Dietary Processing to heal DD's teeth

[Luciola]

DD had surgery this week to address the chronic dental carries on her teeth and we found out that what she has is actually Enamel Dysplasia. (I should add that I am almost positive that this is from my side of the family because my grandpa had "weak enamel" and had dentures very young. I don't have cavities, but I do have ridiculously sensitive teeth.) I've been reading some about the Weston A. Price diet and I'm getting the Nourishing Traditions book and hopefully Curing Tooth Decay from the library this week. I've also read about a link between celiac and enamel dysplasia. I'm a veg and we eat a ton of grains. I am pretty health conscious but our diet has been slipping the last few months. DH is not veg and we had agreed to start E eating organic chicken around her second birthday (which is now less than a month away!!) I bought beef bones from WF Thursday night and I'm planning to make stock with them tonight. I don't even know where to start with cutting gluten or grains out of our diet. I used to think the WP/NT diet had some gems in it but was overall a bit wonky. Where do I begin with this stuff? How do I know what's working? Will fermenting or soaking grains mean I can use them? I've been entertaining the idea that DD may have a dairy sensitivity for quite some time, but I never made the jump. She wakes really often at night, is very high energy/high needs, and had terrible reflux as a baby. I had OALD and oversupply and she has a lip tie. I don't know what's what or which way is up anymore. I'm willing to totally revamp our diet but I don't know where to start and I need y'all to hold my hand. How can I even begin to sort out which symptoms go with which food needs?

P.S. If she is dairy free, is it even possible to do a Weston Price style diet while dairy free?
P.P.S. Is this better in the dietary challenges forum? If so, could it be moved? Thanks!

[WildFlower]

I would check out Dr Ellie's protocol as well. We tried the cod liver oil and butter oil. Just to warn you, it's NASTY. It's hard to get a toddler to take something that doesn't take good. I think it CAN work. I would also try cell salts as well . They are easy to do and toddler like them.The cell salts and minerals kind of that our bodies need and sometimes lack. :hug2

[Luciola]

We just got the xylitol paste, I think that is part of Dr. Ellie's protocol. I know I have that somewhere around here. Thanks for the cell salts idea, I will look into that.

I'm confused about the Cod Liver/Butter Oil. Is the main thing the Vitamin D? (And Vitamin K maybe?) How is the extract any better than actual butter and Vitamin D in your diet? I take Vitamin D and could give the drops to DD if needed. I'm uncomfortable with consuming liver because our bodies process so much junk out through our livers - why would we want to eat the liver of another creature? If it's needed, I would do it though. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just have a lot of questions.

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

Ok, quickly looking, I found Hyland's sells like 14 different types of cell salts. It looks the 12 Schuessler named, and then 2 other kinds. Are they ever all mixed together? Do I need all the kinds?

[WildFlower]

you don't need ALL the cell salts. I think you need Calc fluor , silicea and either calc phos or mag phos, I can't remember of the last two which ones. I think you said your dd doesn't do any dairy? Does she have an allergy? Because Hylands is in a dairy base. Actually alot of the cell salts are. I read some article, which I'll look for, that talked about cell salts more and what they are good for. I think you can find them in other bases but it's hard to find.

I too agree with you on the liver thing. I am not sure that I understand the whole point of the cod liver oil. Maybe someone else will come along and explain that better.:scratch I started giving dd a vitamin d capsule and she will just chew those up fine. And no liver involved! I think the butter oil, they say is because of Vitamin K2 which is really hard for us to find naturally except in grassfed cows milk . Cows get it from the fresh spring grass and then it's in their millk Somehow the K2 works WITH the vitamin d to help build bones and teeth and repair them. The K2 was a different vitamin than just plain vitamin K. Essentially I think that's what the science was behind the codliver oil and butter oil combo for teeth repair. I like alot of weston A price's stuff. And i think what he says about missing nutrients really makes sense and the modern diet causing tooth decay. Rami Nagel has put out a whole book based on some of W.A. P stuff but his stuff seems too far fetched to me. He was vegetarian and his teeth were decaying and so were his daughters. They went back to eating meat, liver, fermented foods, and raw milk. His idea is that the raw milk is essential as is fermented foods for tooth repair. Honestly with dd's teeth, we tried the cod liver oil for about 2 months and didn't see any immprovement. It wasn't realistic for us to cut out ALL grains , we couldn't find raw milk, and all the food stuff that Rami Nagel promoted was just too much for us to realistically do. I know people HAVE done it and it CAN work, but I don't think it's the ONLY way either. :shifty

I have done hours upon hours of my own research trying to figure out WHY our dd's teeth were decayed and what to do about it naturally. It came down the point that doing natural stuff and waiting around for them to heal wasn't working. They were getting worse, really worse and she wasn't eating well at all. I didn't know if she wasn't gaining weight because of her aweful cavities or because of something else. So we opted to go ahead with the dental surgery under sedation and get them all fixed. She has 6 crowns. I feel like now that we have a "clean slate" so to speak.
The dentist just blamed it all on sugar and night nursing as well. He said it's the FREQUENCY of sugar. I don't believe it was sugar for her that caused it. To be really really honest? :shifty I think there are ALOT of factors that weigh into tooth decay. If your dd has tooth enamel dysplasia it really could be genetic or something during pregnancy. That makes her more susceptible. I think some people are more suseptible and some get it because of the way they eat, some people get decay despite everything they do RIGHT. I think the bacteria strep Mutans that causes decay is HUGE factor. If you don't have the bacteria you aren't going to get cavities. Personally that's my opinion. I know Rami Nagel says that the bacteria are everywhere and you can't get rid of them and so it's all just diet related. But they (dentists) have done tests and found that people who have cavities carry that bacteria and people who do not have cavities do not have the bacteria. They also say mothers transmit the bacteria to their children most of the time by sharing food, kissing, drinking after each other etc. I think this is very highly plausible. And once you have the bacteria if you are at higher risk for decay, it's more likely. risk factors being genetics, weak enamel, highly acid mouth , mouth breathing, the frequency of sugar intake, the food we eat, etc. Sometimes it may only take a couple of the risk factors and decay results.

I know for a fact that my DH and I have never had a single cavity. We eat healthy and dd has never had a single piece of candy in her life. She didn't discover icecream till after she already had all the cavities in her mouth. So she must have gotten the bacteria somewhere else. my in-laws and my parents all have at least ONE crown or filling. Thus the bacteria is around. But dd must be at risk somehow. I know she mouth breathes :shrug3 Anyway...

Anyway, I think the xylitol protocol seems to be a good idea because it is supposed to actually help get rid of the bacteria for good and make the mouth less acidic. The fluoride (I know it's controversial but it was said to me that with the risk factors involved and the amount of decay dd had, that the pros outweighed the cons) works with xylitol to help build and strengthen enamel.

