is still whining about milk, cereal, needs this, wants that, doesn't want this, this is wrong, doesn't like that......Meanwhile #1 is whining about getting dressed, can't find this can't find that, doesn't want this doesn't want that, wants me to read a book with him. I said can't do it now it's still breakfast time & i need to eat too so read it yourself if you'd like. Then he starts whining about how he "can't read it", doesn't know the words (that's bull, he sometimes just flips through the pages and looks at them as he "reads it"). I said do something else until we can read together after breakfast & clean up. Meanwhile #2 is still at the table whining about everything, same old stuff. This whole time I'm RACING between the living room (where #1 is) and the kitchen (where #2 is) and the whole house upstairs & downstairs trying to go find #1's sweater for him and everyting else that #1 & #2 wants. It's 6 in the morning. Next thing you know #2 is whinng that he's all done and wants to be taken off the chair. So I'm racing to go clean him up & get him out. Once he's out of the chair, he wants me to get this toy for him (a toy that we keep away & they have to ask for permission to play with). I went & got it out thinking he can play with it & i can go do what I need to do for a few minutes. I turn around to the kitchen to start getting myself breakfast. he starts whining this that about that toy. I had just rolled out of bed - have NOT peed, have NOT eaten anything yet, have only SLAVED & ran around the house for them as if a gun was pointing at my head for the last hour. You know i'm really upset at this point.

The whole time they had me running around for them I was thinking, "ok, i'm just gonna help him fix this then I can go do my stuff, eat, pee, whatnot". The whole time I thought that but everytime i fix something there will be something else, and the other person is going to have something else too. And why didn't I just let it be, told all of them to wait on everything until I'm ready to help? Because i've got 2 little babies sleeping and absolutely cannot afford for the whine to escalate into a cry & scream. We wake those babies up before they're done sleeping, they are going to be cranky and crying themselves, then i'd be in deep deep trouble. I think they got me on that. (aha moment - they know that i don't want them to get louder so I won't put my foot down with them because if I dare to put my foot down all they have to do is scream & cry and I will die for them to have them stop the screaming). That's it - they've got me. Next, i'm constantly trying to fix one thing thinking that i can buy myself 2 minutes after that, but it never buys me anything but to go fix the next thing in a fire fighting rushing mode (that's what they make their situation sound like). They are just trying to get attention from me by creating all these things. On top of that, they are competing for attention by creating more situations for themselves where they need me to do something for them such that i won't be able to do something for the other one. And as soon as the other one sees it he starts creating a situation too so I have to go run to him instead of staying with the first one.

Between the 2 of them and the threat that baby is going to wake up, they've really got me working for them. I was soooo sad this morning i felt taken advantage of, because I just woke up and didn't even pee or eat anything after breastfeeding 2 babies on demand all night. It's a fact that kids aren't able to see other people's needs but that doesn't mean that i'm not upset for not having my own needs met and instead pulled all over the place with a ring on my nose by them. I am very upset that i'm allowing them to dictate my priorities - my priorities to care for myself & care for babies are always shoved to the bottom by them. The whole day i'm running around for them and entertaining them. I'm never with the babies and they never let me be with the babies. I'm constantly putting one or two crying babies down to cry by themselves while i go help fix x for either #1 or #2 quickly so that #1 or #2 would give me a few minutes to help the crying babies. But that's never the case, I'm constantly putting 1 or two crying babies down to do something for #1 or #2 but I never actually get to the crying babies after doing something for them because there will only be another thing to fix, get for them, do for them, etc. If we're all playing together & i bring a baby or two out to play & be with us, if I look at a baby or talk to a baby, or try to change a baby's diaper, one of them will suddenly have something going on that "needs" & pulls my attention away from baby and onto him, then the other one will do it too. It's not like i'm neglecting them - i spend the whole day with them, doing stuff with them or trying while engaging them, and in my mind always is how to entertain them, what to get for them & do with them to keep them busy so i'd have more time for babies & myself. Thinking if i spend more time with them now they'll let me spend some time caring for babies or myself later. But I NEVER get to the part where I get to spend time caring for babies or myself part. The thing about this is time for x and next it'll be time for y, and now it's time i do this with you, next it's time i eat or time i do x with babies doesn't work. They CONSUME my whole day. They are still very young i know that but they are not the center of the world and even without the babies we still have everything else to take care of that isn't about them.

What can I do to defuse such a dynamic where they are dictating my priorities and running the show. How do i get back on the driver seat and stop letting them run the show for all the reasons i explained? I NEED time to take care of myself (such as restroom, brush teeth, eat) and I NEED time to take care of babies.

By the way please don't suggest anything along the lines of "do it together" (such as change baby's diaper with them, have them help), because that doesn't work. There is too much competition between #1 & #2 that if I have one help with something not the other I'd be starting a fight between them. To have #1 help with x & #2 help with y doesn't work either (even though it sounds beautiful) - I end up spending way too much time on the task. Sometimes, especially times when babies are fussing, I really really need #1& #2 to go be on their own for 20 minutes until I can successfully rock a baby or two to sleep without any distractions that would make the babies not sleep & overstimulate. How do I get those little peices of time where i'm able to go take care of somebody else? (not to mention that trying to rock 1 baby to sleep while another baby is crying isn't challenging enough itself, let alone adding the older children....) so frustrated.

[GraemesMomma]

You have quite unrealistic (and unfair) expectations for your 2 and 3 year olds. Have you read any developmental books for these ages?

They are still babies. They are acting their age. You're assigning them such adult labels ("running the show" "dictating", etc) and that is setting you up for nothing but frustration.

You have a very full plate! It is plain hard to mother that many littles :hugheart

However, you'll need to start by drastically altering your expectations. :yes

Do you have a routine? Things like getting milk, food, clothes, what activities your oldest do while you put babies to sleep, etc.

[houseforjoy]

:nak2bbl

[Hilary316]

Sounds like my 2 and 4 yr olds! It seems no matter how many times I tell them no, redirect them, teach them to use gentle hands, script them.... They still try to push push push. lol I think it's just their ages. Just be consistent and hang in there! *hugs*

[MamaD]

You have quite unrealistic (and unfair) expectations for your 2 and 3 year olds. Have you read any developmental books for these ages?

They are still babies. They are acting their age. You're assigning them such adult labels ("running the show" "dictating", etc) and that is setting you up for nothing but frustration.

You have a very full plate! It is plain hard to mother that many littles :hugheart

However, you'll need to start by drastically altering your expectations. :yes

Do you have a routine? Things like getting milk, food, clothes, what activities your oldest do while you put babies to sleep, etc.

Yes i do. i have many routines and i stay up for an additional 3-4 hours a day after kids bed time to get those routines & things in place for next day. So that isn't quiet the issue. The issue, as i mentioned, is things where they try to go out of the routine to want something else to keep me busy. it may have sounded like i didn't have #1's clothes for him and that's what you were probably getting at. That's not true, the fact is their clothes were already laying out there, he just wanted a different sweater from what's there! for #2, milk and everything he needs was already there, he just decided to dump his milk out of his cup and play with it instead of drink it, and not eat the food i gave him to eat, instead asking for something else- that's all. and when i got him what he wanted thinking this will buy me a few minutes he he eats for a bit he decided to whine about how he wants this something else in that bow instead of this bow. but i had it all together for each of them to meet each of their essential needs.

By the way, simply saying "you have unrealistic expectations" isn't helpful to me at all. It is soo easy to say things like "you have unrealistic expectations" from the outside, but it's not a "helpful suggestion" as I asked for in the beginning of my post.I find this particular response to be a bit harsh on me and unsupportive. :-( "alter my expectations" - exactly what does that mean? Run around all morning without restroom or eating like i did this morning and leave 2 3 month olds crying because i'm having a "realistic expectation" for the 2 & 3 year olds to whine, demand, and pull me away from the priorities I set for that moment based on what each members of the family need at at moment?

I know that 2& 3 are both still very very young. I know that. But young & needing care isn't the same as being the center of the attention & the only thing existing. We have the rest of the family here and being young doesn't mean we can't take care of the rest of the family too.

