The ethics of withholding adequate pain relief from infants

[Calliope]

I heard recently that the pain from teething is thought to be bad enough that it would put the average adult on prescription painkillers. I know babies have been teething from the beginning of time, but I find myself asking if it is humane to deny them adequate pain relief. I know there is a risk of overdose, but why not strive for accurate dosing rather than letting them be in so much pain? :scratch I know it is not terribly crunchy of me to want to use any sort of painkiller on my baby, but how do we know that this pain doesn't have lasting effects? Has it ever been studied?

It reminds me a lot of the thing that bothers me most about people choosing to circumcise their sons. While I might disagree with the conclusion, I can see why many parents think it is a good idea. I don't think that anyone can argue though that the pain relief available is sufficient. It should be done under general anesthesia but GA is deemed to risky, so they just don't use it. A little Tylenol or Motrin afterwards? Not even considered an option!

Anyway, this is bugging me as of late. BabyG is in a lot of teething pain. I do what I can and, yes, I give him Motrin, but I wish I could do more. :(

[hopeforchange]

that's why i always give motrin, round the clock, if i think a baby is in pain.

[gardenfreshmama]

I had teething pain a few years ago with my wisdoms and it was excruciating. :yes
So yes, I agree with you. I'm not usually one to withhold ibuprofen for perceived teething discomfort. I will hold off for a while with fevers, but I tend to feel guilty about that. I know how miserable I feel with a fever, but I also want their body to fight it off. So... :shrug

[WingsOfTheMorning]

:hug I use Ibuprofen too when she can't sleep.

[Amy]

I give meds if I think they're in pain also. Poor things...

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I give it for fevers too when they are obviously miserable. I read in Dr. Sears book that newer research shows that fever reducing meds don't interfere with immune response.

[Amy]

Fwiw I've been told by several older grandmother types that they would rub drinking alcohol (scotch, vodka etc..) on their gums to help with teething pain. Not that I condone that at all, but that moms have been searching for pain relief for teething babies for many generations.

[Heather Micaela]

There IS "crunchy" pain relief :shrug3 My babies have used hylands teething tablets and amber necklackes. So just because a mom is not giving ibuprofin doesn't mean they are witholding relief.

[MrsHutch]

I often gave J meds for pain and high fevers, too, especially at night.

But then there is the problem that tylenol is hard on your liver and N-SAIDs increase gut permeability, possibly leading to future gut issues. Could J have had a healthier gut and not be dealing with food intolerances and autism if I hadn't given him so much ibuprofen as a baby? I can't say.

[Calliope]

I am NOT judging anyone else on what they choose to do. I just wish I had the OPTION of something stronger if I felt it would help.

No one out there is doing a medical study on teething pain to look for a "cure". Why? Because the babies will survive. And they're babies. :( So...it's not going to kill them and they cry a lot anyway, so...what? No one is even going to try?

[MercyInDisguise]

I tried amber, teething tablets, etc. C was still up every 15 minutes all night long for months. I started doing Motrin once a night and it at least reduced the nightwakings to every 45 minutes. :yawn I did feel a bit guilty, but it was so much better than him being tortured 3 times as frequently.

[Maggirayne]

I tried clove oil, but A didn't like it. :hugheart It hurts when they are hurting. :heart

[StoryOfGrace]

If its obvious he's hurting, I give it to him. :shrug3

If he has a low fever...I usually wait and just do whatever else I can to make him comfortable/happy.

[cbmk4]

I am interested in any study that shows that teething causes significant discomfort. I don't think any of my 4 children were bothered by cutting teeth. I never gave my children anything, because they didn't need it. I remember occasionally being surprised to see a tooth pop through. I wouldn't have known a tooth was about to erupt based on their behavior.

[Niphredil]

And then there is my oldest DD who would just mill around crying for days when cutting a tooth. She is still especially sensitive to pain. Teething *hurt* her very, very much.