So at our house we are just trying to keep sugar to a minimum. I try hard not to have an over abundance of wheat products. I am trying to get the proper amount of xylitol into dd daily and brush her teeth 2 x a day with natural fluoride tooth paste. Dr Ellies protocol says ACT fluoride rinse but she hates it, so I am hoping the fluoride paste will be good enough:nails and we also brush with xylitol toothpaste after every meal as well. There are no if's and's or buts about brushing before bed. I think the biggest mistake I made was not brushing her teeth before bed when she first got teeth. I know she had alot of fruit and stuff when she was little and then I was so overwhelmed and she went to bed many nights without me brushing her teeth even once during the day. :doh I remember asking the Dr at 12 months old when I should start brushing her teeth and they said "oh now is fine, with a damp wash cloth and some water":shifty I am a first time mom, I was overwhelmed and running on little sleep and didn't even think to start brushing her teeth when they came in. Thats my biggest regret. And if i could go back and do that over, I think it may have helped some because she had brown spots on her teeth at 12 months old.:(

Anyway, forgive my ramblings. I hope this helps. If you need any links or anything let me know. I have tons. :shifty I'll try to find the one about cell salts

[Luciola]

I can't respond to everything right now, trying to get a few other things done, but thank you so much. I appreciate the time it takes to write all that out. I am doing all the research I can right now. I am almost certain DD's is genetic. Plus I had antibiotics during labor for GBS which now of course I wish I had known about the natural ways to treat that. I got the "your baby will die" if you don't do this speech from my OB. I've read several people talk about the link between antibiotics during pregnancy and tooth decay. I'd like to see a paper on it if anyone has a link. Everything I've read has just been people *talking* about this link.

What I understand about Vitamin K is that it is in plants but it's really hard to synthesize. Essentially, the cows do the synthesizing into the other kind of Vitamin K for us. If we are doing grass fed bone broth, I am thinking that would have the Vit K needed?

DD isn't dairy free, it's just something else I've been wondering about doing.

[WildFlower]

you said something about antibiotics during labor for GBS. I had that too!:-/ I have never fully figured out what kind of antibiotics DO cause tooth enamel issues, but I "thought" it wasnt' the type of antibiotics I had for GBS. But I'm not fully sure and don't really know what antibiotics do cause that. I thought their teeth formed earlier on in pregnancy but not sure. :scratch

[Luciola]

That actually makes me feel a lot better - that was what I meant about not having any real info about the antibiotics. I know the teeth form early in pg, so if it's only certain kinds of abx that affect the teeth, it would make sense that the abx for GBS in labor don't affect them. As I said though, I'm pretty sure that our issue is genetic.

DH is now questioning the Dx. We have had a lot of trouble with this dentist, and I am confused why the first 5 looks into her mouth by 3 different dentists didn't show anything about it. However, I'm thinking DH is hoping that by believing it isn't true that it will go away. That's usually my department while he is much more realistic and practical, so I'm kind of thrown by that. We need to schedule a follow up with her dentist in a month, so hopefully he will have more info for us.

I bought the cell salts that had the combo as that was the only one at our local store. I got the kids version of Vit D drops also.

DD had cavities before she ever had sugar but she did have a lot of fruit as a baby and practically no brushing because I didn't know any better. She would brush her own teeth every night and I though, Oh awesome! She is having a great experience with teeth brushing. She will grow up to be someone who loves brushing her teeth! Ha! It's awful and she hates teeth brushing now.

We are doing fluoride and now xylitol too. From what I've read, the risks of fluoride are lower when you are just brushing it on the teeth rather than taking the supplements. Plus we have city water so its unavoidable that she gets some. We do try to get her the RO water, but that's not always possible to have plus not practical to say, cook pasta in, so she is going to get some of it occasionally.

I do feel like we have a clean slate now too. I wish she hadn't had to have the surgery, but it was truly at the point where it was needed. I'm feeling like gluten free is something to do but I'm also feeling totally overwhelmed by it. I had some bone broth today but it's been quite a while since I ate meat or beef, so I'm waiting to see how I tolerate it.

[WildFlower]

http://mirandacastro.com/articles/CellSalts.htm

I almost forgot to find that link for you on cell salts! I thought this was helpful. It was hard to find good info on cell salts, just lots of other moms talking about it on forums but not actual specifics on what they are used for etc. This was the best overview I found.

I bought hylands through vitacost.com You can buy each individual one in different strengths. I can look at what we have if you want me too.

FWIW we aren't gluten free here either. I having been thinking we should try it but not convinced it will help her teeth. I think I need to now because I have been having some digestive problems, and mood issues that I want to see if going gluten free will help. If it DOES then I am certain dd will need to be gluten free too. I really didn't feel it was best to cut out too much other than sugars and unhealthy stuff like processed stuff cakes/cookies etc. when dd was having trouble gaining weight. She is doing better with eating and gaining weight now and I feel it would be ok to cut out the gluten. Surprisingly she started eating better after her dental surgery. I don't know if that is because her teeth were really bothering her that much when she ate or because she was nursing so much. I did start putting some nursing limits on her around the same time. She still nurses and through the night too but I started offering her water or a snack or distracting her throughout the day instead of nursing every time she wanted. She started eating better soon after, but that was after her surgery. So I am not sure what really helped there.

It does sound like with your dd that there is a definate genetic component to all this. I think that makes her more susceptible to decay. When they gave you the diagnosis , I am curious did she have actual cavities? Or just enamel issues that were leading to cavities? I think I remember seeing something on a dentist blog about hyperplasia and they showed white lines or something. I can't remember. I really don't completely trust the dentists when they say WHAT caused or causes the decay considering it doesn't add up. I think they are mostly trained on how to "fix" teeth but not really how to prevent anything other than avoiding sugar and brushing/ cleaning:shrug3 It's only people like us and others who find that the info doesn't add up that start looking into other causes and ways to prevent it from re-occuring. When you eat a healthy diet and do everything "right" , or even mostly right and still they get cavities but other people who feed there kids all kinds of junk and drink juice and soda all the time and never ever have cavities, what the dentists say doesn't always add up.

Anyway, I just want you to know you aren't alone. I still struggle with fear that she'll have cavities again but I am more at peace with what has happened since the surgery is over. I just :pray4 she won't have to keep going through it. :hug2 It's been probably the most stressful thing we've dealt with since having dd. But that said, when I think about it, it could be SO much worse, and I am so thankful that her only health problems are her teeth and nothing more serious.

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

http://www.1-800homeopathy.com here's another site you can get cell salts at

http://www.healing4soul.com/articles/homeopathy/44-an-overview-on-homeopathic-cell-salts

and another site about cell salts that seemed good

[Aisling]

subbing. :heart

[Luciola]

Trying to go dairy free to make sure that is not an issue before we dive into gluten. Day 2 and I'm feeling frustrated. We often have two friends over for card night on Fridays and DD always ends up eating a ton of cheese. Naturally she did tonight too. I haven't had any dairy but I've just been subbing soy, which I typically try to avoid. Plus I feel like if dairy is an issue, soy likely is too? I need to find something to put in my coffee. I need more protein.

