Ramiel Nagel Cure Teeth Naturally Diet - Help Me Please

[marigold]

So, we were discussing diffrent ideas of tooth remineralization here:
http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=450917
I can do xzylitol and fluoride but how do I even begin to change our diet this radically. Bread is life giving sustenance in my background. What does one eat on a no grain, no seeds, no nuts, and no beans diet? :scratch I cannot begin to fathom this and my dds teeth need me to do so quickly. Anyone have some good resources/blogs/menus they can send my way? Thanks

[treehugginmama]

Ithought grains beans and nuts are ok on WPF

[melliethepooh]

It sounds like you're describing GAPS or paleo, which might fall under the WP umbrella but are more restrictive.

[Mother of Sons]

I eat nuts and seeds in moderation but no grains or beans. It's overwhelming at first but there is very good food on this diet. Where there used to be a grain with outlr meal I just add another veggie.

[marigold]

Ok so I read the book "Cure Teeth Naturally" by Ramiel Nagel and I thought he was following Dr Price's protocol but maybe he has modified it extensively. I was reading very fast and found it rather overwhelming, as in lots of info, brain overload.
Changed title to be more accurate. :blush

[Katigre]

So, we were discussing diffrent ideas of tooth remineralization here:
http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=450917
I can do xzylitol and fluoride but how do I even begin to change our diet this radically. Bread is life giving sustenance in my background. What does one eat on a no grain, no seeds, no nuts, and no beans diet? :scratch I cannot begin to fathom this and my dds teeth need me to do so quickly. Anyone have some good resources/blogs/menus they can send my way? Thanks
First of all, not everything needs to be done ASAP or a radical change - some people work well that way but for myself I do best with more gradual steps. So pick one meal (for us it was dinner) and cook it without any grains consistently for a few weeks. Or address their snacks and weed out the cereal bars and such. If you need recipes, try these:
www.everydaypaleo.com
www.theclothesmakethegirl.com
www.paleoparents.com

There are many more out there. FWIW, we do have nuts and seeds (in moderation - overdoing them isn't healthy) and eat a lot of fruits/vegetables/eggs/fish/turkey/chicken/beef.

I eat nuts and seeds in moderation but no grains or beans. It's overwhelming at first but there is very good food on this diet. Where there used to be a grain with outlr meal I just add another veggie.
I have found the same thing :yes. Grains were displacing the place of more nutrient-dense and healthier foods in my diet. Once they were cut out, I had more room for vegetables and other things like increased protein (which I'm supposed to get while pregnant - and it seems to be working b/c it's summer and i'm 32 weeks pregnant yet have ZERO swelling :jawdrop).

[marigold]

I think I'm ok with suppers - my MIL is a celiac and we eat a lot of rice and potatoes, White Basmati rice was a cheat he mentioned somewhere and I can staet switching in more yams for potatoes. Breakie is my biggest hurdle, we eat store bought whole grain cereal and toast.
Good to know I can sub in a little nuts - ds loves them.

[sweetpeasmommy]

I haven't read the book, but we do GAPS and eat none of the things listed in the OP and are doing fine. :) We have been able to see C's adult teeth come in beautiful! Such an improvement from his baby teeth which came in with little enamel and spots on them.

[mommychem]

Following along since I bought the book on kindle last week. Before I got it, I bought FCLO/BO and started giving that to her. I agree that there are lots of wonderful foods to use as replacements. My biggest challenge is not breaking the bank to do so.

FWIW I felt a teeny tiny victory in that I pre-chopped lots of veggies to be able to grab as a snack. A few months ago I would've grabbed a rice cake. I've got bone broth simmering on the stove (6 hours into it). I'd really like to start canning next. Baby steps..

For breakfast, eggs, eggs, and more eggs :giggle. Vegetable sides make it a bit more interesting - kale, spinach, onions, broccoli, etc.

[Soliloquy]

Meat, eggs, vegetables, raw cheeses, olive oil, grass-fed butter, evco, broth, unrefined salt. FCLO is absolutely essential. I would add in magnesium oil (topically) and humic & fulvic minerals.

Nagel is much more restrictive than Price and slightly more restrictive than full GAPS. All 3 are distinctly different than paleo, although you might find some paleo recipes that meet your needs. Nagel discourages nuts due to high phytates but does allow 100% rye sourdough.

Have you looked into GAPS?

