What if someone close to us thinks our parenting doesn't work?

[RainbowMummy]

Sorry, this will be a ramble. It's the sort of thing that I imagine if I had a Christian gentle parenting friend irl, we'd mull over it together over a few months but I'm trying to fit it in one post. :lol

It's started because my brother said that he & his girlfriend do not believe our (non-smacking) way of parenting works. He is younger than me & has no kids but we are very close. I think his comment has partly made me feel that I have to prove our parenting works & it's also highlighted times where I feel helpless to prove that what our children are doing is ok with us. or is it ok?

Just as an example; often when my brother & his girlfriend are here, our kids are excited. My first child particularly is a talker so they talk so much that it is basically impossible for us adults to talk. This happens pretty much every time I have adults over really unless they come with children of their own who play with my kids.
Question number 1: What should be happening here? Do others get an adult conversation? should visiting adults expect to sit down in my lounge chairs & chat with me? I never really do that until adults come. It seems like the kids & I just live our life out happily; playing, housework, craft, jobs etc & then when adults come to visit my kids are suddenly expected to be quiet while adults talk. What are others lives like over this issue??

Also, the other night I said to DD1 'you've had a chance to talk to (your uncle). I need a chance to talk to him now, you can go & play or sit with us & listen'. She responded by tickling her kid brother with a feather until he was frustrated & crying & then kept dancing so close to my brother & his gf that she was standing on their feet. I said something along the lines of us loving her & wanting to send time with her but we needed to be able to talk too & she could snuggle up on my lap & listen. She didn't stop so I told her she needed to go & lie in bed for a bit. She started whining & saying she didn't want to. My brother (trying to back me up) said to her 'come on do what your mum says.' I know this is the sort of situation that my brother feels is not working. He would feel that if a child is given a direct order that they need to obey. He'd believe that the parent should listen to a childs thoughts & feelings too but if the parents decision still remained then the child would need to obey.

I guess I believe that too but the above scenario confuses me. "you need to get in the car so we can go home' is easy but I'm not finding what's happening above easy to work out.
Should I not have adults over? If they are over should I ditch the sit in the lounge & chat idea & sit them on the floor & play blocks? Should my children learn to play near me while I talk?
What if, as is inevitable, my children do refuse to do what I have said while people are over? What do I do???

[Mommainrwanda]

First, I know that you probably know this, but it's always good to remember: you don't have to "prove" that GBD "works." Kids will always exhibit childish behavior and no parenting method can ever solve that. :no

Smacking your daughter didn't/won't keep her from EVER whining. It might stop the behavior in the moment, but it doesn't take into account age appropriate behavior, HALT (Is she Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired?) or anything else that may be happening behind the scenes.

GBD is about modeling appropriate behavior/responses and helping your children to accomplish those behaviors on their own. :yes If your daughter is having a difficult time walking to her room and lying down then I suggest you help you do that. As you transition away from smacking it is especially important that you help them and back up your requests with action.

I think that it is perfectly acceptable to tell your children, "It is my turn to talk now. You can sit next to me if you'd like to stay here, but you need to be quiet." Or find an activity that will keep your children occupied while you visit.

[RainbowMummy]

If your daughter is having a difficult time walking to her room and lying down then I suggest you help you do that. As you transition away from smacking it is especially important that you help them and back up your requests with action.


Thank you for that! Thank you for all of it :D but the above. Yes! Lightbulb moment :D

[ozmummy]

And as this seems to be an ongoing issue, it is worth talking about and practicing scenarios.

When we have visitors there will be a time for you to talk to them, and then a time for me to talk. When it is my turn you can sit still and listen or xxxx. Choosing to interrupt when it is not your turn means choosing to be in your room.

For xxxx come up with mutually agreeable activities, maybe some special thing that only comes out sometimes.

[Teacher Mom]

the first thing I need to share with you is how much I got this same thing from family and friends.

And then years later have received the most wonderful compliments from thos same family members and friends telling me how well behaved my kids have grown to be.

No spanking. Discipline yes. Spanking no.

My kids do/did the same thing. They are people and want to be around your brother too!!! What you did sounded fine. It is especially hard since they would not have cousins to play with, but keep working at it. Let them visit too and then if you need time alone with your brother, tell the kids it's time to play in their own rooms now. Explain it to them. Talk to them.