I made bone broth and reduced it and tried a little bit, ten hours ago. I still can't get the taste out of my mouth. Even when I stopped eating meat, I still ate bacon once in a while and I had a ton tonight and now I feel sick. (I always do after I eat it.) I don't know what to eat. I'm feeling so overwhelmed by the idea of cutting out gluten. We try to avoid GMO corn and rice. Quinoa flour is expensive and makes pancakes that taste like pancakes. DH is not too thrilled about my new diet. We bond a lot over food. He got used to me not eating meat and slowing moving toward health in my diet. We love to eat cheese, order pizza, pick up take out. He is feeling frustrated that we can't do those things together anymore and honestly I am too. (Although our favorite take out place is Thai and I tried convincing him its coconut milk so its okay but honestly I don't know what it is. And if we have gluten issues, then I don't think soy sauce is safe?) I read the list of hidden gluten and that made me feel like *no way I can possibly do this my life is over*. I know that's not true, but it is how I'm feeling right now.

Once DD is not nursing, I think I will be more okay with cheating on my diet, even if I know its not the best for me. I don't want my whole life to revolve around trying to eat healthy. But I want to keep nursing her, especially as we figure out exactly what her health issues are. DH is convinced that it is contributing to her toothy decay and I have read all the research and believe he is probably right about night nursing. She is often latched on all night, has a lip tie, and I'm certain we are not getting *all* the food off when we brush her teeth at night - as best we try. I just know she is sensitive and high needs and I feel she is so little - she still *needs* me at night. Trust me, I would love to be done and get a decent nights sleep for once. But I just don't think she is ready yet for that.

On the plus side, I did find two papers on enamel dysplasia that I can get for free next tuesday when I'm at school, if I can figure out where I'm supposed to check things out from the library. Sorry this is so rambly.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

Sorry, wf, I realize I didn't actually respond to anything in your post. I really do appreciate you taking the time to write all that out and follow along here.

[WildFlower]

can I ask why you are going dairy/soy/gluten free? Nothing wrong with doing tha but is it to benefit her teeth or other issues? We were dairy free when dd had all the teeth issues and went back on dairy because it seemed she had grown out of her reflux issues and I figured any negatives with the dairy were minimal compared to the fact that she needed more of the stuff in milk for her teeth. All of the health stuff on healing teeth that I've read say that dairy is good for teeth. We don't drink milk though because none of us likes it and getting raw milk was too hard here.
Although if you are thinking celiac I can see why the no gluten/dairy. I am going gluten free but not going to try dairy free again unless I really think we need it after going gluten free. I konw sometimes celiac is linked to tooth issues.

[Aisling]

Doesn't weston price mention non-fermented soy being bad for teeth?:think

I may have missed it, but what's your water flouridation like?

Ours has received national awards. :rolleyes Thanks for that, state...every fluoridation spot on my kids' teeth has turned into a pit. And abscessed. :mutter

[Luciola]

They lowered our flouride because so many babies were getting fluoridosis or whatever happens when you make formula with flouride water. But it is still pretty high.

I am concerned about dairy because DD still has reflux and wakes up all night long and she will be 2 in a few weeks. She has always gained well and no problem with BM but I just want to eliminate it for a few weeks to see if there is any improvement before begin addressing the gluten issue. Kind of an elimination diet to make sure its not an issue. She doesn't eat a ton of dairy and still nurses often (see up all night above) so I'm not concerned about her missing it in her diet at this point. I did get pizza with DH last night. I don't want this to be an issue between us but at some point I will have to cut it out of my diet I think. Tomorrow we are going to his parents for our anniversary dinner and I know there will be dairy there. We always joke that the only available choices at his moms house are "meat and cheese". E knows gramma and papa will giver her tons of cheese too and she loves it. I really don't want to be the bad guy on this but pretending dairy could not possibly be an issue(what I have been sort of doing for 2 years) is not going to help us determine whether or not it actually IS an issue.

We have been intro'ing goats milk here and there for a few weeks and the past two days she has thrown up from it. (Just the same reflux type of puke.) She never gets more than three ounces a day.

I'm uncomfortable with soy for teeth and other health reasons but I have heard that most if not all of the bad info about soy comes from Weston A Price.

The reason I am concerned about Celiac is because enamel dysplasia is frequently associated with untreated celiac, so that has been my concern about gluten. Is there also a link between Celiac and dairy?

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 PM ----------

Oh, as for the diagnosis, by the time we went in for the surgery, she basically had no enamel left on her 3 front upper teeth. It was all dark brown/yellow denton. Just a touch of white around the edges on the one tooth and not much more enamel on the other two. (She is missing one from a fall when she was first learning to walk, so there are only 3.) She also had several cavities and he said that he found even more during the surgery, so I don't know how many. But then I read something that made it seem that the spots/holes from enamel dysplasia don't technically cause "cavities" but I couldn't figure out what else it would be.

[marigold]

I just found your thread.:hug2 We are in a similar space. I will try to answer a few of you questions from what I've learned. 1) Fermented Cod liver oil is stressed by the WPF amd Ramiel Nagel because of the natural source of fat soluble vitamins - ex multiple varieties of vit D not just D3; and vit A is non-toxic in its natural form. 2) There is a connection between gluten and dairy. It has been proven that a mother's breastmilk contains gluten if she's eating it they speculate that the same is true of other dairy animals - cows and goats are usually given a grain based dairy ration. 3) a good source of recipes that are grain and dairy free is to type paleo or primal in your search engine in front of the recipe type you want. 4)sugar puts your blood sugar levels out of whack and pulls calcium out of teeth and bones. Aim for 20 g/day for your dd, 25g for yourself. This is nasty hard for me. 5)chicken broth tastes and smells much milder than beef bone broth.
Sorry if this is kinda scattered, I'm really tired. We have currently cut gluten/grains, but I am scared to cut our dairy although I feel afraid that I should. I can't get my family to eat ferments at all either. Off to check out these cell salts I've never heard of them before.

[mommychem]

:cup Teeth issues here too. :sigh
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[WildFlower]

that totally makes sense what you are doing with cutting out dairy for your dd and gluten. My dd's refluxy spit up went away after being on dairy. And I KNOW I saw results after only a few days. She had lots of acne like spots at even 6 months old. I thought it was baby acne but it never really went away till we went off dairy. Looking back her face was so much worse than i thought. She seems to do ok now with some dairy. We don't do milk just cheese and yogurt, so she's not getting too much. I don't do well with straight milk so we just do almond milk.