Kids are so very different in this - and every - regard. When my child is hurting, I treat their pain. :yes

[Quiteria]

It seems to vary...I have one with sensory integration issues who was ridiculously bothered...even losing the baby teeth to gain adult teeth ends up resulting in months of picky eating and complaining that it hurts to chew and on and on. (It takes all my gentle mama reserves to be patient and kind regarding the pickiness, grumpiness, complaints,etc....if I were adversarial and didn't recognize her pain as real...life would be very, very bad.)

I have another who just sprouts new teeth without my knowledge and has just lost a bunch of baby teeth with nary a comment other than excitement over the tooth fairy.

And the other two are somewhere in the middle. :shrug3 And sometimes it seems to vary even within the same child. :scratch

[Aerynne]

My kids have all been super easy teethers and I've never needed to give them anything. Certainly if you think they are in serious pain, painkillers of some kind (natural or allopathic) would be a good idea.

[Amy]

Rene, that is incredibly heartbreaking :sad. Thank you for sharing.

[LilacPhoenix]

I have two HORRIBLE teethers:( Ethan was the worst. Teething tablets worked for the first few teeth but not after that. When he was cutting teeth, he would throw himself all over, screaming and writhing in pain. He wouldn't let me hold him. All I could do was lay him on my bed, talk soothingly, and keep him away from the edge while he thrashed and screamed. It was HORRIBLE:cry Motrin worked most of the time but I ended up having to ask his pedi what else I could do. Per my pedi, when it was bad, I would give him Motrin, wait 15 minutes to see if it was working (with him thrashing and screaming on the bed), then give a dose of Tylenol, and wait for the combined effect. I hated giving him meds. Still do. But he was obviously in a LOT of pain and I couldn't let him suffer any more than he had to. Looking back, I can see why it was so bad - his SPD had a lot to do with it. Gabriel wasn't as bad. I had to piggyback the meds a couple times but he didn't thrash and scream as much as Ethan.

I'm dreading Ethan getting his permanent teeth... But knowing about the SPD now, hopefully I can manage his pain better.

[LilacPhoenix]

Double post:shrug

[Leslie_JJKs_mom]

I am interested in any study that shows that teething causes significant discomfort. I don't think any of my 4 children were bothered by cutting teeth. I never gave my children anything, because they didn't need it. I remember occasionally being surprised to see a tooth pop through. I wouldn't have known a tooth was about to erupt based on their behavior.
Me either. She would smile and I would see a tiny tooth starting to poke through. She was never bothered by teething it seemed.

[Chaos Coordinator]

I start with amber (of course ;)) then go to homeopathics. Often times those two were all it took for H. M on the other hand has gotten a raging double ear infection with each new tooth. Today he got three amber necklaces, arnica Montana, ferrum phosphoricum, elderberry extract, teething tablets, tea tree oil/gse ear drops, and then finally some motrin - two doses, 8 hours apart. And lots and lots of breastmilk. Poor babe is cutting molars and canines.

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

My spd child often times would go in for a check up and leave with a diagnosis - double ear infection, hand foot mouth disease, etc and we had no idea he was even sick. He just keeps going and going and going...

[Johns_Gal]

My kid was mostly a very easy teether. A couple of nights where he needed a bit of tylenol on top of his hylands; just a half dose did the trick.

But, I worked daycare for a time and had the babies- twos. We had one little girl who was in misery over her teeth. That sweet baby (Lily) cried every day for weeks, was just a ball of pain and sadness, splotchy rash on her face from crying just about always. :bheart Of course she got the full arsenal of motrin + tylenol + baby orajel. Her little friends ranged from just fine and never bothered, to occasional tylenol and snuggles.

I think homeopathic medicines work best in some cases. I had an abcess that orajel barely touched ( iwould have ripped my tooth out with my own bare hands if I could have, that was some heinous pain), while clove oil was my magic wand. There should be more info distributed about such by mainstrream medicine, I think. Some people won't touch anything not FDA sanctioned, so... IDK. It's late, I likely am making no sense and therefore have zero business responding. So if you got through my ramble, here's the turkey for your reward. :turkey

[Chaos Coordinator]

Clove oil and amber were my top picks for managing my wisdom teeth pain. Far superior to Tylenol.

