What do you think of this? (13 yo issues)

[mom2boys]

My 13 year old has a habit of trying to be sneaky. He lies, mostly by telling half-truths, and tries to hide his errors, etc. For instance, we recently discovered some very icky things on his ipod browsing history. He tried to cover it up by firstly erasing his history (yeah, right, like I believe he's not used the browser in a week since I last checked??) then when I found the ick he said it wasn't him. When he finally fessed up we had a nice long talk about the ick and the lying, but he just doesn't seem to get it. He also does things like tell me he's done all his schoolwork when really he only did half the problems, or tell me he cleaned his room when all he did was shove it under the bed, I could give examples ad nauseum.

Today's issue that I'm actually asking about (:lol finally, I know...) was that his job was dishes. It's perfectly clear what the expectations are when I say he has dishes for a job because it's spelled out on the chore chart. We do dishes by hand. DH and I both worked tonight. I got a call around 6 asking if he could spend the night at his cousin's house. I said yes, as long as the chores are done. "yeah, I did the dishes already!"
I got home at 8 pm. The sink was overflowing with dirty dishes. I called him and told him I was very disappointed that he didn't do his job, but more disappointed that he lied to me. He tried to tell me that those were dishes that were dirtied after he left, and that he did dishes and put the clean ones away already. So yes, the clean dishes were put away, but it's obvious that he didn't wash any dirty ones because the breakfast dishes were still in the sink! I told him that dishes was his job for the rest of this week. Of course I got a whole lot of "that's not FAAAAIIIIR!!!!!" (he's also the one who would split crumbs if I let him to keep things fair :rolleyes :lol)

So that novel is...:help what do I do with this child??
I've never had a liar before; my oldest tried a few times but was busted each time so just quit, and my 16 year old couldn't tell a lie if his life depended on it :lol

I realize a lot of this is behaviorally appropriate, as well as just his personality. But like my mom says, "that don't make it right!"

[hotnostril]

My son just last week turned 14. We hit a rough patch at 13 too. It lasted for a few months. His chore was dishes, well not even dishes, just emptying the clean dishes from the dishwasher and putting them away! The boy just couldn't do it. I remained diligent and would consistently go get him to finish or put the thing away where they actually belonged every single time. Every time I would explain how fast it would be done and over if he just did it right. But it just went on and on...So after :scratch scratching my head and thinking it over. I explained that I knew he hated doing it and would rather do something else but before we could sit down and work out another chore he needed to do them right for 1 week. It worked....he picked cat litter and dog poop scooping cause it's only once a week. YEAH...I hated that job:)

Oh it wasn't just the chore....everything was getting done half way and half wrong. This is a child that was perfectly capable and meticulous about his responsibilities. I blame it on puberty and testosterone.

He also lost his iphone for inappropriate usage. I had it locked in the safe for almost 6 months. He got it back a few months ago minus the full data package and a program that locks it at set times ( except for 911, me & his dad) When he was given the phone he was told to never do anything with it he wouldn't be comfortable sharing with his grandmother. He was none too happy to have to share it with his Nana.

I have found that talking to and explaining things completely and logically to the conclusions has helped tremendously and calmly making him do it again until it's right.

Mine never lied when asked, but he was being sneaky. I think it's over now, I hope.

[Psyche]

I would have gone to pick him up and brought him home. And it sounds like he needs someone to tell him if things are done or not. You can't trust his words right now.

[mom2boys]

So he called me and asked if he could stay another night. I said yes. :duck I should have made him come home. I think I want some time to think about this; you're right I can't trust him, so how do I get through to him that trust is earned? (I know...by not letting him stay at his cousins for starters.:blush) We have taken away the phone, the ipod, and we randomly check his texts and browsing history. (I do that will all my boys that have phones and ipods) He's always been a very private kid; he's the only one in our whole family that shuts the bathroom door. :lol and he has since he was potty trained.

typing all this out, it seems like I want more big picture help: how do we stop the lying and sneakiness?

[bolt.]

My 13 year old has a habit of trying to be sneaky. He lies, mostly by telling half-truths, and tries to hide his errors, etc. For instance, we recently discovered some very icky things on his ipod browsing history. He tried to cover it up by firstly erasing his history (yeah, right, like I believe he's not used the browser in a week since I last checked??) then when I found the ick he said it wasn't him. When he finally fessed up we had a nice long talk about the ick and the lying, but he just doesn't seem to get it.
He needs more sexual education. I suggest you choose a TV show where sex happens at least occasionally, and watch it together as an educational thing. That should help him to begin to understand what sexuality is, how it works, when it works well, and when it doesn't, and what is 'ick' and why. This will probably take 6 months to a year before he shows signs of 'getting it'.