Include them and you won't go wrong.

But most importantly, know that it works!

Love on those little ones. It will seem like a blink of the eye before they are teenagers!!!

[rjy9343]

For many people, no spanking means no discipline. My brother told me to hit his son since that is the only way he will learn. Since I was childless and not really up on how to take care of children, I did spank him a few times when it was safety issue. I simply did not know better and thought that was what you had to do . When he found out that I was not going to spank, the first thing he asked was if he could spank her. :doh(Because I effectively took away the only tool he had, my response was gentle but negative). The very idea that you can have a child that is not a wild beast without spanking is just to foreign of an idea to grasp to some people. I doubt very much that this will be the last time you post on this subject. So don't feel that you need to make it one big post and never revisit it.

[zak]

:hug It's hard to hear someone close criticize our choices. :yes :(

AFA having company over. We've always been ones to throw parties and have lots of people come over (also hosting LLL meetings and such). My children love speaking with adults and sharing what's going on in their lives. :heart I try to temper their "control" (hate that word) of the conversation tho. I can usually read people pretty well and I can tell when they've had enough :shifty . My kids are pretty easy, laid-back, compliant (in general, but more so around company). So personality will play into this as well. I usually keep them close to me (playing on the floor or engaged in some quiet activity) or let them go play upstairs (no one but OUR children can go upstairs tho, I have a big rule about that) quietly. They usually choose to stick close (they may run upstairs for a toy or activity and then come back down). If they interrupt my conversation I usually address it right then, "I was speaking to X, you may put your hand on my lap to let me know you need my attention and I'll be right with you. :heart ". It's worked super well so far.

We had a couple over the other night (we do entertain less now than we did when DS1 was the only child, so maybe this is why this evening seemed "off") and they don't have children. We spent the evening at the dinner table (after we ate) with a Lego bucket and the boys were super excited to show/share their Legos with the Husband. :lol The wife and I were able to chat back and forth and it was a nice evening. I felt like the kids were dominating things, but the wife was super quiet and I'm not a super chatty-Kathy myself, so it was kind of nice to have them as entertainment. :shifty :lol IF it had been anyone else I would have moved our conversation to the living room and asked the boys to build quietly (which I'm pretty sure would have been a non-issue). :yes

Talk with DD before Uncle's next visit. Let her know what you expect of her. Help her meet those expectations. A little "prep" talk can often times help more than we realize. :) Especially when there is a change from what's been the norm. :tu

[6boysmom]

One idea that works for me when I have a friend or someone coming over to visit me is to get something really fun out. I have a few things such as a big playdoh bin or watercolors that I get out for my kids to play with and because it comes out only for special times they keep pretty occupied.:)

[ArmsOfLove]

first, her opinion doesn't have to mean anything :shrug3 She's entitled to it, you're entitled to ignore it ;) She is seeing a microcosm of your lives and it's when their beloved uncle is there :heart

second, I would work with them on their courtesy skills and practice what is okay around company, etc. And then I would remind them in the moment and remove them if necessary. I believe strong good social skills are vital but I'm one to have lots of guests and expect my children to respond appropriately. When you have less guests over it's harder to reinforce these things, but you can prepare for the company and remind of the rules before they get there :yes

[MarynMunchkins]

What if you think his opinion is stupid because he doesn't have kids? :shifty

Everyone has opinions. Just decide which ones matter enough to worry about. :hug

[rjy9343]

What if you think his opinion is stupid because he doesn't have kids? :shifty
I thought that, but did not have to courage to post it.

[Teacher Mom]

and as I was driving this morning, I thought "I forgot to put in my post to that mama that what does her brother know anyway. He doesn't even have kids yet."

Yep. Take his advice with a grain of salt.

Listen to people with actual experience.

Again. Spanking no. Discipline yes.

The person I was before children and after children is very different indeed.

[homesteadmama]

The person I was before children and after children is very different indeed.

Seriously. I was the *perfect* parent before I had kids. :lol

[RainbowMummy]

Thank you everyone! You've given me some laughs :lol & some really great tips!