[AngelaVA]

Fwiw my DD1 that I gave a lot of tylenol and Motrin too later was found to have gut problems and difficulties dealing with everyday toxins, I tried the teething tablets for her and they didn't work and I did't know about anything else. For my DD2 who is actually far more sensitive to pain, we discovered an amber necklace and homeopathic drops and it was far more effective than Tylenol or Motrin.

I think in general not just for babies people tend to be very dismissive of children's pain and blame it on behavioral issues. Medical professionals seem very prone to this IMO.

Personally I try natural things first but if for some reason they aren't working I don't hold out on getting the oTC pain relief or whatever is needed. I think it is helpful to have a basic supply of natural remedies and try those first though.

[Domina]

I definitely believe this falls under "Do unto others." I feel the same way about medicating fevers. High fevers HURT - muscles, skin, everything aches. If I'm in pain, I take something, and I provide that same relief to my child.

I *do* try to do it as carefully and responsibly as possible, but I think it's cruel to withold relief from an infant or small child just because they're too small to help themselves.

For teething, we use Boiron Camilia drops because they actually work better than Motrin or Orajel (though we'll double up if necessary).

[Katigre]

No one out there is doing a medical study on teething pain to look for a "cure". Why? Because the babies will survive. And they're babies. :( So...it's not going to kill them and they cry a lot anyway, so...what? No one is even going to try?
I think b/c teething is a natural process, not something imposed upon the baby by modern society/disease/infection, so the thinking is that something natural can be dealt with naturally or just ridden out. There is a RADICAL difference IMO between something like teething or growing pains (which also cause mild discomfort/pain when they occur in childhood) and performing surgery on a non-anesthetized baby :(.

I am interested in any study that shows that teething causes significant discomfort. I don't think any of my 4 children were bothered by cutting teeth. I never gave my children anything, because they didn't need it. I remember occasionally being surprised to see a tooth pop through. I wouldn't have known a tooth was about to erupt based on their behavior.
ITA. I've never had significant teething pain - a bit of soreness when 12 year molars came in and that was it :shrug. (And I was a sensory-sensitive child in a lot of ways). Neither of my babies had more than a night or two of mild fussiness when teething where I was up more with them holding/resettling but medication was not even a thought in my mind - there was no misery, significant pain, or other signs of radical discomfort. It must be a familial thing b/c when I read about the intense teething struggles of other babies/toddlers on here (going on for months at a time) it's outside my realm of parenting experience.

[Hannah Elise]

There IS "crunchy" pain relief :shrug3 My babies have used hylands teething tablets and amber necklackes. So just because a mom is not giving ibuprofin doesn't mean they are witholding relief.

This. Just because we don't use allopathic pain relief doesn't mean we don't offer pain relief at all. I remember having an expander (which cracks the palate), and then braces; plus my lower wisdom teeth have been coming in off and on for the past few years. I'm familiar with teeth pain. :p

We've used a HazelAid amber necklace with great result, and Boiron chamomilla homeopathic pellets when he needed additional relief above and beyond what the amber provided (you can go to the HazelAid website to read about the benefits of amber). Also, offering cold things to gum / counterpressure with my fingers when he was really little (but not now that he's got fourteen teeth, hehe.. ow!), and nursing on demand.

Pardon the typos - this was sent via Tapatalk on my cell phone!

[HomeWithMyBabies]

I do try to avoid medicating the kiddos if it seems they can push through. I know what motrin does to my Dh's stomach, he can express that very clearly, and we all have tummy issues as it is. I would rather not exacerbate them any more then I need to. The long run is more important to me given our issues.

Ds2 did well with teething tablets and ds3 seems to be ok with nursing, drops, cold stuff, and I am waiting for his amber. My ds1 was a tough teether and to this day his sensory issues are on overdrive, he will complain for a half hour about a surface scratch. I won't invalidate his discomfort over small injuries but I also won't pull out the big guns to treat it, either. Some ice or arnica or what have you makes him feel cared for and at least takes the edge off.