I know this is kind of going off topic but I had to share... since it's related. I just found out DH's grandma has IBS, pretty bad too. :shifty She could be gluten intolerant undiagnosed! And I KNOW that can be hereditary. I always wanted to ask about celiac/gluten history with his family but he said no one would know if they were or have any idea what I was talking about. But this makes it even more likely that dd could be gluten intolerant or something. She doesn't have ANY classic digestive symptoms. But her teeth honestly were just like what you described with your dd. Her 1st molars started getting little gritty spots in the enamel, on the SIDES of the molars. They got cavities in the middle too but the sides got so bad and gritty that they had to crown the whole thing. The front ones started just getting shorter as the enamel just disappeared and you could see the yellow dentin underneath. It was SO weird. It really made me wonder about enamel issues but the dentist never gave her any kind of diagnosis just said it was breastfeeding at night and on demand,even in the day, and too much sugar:hunh. DD would eat bread and crackers all day if I let her. I finally weaned her off the crackers and she occasionally was eating bread but now we are cutting all gluten out. Since i kind of weaned her off of it, she is doing ok really. I got some gluten free crackers for her, and some freeze dried apples which she thinks are better than crackers:shifty

Just had to share about dh's grandma, because it honestly makes me feel a little more sane like there is a possibley hereditary component to this for us too.

[Luciola]

Someone in my foo has Ibs but thinks anything that is not western medicine or SCIENCE is hooey. As in, there are meds to fix this, why would I consider underlying health/dietary issues? But not the same hereditary line as I can trace back the tooth issues.

Trying to get the papers from school today was an exercise in frustration. I would look up Pics of enamel dysplasia or other diseases. That does not sound like normal sugar decay!

[WildFlower]

have you tried almond milk with your dd? The "silk" brand of purealmond milk, we get the unsweetened. Is non-GMO and dd likes it. We don't "drink" it as a beverage very often but use it in cooking and cereal etc. It says it has more calcium in it than dairy. But if she's having issues with dairy she may not be able to tolerate the goats milk either.

You could tell your parents/in-laws that you are doinng an elimination diet and you would appreciate them checking withyou before giving her any food since you are trying to eliminate even trace amounts of dairy/soy etc. I found my family and in-laws to be pretty cooperable and they always asked or let me look at labels of food when we were at their house.

[bentlaj11]

subbing...

I was told to stop BF today by the ped dentst. I can't... it breaks my heart to think of doing that. He had no other recommendations. Said we would wait 6 mo and do surgery :(

I'm debating getting a 2nd opinion vs. doing the WAP stuff (we've started CLO/BO) with the xylitol. I also may try the MI paste and culturelle. I asked him about vit/mineral def. and he said that the decay wasn't generalized enough. I know it can't be BF alone, but we weren't as good with brushing as we were with Bug's teeth. I hold him for naps more than I did Bug (he nap/nurses a lot), and his teeth are worse on the left side (the side he sleeps on while BF at night) so maybe it is the BF at night mixed with an already weak enamel/worse hygiene. He also has a lip tie, but the dentist said that wouldn't cause the problems. He also mouth breathes a lot... Ugh, there's so much to think about/read/process!

And the clo is yucky and I'm not sure how much he actually gets!

:hugheart

[Luciola]

Sorry for abandoning my own thread. I have the book from the library but haven't had much chance to read - a lot going on here and I've been so overwhelmed by the idea of dairy and gluten free that I haven't made any changes except start pumping more so E gets less goat milk. She had a small reaction to coconut yogurt today too, so there is that to think about.

I would not stop bf. I find it hard to believe that your dentist told you that the lip tie has nothing to do with it. I want to find a specialist in the area to look at her lip tie/tongue tie but I haven't had a chance yet.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

To clarify, not that I don't believe you, its just unbelievable to me that a dentist wouldn't think that a lip tie has anything to do with decay.

[Aisling]

My only child who DIDN'T have decay on her front teeth so far is the one without the lip tie.

DD4 has one, and I swab it out 3x a day. :sigh :doh

[bentlaj11]

I don't think he even checked... he was so focused on the theeth. I know he has a lip tie, but it doesn't make his teeth gap. I don't know... I just know I can't stop BF... it's his main source of food. I'm torn on the night nursing... he doesn't usually nurse a lot, but it seems since I've discovered his dental probs he's nursing a lot more! maybe it's his way of saying not to stop :shrug

The dentist was pretty adament that BF is the cause...arggh.. and he was a young guy, so I was hoping he would've been a little more open to other things. He didn't even ask me if I brushed/what toothpaste I use or flossed!

I'm sorry you're having to go through food issues, too. I'm overwhelmed just dealing with the teeth. I can't imagine trying to figure out how to do it DF or wit other diet restrictions. :(

Are you going to try to find an ENT for the lt/tt? I don't know how to go about getting that looked at for Critter.

ETA: Thanks, Aisling. Was revision something you think might've helped with your LO's?

[Luciola]

From the research I've done, nursing at night, all night long, with a continuous latch with a baby who has a lip tie may contribute to decay. Otherwise, breastfeeding absolutely does not contribute. The fact that your dentist is so stuck on the breastfeeding and doesn't consider the lip tie a big deal when it's actually the lip tie that is typically responsible for the decay and not the breastfeeding would make me want to find a new dentist. Unfortunately, the dentist we're using (also a stop breastfeeding but no that lip tie isnt a big deal type of dentist) is the only one who will take our insurance. :doh

Aisling, do you have more info on how you swab it out? Is that something I could do myself? (Brushing E's teeth is a 3 person job around here.)

[bentlaj11]

From the research I've done, nursing at night, all night long, with a continuous latch with a baby who has a lip tie may contribute to decay. Otherwise, breastfeeding absolutely does not contribute. The fact that your dentist is so stuck on the breastfeeding and doesn't consider the lip tie a big deal when it's actually the lip tie that is typically responsible for the decay and not the breastfeeding would make me want to find a new dentist. Unfortunately, the dentist we're using (also a stop breastfeeding but no that lip tie isnt a big deal type of dentist) is the only one who will take our insurance. :doh

Aisling, do you have more info on how you swab it out? Is that something I could do myself? (Brushing E's teeth is a 3 person job around here.)

See, I haven't found a lot on lip ties in relation to caries (the stuff I've read is more about problems with latching/BF and of course tt's cause more problems). It would make sense, though, b/c b/t the 2 kids, this one is the one who nurses less. My other one was the nurse-all-nighter, but he doesn't have problems with his teeth or speech. Critter only says, mama and "ba" for ball. I've been meaning to look into how many words he should be saying, but haven't gotten around to it.

I'm hoping I can find a more holistic dentist here... it may be a lost cause. I haven't been to an LLL meeting in a long time...but I should email them and ask. That stinks about the insurance, Amber! (I'm an INFP, too :))

Sorry to ramble so much. I'm trying to process everything, and DH works late. I just discovered his tooth decay last week and the dentist visit was this a.m.

ETA: And, Bug still nurses (so even though he doesn't nurse all night anymore, BM is the last thing he has before he sleeps. *Still trying to convince myself that I don't have to night-wean Critter* :(

[Luciola]

http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/03/introducing-maxillary-labial-frenulum.html?m=1

I think I have a link for finding holistic dentists when I'm back on my computer.