We have a lot of people over but almost all of them are AP'ers & have little kids so we aren't really trying to have any deep & meaningful conversations :lol It's when my parents or brother or a few older people from church come over that I have these 'issues'. I have some new things to try now though & DH is excited too. Oh, the having extra fun, new toys doesn't work for my DD1. There is NOTHING more exciting for her than a new person to talk at. :lol

[natural_mama]

Its so nice to read that other parents have this issue then read 'gentle' suggestions!!! My kids use to go nutty when particular adults came around and I've ended up in tears before the visit is over trying to figure out how to get them to give the adults abit of quiet instead of loud attention grabbing noises without resorting to spanking and/or yelling :( I did finally work out that running them through what was acceptable BEFORE anyone arrived worked quite well i.e 'OK boys you can say hi, give a hug, tell our visitor about some things that have happened - what thngs would you like to share?, and ask if they'd like a drink. You don't need to jump, squeal or do silly play to get attention, our visitor is your friend and likes to talk to you normally. Once we've made drinks then you can sit with us quietly or you can play in this part of the room with your toys. If you want to say something then come and say excuse me and we'll be very glad to listen to what you want to share.' I find that assuring them, especially Mr 4, that our visitor likes them and enjoys their company when they're just being themselves helps keep things calm. I also warn them that if they become rowdy and attention-grabbing them I will ask them to go out til they can be quiet again and that means that I can just say 'remember what mama said about where you need to go if you want to be noisy and disturb us?' and they settle straight down again. I make sure I encourage them and smile at them alot while we're chatting too so they know I'm still available to them. Is that gentle/firm enough or could I tweak it???

As for people close to us who don't think our parenting works... well that was practically both sides of the family. My ILs have actually come around now after seeing how respectful and polite the boys are compared to the other children in the family but my family is still an issue as they're very pro-spanking. Its really hard coz when my mum came to stay when I was super-sick with this pregnancy we said we weren't smacking and she agreed but when she was in charge of the boys while DH was at work and I was in bed I'd hear her smacking them anyway then if I managed to stagger out she'd say the boys were fine and nobody had been corrected :scratch what do you do then???

[Zooey]

For many people, no spanking means no discipline. My brother told me to hit his son since that is the only way he will learn. Since I was childless and not really up on how to take care of children, I did spank him a few times when it was safety issue. I simply did not know better and thought that was what you had to do . When he found out that I was not going to spank, the first thing he asked was if he could spank her. :doh(Because I effectively took away the only tool he had, my response was gentle but negative). The very idea that you can have a child that is not a wild beast without spanking is just to foreign of an idea to grasp to some people. I doubt very much that this will be the last time you post on this subject. So don't feel that you need to make it one big post and never revisit it. Great post!!
I want to highlight the part that jumped out for me:

For many people, no spanking means no discipline.

You don't have to defend anything. But it may help to remind anyone who criticizes that "Just because we don't hit, doesn't mean that we don't discipline".
And then, :beandip. ("Was that a Golden-Throated Asian Pterodactyl that just flew by? See what you think!!". "Have you noticed how much colder the water is that comes in the tub faucet than from the kitchen sink? What could cause that?" Etc, etc, etc. Except it helps if your ways of changing the conversation are:shifty slightly:shifty more believable than :dohmine:bag).

[rjy9343]

And then, :beandip. ("Was that a Golden-Throated Asian Pterodactyl that just flew by? See what you think!!". "Have you noticed how much colder the water is that comes in the tub faucet than from the kitchen sink? What could cause that?" Etc, etc, etc. Except it helps if your ways of changing the conversation are:shifty slightly:shifty more believable than :dohmine:bag).
My fall back bean dip is to talk about bean dip.:shifty

[Kiara.I]

Its really hard coz when my mum came to stay when I was super-sick with this pregnancy we said we weren't smacking and she agreed but when she was in charge of the boys while DH was at work and I was in bed I'd hear her smacking them anyway then if I managed to stagger out she'd say the boys were fine and nobody had been corrected :scratch what do you do then???

Then you've learned that your mother cannot be trusted. You CANNOT leave the boys in her care unwatched.

Find different babysitters.

Stay on the couch out with them.

Something.