[Hannah Elise]

I think homeopathic medicines work best in some cases. I had an abcess that orajel barely touched ( iwould have ripped my tooth out with my own bare hands if I could have, that was some heinous pain), while clove oil was my magic wand. There should be more info distributed about such by mainstrream medicine, I think. Some people won't touch anything not FDA sanctioned, so... IDK.

:giggle Andthen there are those of us who don't trust the FDA, hehe.

Pardon the typos - this was sent via Tapatalk on my cell phone!

[Katigre]

In case I wasn't clear, I agree with you completely. I was more talking about the general concept of medical pain management for babies, since the title of this thread is "The ethics of withholding pain relief from infants". I think it is worth noting that respecting an infant's pain needs a relatively *new* concept. It is a relatively *new* concept in the medical world to believe that babies can feel pain, that severe unmitigated pain causes subsequent physiological and emotional trauma in babies. 1992 was just twenty years ago!!!!

And even today, you can still see remnants of this attitude. The emotional needs of hospitalized babies are still not always respected. There are still NICUs that exist in our country today that do not allow parents to stay overnight and have "visiting" hours for parents. There are still NICUs that exist in our country today that operate on a "floor" model where they just line babies up in huge rows, even though there have been ample studies showing how hospitalized babies fare better in less stimulating environments and in smaller groupings/private areas so they are not constantly bombarded by the constant chaos of umpteen babies in a brightly lit room all day long. There still tends to be a minimization of the very *real* trauma that hospitalized infants continue to carry with them as they grow, and a presumption that still tends to be held by many which believes that babies don't carry any remembrance of hospitalization trauma, and that is simply not true. These are very real, very current ethical issues in the management of babies with critical health needs.
ITA with all of this :yes. I've seen in my own family how medical trauma from procedures during infancy can carry through into adulthood.

[Calliope]

I was more talking about the general concept of medical pain management for babies, since the title of this thread is "The ethics of withholding pain relief from infants". I think it is worth noting that respecting an infant's pain needs a relatively *new* concept. It is a relatively *new* concept in the medical world to believe that babies can feel pain, that severe unmitigated pain causes subsequent physiological and emotional trauma in babies....There still tends to be a minimization of the very *real* trauma that hospitalized infants continue to carry with them as they grow, and a presumption that still tends to be held by many which believes that babies don't carry any remembrance of hospitalization trauma, and that is simply not true. These are very real, very current ethical issues in the management of babies with critical health needs.

:yes Yes, this is really what I was going for. The teething issue was just what put it on my mind.

I guess my main point was if there is *real* pain/trauma for infant that an *adult* would need medication for can it really be justified to not give it to them because they are babies? Obviously, with your own babies you do what is best for them based on your assessment of their discomfort level. :yes

[Tandem mama]

I do natural pain relief first. Fwiw hyland's teething tables and some clove oil works for me when my wisdom teeth are moving and it works for my dds. :shrug if they needed something stronger like Motrin i would give it.

[eoconnel]

I medicate myself in various forms when I am in pain so why would I not do the same for children?

[illinoismommy]

Stronger meds have stronger side effects, and babies would have the worst times with them. I can't think of any stronger meds I would want to give my baby for general pain. They aren't ready to handle what it would do to their body and liver.

Surgery and other situations are different than just what I read in teething. I give motrin though.

[cbmk4]

Wholeheartedly agree with aggressive pain management for children. I got hung up on the example of teething, however, for a few reasons. First, as I said earlier, none of my kids were bothered by teething and secondly it's my experience that kids are often presumed to be fussy from teething when another source of their pain is found.

[Eowyn]

I have kids that like to pop 8 teeth at once, and thus far, it seems to be molars and eye teeth all at the same time for each of them. :banghead

I had to get a crown a few years back. The time I was wearing the temporary crown was *miserable*. My whole face hurt. I was so crabby and I didn't understand why, and I was 28. My babies typically have a pretty miserable time teething. There are some very specific behaviors they have when teeth are an issue, and we do Teething Tablets and amber during the day. At night, we use Motrin, as it has thus far been the most effective and useful for night time.