By the way, for the poster who said I have "unrealistic expectations" for the 2&3 year olds, exactly what expectations did i say I have for them? I didn't say any. All I said is that I need to be able to use the restroom, eat, take care of a baby when needed without running around the house doing whatever my 2& 3 year olds "want" me to do at the moment. I didn't say anything about what i expect from them. I just dont expect myself to be running around for them the way i did this morning after having put out the clothes & food they needed at the moment.

Please only post if you have a "helpful suggestion" or something supportive & encouraging. I'm here to find support, encouragement, and practical tips/suggestions. I'm not here to be criticized with my word choice ("running the show" or "dictate" etc). Understand that i am angry and frustrated (again, as i said in the beginning of my post) so part of me needs the freedom and safe place to vent without being criticized and judged. i'm doing my best to describe the situation here so i can get some practical, again, "helpful suggestions".

[3boysforme]

The issue, as i mentioned, is things where they try to go out of the routine to want something else. it may have sounded like i didn't have #1's clothes for him and that's what you were probably getting at. That's not true, the fact is their clothes were already laying out there, he just wanted a different sweater from what's there!:-(

My ds3 does this quite often. My solution has been to say "dressing time is over" and physically remove him from the room (usually while he is throwing a fit :shifty) and moving on the next task. I can usually distract him once we are away from the room and onto something else.


for #2, milk and everything he needs was already there, he just decided to dump his milk out of his cup and play with it instead of drink it, and not eat the food i gave him to eat, instead asking for something else- that's all. but i had it all together for each of them to meet each of their essential needs. :-(


I would not even give #2 a regular cup then. He can have a regular cup while I help him drink (and then it is immediately removed) or he can have a sippy. Preferably a no leak one, my ds3 was really good at removing the leak thing and getting water everywhere :doh


By the way, simply saying "you have unrealistic expectations" isn't helpful to me at all. It is soo easy to say things like "you have unrealistic expectations" from the outside, but it's not a "helpful suggestion" as I asked for in the beginning of my post.I find this particular response to be a bit harsh on me and unsupportive. :-(
I can promise you, not a single one of us is saying that to be unsupportive or harsh :hug. Everyone here has struggled with the expectations we have put on our babies and have had to adjust them. Yours are very, very young still.

I honestly cannot imagine taking care of so many young children at one. I imagine it is very difficult.

[GraemesMomma]

Yes i do. i have many routines and i stay up for an additional 3-4 hours a day after kids bed time to get those routines & things in place for next day. So that isn't quiet the issue. The issue, as i mentioned, is things where they try to go out of the routine to want something else. it may have sounded like i didn't have #1's clothes for him and that's what you were probably getting at. That's not true, the fact is their clothes were already laying out there, he just wanted a different sweater from what's there! for #2, milk and everything he needs was already there, he just decided to dump his milk out of his cup and play with it instead of drink it, and not eat the food i gave him to eat, instead asking for something else- that's all. but i had it all together for each of them to meet each of their essential needs.

By the way, simply saying "you have unrealistic expectations" isn't helpful to me at all. It is soo easy to say things like "you have unrealistic expectations" from the outside, but it's not a "helpful suggestion" as I asked for in the beginning of my post.I find this particular response to be a bit harsh on me and unsupportive. :-(

I can understand how my post may have seemed harsh. I see you're a bit new to GCM - you don't "know" me (I can be quite straightforward) and I was also posting on my phone, so I tend to be more abbreviated than when I'm on a real computer. I'm sure you're also quite overwhelmed at the moment (completely understandable! :hug) - so I get that.
:hug2 I can assure you that my intent was to support you.

I wasn't picking apart your post when I asked about a routine. :no I was trying to troubleshoot with you. You read a lot of negative intent into my post that wasn't there :hug2

And in GBD, everything starts with our expectations. I, myself, have many, many times struggled with having realistic expectations from my little ones. I am coming from that perspective. :yes

Please assume that ladies posting here are trying to help, including myself :heart We call it "assigning positive intent" here on GCM - try to assume the other person is coming from a place of helpfulness. :tu

[BestLaidPlans]

All of your children are still babies, in my eyes. Taking such dedicated care of all of them at the same time is normal, necessary, and hard. :yes:hug2

Yes, you are going to run, run, run. And you are going to get frustrated. And they will whine. All little ones do. And it takes training and reminding x65,000 to get them to remember to ask for something politely in a nice voice. And it wont happen by the time they are 3 or even 4 years old for most kids. I still have older children who whine at times and need reminders.

(((big hugs))) I know this does not sound all that encouraging. But it is the truth. Motherhood to so many little is HARD. :phew I had 4 kids in 4 years (the first 4), with 3 of those being age 2 and under. I remember those times being so exhausting. Did I get angry? Yes, sometimes I did. Those were not my best moments. :doh

Take a deep breath. Motherhood of so many tiny ones is possibly the height of giving up of yourself. And it is a good thing for you and for them. They will slowly learn more patience by remembering that they have to take turns waiting for Mama. And you will see how to really live out Christ-likeness. (I am assuming you are a Christian, obviously. Sorry if that is not the case and is offensive to you.) It is a win-win, but it is hard. That is the plain truth.

You CAN survive this, and you WILL. This is a great time to start truly learning to pray without ceasing! Ask me how I know. :giggle Do you know how many times I ended up crying and saying that I could not do this? A lot. And guess what? Now those same 1st four babies are all home schooling, and they are wonderful children who know their Mama loves them. It does work out, it just seems like it could not possibly without all of us losing our sanity!

Try planning for as much as possible ahead of time as you can. Laying things out the night before, cooking in crockpots, etc. This will relieve some of the chaotic moments when you have so much to do... obviously, though it will not solve all of them, because life still happens.

As for them waking the babies... some of that you will have to accept to a large degree. With all littles, they will wake the babies.

Get some special toys or special tv shows that you use for times when you really must be quiet. Only allow those out for those times. Or figure out an activity that somehow helps you.

Oh, man... I remember when #4 was a few months old. I had to make dinner... and every single night that is when all FOUR would cry!!! So I took the older three, even the wee toddlers (remember, my oldest was only 4...) and put them around the kitchen table with crayons and paper. I held the baby with one arm and cooked with the other as much as I could. And I put in ear plugs. I could still hear them, but it toned down the loudness of their crying. Sometimes the baby had to cry (I had nothing to wear the baby), because it was dangerous to cook some things with her in my arms. And I hated it and held her as soon as I could. But goodness... it was rough going there for awhile.

Step out on the porch for about 3 minutes of quiet now and then. It will help, truly. I know how hard it can be.

But the bottom line is... the kids are the show. Yes, to a degree, they are running it. You are their everything. And it will be a big learning curve for you, as it has been for all of us. (((Many hugs)))

I hope you have found my rambling to be helpful, not hurtful. :hug2

[GraemesMomma]

All of your children are still babies, in my eyes. Take such dedicated care of all of them at the same time is normal, necessary, and hard. :yes:hug2

<snip>

But the bottom line is... the kids are the show. Yes, to a degree, they are running it. You are their everything. And it will be a big learning curve for you, as it has been for all of us.

Beautiful. :heart Summarizes so much of what I've learned from parenting littles :yes

[mountainash]

Could you create a "chill" space somewhere their voices wont carry to the babies' room? Maybe their bedrooms, on a back deck, or in the basement--somewhere it's safe for them to be as loud as they can be without disturbing others? Put in toys, books, pillows, etc.

Use a fan for white noise in the babies' room?

[TenderLovingWillow]

Wow mama, you sound so exhauseted and frustrated. Coming from one who totally spazed at my 2 year old for spilling milk yesterday, big huge hugs. :hugheart

Im going to just work through your post, and hopefully you will find something useful. My responses will be in bold, so I don't have to mess with the quote thing. :hug

I'm very frustrated & upset as I write this. My kids are running the show and I need to get back on the driver's seat. I feel blackmailed & being stepped all over by them. Helpful suggestions needed.