But what you have learned is that your mum WILL disregard your instructions and that she WILL do what she thinks is "best" regardless. So, you cannot trust her. :hugheart Sorry. That's not a nice place to be in, with family. :bheart

[allisonintx]

I have found tha it really helps to remove the child who is using poor manners rather than correcting them in the place they seem to be 'stuck'

When they are using their bodies and voices inappropriately, most of the time a verbal instruction isn't going to be enough. Taking the child out of the room to discipline them does a few things. 1. Most importantly, it gives the child a 'reset' so that they can hear your instructions outside of their excitement about the company. 2. it models gentle discipline as 'actual discipline' (discipleship) that is recognizable. I know that many people don't think that this is important, but it really is if we want to be evangelical about grace based discipline/living. 3. If the company are people you don't want input from regarding discipline, taking the child out of the room indicates to them that you don't need their help and that it's none of their business. Whatever they assume about what you're doing in the other room is entirely up to them.

[Teacher Mom]

Its really hard coz when my mum came to stay when I was super-sick with this pregnancy we said we weren't smacking and she agreed but when she was in charge of the boys while DH was at work and I was in bed I'd hear her smacking them anyway then if I managed to stagger out she'd say the boys were fine and nobody had been corrected :scratch what do you do then???

If I HEARD someone smacking my kids, I would be screaming my head of at THEM.

And they would never watch my children again.

Boundaries.

People need to respect YOUR parenting decisions for YOUR kids. Period.

[Sarusabeth]

All of this is such great advice! I just wanted to add something that has really helped my people-loving children learn how to interact with my adult friends without stepping on their toes (figuratively and literally!) My oldest is a talker, my second is an in-your-face (on your feet, in your lap) little guy. We've taught them that, if the adults are talking, they are free to participate in the conversation as long as they don't interrupt and change the subject. If they do have something they'd rather talk about, they need only to put a hand on our knee or arm to get our attention. As soon as it's appropriate, we will turn to them and invite them to share with us. If they have something urgent to say (someone is hurt, someone is about to get hurt, etc) they are of course always allowed to interrupt with that, though we do encourage them to say "Excuse me" first. To help my second learn boundaries and keep his excitement from becoming painful :lol he is learning "Bubble Boundaries!" We have him put his arms out and spin in a circle to see where his "bubble" should be, and he has to stay that far away from others to keep his "bubble" from popping. At 4, 3, and not-quite-two, they are still learning of course, but I have noticed a considerable difference in the instances of interrupting and invading our guests' personal space.

Now, that being said, I certainly agree that you cannot expect more out of your kids just because someone else doesn't agree with your parenting choices. :shrug3 I know how tough it is, though. I don't even LIKE my corporal-punishing, verbally degrading, high-expectation holding sister-in-law, but when we're together, I sometimes get more irritated at my children for normal behaviors than I typically would, or will find myself reacting in a different way than usual. I'll get a little disappointed if the kids are in particularly rare form. I want her to see how much better my methods are than hers! :giggle Everyone wants to be seen as a "good" parent, but it's important to remember that no matter what your choices are, there will always be someone who disagrees. And unless you go out of your way to eliminate all nay-sayers from your life, some of those people will probably be loved ones. But the more confident you become in your decisions, the more effective they will become, and the more your family or friends will begin to at least agree to disagree, instead of pushing you to rethink your choices.

[bolt.]

Whether something "works" is about what you are trying to do with it... what things you think are worth working towards, how fast you think they can be achieved, and what methods you choose to employ and how you allocate your personal 'resources' (time, energy).

I doubt your child-free brother has any idea what's age appropriate, nor has he ever tried to modify the behaviour of a small child. He has no idea what progress is possible, and what is unrealistic. Even if he has defined a goal (behaviour modification) he still has no idea what he's doing.

All he's saying is that he finds (your) children to be unpleasant company, and he thinks there are ways to change them into less bothersome little creatures... which he seems to think he'd appreciate... if you happened to have unlimited time, energy and wisdom to accomplish that.

Silly man!

However,
Question number 1: What should be happening here? Do others get an adult conversation? should visiting adults expect to sit down in my lounge chairs & chat with me?
Yes, people who visit you should expect to be able to converse with you. Why else would they come? Depending on their age, there must be some way to either (a) teach age appropriate manners, or (b) distract the children -- in order to provide for your guests something like a 5-minutes for guests / 2-minutes for kids ration of interruptions.