[Auroras mom]

Just because you or your children didn't suffer from teething pain doesn't mean it isn't real. I am a tad shocked at the assertion/implication.

And yes, I give homeopathic remedies or motrin, as needed for teething pain.

[Tandem mama]

Just because you or your children didn't suffer from teething pain doesn't mean it isn't real. I am a tad shocked at the assertion/implication.

And yes, I give homeopathic remedies or motrin, as needed for teething pain.

I didn't see anyone imply that :scratch I only saw people saying that their kid wasn't terribly affected or that homeopathy was enough and alopathic meds were not needed.

It was also mentioned that the risks of things more powerful than Motrin would require a baby to be monitored in a hospital. Too high of a risk for teething IMO.

[J3K]

I used my finger dipped in whiskey for each of the kids. Dip , shake off excess , apply to gums.
Frozen waffles work too.
As do spoons. Cold from the drawer (or sometimes the fridge) and the perfect shape for little mouths.
Frozen washcloths work too.
When those methods failed , I used Ibuprofen or Acetaminophen.

[Rabbit]

Narcotic pain relief is an extremely inappropriate choice for infants, when their pain on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being open heart surgery, 1 being a skinned knee) isn't higher than 2.

Their mouths are doing what they are designed to do. It is not the same pain as having a crown or a dental procedure. It's not significantly different than choosing not to have pharmaceutical pain relief to birth a baby, because the pain relief might actually cause more harm than going through what your body was designed to go through.

Even the OTC drugs have risks. Tylenol is closely associated with asthma. Advil can cause sudden death because it can cause a stomach bleed.

There are other, safer alternatives for teething pain than drugs.

[dukeofhazzard]

This is not completely off topic, but definitely a rabbit trail :O. When Q was small, they pulled Hyland's teething tabs from the shelves, but I just saw them for sale yesterday at Babies R Us... What's up?

[LilacPhoenix]

They added a child-resistant top. And might have slightly changed the formulation but I'm not sure...

[Rabbit]

And while we're on the topic of pain relief, I learned when my son and my husband had surgery that your pain relief options are severely limited.

You can have narcotics/opioids, which all work the same way in the brain, or you can have NSAIDs, which also all pretty much work the same way.

Narcotic pain relief doesn't work on my husband and son's brains. They get all of the side effects, none of the relief. My husband is also allergic to the entire class, for some double fun.

NSAIDs increase bleeding, and are not an appropriate choice for maintenance post surgery. The only pain option that worked for Simon with a broken bone was plain, OTC tylenol. Narcotics made him feel sick on top of hurting. Advil inhibits the bone growth required after breaks, so he couldn't have it.

There aren't other options. There are a lot of different brand names, but in the end, it boils down to just those two choices. Narcotics or NSAIDs.

That alone is why there aren't more trials into understanding simple teething pain. There is nothing more to do for it. You've got all the pain choices available to you already.

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

This is not completely off topic, but definitely a rabbit trail :O. When Q was small, they pulled Hyland's teething tabs from the shelves, but I just saw them for sale yesterday at Babies R Us... What's up?

They got in trouble for having inconsistent amounts of the ingredients in the actual products, and for children ingesting entire bottles at once. Sometimes, a batch might have enough belladonna in it to do harm. So they had to tighten up their quality control, and limit child access.

[Auroras mom]

I didn't see anyone imply that :scratch I only saw people saying that their kid wasn't terribly affected or that homeopathy was enough and alopathic meds were not needed.

It was also mentioned that the risks of things more powerful than Motrin would require a baby to be monitored in a hospital. Too high of a risk for teething IMO.


Yeah, someone seemed to imply that twice by asking to see studies that show that teething causes significant pain and by stating that teething pain is "assumed" by parents but is often something else.