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[treehugginmama]

I have to second magnesium oil. I spray it on everyones toothbrush on top of the toothpaste.

[mamacat]

My kids are teens and changing diet and sticking to it is hard to enforce but wanted to let you know that even when outright sugar is involved :shifty doing the things like xylitol chewing and cocounut oil and adding healthier dairy products etc.other things has still helped my dds teeth to remineralize and cavities to heal and not progress

[Soliloquy]

I have to second magnesium oil. I spray it on everyones toothbrush on top of the toothpaste.

:yes

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[marigold]

Meat, eggs, vegetables, raw cheeses, olive oil, grass-fed butter, evco, broth, unrefined salt. FCLO is absolutely essential. I would add in magnesium oil (topically) and humic & fulvic minerals.

Nagel is much more restrictive than Price and slightly more restrictive than full GAPS. All 3 are distinctly different than paleo, although you might find some paleo recipes that meet your needs. Nagel discourages nuts due to high phytates but does allow 100% rye sourdough.

Have you looked into GAPS?

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What are humic and fulvic minerals?:scratch
What is the GAPS diet? The thing I've found most confusing in trying to figure out what we should be eating is all these different diets and what they entail.
I thought topical meant on the skin not ingested why on the tooth brush? :think So it goes on the gums?
Aye,Nagel's sourdough is a wee bit daunting t first though as he want you to sprout it, dry it, and then sour it if I understand correctly. I thought we'd work on slightly easier changes first.:lol

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

My kids are teens and changing diet and sticking to it is hard to enforce but wanted to let you know that even when outright sugar is involved :shifty doing the things like xylitol chewing and cocounut oil and adding healthier dairy products etc.other things has still helped my dds teeth to remineralize and cavities to heal and not progress

Thank-you. That's great to know. :rockon As my kidlets are still smaller I thought we'd go all out and try to hit the sugar hardcore whilst we have the chance and maybe then add some of the cheats back in.

[treehugginmama]

Topical means on top pretty much. It would go on your teeth and gums. You can even use magnesium oil as a mouthwash but I'm not that brave. It's very salty.

[Soliloquy]

What are humic and fulvic minerals?:scratch
What is the GAPS diet? The thing I've found most confusing in trying to figure out what we should be eating is all these different diets and what they entail.
I thought topical meant on the skin not ingested why on the tooth brush? :think So it goes on the gums?
Aye,Nagel's sourdough is a wee bit daunting t first though as he want you to sprout it, dry it, and then sour it if I understand correctly. I thought we'd work on slightly easier changes first.:lol

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------



Thank-you. That's great to know. :rockon As my kidlets are still smaller I thought we'd go all out and try to hit the sugar hardcore whilst we have the chance and maybe then add some of the cheats back in.

Topical meaning you can rub it into your skin or into your gums via toothbrushing. Basically bypassing the GI tract.

Humic & fulvic minerals www.vitalearthminerals.com these REALLY made a difference in a lot of our issues, including teeth. Humic minerals are a TASTELESS black liquid. I mix it 50/50 with water, add a little honey, and my kids call it their special coffee. They love it.

GAPS Diet, Gut & Psychology Syndrome www.gapsdiet.com we have a support group on FB, let me or sweetpeasmommy know if you want to join

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[marigold]

[QUOTE=
GAPS Diet, Gut & Psychology Syndrome www.gapsdiet.com (http://www.gapsdiet.com) we have a support group on FB, let me or sweetpeasmommy know if you want to join

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Sorry I'm a hold out on modern communication ;) No facebook page for me

On another note my kids snack a couple times a day and I'm just not finding any snack ideas on these paleo sites. What do your kids eat for snacks, especially on the go?

[gentlemommy]

Topical meaning you can rub it into your skin or into your gums via toothbrushing. Basically bypassing the GI tract.

Is this something you can get from vitacost? Is there a certain brand or things to look for/avoid when purchasing the magnesium oil?

Humic & fulvic minerals www.vitalearthminerals.com these REALLY made a difference in a lot of our issues, including teeth. Humic minerals are a TASTELESS black liquid. I mix it 50/50 with water, add a little honey, and my kids call it their special coffee. They love it.

Thanks for the link. :heart Since it is considered a detoxifier, do you know if it's safe for nursing moms?