You don't need to hit kids to teach manners... but it does take more time and effort to be teaching them to young children in anticipation of events like 'having guests' or 'the adults are chatting'. It sounds like there's a skill you could be working on building up.

She responded by tickling her kid brother with a feather until he was frustrated & crying & then kept dancing so close to my brother & his gf that she was standing on their feet.
I do not tolerate disrespect for other people's bodies in my house. I would have intervened, firmly taken the feather away and had her tell me the rules about respecting other people's bodies. Then I'd provide a desirable distracting thing for the kids to do (in order to facilitate my return to adult conversation). The same thing with 'crowding' people and intentionally stepping on them. These are not things that are OK with me.

I would have been firm about, "You can sit politely, or you can leave the room." -- Helping her leave the room if she decided not to sit politely. I don't cajole my kids about what I've told them to do. I just tell them what I'm going to do if they don't follow my instructions (usually that I'm going to help them do it)... then I do that.

[Heather Micaela]

Seriously. I was the *perfect* parent before I had kids. :lol
:yes
And my brother was a lot more critical of my parenting till he had his own. Now he only comments on the oldest - the ones he has no relatable experience with - but less often

[Maggirayne]

So what? They don't have kids and clearly do not understand relationship is more important. hey do not understand that the end goal of parenting is kids who are healthy emotionally and capable of forming healthy attachments. Kids will act like kids. Yes, it's not always appropriate, but it is typical. Of course he's a neat, exciting person and they want to connect with him and be included. Life with kids is NOT like life without kids. :no

You can simply and firmly and politely state, "Our discipline is not up for discussion." If they have genuinely wanting to learn questions you can carefully answer them, but most of the time it's best to simply refrain from discussing your choices. Really. It took me a loooong time to learn this, but finally I understood it is wise to bean-dip (http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=392705). :shifty

Beandip (http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=115197) is an excellent thread.

Its so nice to read that other parents have this issue then read 'gentle' suggestions!!! My kids use to go nutty when particular adults came around and I've ended up in tears before the visit is over trying to figure out how to get them to give the adults abit of quiet instead of loud attention grabbing noises without resorting to spanking and/or yelling :( I did finally work out that running them through what was acceptable BEFORE anyone arrived worked quite well i.e 'OK boys you can say hi, give a hug, tell our visitor about some things that have happened - what thngs would you like to share?, and ask if they'd like a drink. You don't need to jump, squeal or do silly play to get attention, our visitor is your friend and likes to talk to you normally. Once we've made drinks then you can sit with us quietly or you can play in this part of the room with your toys. If you want to say something then come and say excuse me and we'll be very glad to listen to what you want to share.' I find that assuring them, especially Mr 4, that our visitor likes them and enjoys their company when they're just being themselves helps keep things calm. I also warn them that if they become rowdy and attention-grabbing them I will ask them to go out til they can be quiet again and that means that I can just say 'remember what mama said about where you need to go if you want to be noisy and disturb us?' and they settle straight down again. I make sure I encourage them and smile at them alot while we're chatting too so they know I'm still available to them. Is that gentle/firm enough or could I tweak it???
As long as your expectations for them are age-appropriate and realistic, yes, you are being gentle. You are stating clearly to them what you expect and guiding them in appropriate ways to interact with guests. :yes
However it would unrealistic to expect to sit quietly and still for very long. That's why it is good to plan ahead and provide a fun activity to occupy them.

As for people close to us who don't think our parenting works... well that was practically both sides of the family. My ILs have actually come around now after seeing how respectful and polite the boys are compared to the other children in the family but my family is still an issue as they're very pro-spanking. Its really hard coz when my mum came to stay when I was super-sick with this pregnancy we said we weren't smacking and she agreed but when she was in charge of the boys while DH was at work and I was in bed I'd hear her smacking them anyway then if I managed to stagger out she'd say the boys were fine and nobody had been corrected :scratch what do you do then???
She can't be trusted. Period. I will never leave my children with anyone who can't be trusted to respect MY directions.
She needs more tools for discipline.