IRT the red, I totally understand how you feel. I think this is the root of where Amanda was trying to get at the expectations thing. Its so, so hard to move from a place where we plan on setting the pace, and moving in a general direction determined by us, to recognizing that there needs and emotions are super unpredictable, and everything is a crisis to them. The thing is, it is a real crisis to that little person. :hug



My 2 & 3 year olds are in the habit of whining and creating an urgency through whining to get attention and get what they want, and to get it instantaneously. I have a household to care for, meals to make, myself to feed, and 3 months old babies to care for (these babies are multiples). I'm not able to drop everything and get to them the minute they call. Actually, that's besides the point. The point is that they CREATE an urgency by whining (and escalating if I don't respond), and they are so good at it that they've got me LITERALLY RUNNING around the house for them starting 6 in the morning.

I have a 2 and 3 year old and a baby on the way. I am super nervous to handling it all at once, so I get how hectic life seems. Its so hard to have people constantly screaming like the world is ended, and being patient with them. :ph

Here are some things that I have put in place to (hopefully) help myself when I have a new baby.
1) Easy one step meals. Chicken in crock pot with salsa. Serve on tortillas. 5 min. etc. There is an awesome thread that I will try to find when I finish this post. It has literally dozens of meals that are super fast, with normal ingredients. :rockon
2) Talk myself through the way I am feeling out loud. If I have a 3 year old FLIPPING out because he can't make it stop snowing, I will say outloud to myself "Oh my word Willow, I am feeling so frustrated right now. He is freaking out about something I can't change or fix right now. I need to recognize that he is just as frustrated as I am and kindly help him work through these feelings."
3) Use appropriate boundaries. Sometimes I simply *can't* go and fix the trains for the 700th time. In which case I will say "I am sorry I am not able to help you right now. Please go try yourself, or choose a different toy." If the freakout continues I say "It is not kind for you to scream at mama. You may scream in your bed. If you want me to help you feel better, or if you want to talk kindly, call me and I will help you" And then I walk out, and let him freak.

For example, today, they woke up & i'm serving breakfast. #2 is whining to get milk. Then he dumps all his milk from cup to his bowl. Then he starts whining to get more milk. Meanwhile, #1 is somewhere else in the house whining about his sweater. I went to take care of #1's sweater. In between that #2 is still whining about milk, cereal, needs this, wants that, doesn't want this, this is wrong, doesn't like that......Meanwhile #1 is whining about getting dressed, can't find this can't find that, doesn't want this doesn't want that, wants me to read a book with him. I said can't do it now it's still breakfast time & i need to eat too so read it yourself if you'd like. Then he starts whining about how he "can't read it", doesn't know the words (that's bull, he sometimes just flips through the pages and looks at them as he "reads it"). I said do something else until we can read together after breakfast & clean up. Meanwhile #2 is still at the table whining about everything, same old stuff. This whole time I'm RACING between the living room (where #1 is) and the kitchen (where #2 is) and the whole house upstairs & downstairs trying to go find #1's sweater for him and everyting else that #1 & #2 wants. It's 6 in the morning. Next thing you know #2 is whinng that he's all done and wants to be taken off the chair. So I'm racing to go clean him up & get him out. Once he's out of the chair, he wants me to get this toy for him (a toy that we keep away & they have to ask for permission to play with). I went & got it out thinking he can play with it & i can go do what I need to do for a few minutes. I turn around to the kitchen to start getting myself breakfast. he starts whining this that about that toy. I had just rolled out of bed - have NOT peed, have NOT eaten anything yet, have only SLAVED & ran around the house for them as if a gun was pointing at my head for the last hour. You know i'm really upset at this point.

:phew That sounds crazy! Here are some thoughts.
Recognize that you are being triggered emotionally by the demands. Find some ways to release the stress you feel. Its MUCH easier to handle a sweater and books that aren't going right, and milk *if* you don't feel like you have a gun to your head. So, what has helped me is understanding these things about myself.
*I feel caged, and pressured by my kids feelings.
*Turn MY feelings over to Christ. He can and does handle it. It means I am praying most of my day, "Lord, Im about to loose it! Let me show your love to this crazy kid!"
*My kids feelings *do not actually cage or control me, even if it feels like it*
*They are inmature babies. They really are. Even the 3 year old who can even sound more grown up than he is developmentally. Babies use screams and whines to communicate, especially when *they* feel like the world is crumbling.
*Its my job to teach them what is and what isn't crisis. Part of the way that I do that is streamlining needs. If someone needs their butt wiped, and the other the bear taken off the couch right this second, I am teaching the *real* urgency of the situation by allowing myself to *calmly* handle the butt wiping before the teddy bear. Its okay to let them learn to wait. A Gentle Answer Turns Away Wrath is really, really true. If I go and fix Teddy, and speak softly in the midst of the screaming by saying "Thank you sweetheart for waiting, how I can I help? It really helps to tone down his feelings.


The whole time they had me running around for them I was thinking, "ok, i'm just gonna help him fix this then I can go do my stuff, eat, pee, whatnot". The whole time I thought that but everytime i fix something there will be something else, and the other person is going to have something else too. And why didn't I just let it be, told all of them to wait on everything until I'm ready to help? Because i've got 2 little babies sleeping and absolutely cannot afford for the whine to escalate into a cry & scream. We wake those babies up before they're done sleeping, they are going to be cranky and crying themselves, then i'd be in deep deep trouble. I think they got me on that. (aha moment - they know that i don't want them to get louder so I won't put my foot down with them because if I dare to put my foot down all they have to do is scream & cry and I will die for them to have them stop the screaming). That's it - they've got me. Next, i'm constantly trying to fix one thing thinking that i can buy myself 2 minutes after that, but it never buys me anything but to go fix the next thing in a fire fighting rushing mode (that's what they make their situation sound like). They are just trying to get attention from me by creating all these things. On top of that, they are competing for attention by creating more situations for themselves where they need me to do something for them such that i won't be able to do something for the other one. And as soon as the other one sees it he starts creating a situation too so I have to go run to him instead of staying with the first one.

Its 100% okay IMO to turn on a movie so you can eat, take a deep breath, and keep them quiet for nap time. :yes Learning that everyones needs need to be met is part of living in a family. And if your needs are not being met, you can not as easily care for them. I can imagine the panic of worrying about waking babies, which I why I would TOTALLY use the TV. In fact, I would institute babies nap time as quiet time. They play with quiet toys, or watch a movie. It might take a week to get the concept of quiet time, but you won't regret it. :no

Between the 2 of them and the threat that baby is going to wake up, they've really got me working for them. I was soooo sad this morning i felt taken advantage of, because I just woke up and didn't even pee or eat anything after breastfeeding 2 babies on demand all night. It's a fact that kids aren't able to see other people's needs but that doesn't mean that i'm not upset for not having my own needs met and instead pulled all over the place with a ring on my nose by them. I am very upset that i'm allowing them to dictate my priorities - my priorities to care for myself & care for babies are always shoved to the bottom by them. The whole day i'm running around for them and entertaining them. I'm never with the babies and they never let me be with the babies. I'm constantly putting one or two crying babies down to cry by themselves while i go help fix x for either #1 or #2 quickly so that #1 or #2 would give me a few minutes to help the crying babies. But that's never the case, I'm constantly putting 1 or two crying babies down to do something for #1 or #2 but I never actually get to the crying babies after doing something for them because there will only be another thing to fix, get for them, do for them, etc. If we're all playing together & i bring a baby or two out to play & be with us, if I look at a baby or talk to a baby, or try to change a baby's diaper, one of them will suddenly have something going on that "needs" & pulls my attention away from baby and onto him, then the other one will do it too. It's not like i'm neglecting them - i spend the whole day with them, doing stuff with them or trying while engaging them, and in my mind always is how to entertain them, what to get for them & do with them to keep them busy so i'd have more time for babies & myself. Thinking if i spend more time with them now they'll let me spend some time caring for babies or myself later. But I NEVER get to the part where I get to spend time caring for babies or myself part. The thing about this is time for x and next it'll be time for y, and now it's time i do this with you, next it's time i eat or time i do x with babies doesn't work. They CONSUME my whole day. They are still very young i know that but they are not the center of the world and even without the babies we still have everything else to take care of that isn't about them.