GAPS Diet, Gut & Psychology Syndrome www.gapsdiet.com we have a support group on FB, let me or sweetpeasmommy know if you want to join

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If you don't mind one more question...How is GAPS different from paleo? I'm thinking of trying paleo for overall health, and especially for tooth health.

Oh, one more question. :shifty Is the FCLO much better than the Carlson's CLO? And what flavor of the FCLO is most tolerable? I thought I remember you saying to stay away from a certain flavor. Was it chocolate? Annnnnd that was actually 3 more questions. :shifty :giggle :ty

[mommychem]

Is this something you can get from vitacost? Is there a certain brand or things to look for/avoid when purchasing the magnesium oil?



Thanks for the link. :heart Since it is considered a detoxifier, do you know if it's safe for nursing moms?



If you don't mind one more question...How is GAPS different from paleo? I'm thinking of trying paleo for overall health, and especially for tooth health.

Oh, one more question. :shifty Is the FCLO much better than the Carlson's CLO? And what flavor of the FCLO is most tolerable? I thought I remember you saying to stay away from a certain flavor. Was it chocolate? Annnnnd that was actually 3 more questions. :shifty :giggle :ty

Must find out more about magnesium oil :tu

We have FCLO/Butter oil combo. The chocolate is HORRIBLE! :sick :giggle When my 3 year old first started taking it, we called it her "chocolate vitamin." I put a little honey on top and she took it like a pro...for about a month. :shifty Now, we have to do all kinds of tricks to help her get it down. I'm pretty sure FCLO is MUCH better than Carlson's because of the fermentation. It's not heavily processed as the others or deodorized so you keep all of the goodness without any funky processing byproducts. I'm sure LisaM can expound on it much better. :wink

[treehugginmama]

I make my own Magnesium oil but before that I used Life Flo. Frontier and Amazon had the best price.

[marigold]

[QUOTE=gentlemommy;4690494 Is there a certain brand or things to look for/avoid when purchasing the magnesium oil?



Thanks for the link. :heart Since it is considered a detoxifier, do you know if it's safe for nursing moms?



If you don't mind one more question...How is GAPS different from paleo? I'm thinking of trying paleo for overall health, and especially for tooth health.


Oh, one more question. :shifty Is the FCLO much better than the Carlson's CLO? And what flavor of the FCLO is most tolerable? I thought I remember you saying to stay away from a certain flavor. Was it chocolate? Annnnnd that was actually 3 more questions. :shifty :giggle :ty[/QUOTE]

:yes]Yes, I'd love to know the answer to these question.The fermented is supposedly a lot better because it is not pasteurised or pressure treated so it retains all of it's original vitamins and nutrients whereas the other processing methods remove them all and then add in standardised amounts of the synthetic versions.

[Katigre]

Re: Difference between GAPS and Paleo. In my (limited) understanding they overlap quite a bit but have different emphasis. GAPS is focused on gut healing and bone broth is HUGE with it - a central component. It also allows some foods that paleo doesn't (and vice versa). But overall the two are for the most part compatible. Paleo is not focused on gut healing specifically though bone broth is seen as a good and healthy thing to make and eat. It's focused on eating whole foods (vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, meat, eggs, healthy fats (avocado, coconut, olives, etc...), fish, omega-3's, etc... The 'no's' are grains/dairy/legumes/sugar (except honey is considered ok by some - I'm fine with it in small amounts :yes).

Sorry I'm a hold out on modern communication ;) No facebook page for me

On another note my kids snack a couple times a day and I'm just not finding any snack ideas on these paleo sites. What do your kids eat for snacks, especially on the go?
My kids snack at least twice a day and here is a sampling of what they eat:
Fresh fruit/vegetables
Ants on a Log (use almond butter of sunflower seed butter)
Lara bars (homemade or store bought)
Smoothies - I do green smoothies with avocado and spinach plus a bunch of tropical fruits that are SO good
Homemade popsicles (coconut milk mixed with various pureed frozen fruits so you get the whole fiber of the fruit plus the creaminess of the coconut milk - I let them have these as part of breakfast too if they want).
Homemade crackers/muffins/cookies (most of these are made with coconut flour/almond flour/almond butter/fruit and VERY limited sweetener - I am currently baking an entire cookie tray of 'bar cookies' (DS uses them as sandwich bread) and the only sugar in the thing is 2 Tbsp of raw/buckwheat honey).
Nuts/seeds (cashews are a favorite)
Fruit leather
Seaweed snacks (Trader Joe's sells them for .99/package and DD :heart them so much)
Kale Chips (homemade - bake kale in the oven and it gets nice and crispy, toss in salt-lemon juice beforehand)
Yogurt tubes (DS - he has limited dairy and these aren'et totally paleo, but they are organic and I'm ok with it)
Lunch meat
Leftovers (especially plain chicken they like)
Egg Muffins (more of a meal but can be a snack too)