Anyway, I think the OP is speaking of withholding motrin from babies for teething, which I know lots of women who do. I don't think *anyone* is proposing offering morphine for teething pain. That would be excessive. I have one friend who won't even give her babies a cold wash cloth to chew on when teething, as she thinks they need to learn to "deal with pain." This is fairly common in the "crunchy" community, and I had a very diffficult time reconciling myself with that practice when dd was a baby, as I was told "anything that isn't mother's milk that you give her will ruin her gut health and kill her immune system for life."

[Calliope]

I agree that the general question is muddied by the specific example of "teething". No, it's not appropriate to be giving fentanyl to a teething baby. I can't fathom stronger medication than OTC stuff can provide for "teething".

Okay, LOL, you win!! :P~ Teething was a bad example. I only brought it up because it was mentioned to me lately as being of a pain level greater than most adults could handle with OTC medicine.

My main point remains that infants, by and large, are given pain relief that errs on the side of too weak because of the purported risks (to the liver or brain or whatever) of too much. I guess, I worry that many infants suffer needlessly because of the age old medical view that if you won't remember it, then it doesn't matter. :-/

[Barefoot Bookworm]

I agree with medicating them if they need it. With teething, it all depended on the child. My first teethed with no problem. I'd be shocked to see teeth that had popped through and I had no idea she was working on them. My fourth? Just screamed for 30 minutes straight and gnawed at me while the ibuprofen kicked in, amber teething necklace and all.

[Tandem mama]

Yeah, someone seemed to imply that twice by asking to see studies that show that teething causes significant pain and by stating that teething pain is "assumed" by parents but is often something else.

Anyway, I think the OP is speaking of withholding motrin from babies for teething, which I know lots of women who do. I don't think *anyone* is proposing offering morphine for teething pain. That would be excessive. I have one friend who won't even give her babies a cold wash cloth to chew on when teething, as she thinks they need to learn to "deal with pain." This is fairly common in the "crunchy" community, and I had a very diffficult time reconciling myself with that practice when dd was a baby, as I was told "anything that isn't mother's milk that you give her will ruin her gut health and kill her immune system for life."

I think you are reading intent into the question for studies regarding the pain level of teething.
Is it not true that occasionally parents assume a child is teething because they're acting like they're in pain? Is it not true tht occasionally an ear ache or other issue is overlooked initially because teething is blamed? I've seen that happen before because a non verbal baby in pain leads to a lot of guessing what's wrong for the parent. It wasn't a statement indicating that teething pain is imaginary or insignificant. Again, I really think you're reading a tone and intent that simply weren't in this thread.

The op asked why something stronger than the currently available OTC meds for teething pain don't exist-not withholding Motrin.

The idea of not even giving a baby a cold washcloth is ridiculous IMO.

[danou]

In response to the original post... evidence of this thinking/practice (insufficiently managing pain, or non-management) makes me sick. I have a whole rant on this topic... it shows how the medical culture and the general culture at large has a profound disrespect for babies- little not quite humans. One of you mentioned surgeries as late as the 90's being performed without anesthetic... are you serious. Pinch a baby and it cries- who the heck thinks surgery would be possible??? Don't even get me started on the circumcision thing!!! Yank on a kid's head on the way out of mama and wonder why poor thing cries all the time? Break his little shoulder and offer no med? This disrespect spills over into mainstream parenting in so many areas... Babywise and the like. Even less severe instances- like being afraid to comfort a child at night because "they might form a habit".

Ok- that was a lot of ranting... umm I'll stop now. Forgive me rambling-ness.

[LadybugSam]

I just recently watched a segment on Accent Health (the monthly video they play in my dr's office) saying that children aren't REALLY in pain when they're teething. Makes me mad every time. I recently had wisdom teeth come in and it HURT. I assume the same when ti comes to my kids.

That being said, i didn't need to be medicated 24 hours a day, just when it would get really bad, so i watch my kids for a reaction and if they seem to be in pain i medicate. I do use amber necklaces and teething tablets first though. I really dont' feel comfortable with western medicine (medications, i mean).