It sounds like a big part of the problem is that you are not getting the self care you need. :hug Are there simple things you can do to give yourself a moment to collect yourself? Fix a cup of tea? Spent 5 min in the bathroom listening to peaceful music? Those kindof things can really help in the moment, but I think its important to have some self care time scheduled in where you either have someone else coming to kid manage for a few hours, or even something as simple has taking a 20 min walk while DH watches the kids. Sometimes as mama's we forget that we can't take care of little people if we are running on empty. While I don't have the 2 tiny babies, I have had crazy insomnia for 6 weeks, and gotten literally no more than 3 hours of sleep for weeks. I am right there with the sleep and the stress, and the crazy.

What can I do to defuse such a dynamic where they are dictating my priorities and running the show. How do i get back on the driver seat and stop letting them run the show for all the reasons i explained? I NEED time to take care of myself (such as restroom, brush teeth, eat) and I NEED time to take care of babies.

*Understand that they are not running the show. They are showing you their needs and wants and desires. Because you are the one who is there for them, to love and nurture them. Try to re frame this in your mind as them communicating needs to you (perceived needs are still needs in their mind) And you are there to teach, and guide them, which may mean streamlining the needs of the whole family. Which includes you mama. It just does. :hug
*Ask for help. You are doing superhuman work. You really, truly are. 4 kids under 4 is NOT a picnic, and its not wrong or anything at all to call the ladies from church and ask if someone has a teen daughter they can spare to play toys with your 2 olders while you and the babies sleep. Its healthy to know your limits and seek outside help. :yes
*Recognize how your emotions and reactions to their feelings are playing a role. I think its totally normal to feel controlled by another persons feelings. But its totally okay to say "Jonny is super mad right now. I can not help him. He can be angry in this safe place while I tend to the needs of Suzy." This is super different than saying "Jonny is making me feel angry because he is angry. This is *making* me angry, and I feel resentful because I feel like *he* is *forcing* my peace away"

The first places the responsibility for his feelings on him, and gives you a plan to protect your sanity, the second makes him responsible for your feelings. It isn't possible for a child to be responsible for your feelings. You choose how to react, and I am not trying to imply here that your frustration is invalid. :hug Im just trying to help you re-frame their actions by assigning positive intent.

I guess what my main point is is that if you EXPECT them to whine, cry, and have calamities all day long, and make plans to streamline the calamity when it happens, it puts you in a place where you are anticipating the crazy, rather than feeling controlled by it. Does that make sense?

By the way please don't suggest anything along the lines of "do it together" (such as change baby's diaper with them, have them help), because that doesn't work. There is too much competition between #1 & #2 that if I have one help with something not the other I'd be starting a fight between them. To have #1 help with x & #2 help with y doesn't work either (even though it sounds beautiful) - I end up spending way too much time on the task. Sometimes, especially times when babies are fussing, I really really need #1& #2 to go be on their own for 20 minutes until I can successfully rock a baby or two to sleep without any distractions that would make the babies not sleep & overstimulate. How do I get those little peices of time where i'm able to go take care of somebody else? (not to mention that trying to rock 1 baby to sleep while another baby is crying isn't challenging enough itself, let alone adding the older children....) so frustrated.[/QUOTE]
TV. :shifty Coloring books? (with washable crayons, because I guarantee you that it won't only be the books colored on.)
Maybe quiet time toys? Watch the kids and find out which toys they will quietly play with for 15-20 min, and then move them out of rotation un-noticed. Bring them out in separate places when you need some quiet time. (Or if you are financially able, go buy something super awesome exciting and special, that they ONLY get during down time)

I honestly can't speak to the babies aspect. I am going to have 1 newborn here in the next 5-10 weeks, but I don't even know how I am going to handle with them, much less life with twins, but I hope that something I said is helpful. :heart

Hang in there Mama. The older Mama's here tell me they eventually grow up, poor their own milk, and wipe their own butts. Its a super hard, hard stage of parenting, times 4 for you. :hugheart

[rcsmom]

I don't know how much this will help but I did see the other day a carrier specially designed for twins- don't know if you have one of these or have considered one but here is the link. I know for me I feel like sometimes my younger one is missing out because his big brother can be so demanding (even at 4!) but when I am wearing him i know at least he is getting what he really needs from me right now which is to be close to me. here is the link to the carrier I saw- I think there are others out there.
http://www.weego.com/en/produkte/weego_twin.php
Also something I wanted to mention is that just becuase they are whining doesn't necessarily mean you need to do something about it- like in your example of your oldest wanting a different shirt- sorry tough luck kid- this is the shirt mommy got out for you today- you can wear it or not (or get yourself a different one if he is able) but you aren't doing x until you are dressed (for us this is usually eat breakfast). :shrug3 Do you have a white noise machine or something similar for where the babies are sleeping? That can really help with the noise of older siblings. Also wearing babies tends to put them to sleep. You sound really overwhelmed (I know I would be with that many little ones)

[BlissfullyEsther]

I'm feeling quite tight-chested after reading the OP, with memories of my second child's toddler years. All I can offer is an understanding that it *is* hard (so much more for you with the babies in the mix) and it *will* be easier one day. You *will* be able to go to the toilet or prepare yourself a meal, honestly.

I have a few other thoughts, but I'll see if I can make my thoughts make sense before I type them.

[MamaD]

Only have a second now..
I;m feeling a lot more supported through these responses now. thank you.
I get the re-framining.
I still don't get what exactly to do in that moment. Again, this morning, whining to get stuff. I repeatedly patiently asked "please try again with your normal voice", and I didn't cave into the whine. Then what? each time i said to try with your normal voice (any calm gentle variation of the same message), I get a higher pitch of whine. Can't snap them out of the whining mode. I CANNOT OPERATE ON 2 KIDS WHINING IN MY EARS!!!! that is a gun pointing in my head. Eventually it just escalated (didn't take long at all, only 3-4 tries) a full blown yell, cry, and scream. now i'm lose-lose either way, either cave into the whine & get more whine, or don't respond to whine then get the yell & scream. Don't tell me to reframe here on the term lose-lose, i'm just describring both sides of the coin with this whining situation. help me get into a better situation with the whine.

I do have loud white noise by babies' ears already, and that can mask some of the regular loud voice that kids just normally talk in. But it cannot mask the yell, scream and cry when they don't get their way. Help! Right now i have #2 locked in his room (i told him to go finish whining, crying, screaming and yelling in his room and only come out when he is finished and ready to be calm and speak nicely). But i hate keep having to send them to their room. I also cannot tolerate their outburst here next to me & babies. it's just wayyyyy to loud for me & babies.

[illinoismommy]

In response to latest question: let them whine and GO PEE. I get that its really annoying but it is okay to have them wait, too. You need to eat so eat. You cannot let your fear of them screaming and crying make you not take care of yourself. Sometimes babies cry. :shrug Come to peace with that fact and you'll feel less anxiety about jumping to make them happy before they cry. Learning that sometimes they need to wait starts now, even if they don't get it yet.

[BestLaidPlans]

This will probably only work for your 3 yr old, as I do not imagine your 2 yo can grasp it yet... but try showing them what their normal voice sounds like. Whine for them, then show them your lower voice and talk nicely. I have had to do this for quite a few of mine, and for some reason it makes them giggle. They try not to whine (and fail) for quite a while. ANY attempt is praised. Even if it is not discernibly different, you know? And again, they may not even try until you have modeled it for them for weeks. Patience Endurance is the key on the part of Mama.

Also, you can put them in a chair, telling them that when they are quiet, you will help them. I also have a friend who, when her kids throw a big fit (and I have seen her do it with an older 2 yo, but that will vary by the particular maturity and personality of the child), she puts them in a chair for say, 1 minute. They have to be silent for one whole minute, then they can get up. If they fuss at all during the minute, she starts the timer over again. She says they learn it really quickly. I have seen it fail at her house, too. She just says in a very light tone that she is sorry, but they forgot to be quiet, so now the timer has to start over. And they understand. It seems to work very well for her.