I'm sure I'm forgetting something...but the Eat Like a Dinosaur book has a TON of snack ideas/recipes in it that we utilize quite a bit (though I cut their sugar suggestions in half if not more - the bar cookies in the oven are from their book and called for 1/2 cup of sweetener and I put it at just 2 Tbsp and the kids love them just the same ;)). www.paleoparents.com is their site.

[Soliloquy]

FCLO is exponentially superior to all other forms. Every other clo is deodorized which destroys most of the vitamins, enzymes, & co-factors. Cinnamon is the best flavor, imo.

Here are two blog entries in FCLO by a very knowledgeable GCM:

http://www.lovingourguts.com/fermented-cod-liver-oil/

http://www.lovingourguts.com/fclo-winners-and-a-report-on-the-lecture-by-dave-wetzel-of-green-pasture/

If you sub to her blog, she's got cutting edge info. :tu

Paleo is a philosophy of eating what ppl ate prior to agrarian societies, basically what the hunter-gatherer ate. GAPS & Nagel's dental healing plan fall under the umbrella of WAPF (Weston A Price Foundation), based on the research of Weston A Price. Paleo is not based on Price's research. Paleo has a list of foods that are considered good and a list of foods to be avoided. WAPF is different in that not only are processed & modern foods avoided, but there is an emphasis on consuming nutrient-dense foods and "super" foods, aka "sacred" foods because the traditional peoples went to extreme lengths to make certain they had them. The super foods include: raw animal products, fermented vegetables, iodine-rich foods like oysters, fermented cod liver oil, fermented fish, fermented dairy, raw butter from exclusively grass-fed cattle, raw cheese, organ meats (offal), and bone broth. Not every culture had all these, some cultures did not have dairy, but every single culture consumed some form of RAW animal product and fermented food. Foods containing phytates (grains, legumes, & nuts) were very carefully prepared over a period of several days to enhance their digestability.

The book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Weston A Price is absolutely fascinating, even if you only look at the photographs. It is available free online or you can buy it at amazon.

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[Soliloquy]

Snacks--
Cheese sticks
raw veggies & dip (i make my own sour cream and add salt and herbs :yum)
Fresh or dried fruit
Muffins made with coconut flour

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[Soliloquy]

List of WAPF food ideals. (it's missing "do not use a microwave")

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics/dietary-guidelines



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[milkdud]

We adhere pretty strictly to Nagel's guidelines, bc of severe decay. For foods my kids have:

Summer sausage
Cheese
Hardboiled eggs, deviled eggs, egg muffins w/sausage or bacon
Kefir smoothies made with frozen winter squash and pumpkin pie spices ( this allows it to be sweet, without having to add honey or fruit) I also hide raw liver in it
Chicken pancakes
Seaweed snacks
Yogurt
Meatballs w/ cauliflower gravy
Burgers
Spaghetti sauce (also a great place for hiding organ meat)
Veggies and kefir ranch

That's all I can think of for now. :)

If your daughter's teeth are really bad, I would encourage you to start sooner rather than later. I also think it to be most beneficial to remove all foods that are allowed, but can still hinder healing, for a bit. Give her time to replenish her deficiencies and heal. It is easier to do away with them completely, rather than deal with meltdowns over wanting sweet or nuts. It was several months before I started letting mine have a small amount of fruit or honey here and there.