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I've gotten handouts from two pediatricians' offices saying that teething generally causes no discomfort. (I really want them to come comfort nurse my baby all night long. :shifty)

As a child, I lost my two front teeth when I was 6 and didn't get them in for two years, so I "teethed" because the gums were completely healed. I don't remember, but my mom says I complained of it hurting. :shrug3

I'd like to know if there have been studies on teething infants. Why the controversy over whether it hurts or not? :think

[Zooey]

There IS "crunchy" pain relief :shrug3 My babies have used hylands teething tablets and amber necklackes. So just because a mom is not giving ibuprofin doesn't mean they are witholding relief.
Homeopathics are amazing.:yes

I medicate myself in various forms when I am in pain so why would I not do the same for children?
This is so true, it seems obvious, but sadly there are still people who treat babies as though they were less than human.
For the record, whisky rubbed into the gums is a :rockonterrific idea. Works well, & fewer side effects than most OTC meds.


Actually, this is maybe going to sound weird, but I think this is an attitude that is also seen in treatment of various ethnic groups, too. The number of elderly people that I have heard say :mad"Oh, [insert minority of choice] don't feel pain the way we do":sick.....which is what they were told when they were young,& still believe it.
Somehow, there is a pattern of thinking that anyone "other" is somehow immune to pain, & it seems impossible to dislodge from some folks brains.

[mokamoto]

Homeopathics are amazing.:yes


This is so true, it seems obvious, but sadly there are still people who treat babies as though they were less than human.
For the record, whisky rubbed into the gums is a :rockonterrific idea. Works well, & fewer side effects than most OTC meds.


Actually, this is maybe going to sound weird, but I think this is an attitude that is also seen in treatment of various ethnic groups, too. The number of elderly people that I have heard say :mad"Oh, [insert minority of choice] don't feel pain the way we do":sick.....which is what they were told when they were young,& still believe it.
Somehow, there is a pattern of thinking that anyone "other" is somehow immune to pain, & it seems impossible to dislodge from some folks brains.

From a different perspective, pain is treated very minimally here in Japan. The culture just accepts that it is a natural part of life if the cause is not obvious and visible. I'll never forget the dentist who chalked up my pain reaction to not being Japanese and handling pain differently!

[Housekat]

:popcorn

[Leslie_JJKs_mom]

I have one friend who won't even give her babies a cold wash cloth to chew on when teething, as she thinks they need to learn to "deal with pain." This is fairly common in the "crunchy" community,

wow, just wow. I cannot fathom how people who do not let their babies cry and are very nurturing would turn around and do nothing for their baby's pain. :( My daughter never showed any evidence of being in pain but if she had I would have given her pain medication.

[Annainprogress]

Giving any alcohol to children under 5 except under medical advice is illegal in the UK. Therefore using whisky for teething is illegal here ;). I used Ashton & Parson's powders ("herbal" in origin rather than homeopathic I think) and paracetamol (tylenol) if needed. And various chewy toys/teething aids. As they got older occasionally I have used ibuprofen (motrin) rather than paracetamol (didn't but any until DS was around 3 because of the asthma link). I got amber necklaces just recently but DS has used them with adult teeth coming in a couple of times.

[Amy]

From a different perspective, pain is treated very minimally here in Japan. The culture just accepts that it is a natural part of life if the cause is not obvious and visible. I'll never forget the dentist who chalked up my pain reaction to not being Japanese and handling pain differently!

I have vestibulodynia and am on a facebook group of women suffering from vulvodynia. This way of looking at pain is not okay at all for us. Our pain isn't visible and not obvious, it's still very little understood and very few OBGYNs know how to treat or even know what it is. I have to drive two hours to get treated, my local obgyn couldn't diagnose or treat me. For some of these ladies the pain is so great Narcotics don't touch it. I've had flair ups where narcotics haven't helped much. I wonder how many Japanese women are suffering from something similar and are just dismissed because the pain isn't obvious and visible. A lot of the women I know that have suffered from this already have enough trouble finding dr's who can diagnose and treat the condition. It's heartbreaking to think of.