---------- Post added at 07:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

Oh, and wanted to say, but forgot, that yeah, sometimes they are just going to yell and scream. It is :nails and :ph but some will just have to be tolerated while they are learning.

[bolt.]

It might help you if you think (and maybe talk to the kids) in terms of "taking turns" -- something like: "First I will get A some milk. Then I will get B some cereal. Then I will visit the washroom." You can answer whines with, "Yes, love I will. First my turn to do x, then your turn and I will get you y. Yes, I will, see, I'm almost done..."

---

You wrote that you are trying scripting the kids, asking them to say things in a normal voice before you will do the thing for them... that's actually a bit of an advanced stage of scripting.

The first stage of scripting is when you *do* the thing they whined for, but as you do it, *you* say, "I think you mean 'mama please milk' -- and yes, there you go!" You can expect to do that "I think you mean..." for a good month before they are going to pick up on it as a skill of their own that you can expect them to begin using.

Along with that first stage of scripting, if you have any times of the day where you aren't absolutely run off your feet doing the basics of food-and-shelter, I suggest you start "the voices game" -- where you teach them how to make 'a monster voice' and 'a birdie voice' and 'a truck voice' and 'a tiger voice' and 'a polite child voice' and 'a whiney voice' and 'a soldier voice' and... and... and...

These 'voices' should be mostly fun voices and the game should be a real giggley fun time for the kids. It just teaches, "I can say things using different voices. I can choose what my voice is going to sound like." Kids love that! It's got to be just a game for at least a few weeks before you begin working in more of the voices that you don't want to hear much of any more... and then a few weeks of that before you begin trying to draw the skills over to real life situations... and even then, try to transform a whine into a 'tiger voice' or something else that's a fun option before (finally) asking for them to use a 'polite child voice' in real situations.

I know that sounds like it's going to take forever. It won't. But it will take a month or more... but you've been enduring this state of things for more than a month already, and I know you are looking for things that are going to *work*. This is not going to work tomorrow or next week -- but if you can be consistent (which is a tall order in your circumstances!) and give these strategies daily attention for a few weeks, I think you will be impressed with the gradual improvement.

---

I want you to know that I always respect people who are doing hard things, and you are doing a really hard thing. I'm impressed that you are keeping your head above water, and I'm even more impressed that you are seeking out gentleness as a strategy for dealing with such a tough scenario.

You are between a rock and a hard place, because displeasing kids A and B leads to loud feelings that wake up kids C and D -- which drastically spikes how hard your situation is, so you feel like you have no choice but to try not to displease kids A and B... except that kids A and B are hard to please and get loud so easily that you are run off your feet and feel like they are making your choices for you.

They aren't really making your choices for you.

They are just having desires, and are pleased when their desires are met and displeased (loudly) when their desires are not met. That's so normal for their age, yet so SO hard when combined with sleeping baby twins. There's no malice in them, and no strategy in their strategies... their whims hit them out of the blue, and their disappointment is automatically translated into whining which escalates to fussing -- they don't make those choices as 'choices'... they are pretty much as much a victim of their immaturity as you are. There's no one to blame... I really hope the two strategies above help at least a little... but even if not, you will be a calmer more capable person as you cope if you try to remember that all 2/3 year olds have whims, whines and loud feelings. It's important not to give in to the (normal!) irrational urge to wonder why they are doing this to you. They can't help being little...

[Pilgrim]

I have no real life experience like yours or the other posters, but when I read your posts what stands out to me is that you need some sleep! (Oh, don't we all!) But, really, I would look to see if there is any way you can simplify your after-bedtime chores or lower your expectations of what is necessary to be done so that you can go to bed earlier. Everything may not get done, but everything is not getting done now either, because you aren't able to care for yourself.
:hug2

[MamaD]

I have no real life experience like yours or the other posters, but when I read your posts what stands out to me is that you need some sleep! (Oh, don't we all!) But, really, I would look to see if there is any way you can simplify your after-bedtime chores or lower your expectations of what is necessary to be done so that you can go to bed earlier. Everything may not get done, but everything is not getting done now either, because you aren't able to care for yourself.
:hug2
you know i wish it was that simple - simplify my after-bedtime chores or lower my expectations of what needs done so i can get more sleep. i'm feeling stressed just reading this (i know your intent is well and you are correct that sleep would help me). But it's not like it is said. I've looked days after days on what work i can eliminate to gain more sleep but im at the absolute bare minimum point where nothing else can be eliminated anymore and i'm also working the most effective, fastest way there is. I don't really have time and energy but feel like i need to explain how this isn't a case where there is anymore more "fat" to be cut out to make the process any "leaner" anymore. All meals & snakcs MUST be prepared & packed the night before (that includes, lunch, dinner, snacks, cut up all the fruits for next day, pack husband's lunch bag with lunch & snacks & fruits for the whole 12 hours that he's gone), and all our food (especially kids') for the day has to be individually packed such that when its' time to eat all I need to do is take a pre-made-plate out of the fridge (don't even have time to scoop it out of a container into a kids plate because most times i'd have 2 fussy babies who i'm trying to rock 1 & nurse the other while running to the bathroom to wipe one's poopy butt, clean the potty, and wash my hands to rush back into the kitchen to serve another child food, again, doing this whole skit while carrying 1 baby in 1 arm and nursing a baby in the other trying to make some rocking motion so one can fall asleep. do you see how i don't even have the extra hands here to scoop food out of a container in the fridge and put in a plate to serve? The plate has to be ready to be brought directly to the table when i take it out of the fridge. just as an example of how everything has to be ridiculously READY to use. and that's why there is no more room to cut any chores out at night. i cut anything else out i'd be in hell the next day for not having something handy. That's what meal time, in fact, EVERY MINUTE look like here. There is absolutely no time for anything, therefore it is cruicially important that EVERYTHING needed next day is made ready the night before. laundry - a ton just from the boys because they are messy & sometimes have pee pee accidents. cloth diapers (i can't get myself to use paper especially when we have to pay for 2x the diaper after already investing in cloth for previous kids), the whole kitchen is filled with piles of dishes from the whole day where i just keep throwing them in in the sink (overflows to the counter) after each meal. clothes have to be laid out 4 sets of clothing for 4 people including extra pants for accidents. need to clean the dining & kitchen floor daily because the kids drop food crumbs and stuff all over all day. need to clean the rest of the house floor once a week as bare minimum with messy kids. need to get kitchen counter back in shape from mess in the whole day so that i can cook & prep meals again for next day when at night, not to mention the actual cooking alone. need to check playroom, rotate toys or put out something for tomorrow's entertainment, etc. need to get laundry pile off the couch so boys don't start throwing clothes in the air tomorrow.....endless. and they are ALL necessary in order for us to "survive" the next day. bathroom needs cleaning daily (don't know what it is about little boys that just don't like to keep their pee INSIDE the toilet and it stinks!) notice i never say anything about dusting? it's all daily operation chores, not "keep my house pretty" chores. Enough!

I just spent way too much energy expalining how there is no more chores to simplify or make effecient. But sometimes i feel like a real idiot when i hear simple suggestions saying why not just do this (for example, simplify chores so i can sleep) and i can't simplify it anymore i feel like an idiot. Although i think unless someone has twin babies (which is challenging in itself) plus a toddler with SPD and 3 year old, it is just hard to understand the logistical challenges (and physical impossibilities) of every minute. I get friends suggesting I "just put the babies in strollers & go for a walk with the kids" (not knowing that the babies are real babies that cry in seats & need feedings almost all the time, they are not dolls that just can just put down and be. and that the kids are real kids that sometimes don't listen so well and takes off to the middle of the the street without me just for fun, and that if a baby is crying needs to be taken out of the stroller or fed, i'd have no hand to grab the kid that's gonna take off to the street, you know. a lot of people don't see that and it makes me feel like a real idiot that i can't even "just put them all in a stroler & go for a walk!" a walk in the neighborhood with these people is not a breeze!

bolt's suggestions were very helpful. will try to try....thank you for that. keep more coming. mimicing their whine for them doesn't work for us, makes it worse.