We have always done CLO. It didn't help anything. Fclo has made a huge difference in everyone's health. The cinnamon blend isn't too bad, btw. :)

[Katigre]

List of WAPF food ideals. (it's missing "do not use a microwave")

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics/dietary-guidelines



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Thanks for posting that list. FWIW, here are the guidelines that overlap with Paleo/Primal eating and are emphasized in those books/forums/blogs/websites (I also see WAP Foundation mentioned semi-often and in affirmative ways :yes):

1. Eat whole, natural foods.
2. Eat only foods that will spoil, but eat them before they do.
3. Eat naturally-raised meat including fish, seafood, poultry, beef, lamb, game, organ meats and eggs.
5. Use only traditional fats and oils including butter and other animal fats, extra virgin olive oil, expeller expressed sesame and flax oil and the tropical oils—coconut and palm. 6. Eat fresh fruits and vegetables, preferably organic, in salads and soups, or lightly steamed.
10. Use herb teas and coffee substitutes in moderation.
12. Use unrefined Celtic sea salt and a variety of herbs and spices for food interest and appetite stimulation.
13. Make your own salad dressing using raw vinegar, extra virgin olive oil and expeller expressed flax oil.
14. Use natural sweeteners in moderation, such as raw honey, maple syrup, dehydrated cane sugar juice and stevia powder.
17. Use only natural supplements.
18. Get plenty of sleep, exercise and natural light.
19. Think positive thoughts and minimize stress.

Some overlap with Paleo - depends on the person:
4. Eat whole, naturally-produced milk products from pasture-fed cows, preferably raw and/or fermented, such as whole yogurt, cultured butter, whole cheeses and fresh and sour cream. [Paleo/primal tends to say 'dairy is a gray area - if your body tolerates it well then consume them as listed above - grass fed, raw, organic, full-fat. If your body doesn't tolerate dairy then no worries, it wasn't a common food among pre-agricultural people"]
7. Use whole grains and nuts that have been prepared by soaking, sprouting or sour leavening to neutralize phytic acid and other anti-nutrients. [No grains at all in paleo/primal but nuts are ok in moderation - not to excess due to phytate content].
8. Include enzyme-enhanced lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages and condiments in your diet on a regular basis. [Some discussion of ferments and their importance but it seems more optional than essential]
9. Prepare homemade meat stocks from the bones of chicken, beef, lamb or fish and use liberally in soups and sauces. [This is talked about as being very healthful, ESPECIALLY when discussions of 'calcium! what about calcium!' come up Lots of recipes and recommendations for making your own broth]
11. Use filtered water for cooking and drinking. [I follow this but it's not strictly part of paleo/primal]
15. Use only unpasteurized wine or beer in strict moderation with meals. [Generally the recommendation is not to drink alchohol or if you do only in very limited quantities, without gluten/sugar]
16. Cook only in stainless steel, cast iron, glass or good quality enamel. [I follow this but not everyone does]
20. Practice forgiveness.

[Soliloquy]

Yes, there are many similarities but the philosophy behind them is different.

Every paleo book and site I've seen has been anti dairy. Dairy, if used at all, is a occasional condiment. I didn't know some use dairy in large amounts. I think the use of grains & legumes is a pretty huge difference, though.


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[Katigre]

:yes The underlying philosophy is different.

There is no grain/legumes in paleo/primal (unless you count occasional quinoa/wild rice in there which some use). Dairy isn't used heavily, more of a sometimes thing but there is a big emphasis that if you do use dairy fermented/raw is the way to go.

BTW - where do you get your coconut flour? Do you have a better priced source than Vitacost.com for the 1 lb containers? I really need to find a better price :yes.

[treehugginmama]

I get mine from Amazon using the subscribe and save. It's $22 for 4-16lb bags.

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

Oh and that has free shipping also.

[Katigre]

Link please???

[treehugginmama]

http://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Red-Mill-Organic-16-Ounce/dp/B000KENKZ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339789481&sr=8-1&keywords=bob+mills+coconut+flour

If you get it make sure you do the subscribe and save though so you can save the $4

[mokamoto]

We adhere pretty strictly to Nagel's guidelines, bc of severe decay. For foods my kids have:

Summer sausage
Cheese
Hardboiled eggs, deviled eggs, egg muffins w/sausage or bacon
Kefir smoothies made with frozen winter squash and pumpkin pie spices ( this allows it to be sweet, without having to add honey or fruit) I also hide raw liver in it
Chicken pancakes
Seaweed snacks
Yogurt
Meatballs w/ cauliflower gravy
Burgers
Spaghetti sauce (also a great place for hiding organ meat)
Veggies and kefir ranch

That's all I can think of for now. :)

If your daughter's teeth are really bad, I would encourage you to start sooner rather than later. I also think it to be most beneficial to remove all foods that are allowed, but can still hinder healing, for a bit. Give her time to replenish her deficiencies and heal. It is easier to do away with them completely, rather than deal with meltdowns over wanting sweet or nuts. It was several months before I started letting mine have a small amount of fruit or honey here and there.