In the meantime, the browser on his personal electronics should not work. It's a 'tool' that has shown it's dangerous side for your son at this age... sort of like a toddler and a steak knife. A young teen and unfiltered internet is something that could hurt him.

He also does things like tell me he's done all his schoolwork when really he only did half the problems, or tell me he cleaned his room when all he did was shove it under the bed, I could give examples ad nauseum.
Next suggestion: stop asking questions. Simply check, and then say, "I checked XYZ and I saw ABC, and so I've decided LMNOP."

These conversations are becoming unnecessary (because no solid data is gained by asking) and they are ingraining the habit of lying. You can begin to get him out of the habit by temporarily giving him no opportunities to lie -- by not asking any questions that would prompt it.

Today's issue that I'm actually asking about (:lol finally, I know...) was that his job was dishes. It's perfectly clear what the expectations are when I say he has dishes for a job because it's spelled out on the chore chart. We do dishes by hand. DH and I both worked tonight. I got a call around 6 asking if he could spend the night at his cousin's house. I said yes, as long as the chores are done. "yeah, I did the dishes already!"

I got home at 8 pm. The sink was overflowing with dirty dishes.
This is when you get in the car and go pick him up -- without warning.

Him: Why are you here?
You: To pick you up. {totally normal tone}
Him: Why???
You: Because there are dishes in my sink. {as if stating the obvious}
Him: <<Insert attempted lie.>>
You: I don't believe you. Come to the car.

This is a concrete consequence that makes him dealing with the situation mandatory, but leaves him dealing with your feelings out of the picture. It sends the message, "This doesn't work. My choice ruined my evening." -- rather than the message, "My mom is mad at me."

I called him and told him I was very disappointed that he didn't do his job, but more disappointed that he lied to me. He tried to tell me that those were dishes that were dirtied after he left, and that he did dishes and put the clean ones away already. So yes, the clean dishes were put away, but it's obvious that he didn't wash any dirty ones because the breakfast dishes were still in the sink!
This exchange of opinions just extended the sense of having an unpleasant conversation. It's better to keep it deadpan and say, like a broken record, "I don't believe you. It's time to LMNOP." (The consequence of lying is to be not believed, to not be able to change the situation by your words, and to have your statements ignored as if they were completely valueless.)

I told him that dishes was his job for the rest of this week. Of course I got a whole lot of "that's not FAAAAIIIIR!!!!!" (he's also the one who would split crumbs if I let him to keep things fair :rolleyes :lol)
You: "No, it's not fair. It's a consequence of the mistake you made by leaving the house without doing the dishes. That's the way this stuff works."

At other times, bring up things like integrity, duty and honour -- tying them occasionally to examples of lying (as well as legitimately studying everything about them). Talk about current events and politics and business contracts and labour policies in factories -- these are all examples of truth in action. Talk about times when true honour / godliness comes above prosaic truth telling, and talk about times when people might think they can handle a situation more easily by not telling the truth. Study the Bible's prophetic books and see God as a God of truth, power and righteousness. Focus in on passages where He expects His people to repent and live in a way that reflects His righteousness... truth telling is occasionally mentioned.

Basically you try to shape his worldview in such a way that he respects people who respect the truth in their relationships -- then, if he wants to respect himself, he will begin to lie less often as he learns through those experiences. (This will probably take longer than 6 months to a year. It's a long term project.)

ou're right I can't trust him, so how do I get through to him that trust is earned?
You tell him that you don't believe him (in individual situations ONLY -- not that you "don't trust him" overall, as if it was a permanent character flaw... that would only ingrain it deeper) and you tell him in what ways your not believing him effects his life.

You: Because I don't believe you have brushed the dog, I have decided you may not go out tonight.
Him: But I did brush the dog!!! {this may or may not be true}
You: I hear you, but I simply am not believing it. I made my decision because of what I believe, not because of what you said.
Him: This isn't fair! How can I convince you I'm telling the truth?
You: I don't know. What would you like to try?

---

You: I was thinking about doing XYZ as a family, but then I thought that I wouldn't be able to have confidence that you wouldn't ABC, so that's why we're not doing XYZ.
Him: NOOOOOOOO!!!
You: I hope I will be able to have confidence in your choices soon, so I don't have to make plans while thinking you might sneak or make a mistake.
Him: When?
You: Well, let's make a plan.

[mom2boys]

That's fantastic advice. :ty I never thought about how asking was an opportunity to lie. But you're totally correct. We do need to work more in general in our family with concentrated bible study on character. :think lots for me to mull over and process. Thank you!