[Hilary316]

I agree on the need for sleep! I am always 1000x more frustrated, angry, and snappy if Im low on sleep! If Im wellrested (umm hasnt happened in awhile lol) I can handle so much more and it doesnt phase me as much.

[MegMarch]

Hats off to you, OP, for even keeping everyone alive. There is SO much on your shoulders right now and I have no advice but one suggestion- can you use paper plates? Not for life, but for a bit? To cut down a smidge on the dishes?
:hugheart

[ValiantJoy07]

:hugheart

I had 3 in 4 years and this past year has been :crazy

Real quick and I will be back....I only get my kids dressed on the days we have to be some where :shifty it just.isn't.worth.it.

We do the "take turns" thing bolt (I think?) Mentioned :yes it worked well :yes

Bbl

[illinoismommy]

I had 3 under 3 once all in diapers plus the 5yo, not quite as hard but four is a handful. Can you get help? A housekeeper? Teenager to do laundry? Preschool twice a week for the oldest? Don't know how old the babies are but hang in there it gets better.

I totally get that you're too tired to do much fancy work so ill just say, accept there will be screaming. Sometimes 3 kids at once. I used to joke if only one is crying we're doing pretty good. They're older now and not so much crying, mainly the 3yo.

-accept crying
-find house help

[ShangriLewis]

Where is your husband in all of this?

If you have a lot of little kids in a row, things are going to be hard and kids are going to whine. It sounds like you are doing your best.

Can you afford to hire a teen to come in and help?

[ArmsOfLove]

Your children really are just being their ages. It was suggested back on the first page, but I would encourage you to look into the series by Ames and Ilg called "Your ___ Year Old" and get the ones for your children's ages. Starting from "Your 3 Year Old" I don't endorse all of the discipline ideas, but you will be comforted to know that your children are normal and doing what all children their age do. Toddlers whine :shrug3 I tell them I don't speak Whinese and encourage them to try again, but I also cope with it and move on. They eventually grow out of it (I actually think that the changing shape of their skull as they grow may cause nasal development that leads to whining that develops certain necessary language/tonal abilities).

You may also want to check out my site www.aolff.org

it's hard to have lots of littles. And if you're noise sensitive, you might want to put some ear plugs in - you should still be able to hear, it will just be muted a bit. I have this problem when I'm hormonal.

[walkwallfall]

I have 3 kids 3 and under. Let me affirm how incredibly exhausting, difficult, trying and frustrating it is. And you have more than I do. I am still a beginner with GBD so I have little advice.

I do agree that GBD BEGINS with expectations. I don't call my 3.5 year old a "child." I refer to her as a baby and it gives me the freedom to treat her such. Just as infants have different stages of development and ability, so do 3 year olds. I have given up EXPECTING her to have adult qualities - I try to model everything and tell her what I'm doing while I'm doing it. I.E. Mommy is waiting patiently for her sandwich. See how cheerful I am? It doesnt stop the whining but it does help a little.

Let me affirm again, the path you have (and I have) is INCREDIBLY difficult. It is exhausting to juggle the needs of four babies. And it will feel that they are running the show for a while. I feel that every day. It's not because you're a bad parent, it's because the children literally are built that way.


It may be a good time to look into getting YOUR needs met as well. When I get overly stressed I know that I NEED to get away, take a bubble bath or just go out with a friend for a little bit. Everyone recharges differently, maybe you'll feel less overwhelmed?

Hugs to you and remember that this too will pass. :)

[Housekat]

:hug I have no concrete advice, as I'm nowhere near as thinly stretched as you, but I thought I'd offer some observations from reading your posts.

You sound incredibly frustrated and angry. I have no idea as to your resources, but is there any way you can buy in some help? Maybe even a teen who comes and plays with your olders once or twice a week so you can concentrate on you and the twins?

Where is your partner in all this? Is he available at all to help?

The problem with offering concrete solutions to your problems is that the main issue of having four kids three and under is not going to go away. There are certain things associated to that situation that need to be managed until they go away - and you simply will have major problems trying to do that alone.

So - the one thing that I'm trying to say - get help. Anyway, anyhow. Parents, in-laws, partner, neighbours, mother's helper, au pair, babysitter, nanny, daycare, whatever you need. You sound close to breakdown and you NEED to water down the workload for you. Twins alone would be difficult, but three months old twins with two toddlers?? :hug :hug :hug We were never meant to do this alone, mama

[ValiantJoy07]

I say this gently but why isn't dh packing his own food? I would be involving him in this aspect *big* time. He should be able to do that at least -after helping you once or twice....he should be able to take over.

House work and food isn't just mama's job. :no my husband is gone nearly 12 hours a day too...he still comes home and cooks dinner 3-4 nights a week for our family...especially when the baby was smaller. We're a team and something had to give. He also fed the older kids breakfast (or left it on the stove for us) every day her first year.

I picked three things i needed daily from him to stay sane...it was 1. breakfast 2. Dishwasher emptied in the morning and 3. :scratch I think vacuuming early on pp

Delegate.:yes if you can't there are bigger fish to fry. :(

[Llee]

Dh is gone 10ish hours and packs his own lunch and takes care of his clothes. Now that they're not 18ishmonths old, the girls pick out their outfits. Sometimes u have them get all of them out for the week on Sunday, sometimes the night before, sometimes right before we leave. On weekends and when we have company, we use paper plates and cups. Dh does dishes and helps the kids clean up their kid cave.

[MamaD]

Thanks. You can all sense that i'm not keeping sane,huh.quiet the truth! I cried in front of all the kids almost every morning of this week!

where is my husband in all of this? in a stressful job and communiting 2 hours a day to make a living for us all (and thankful to have a job). He vaccums the upstairs once a week, takes trash out, fixes everything in the house that the kids break, mows the lawn and takes care of the front & back yard, watches some of the kids on weekends when i take one to run errands & grocery, bathes all 4 kids every night (or as frequently as needed) everynight, brushes their teeth, puts jammies on, puts them to sleep while i rock babies to sleep, and then sometimes rocks a stuburn baby who i cannot rock to sleep before i'm too tired after putting boys to sleep. Helps to picks up everything i fail to do because i either crashed or am still busy doing some other chore. After all that he sits down in front of the computer,pays bills, takes care of home paperwork, and does more work for his job. Then sleep for 4 hours before he wakes up at 6am to help boys use the restroom when they first wake up while i feed babies,then rushes to work before traffic hits. He's already picking up a lot of the load but remember that he has a 2 hour drive daily to work and additional work to do too so if I ask him to do anymore, then he wouldn't be getting any sleep at all. i'd worry about him driving with only 4 hours of sleep.

Lots of suggestion about hiring help. (by the way, no family around, moved here only 1 year ago, no very close available friends either). i've been trying that since before babies came. but hard to find help that actually "helps". (gotta go, will explain later). tried several sitters, rule inconsistencies, can't get sitters to discipline or interact the way i do and boys just go crazy after sitter is gone. housekeepers rarely pick up all the stuff on the floor to clean, doesn't clean under bed or couch, causing dust to fly around..... and they are not cheap, none is cheap, so decided not to spend money if i have to clean up before and after the maid anyways, just save the money and do it myself.

[walkwallfall]

I want to offer something but I dont want it to come across badly, have you considered the possibility that you might have PPD?

[TenderLovingWillow]

:hug

I'm so glad your DH is stepping in and getting stuff done. Some men don't get how insane being a mom of littles is. :hug

I wish I lived close enough to come over and let our bigs play while helping you out. :hug

---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

I want to offer something but I dont want it to come across badly, have you considered the fact that you might have PPD?

And this. You sound similar to me when I have PPD.