We have always done CLO. It didn't help anything. Fclo has made a huge difference in everyone's health. The cinnamon blend isn't too bad, btw. :)

What is FCLO? I'm new to this! :ty4

[mommychem]

fermented cod liver oil :heart

[marigold]

Where do you all find lunch meat for snacking that doesn't have nitrates in it? What is a Lara bar? Isn't dried fruit high in sugar and something to avoid? How do you make cauliflower gravy?

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------


If your daughter's teeth are really bad, I would encourage you to start sooner rather than later. I also think it to be most beneficial to remove all foods that are allowed, but can still hinder healing, for a bit. Give her time to replenish her deficiencies and heal. It is easier to do away with them completely, rather than deal with meltdowns over wanting sweet or nuts. It was several months before I started letting mine have a small amount of fruit or honey here and there.

We have always done CLO. It didn't help anything. Fclo has made a huge difference in everyone's health. The cinnamon blend isn't too bad, btw. :)

I am working on implementing this as fast as I can comprehend it :yes So far I've:
*found a source of raw dairy products - which dd doesn't like :doh
*am trying a first grain free day today. We had eggs abd sausage with tomato and cucumber slices for breakfast. Apple slices for snack. Bone Broth with pureed carrots, garlic tomatoes and herbs, with shredded cheddar on top. Grapes with fresh whip cream for dessert. Watermelon for afternoon snack. Supper we are having BBQ Chicken, steamed Brussels sprouts with garlic butter and salad.
*located a local source of FCLO, now I have to call and go pick it up if it is in stock
*ordered tooth powder, have xylitol mints, and flouride anti-cavity mouth wash.
Questions I'm running into
*can I make do with non-organic meat. I honestly don't know if we can afford it.
Well I guess that is just one, but it is big.

[milkdud]

Non organic meat is ok. Just do the best with what you can. :)

There were a lot of foods my kids wouldn't touch at first. As we removed the grains and other foods, their tastes changed and they ask for stuff that makes me stare at them like they've been taken over by aliens. :lol She may start to like dairy in small amounts. Does she like ranch dressing for dipping? you can make that with raw dairy. The whipped cream you made is a good way to get it in, too. :yes

Your plan for today looks good. Per the book though, that may be a bit too much fruit. Each time she eats it, the blood sugar is spiked for 5h. During that time, minerals that should be going to strengthening the integrity of her teeth, are being used to stabilize her blood sugar and actually leaches it from the teeth as well. That's all I have to say. Otherwise you are off to a great start! :tu

[gentlemommy]

Humic & fulvic minerals www.vitalearthminerals.com these REALLY made a difference in a lot of our issues, including teeth. Humic minerals are a TASTELESS black liquid. I mix it 50/50 with water, add a little honey, and my kids call it their special coffee. They love it.

Do you use the humic/fulvic blend on that webpage? Do you take it yourself? The detox properties make me nervous since I'm still nursing.


I'm also nervous about ordering the FCLO. I don't want to waste money if no one will be able to choke it down. We got the orange flavor blue ice liquid CLO a few years ago, and it was awful. I couldn't get it down and dd didn't like it either. Then we got a little bit on her shirt and I washed it with her laundry, and her whole load of clothes REEKED of the stuff. I tried everyting to get the smell out, and couldn't. :( We also tried the butter oil and we all thought it was nasty. We ended up throwing it all away (CLO, clothes, butter oil) and it ended up being a VERY expensive experiment. :(

Yet I keep hearing how great it is, and we all have teeth issues, so I think it would be so good for us. :-/ Not sure what to do...I've heard the FCLO is way nastier than the CLO...any advice greatly appreciated!!

[treehugginmama]

That's why we don't take FCLO. I would love to but the pills are so expensive. It wouldn't be bad if you could just take one or two but if you follow WAP guidelines the bottle would only last 1 week in this house.

[milkdud]

You might try emailing to find out if there is a WAPF leader in your area. They get frequent discounts offered several times a year. The last promo was $21 per bottle. Also, you can buy empty capsules and put the liquid in yourself to cut cost.

The cinnamon blend is not as awful as the others, btw. :)

Also, in the beginning, letting the kids chase it with a spoonful of applesauce or glass of juice, helped it go down easier.