My personal opinion is that if you are doing a good job of brushing at night, there is absolutely no need to night wean.

PS please feel free to process here!

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

The article linked in that post cites this article by the same author about lip tie/ caries. http://jhl.sagepub.com.ezproxy.lib.uwm.edu/content/26/3/304.

[WildFlower]

I think you are right about the lip tie. DD has a lip tie too. I asked the dentist about the lip tie (not about it having to do with the caries though) but he didn't think it was a problem and said they "stretch out" on their own:shifty:no I have a lip tie and so does my husband too but it's super long and not tight like dd's. I only nursed till I was about 6 months and my dh didn't at all as a baby, just formula and rice in a bottle:shrug3

[Caecelia]

Just wanted to pop in to mention that when I read Mothering Your Nursing Toddler, they mentioned that studies show that food combined with night nursing seemed to cause more cavities than just night nursing alone. That put my mind at ease when I read it at the time. Hope it does for you too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luciola]

Kindle died and ate my post. Long story short I think the lip tie traps food/plaque or something and then the latch is a little different so the milk is more likely to pool like it would with a bottle if you do an all night latch. Find a way to get the teeth and gums clean despite the tie or fix the tie and you seriously reduce risk of decay. Is that right?

Also read a review of 151 articles and many were recommend ing weaning even when their own research didn't support that conclusion. Evidence is inconclusive, many studies were poorly done, several showed benefits of breastfeedinv food dental health and only one actually examined link between early childhood caries and nursing. Oh and many considered breastfeeding after a year or even busy six months extended breastfeeding.

[Aisling]

I'm honestly just giving myself instructions based on intuition. Every time she eats solids, I brush with an extra soft brush and gently use a damp cloth to wipe out the gum area (especially where it gets trapped on that upper lip frenulum. Then I give her a little filtered water to "rinse".

It's a lot of times of day, yes it is. At night, I'm brushing with a toothbrush dipped in xylitol water. (bummer that she probably swallows some of it, as it's not really great for your gut, but...lesser of the evils, especially since she's breastfeeding...)


I'm cautiously observing that two of her teeth with discoloring/pitting on the flat surface seem to be improving, with one being almost totally better. :heart

[bentlaj11]

:nak2

Thanks ladies!

I do think it's best to keep BF, and I was worried DH might press weaning... but he was completely on board with getting another opinion and NOT weaning! Yay!!

I do think for us it was a comob of things including not cleaning his teeth at night good enough (or at all :bag) and I do think I was def in the proper vit/mineral while pg (I think I used up all my stores with Bug, and since I was still nursing while I was pg I just didn't have enough). His teeth are probably just weak enough to have problems when I didn't care for them good enough/plus the lip tie.

Plus, I think he will get extra vitamins from the BM (now that I've upped mine to nursing levels as per WAP) even if Vit D doesn't transfer much!

I also think his teeth don't seem as thin, but it's only been a week so :shrug3!
When we started
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/bentlaj11/bth_Beginning_zpsac0f05c1.jpg

Today
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/bentlaj11/bth_P1030548_zps641b9176.jpg?t=1362505483

It's hard to tell since the angle/distance is different! Oh, well, I don't think the extra care and vit can hurt!

[LearningMama]

I've been following along but I'm going to sub.
My ds has the white spots on his front teeth and actually chipped one. We took him to the dentist and she wants us to use fluoride. My dentist told me not to use fluoride with him yet because he cannot spit and I don't feel comfortable using it anyway. I did not tell his dentist that he still nurses. When I asked her what could cause it she gave me vague answers like the water supply or me taking medication for asthma. We drink filtered water and I didn't take any medication when I Was pg I did take Singulair while nursing. She also asked me if I let him chew on pennies. :scratch

After reading around here I bought some xylitol. Now I brush his teeth with Toms strawberry toothpast that is floride free and contains silca and some type of calcium. Then I give him xylitol crystals to chew on. At night I swab his teeth with a wet washcloth and give him more xylitol to chew on. Does that sound ok? I really want to fix this I'm worried and I feel guilty, like I gave him bad teeth :( I'm going to look at his mouth and make sure he doesn't have a lip tie, just in case.

[Katigre]

He needs xylitol after each time he eats. Try for 6g total a day. You can use sorry tooth geek or dissolve in water. I would also consider brushing just a drop of act bubblegum mouthwash in his teeth each night - it won't be enough that him swallowing is a concern but will help the enamel.

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

[ArmsOfLove]

somehow I'm just seeing this . . . we went through this with our oldest and I later learned that teeth coming in with improper enamel is a sign of celiac. We went gf when he was around 3 and all of his adult teeth have come in beautifully :heart Wonderful enamel :yes

just thought I'd share :hug

[LearningMama]

He needs xylitol after each time he eats. Try for 6g total a day. You can use sorry tooth geek or dissolve in water. I would also consider brushing just a drop of act bubblegum mouthwash in his teeth each night - it won't be enough that him swallowing is a concern but will help the enamel.

Sent from my Android phone using Swype
What is this "sorry tooth geek" that you speak of? :giggle I've considered using Act after looking at Dr. Ellie's website but I was hoping xylitol would be enough. Maybe I will give it a try after all.
This may be a silly question but is there a way I can measure grams without a scale?

somehow I'm just seeing this . . . we went through this with our oldest and I later learned that teeth coming in with improper enamel is a sign of celiac. We went gf when he was around 3 and all of his adult teeth have come in beautifully :heart Wonderful enamel :yes

just thought I'd share :hug
Do you know how common that is? Did you do anything else for his teeth while being gf?

OP I apologize if I'm taking over your thread :blush

[ArmsOfLove]

I don't know how common it is, but I've seen it several times myself. And we didn't intentionally do anything else. We were vegan and ate that way for years, but he's had meat in his diet in small amounts for the last year or so.

[WildFlower]

I have seriously wondered about dd being gluten intolerant. I am not sure though. And confused how to know for sure. We are gluten free right now. Going to do a gluten challenge soon to see if there are any reactions. I am not sure what kind of reactions to even look for in dd, or whether to just keep her gf for a while longer. She has had slow/low weight gain since about 15 months old. And multiple teeth issues. No digetstive issues really, sometimes she gets consitpated a bit but that's all. She did have refluxy stuff when she was a baby. :shrug3

[LearningMama]

I thought I was coming across a little paranoid last night when I said I would check for lip tie. DS is 2, wouldn't I know by now if he dad it? Especially since nursing has gone well for us with very minor problems. I was going to come back this morning and clarify that I'm no paranoid.

Well I checked this morning while I was brushing his teeth and from what I can tell he does have lip tie. :( His dentist didn't even mention it. Is it really common? Would that be the reason she didn't say anything? I'm a little upset about this.

[Katigre]

What is this "sorry tooth geek" that you speak of? :giggle I've considered using Act after looking at Dr. Ellie's website but I was hoping xylitol would be enough. Maybe I will give it a try after all.
This may be a silly question but is there a way I can measure grams without a scale?