[Little Forest]

:hugheart What an incredibly big load for you and your DH. I hope it gets easier for you and you start feeling more on top of things soon and that the scripting from Bolt makes a difference for you with the whining!
Posted via Mobile Device

[walkwallfall]

I offer it because I have PPD this time and you sound similar to me when I had in uncontrolled. :(

I talked a therapist asking her to get my kids under control and after 30 minutes of me complaining about how awful they were behaving, she gently offered that it wasn't them having the problems, it was me throwing everything off. She said that my stress load was considerable but that I need to put the oxygen mask on myself first before I can help anyone else.

[bolt.]

I'm going to add my opinion to "yes" on the paper plates and other disposable dishes. I'd also re-consider daily baths (twice a week is usually sufficient) and reccomending reducing teeth brushing to once per day. Not dressing the kids (unless its strictly nessisary) would also help, I think... And a season of disposable diapers wouldn't be a problem, if its short term.

Every little bit helps when you are as run off your feet as you are.

Also, try to remember that praying is not another "to do" so, when I mention it, I'm not trying to add to your burdens or make you feel bad in any way. Many people find that running a commentary prayer to the Holy Spirit and just asking Him to coach your heart and do whatever is best in your life actually is both personally soothing and practically helpful.

When you cry, you do not cry alone: for one thing, you are a family, and it's ok to cry together. For another thing, Jesus is nearer to you than a brother. He would never let you walk this path alone.

And, (I know most women think this is insulting / attacking to even suggest) but, as others have mentioned, you are writing out some little smoke signals that lead those of us who are "in the know" to think this might (aside from actually being the hardest thing you've done in your life) that it might involve your body's chemicals and hormones having some trouble setting into 'normal' mode after 'pregnancy mode'. If that is happening, please don't hide from it. It happens ALL THE TIME... to perfectly normal women. Getting medical help with those chemicals / hormones might be just the extra bit of assistance you need in order to cope better.

[Love_Is_Patient]

I'm just going to throw out some ideas in case they might help with getting the kids food issues. No need to explain if they won't work (lots of reasons they might not), you can take them or leave them.

Consider ways you could equip the 2 and 3 yr old to help themselves, particularly since you've already gotten all the food ready to go beforehand.

Maybe:
Use plastic plates, color coded by person, so if the three yr old is hungry you can say, 'ok, get the blue plate from the bottom shelf of the fridge and take it to the table'

Put snacks in muffin tins on the bottom shelf of the fridge so they can help themselves when they're hungry but it's not a mealtime.

Move the nursing chair beside the table so that you can nurse/rock the babies and help the bigger ones with food at the same time.

Move a chair into the kitchen so that you could nurse/rock while doling out food from the fridge yourself.

Move things like silverware, plastic cups or plates, etc. into lower drawers/cabinets that the 3 yr old could fetch things from.

Don't be afraid to say 'wait' to the bigger ones--even if they're upset. Try saying 'I can get that for you in a few minutes, or you can get it for yourself now'

It's ok to say 'no', too--for example, in your OP if a child has poured all of their milk into their cereal, I might not jump up to pour them more. It would be ok to say 'eat your cereal first' or 'more milk after you eat your breakfast'. (I'm not saying that you were wrong to pour more milk--just that when you're being pulled in a hundred different ways, that's one of the ones that could be put off without guilt).

Don't know if any of that could help, but I'm keeping you in my prayers as you keep on in a very demanding/difficult season.

[Charity]

mama that sounds so difficult!!! The only experience I have with this is watching a friend in this same situation. I have been able to visit this friend a couple of times to try to be positive and helpful but I know my 1x visit every 2wks or so don't help much in the grand scheme of things.

It sounds like you are VERY stressed & nearly too busy to think or take care of yourself. I don't want to add any burden to you but want to gently suggest you begin to focus on yourself a bit for your own sanity. Do your littles all nap? Are you able to nap for a bit with them? How is your diet and are you taking any vitamins or supplements for your general health & energy? I also suggest seeing someone for possible ppd. I know my most regretful parenting moments have happened when I am too stressed or tired and overreact to a situation resulting in me not being the gentle mama I desire to be.

Hugs and prayers for you. You have a lot on your plate! Do you know if you are close by to any other gcm mamas? Sounds like you need some real life support as well.


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[ArmsOfLove]

I want to also add that you have twins. That is a huge statement and I do not at all think you are making allowance in your expectations for the amount of energy and care and self-sacrifice it takes to have twins. When my twins were babies *I* was so sick that the three of us stayed in bed most of the time for 9 months and I parented from there. BUT I had a 7/8 year old and a 5/6 year old and a 3 year old so it was a little easier to get their attention (at least the older ones). I'm still working with the 3yo (now 11) on overcoming some of the challenges from that season.

There is no magic bit that makes children not their ages; there is no perfect parent who doesn't have their children go through age appropriate stages. It's okay to just be the imperfect you who is doing the best she can and work with your children on the areas they are dealing with (even if it's not the ones you want them to be caught up to yet :hugheart )

If you have ANY network around you for support and help, call upon them. If you can hire help, do it. And the things you can let go for now (stop folding laundry and give each person a basket for clean clothes) let it go. You need self care and lots and lots of baby care and that has to be the priority. That won't be forever and you can change later. You will get there. Just embrace where you are and be okay with it and everything else settles around that :hug

[ShangriLewis]

Have you seen if there are any GCM's in your area? They might be able to hook you up with a good church or a homeschool group.

If you could find a homeschool family with some older children you could have them come into your home. A large family will most likely have kids that are good with other children and know how to delegate and get chores done right.

Is moving closer to your husband's work a possibility?

If you are not using that money for a helper, then use it for paper plates and disposable diapers. Get them from Costco if you shop there or order from Amazon. You can even have them shipped at a certain time to make sure you do not run out.

Do you do a menu each week? It helped me to not have to think about what to eat. It was posted and it gave me some auto-drive.

[lucie]

Wow, this sounds really challenging! I can't even imagine! You're getting some great advice--I was just going to say (not sure if anybody suggested it yet) that if the kids do need to be dressed, then maybe you could have them sleep in their next day clothes? That way they'd wake up already dressed. :-)
Also, don't know about your dietary requirements, but I wouldn't be at all afraid of prepackaged snacks like granola bars, things like that. Bonus--they can grab them themselves.


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[flyfishgirl]

What a handful you are dealing with! :hugheart I think one of the most important things you can do is begin to take care of yourself. Make sure you go to the bathroom when you need to and make sure you are eating and sleeping. I made this same mistake when my two boys (nearly 3 and 5 now) were smaller. We had a lot of life changes and upheaval and it was pure chaos. I convinced myself that I did not have time to do any of these things. I ended up severely exhausted, sick, irritable and isolated. At the very least, please make sure you eat regularly and get to the bathroom when you need to. I understand how difficult it can be to get sleep with babies and toddlers, but try to get as much as possible. If you are able to meet your basic needs you may be able to handle all the stress better which might help to calm the kids down too. One thing that is helping me enormously is writing down lists and prioritizing. If I don't do this I still get totally overwhelmed.

[mommy2abigail]

:hugheart:hugheart:hugheartLots of hugs. That sounds totally overwhelming. I haven't read all of the replies, but here are some quick ideas-
Make meal time EASY. Sippy cups for both kids. Paper plates for a while. Same foods rotated, like cereal or bagel with cream cheese, frozen yogurt tubes. Finger foods when possible that aren't too messy.
Can you hire a mothers helper? Or a house keeper?
Give the toddlers 'jobs' and pay them with pennies or m and m's. They can use a squirt bottle with water and rags to 'clean' the table, highchair, ect.
Preschool? Moms day out program?

[JoEllen]

Oh, sweetheart! You sound so overwhelmed! My mother raised seven children, and I remember she always said that you never really become a parent until you have more children than you have arms. :hugheart

[arymanth]

I'll just chime in to agree with the general consensus.... you are in a very stressful position at this moment in your life. I have seven kids, but they were not one right on top of the other, and no twins, and having littles was challenging for me. If you only had one baby, or one older child and a set of twins or no older kids things would be different, but you are facing trying to meet the needs of four small people, and that is a HARD job. They can't help needing you, and you can't clone yourself and be 4 different people to do the job, so you are feeling stretched incredibly thin, which makes you frustrated and resentful.