[Zooey]

From a different perspective, pain is treated very minimally here in Japan. The culture just accepts that it is a natural part of life if the cause is not obvious and visible. I'll never forget the dentist who chalked up my pain reaction to not being Japanese and handling pain differently!
Yes, this is true....There is a cultural component in so many things.
But then, I have to wonder about :(all the Japanese folks who may be in great pain, & :cryhave no relief because the culture *assumes* that pain is normal/minimal.

[purplerose]

I think the next time these "specialists" say that teething doesn't hurt babies, we all give them our crying, miserables babies to watch til the teething episode is over! :wink

I had a child with very minimal teething issues and two others who were MISERABLE!! I tried the frozen washcloths first, then went to Hylands and there were times when that was fine, and times when it didn't help one bit. I would use tylenol or ibuprofen and that seems to limit the pain.

I also disagree with doctors who says that a slight fever, diaper rash and diarrheah (sp) are not associated with teething. My kids ALWAYS had these when they were teething and sure enough when the tooth popped through, the symptoms went away. I had 1 pediatrician *who had 5 kids* that agreed with me. I also hate it when peds say "Well it never xyz with my kids". All kids are different.

I keep thinking of menstrual pain. :shifty I don't know why?! :wink
I know that some women have horrible miserable periods and others don't. Just shows how we are all individuals and everything affects us differently!

[Zooey]

I think the next time these "specialists" say that teething doesn't hurt babies, we all give them our crying, miserables babies to watch til the teething episode is over! :wink

I had a child with very minimal teething issues and two others who were MISERABLE!! I tried the frozen washcloths first, then went to Hylands and there were times when that was fine, and times when it didn't help one bit. I would use tylenol or ibuprofen and that seems to limit the pain.

I also disagree with doctors who says that a slight fever, diaper rash and diarrheah (sp) are not associated with teething. My kids ALWAYS had these when they were teething and sure enough when the tooth popped through, the symptoms went away. I had 1 pediatrician *who had 5 kids* that agreed with me. I also hate it when peds say "Well it never xyz with my kids". All kids are different.
This.

I keep thinking of menstrual pain. :shifty I don't know why?! :wink
I know that some women have horrible miserable periods and others don't. Just shows how we are all individuals and everything affects us differently!
I think that's a good comparison, too. Both are natural processes of the body, yet any one individual may have greatly varying effects than another.

[SweetCaroline]

Anyway, I think the OP is speaking of withholding motrin from babies for teething, which I know lots of women who do. I don't think *anyone* is proposing offering morphine for teething pain. That would be excessive. I have one friend who won't even give her babies a cold wash cloth to chew on when teething, as she thinks they need to learn to "deal with pain." This is fairly common in the "crunchy" community, and I had a very diffficult time reconciling myself with that practice when dd was a baby, as I was told "anything that isn't mother's milk that you give her will ruin her gut health and kill her immune system for life."
yes. i think people can be so staunch on an ideal that they lock themselves in and other people can suffer for it.
OP, im glad you brought this up. this is actually something i think about alot.
i always try natural methods first. but if baby is still hurting, then ibuprofin it shall be :shrug

i would want somebody to do the same for me.

[Zooey]

yes. i think people can be so staunch on an ideal that they lock themselves in and other people can suffer for it.
OP, im glad you brought this up. this is actually something i think about alot.
i always try natural methods first. but if baby is still hurting, then ibuprofin it shall be :shrug

i would want somebody to do the same for me.
This. Esp. the part I bolded....

[J3K]

n/m

[dukeofhazzard]

J3K, :roll. Not like I haven't thought about it. :shifty

[mokamoto]

Yes, this is true....There is a cultural component in so many things.
But then, I have to wonder about :(all the Japanese folks who may be in great pain, & :cryhave no relief because the culture *assumes* that pain is normal/minimal.

Precisely! I don't appreciate this approach to pain at all. The perspective complicates finding regular medical care.