Do you know how common that is? Did you do anything else for his teeth while being gf?

OP I apologize if I'm taking over your thread :blush
Oops! Spry tooth gel.

1 tsp of xylitol is 4g so it's easy to measure.




Sent from my Android phone using Swype

[bentlaj11]

I thought I was coming across a little paranoid last night when I said I would check for lip tie. DS is 2, wouldn't I know by now if he dad it? Especially since nursing has gone well for us with very minor problems. I was going to come back this morning and clarify that I'm no paranoid.

Well I checked this morning while I was brushing his teeth and from what I can tell he does have lip tie. :( His dentist didn't even mention it. Is it really common? Would that be the reason she didn't say anything? I'm a little upset about this.

:nak2

I wouldn't have noticed Critter's lip tie w/out researching his decay. I always thought he had a shallow latch, but I thought it was b/c he was so little compared to his brother. And, although my supply was less, I was tandeming so I never gad issues with his weight (slower than I thought it should be, but nothing the ped was worried about) or pain issues. I think he has a tounge-tie as well, but not a bad one... and those I think can cause more nursing issues. did your ds pop on and off the breast a lot. Mine was constantly popping off which led me to switch sides often. he was also pretty gassy (still is). I think that the lip tie can explain some of the symptoms, but i am not sure!

The dentist completely blew me off when I asked about lip-ties. So, I am not sure if they get much education on it... or maybe I'm paranoid about it too much :sigh. At any rate I made another appt with a different dentist (at the chidren's hospital/dental school so i hope there will be multiple opinions!), and a consult with an oral surgeon there as well.

Could you get a 2nd opinion? There's a facebook group called tounge-tie support that has a lot of info./advice/lists of providers who specialize, etc.

ETA: one of the things I've read about trying to heal teeth through diet changes is cutting out or reducing grains. Besides celiac causing weak enamel, grains produce an acid that prevents the asorbtion of vit/min, an whole graiins/oatmeal are the worst. I wonder if there is more correlation!

[Aisling]

somehow I'm just seeing this . . . we went through this with our oldest and I later learned that teeth coming in with improper enamel is a sign of celiac. We went gf when he was around 3 and all of his adult teeth have come in beautifully :heart Wonderful enamel :yes

just thought I'd share :hug

Wow, thanks for saying this Crystal...that's good to know.

[Luciola]

OP I apologize if I'm taking over your thread :blush

I don't have time to respond to all the comments right now, but I just wanted to pop in and say please feel free to process and ask all the questions you want! :heart

[Luciola]

I don't know how common it is, but I've seen it several times myself. And we didn't intentionally do anything else. We were vegan and ate that way for years, but he's had meat in his diet in small amounts for the last year or so.

Were you able to be vegan/vegetarian while going gluten free? The more research I do, the more I realize that my family and I have many of the markers for gluten intolerance and it is something I want to do. We are starting meet for DD now that she is 2, probably sometime this month. But I'm having a hard time being comfortable with eating meat myself. I'm just not sure what there is left to eat if you are a soy-free, gluten-free vegetarian. We do choose to use a pretty sizable portion of our income on eating healthy, but the prices for gluten free flours and grains seem so high compared to what I'm buying now, especially because we try to buy organic whenever possible.

DD's condition is usually but not always linked to gluten intolerance and cutting out gluten now could help her adult teeth, so it something I am willing to try. I just don't quite get how it works, as I thought the teeth were already all there, just hiding up inside her mouth or something?

[Luciola]

I could cry. We have to find a new dentist because of changes in state insurance and basically there is no one who will take a 2 year old and is accepting new patients with our insurance. This was such a nightmare to find someone last time and now we have to start over. From what I understand, a pediatric dentist isn't even an option at this time.

I didn't have a chance to read Cure Tooth Decay before I had to return it to the library because someone else had it on hold. (3 weeks but with classes and toddler teething and life, I haven't been able to read any books.)

Soo beyond frustrated right now.

[WildFlower]

that is so hard :hug2 we didn't have dental insurance for dd till January so all her treatments were out of pocket. It was expensive.

Your dd just had treatments right? So maybe if you try doing the dietary stuff you are doing in the mean time that will be ok. I can't remember if she still needed more treatment or not? My dd had her crowns done in October and we've been just doing the xylitol and so far I have NOT seen any new spots or decay and it's march. She has her 6 month cleaning next month.
Another thing that may be hopeful is that family practice dentists usually start taking them at age 3, so you maybe able to go that route, if natural stuff can keep any new decay at bay. It's so hard dealing with insurance stuff

[bentlaj11]

I keep losing my reply (silly internet connection!), but just wanted to say I'm praying for you guys!

[LearningMama]

My ds basically has a hole in his front tooth now. Food is starting to get stuck in it :(.

I bought some ACT mouthwash and started rubbing it on his teeth. I'm also wondering if I should stop using the toothpaste I have. The bottle says it is slightly abrasive which helps clean the teeth but I wonder if that could hurt already weak teeth. I should probably get that xylitol toothpaste.

[mommychem]

My ds basically has a whole in his front tooth now. Food is starting to get stuck in it :(.

I bought some ACT mouthwash and started rubbing it on his teeth. I'm also wondering if I should stop using the toothpaste I have. The bottle says it is slightly abrasive which helps clean the teeth but I wonder if that could hurt already weak teeth. I should probably get that xylitol toothpaste.

:hug Tooth issues are so, so hard. :hugheart
Posted via Mobile Device

[bentlaj11]

I've reading some info on here http://mizar5.com/toothpst htm (needs a . before the htm). Not really sure if it's a good one, but it may be of some help. I'd read that glycerin (found in a lot of toothpastes) was bad, but according to them, it actually isn't... of course his 'proof' was brushing with straight glycerin and his teeth "felt" clean :giggle... not too scientific, but I thought the site had some interesting stuff.

Celeste, I think I would skip the abrasive stuff and get some xylitol if you are able. b/t the xylitol and clo/hvbo (which he doesn't take much of b/c he's getting good at spitting it out!), I think DS2's teeth are looking better (granted, looks can be deceiving!). [hugs]

nak....

[LearningMama]

I've reading some info on here http://mizar5.com/toothpst htm (needs a . before the htm). Not really sure if it's a good one, but it may be of some help. I'd read that glycerin (found in a lot of toothpastes) was bad, but according to them, it actually isn't... of course his 'proof' was brushing with straight glycerin and his teeth "felt" clean :giggle... not too scientific, but I thought the site had some interesting stuff.

Celeste, I think I would skip the abrasive stuff and get some xylitol if you are able. b/t the xylitol and clo/hvbo (which he doesn't take much of b/c he's getting good at spitting it out!), I think DS2's teeth are looking better (granted, looks can be deceiving!). [hugs]

nak....

Will the CLO help rebuild his tooth enamel?
What changes are you weeing in you DS's teeth?