I strongly suggest streamlining your life as much as humanly possible for now. Paper plates and easy meals. Baby proofing and putting away everything you can in storage so you don't have to guard it or clean it. (like, no decorative items on low surfaces where kids can reach, pare down on the toys, cabinet locks on every single door... go for the minimalist look, it REALLY, REALLY helps!!!) I repeat... FEWER TOYS. This sounds counter productive if you are trying to get your kids to entertain themselves while you take care of the babies, but when you have a ton of toys, they tend not to play with them, they just make a mess with them that you have to clean up. Keep out no more toys than you can easily pick up in 5 minutes or less. Trust me, this HELPS TREMENDOUSLY with the mess, and by extension, your stress.

GET HELP... ASK EVERYONE!!! Friends, relatives, distant relatives, church family, neighbors... YOU NEED IT! There is no reason to make yourself a martyr because you can't do this job alone! Ask for help, and keep asking until you find some! You need extra hands because you are not an octopus. Call a local homeschooling group and see if you can find someone to be a "mother's helper". Sit down and take the time to find the help you need, or you are going to burn out and not be able to keep going. Voice of experience speaking here... you are running in crisis mode, and you will crash and burn without support.

:hugheart Hang in there, momma, this is a challenging time, but once you get through it, it gets soooooo much easier! GET HELP wherever and however you can manage it.

I imagine you have little to no time for reading (I don't) but if you haven't read it yet, Playful Parenting can be an awesome tool for helping deal with frustrations with your older two. It completely changed my view of toddlers/preschoolers and made me a much better, less stressed out mom.

[BlessedBookworm]

Wowsers!! OP You have an awesome husband!!!:D

[Doc]

I really feel for you OP - an incredibly difficult, exasperating situation. I had a 2 year old and hyperemesis (not the same situation at all, but it was hideous) and the TV was my best friend. We even named it Barbara because it became the nanny for a while. I never wanted to be that parent that had to use TV to take care of my child, but if you don't have help, then sometimes an hour or two if appropriate TV is a lifesaver. It won't last forever. Be kind to yourself.

[satin.mama]

I will pray for you, mama - you have such a full plate I can't even imagine.

I kind of sense that you are somewhere where I realize I have been when I crash and burn: trying to make everyone happy. And I believe that it's just not going to be possible for all 4 of your little ones to be happy all of the time. There will probably be times when none of them is, but that doesn't mean that YOU are not doing the best you can in that moment, so you don't need to feel like it all rests on your shoulders. Do you know what I mean? Not taking on the responsibility for everyone being happy? I really tend to do this, and it affects my mood and ability to cope enormously. And that's just with 2 kids who are 3 years apart. So I can imagine it being, oh, quadrupled or so in your situation.

I know you don't want the whining to wake up the babies. But I wonder if it might help long-term (and maybe not even that LONG-long-term) to start responding to the olders' needs differently - like people have suggested, explaining that they have to wait for such-and-such because it's someone else's turn and not giving in because of the whining. It's not that they are purposely "being manipulative" or anything, but as long as whining continues to get them what they want, there's no real reason for them to stop, do you know what I mean?

You are obviously already fulfilling your responsibilities to your children as far as taking care of their physical needs. It sounds like you are super good at finding out what works for you in routines. Maybe you can try some of the paper plate etc. ideas - and personally, I would reconsider the diaper thing, as someone else said, just for a season. If it helps your sanity, it would be totally worth it. I've even considered disposables lately and I only have 2! You don't need to feel like it's a "failure" or a waste or something to try to simplify in such ways.

I asked my babywearing group about how to wear twins, as it occurred to me that that might make it easier, especially if you could nurse one of them in the sling hands-free. Or at least they could sleep there or at least not be crying while you're helping the olders. Here is the info I got (perhaps this might also help make walks possible, if the babies were happy being worn on your body?):

You can wear one on your front and one on the back. If they are really little you can wear them both on the front.
There are many woven wrap examples...Both on front: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKHwW-eotjc One on front and one on back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98Mho8BvtyU. Also, if you want to do one in front and one in back, any two carriers can work.
You can also have a baby on the back in a SSC [soft structured carrier, ex. Ergo] and then use a shorty woven wrap and tie it like a ruck but through the SSC straps.
I mainly tandem-wear with a size 6 [woven wrap] and start with one of my boys on my back in a ruck but make the ruck straps cross in the front as FCC [front cross carry] and wear the second twin in that. We are still perfecting that way though as I find baby in the front to be quite high. But like anything practice makes perfect!


Your original post practically gave me heart palpitations. You are doing such a hard thing. And I second (or third or millionth or whatever it is by now) the idea to GET PRACTICAL HELP. The best way I've found, as we have no family here and I also have a husband very busy with work, is to get a teenage girl over (we found a homeschooler so she could come in the daytime). It felt awkward at first, but just sit there nursing and tell her what to do. "Now could you please sweep the floor? And now do you mind throwing in a load of laundry? Could you just play with the boys for awhile so I can nap with the twins? Can you wash those pots and pans?" Etc. If you can find a sweet girl, she will love helping, I promise. Plus it's great practice for teen girls! And your part is to initially teach her how your laundry machines work etc., and then lower your standards in case she doesn't sweep as thoroughly as you. And don't do it over. You don't have time, you need to be able to eat and pee. Any help is better than no help!

I hope that helps and doesn't come across in any wrong way. Of course I don't know what will work and not work in your life. But I hope there is something helpful in there. Good luck Mama. You are so strong.

[RedTulipMom]

Sounds like a very difficult season of life and i totally understand why you are feeling so burnt out! Been burnt out myself at times, with homeschooling, and littles and being in my 40s. I dont know if anyone suggested it yet but my friend who had twins used the swing ALOT. There always seemed to be one twin in the swing at all times. Also when old enough a bumbo or bouncy chair. Babies love swinging and they can even nap in the swing. (maybe you already using that, i dont know:shrug3) Definitely wearing atleast one twin in a wrap or sling most of the time, even if your not comfortable wearing two at a time, would be helpful. you could be wearing one and having the other in a swing or something. Just trying to make some helpful suggestions but i probably am not doing a great job. I have a cousin with 6 children and two sets of twins, and there was a point in time she couldn't survive without someone, whether, family, friend, or someone from church were at her house atleast a few hours every day! Reach out! Tell family and friends "I need Help!" because you DO!!!! I will pray for you!!!:hug2

[jenny_islander]

In response to latest question: let them whine and GO PEE. I get that its really annoying but it is okay to have them wait, too. You need to eat so eat. You cannot let your fear of them screaming and crying make you not take care of yourself. Sometimes babies cry. :shrug Come to peace with that fact and you'll feel less anxiety about jumping to make them happy before they cry. Learning that sometimes they need to wait starts now, even if they don't get it yet.

Yes, this. I have had more bathroom time than I can count with a toddler screaming and banging on the other side of the door because he wanted to play the "I only feel secure when Mommy is 3 feet away from me and hanging on my every word" game RIGHT NOW. But I had to pee and I am not a nice person without my shower. So, kiddo, sorry if you changed your mind about the video you picked out for my shower time and suddenly decided that the toast and jam you requested is the most awful thing in the world. You'll have to wait.

ETA: I tend to believe that when you have more cuddlers than you have arms, or more nurslings than you have breasts, it's time to get a helper. It sounds as though you have both!

ETA 2: The difference between attachment parenting and child training in this respect is that attachment parenting recognizes that there are going to be times when the baby or tiny child has to be uncomfortable, miss you, feel angry, etc., because parents have to take care of themselves too or may face a welter of obligations that they cannot fulfill simultaneously. Child training generally preaches the value of creating upset, loneliness, fear, anger, frustration, etc., in a baby or child in order to teach something nonsensical, such as servanthood (in someone who can't even wipe her own bottom) or independence (in somebody who is totally reliant because they are totally immobile, but that's a whole 'nother rant).