[bentlaj11]

Well, the clo has high amounts of vit A and D, and it works (supposedly!) synergistically with the high vit butter oil (vit K2)... which are good for bones and teeth (along w/ phos, calc and magnesium). So, since I think that part of his teeth problems were me not having enough of those vit/min while pg and now nursing, I think that the clo/bo and increased grass-fed dairy/eggs/meat has helped. The biggest thing I've noticed is the white spots along the top of his teeth are less bright/big. His tooth that was the worst (seemed like it got bad fast) doesn't look any worse (and seems to not look as bad, but it's hard to tell). I will say that he's not really eating much, and I know he's not swallowing a lot of the clo/bo, so I've been taking it as well to try and up the amounts in my milk. synthetic vit D supp is recommended here for BF babies, but I never did it. After reading about CLO I think it's a better source than the synthetic version (more easily used by the body).

Also, I think the xylitol has helped (doing it 4-5x/day on his teeth). So, if LB just has the one hole, he may not need as much from the vit/min stand point... C has multiple teeth w/ signs of decay.

I'll see if I can get another pic of his teeth in a bit. He's asleep in my right arm now, so sorry for the typos!

[LearningMama]

Well, the clo has high amounts of vit A and D, and it works (supposedly!) synergistically with the high vit butter oil (vit K2)... which are good for bones and teeth (along w/ phos, calc and magnesium). So, since I think that part of his teeth problems were me not having enough of those vit/min while pg and now nursing, I think that the clo/bo and increased grass-fed dairy/eggs/meat has helped. The biggest thing I've noticed is the white spots along the top of his teeth are less bright/big. His tooth that was the worst (seemed like it got bad fast) doesn't look any worse (and seems to not look as bad, but it's hard to tell). I will say that he's not really eating much, and I know he's not swallowing a lot of the clo/bo, so I've been taking it as well to try and up the amounts in my milk. synthetic vit D supp is recommended here for BF babies, but I never did it. After reading about CLO I think it's a better source than the synthetic version (more easily used by the body).

Also, I think the xylitol has helped (doing it 4-5x/day on his teeth). So, if LB just has the one hole, he may not need as much from the vit/min stand point... C has multiple teeth w/ signs of decay.

I'll see if I can get another pic of his teeth in a bit. He's asleep in my right arm now, so sorry for the typos!

Can people with dairy sensitivity use the CLO with the butter oil? I have cal/mag, I need to start taking it regularly. I'm sure it would help.
I really want to make sure the hole doesn't decay in the future. I'm sure you already mentioned this but what toothpaste do you use also, what type of toothbrush. We are using the toothbrush the dentist gave him but I think the bristles are too rough and are not helping his weak enamel.

[bentlaj11]

I'm not sure about the dairy issue afa the BO, but you could just do straight clo. I found this link (i put a space before the www) http:// www.mothering.com/community/t/566472/butter-oil-and-dairy-issues"]mothering.com/community/t/566472/butter-oil-and-dairy-issues maybe it will help?

I've been using spry brand toothpaste b/c that's what they had at the hfs. There are also xylitol granules and gum. I think it works both topically and when it's ingested, but I've read so much I get confused :shrug3. I just use the softest toothbrush I could find (I think it's labled for 0-6 mo.). The one the dentist gave us was too big and really stiff!

ETA: I re-read your post about LB having white spots, along with the tooth. So, maybe supplements would help?

ETA: it's the spry gel (not toothpaste!)

[marigold]

Celeste, I think I would skip the abrasive stuff and get some xylitol if you are able. b/t the xylitol and clo/hvbo (which he doesn't take much of b/c he's getting good at spitting it out!), I think DS2's teeth are looking better (granted, looks can be deceiving!). [hugs]

nak....

My kids all like the cinnamon flavour of clo/hvbo. My littlest who is just about to bounces up and down in his chair making me, me, me noises.:giggle

Can people with dairy sensitivity use the CLO with the butter oil? I have cal/mag, I need to start taking it regularly. I'm sure it would help.
I really want to make sure the hole doesn't decay in the future. I'm sure you already mentioned this but what toothpaste do you use also, what type of toothbrush. We are using the toothbrush the dentist gave him but I think the bristles are too rough and are not helping his weak enamel.

It depends what type of dairy sensitivity you have. Can you have ghee (clarified butter) You could always get just the clo without butter.
We use spry baby tooth gel - xylitol toothpaste, very mild flavour. I just buy regular toothbrushes for babies - just check that they have soft bristles.

[bentlaj11]

Well, maybe they aren't much better, but my gut says they are... it's hard to get the same light/camera angle though!!

when we first found ithttp://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/bentlaj11/bth_Beginning_zpsac0f05c1.jpg
2 weeks in http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/bentlaj11/bth_week22_zps0348e34d.jpg
today (almost 4 weeks in) http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s638/bentlaj11/bth_week4_zps5d2763df.jpg?t=1364159828 (

[LearningMama]

I really appreciate everyones help:D
I already have xylitol crystals which I give LB throughout the day. I plan on getting the Spry tooth gel and I plan to get the CLO/BO. He can handle ghee so it seems like he will be ok with the BO. I;ll also get him a new toothbrush. I think the one we have is too hard. Go figure since the dentist gave it to him :doh. I pretty sure the lip tie has contributed to this because the trouble is really only on the front teeth. I glad GCM is here because I'm sure it would have not been brought up otherwise. :ty

[bentlaj11]

I really appreciate everyones help:D
I already have xylitol crystals which I give LB throughout the day. I plan on getting the Spry tooth gel and I plan to get the CLO/BO. He can handle ghee so it seems like he will be ok with the BO. I;ll also get him a new toothbrush. I think the one we have is too hard. Go figure since the dentist gave it to him :doh. I pretty sure the lip tie has contributed to this because the trouble is really only on the front teeth. I glad GCM is here because I'm sure it would have not been brought up otherwise. :ty

I know what you mean about the toothbrush... I wouldn't even use the one the dentist gave C (and he's a pediatric dent.)! I hope the supplements help! The green pasture brand is the one that's recommended by Weston A. Price (he did a lot of research on tooth decay; although there is some controversy around his diet (high fat), but it makes sense to me), and it's expensive... but, I figure the small fortune I spend now will be worth it if it helps his teeth (and mine since I don't have dental insurance).

Amber, have you had any luck finding a dentist? :hugheart

[bentlaj11]

How are everyone's teeth? I got the 2nd opinion, which didn't differ from the first... go figure! I think the only reason she didn't tell me to wean was b/c when she asked about me seeing another dentist I told her that he told me to wean and I wasn't going to! I do have his surgery scheduled... I agreed to it, b/c the oral surgeon said they would clip his lip tie and tounge tie at the same time. I'm just praying that I can heal his teeth before then, and then all they will have to do is clip the ties. I'm so scared they are going to do more than is necessary if they start doing fillings, and I'm already anxious about it all.

baby's up!

[Luciola]

Thank you! We actually went to dentist today. Dds teeth are not healing right. Gums are inflamed and there is slight movement in the lateral incisor. We actually saw the other dentist in the practice. I liked him better. Said the tooth moves 1 mm, very little andxw/in range of normal but we need to keep an eye on it. Recommended salt water rinse to fight bacteria. We have another cleaning scheduled next month. Concerned the tooth may abscess. Wasn't that the reason we did surgery in the first place??!? :hissyfit

Insurance is a nightmare. Our "advocate" is useless. I'm sure her caseload is triple what it ought to be. We essentially have no non emergency dental insurance until e is 3 unless we get an exception for the way HMOs work for our state insurance. We had a temporary one for her surgery but now were back to out of pocket.

I still need to go gluten free and I continue to be so overwhelmed by the idea that I make no meaningful changes in our diet. We have been doing bone broth though, so that's a step in the right direction. :cheer

[bentlaj11]

Ughh.. I hope she doesn't get an infection! I'm scared that the sx will be that way for us... they will "fix" it, but he will still have to have more stuff done later. It's so hard when you don't know what will happen.

And then to have the insurance worry on top of all that :hugheart.

I know what you mean about the diet thing... I feelbad b/c I will give the oldr one a treat and feel guilty if I don't give the little one some (or I feel guilty if I do!).

nak..

[Luciola]

How are everyone's teeth? I got the 2nd opinion, which didn't differ from the first... go figure! I think the only reason she didn't tell me to wean was b/c when she asked about me seeing another dentist I told her that he told me to wean and I wasn't going to! I do have his surgery scheduled... I agreed to it, b/c the oral surgeon said they would clip his lip tie and tounge tie at the same time. I'm just praying that I can heal his teeth before then, and then all they will have to do is clip the ties. I'm so scared they are going to do more than is necessary if they start doing fillings, and I'm already anxious about it all.

baby's up!

Is there any way you could get the lip tie and tongue tie clipped without doing the fillings if you are wanting to hold off while you heal the teeth? Are you still doing xylitol and CLO?

[bentlaj11]

Yes, we are doing the FCLO/HVBO and xylitol. I went ahead w/ the surgery b/c I fgured if they were going to heal they would by then. I have a pre-op appt where I am going to ask them to do x rays again to compare and if there is re-min. to not fill the cavities. I don't know!

[Luciola]

That sounds good - it makes sense that the decay would stop or begin to reverse by then. What stage are the cavities at?

[LearningMama]

DS chipped his tooth even more this week. About 1/4 or more of the tooth is gone. I've been giving him BO/FCLO and xylitol. I don't think I'm going to be able to remineralize the broken tooth but with the hole in it from weak enamel I figure I can prevent it from decaying. I've accepted that fact they he may loose the tooth and that's ok, he'll eventually get another on in it's place.He is teething this week which means a runny nose and tons of drool.

[bentlaj11]

That sounds good - it makes sense that the decay would stop or begin to reverse by then. What stage are the cavities at?

I don't know what stage they are... the new dentist just looked and said that they were cavities. I know that one of them is worse than the other. She did say that the white lines (which I understand are early decay) can remineralize, but that cavities won't. That doesn't make sense to me... I would think if you could remineralize early decay that you could also remineralize worse decay (assuming you stopped what was causing the decay in the first place). I would think it would be like a cut on your skin or a broken bone. Even if their is a hole in your skin, eventually you will get new skin back (won't look the same, but it's still skin). :scratch


Celeste.. poor lil' guy! I hope his teeth break through soon!

[Luciola]

I don't think any conventional dentist is going to tell you that you can remineralize cavities. E had three cavities through to the dentin - the stages are early, advanced, dental , pulp. Here is a picture:
http://classes.midlandstech.com/carterp/courses/bio225/chap25/25-04_ToothDecay_1.jpg

[bentlaj11]

How are you serving bone broth? I'm supposed to be getting 1/2 a cow from a farm, so I can do thr bone broth soon. But it's getting hot here and I'm not a fan of soup when it's hot! How are you serving it?

[Luciola]

I buy little glass teacups from goodwill and DD drinks the broth from that. I have also heard that if you make the broth plain (just water and bones) that you can use it in smoothies, but despite always asking for some of mine, DD never drinks any. We have been doing soup but probably won't do as much either now that its warmer. I have also added a little to mac and cheese - that was really good.

There is a big bone broth thread around somewhere - I don't know if it is a sticky. I haven't read the whole thing but I bet there are some good ideas.

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=459280

[LilacPhoenix]

Just seeing this thread...

we went through this with our oldest and I later learned that teeth coming in with improper enamel is a sign of celiac. We went gf when he was around 3 and all of his adult teeth have come in beautifully :heart Wonderful enamel :yes

just thought I'd share :hug

:happytears Thank you! Many of Gabriel's teeth came in missing enamel:( We went GF when he was 25 months old, partly because I read it could be a symptom of gluten intolerance... And I hoped his permanent teeth would be better!

I had some success reversing a cavity between pregnancies with a multi-mineral formula. Both boys are taking a similar one and Gabriel's teeth stopped bothering him:phew He doesn't have any cavities (that I can see:shifty) and I'm hoping the minerals help him avoid getting any!

We eat GF, lowish grains.

[bentlaj11]

We are going in for surgery on Friday. I'm nervous, but clinging to Phil. 4:6-7! Gotta to love a peace that I can't understand :heart Now, if I could just get rid of the guilt (and fast forward to Saturday)!

Amber and Celeste, how are your LO's teeth doing?

[LearningMama]

I was doing fermented clo and xylitol buy totally fell off the wagon. The tooth chipped again and what started out as two small holes is now one big one. He also has 3 other teeth with tiny chips. You can see that the enamal at the bottom of his teeth is thin. My husbands teeth are the same. We had his second dentist appointment a couple weeks ago. His dentist says she can fix it but is :shrug3 about it. She isn't really worried about the chip or hole(was still 2 separate whole at the appointment). She would put a cap over the tooth but she says it can come off. He would also have to be put to sleep which means the procedure would have to be done in a hospital.

I'm still on the fence about fixing it. I don't want his whole tooth to fall apart. We have a follow-up appointment to look at the tooth in about 10 weeks so we will see what happens.

[Luciola]

We have been moving toward GF and doing lots of GF soaked grains as well as butter oil and FCLO. Life is a little topsy turvy right now so we fell off a bit but hoping to get back to it soon. E's gums finally seem to be doing better but I couldn't believe how long it took to heal after the surgery.

[bentlaj11]

That's good to know about the gums. He ended up w/ crowns on his top four front teeth. He had two small cavities, and a few areas of decalcification that she didn't have to do anything to (she almost seemed surprised that those areas were hard, so I know that our diet changes/additions are helping). Praise the Lord that he's doing good! They said he probably wouldn't do much today, but he's already trying to run around and keep up w/ big brother... Now to keep him from face-planting the next 3 or 4 years :sigh