How do you deal with almost 7 year old back talk?

[shaslove]

Lina has been backtalking a lot, and being really rude and disrespectful. She turns 7 in a month.

I did not handle it well today (put her to bed early and gave her dinner in her room). I would like some ideas on how to handle it better.

[luvinmama]

:hugheart I'm sorry things are rough right now. I want to bookmark this and come back to it.

[dulce de leche]

:hug. I was a backtalker. It was so important to me to feel heard and understood that even when I knew I would get in trouble I kept on. I think there are actually many positives in backtalk. However, rudeness and disrespect are not OK. :no. I would work in helping her find courteous ways to express herself. "Try again politely if you want my attention.". She might need help with scripts, too. Sometimes at six things come out more roughly than the speaker intends (sometimes at 35 that happens, too :shifty).

[swimming with sharks]

Have you read the 6 yr old stickie? :think:shifty We do a lot of try again...taking a break in our room until she's calm enough to not scream at me :dohSometimes it's "I understand you don't like what I've said/want you to do. I didn't ask for your opinion,
I told you that is what is going to happen" and then I disengage. Some days easier said than done. :hugheart:pray4

btw did you see the thread entitled I'm loving 7? :jump2 :pray4:bag

[NewCovenantMama]

It was so important to me to feel heard and understood that even when I knew I would get in trouble I kept on. I think there are actually many positives in backtalk. However, rudeness and disrespect are not OK. :no. I would work in helping her find courteous ways to express herself. "Try again politely if you want my attention.". She might need help with scripts, too. Sometimes at six things come out more roughly than the speaker intends (sometimes at 35 that happens, too :shifty).

This. :yes

[allisonintx]

"Woah there...I think you might have meant, 'Most precious mother of mine, whom I adore above all others, I would prefer to brush my teeth in 15 minutes after I've finished this section of my game.' Right?"

I script the heck out of my kids at that age. It breaks the tension, and is better for everyone involved that I don't take it personally when they act their age.

[Amber]

"Woah there...I think you might have meant, 'Most precious mother of mine, whom I adore above all others, I would prefer to brush my teeth in 15 minutes after I've finished this section of my game.' Right?"

I script the heck out of my kids at that age. It breaks the tension, and is better for everyone involved that I don't take it personally when they act their age.
:yes Scripting has been wonderful for us when dealing with backtalk or stinky tones of voice. And I try to work with them and offer a compromise whenever possible when they are able to the right tone of voice/script.

[dulce de leche]

This is an old post about backtalk that I wrote. I don't really get into solutions much, but it is an explanation of the kind of kid I was and the adult that I grew into because of it. :hug http://dulcefamily.blogspot.com/2011/01/backtalk.html

[shaslove]

:hug. I was a backtalker. It was so important to me to feel heard and understood that even when I knew I would get in trouble I kept on. I think there are actually many positives in backtalk. However, rudeness and disrespect are not OK. :no. I would work in helping her find courteous ways to express herself. "Try again politely if you want my attention.". She might need help with scripts, too. Sometimes at six things come out more roughly than the speaker intends (sometimes at 35 that happens, too :shifty).

Thank you. I understand that postives are needed, but it is. contstant. and it drives me batty. It turns into rude and mean behavior. I will say try again, but a lot of the time she will say something rude and then run away.

Have you read the 6 yr old stickie? :think:shifty We do a lot of try again...taking a break in our room until she's calm enough to not scream at me :dohSometimes it's "I understand you don't like what I've said/want you to do. I didn't ask for your opinion,
I told you that is what is going to happen" and then I disengage. Some days easier said than done. :hugheart:pray4

btw did you see the thread entitled I'm loving 7? :jump2 :pray4:bag

I do that exact sentance, and she still wants to argue. I try to rescript. I just don't do as well when I have been sick for a week :bag

"Woah there...I think you might have meant, 'Most precious mother of mine, whom I adore above all others, I would prefer to brush my teeth in 15 minutes after I've finished this section of my game.' Right?"

I script the heck out of my kids at that age. It breaks the tension, and is better for everyone involved that I don't take it personally when they act their age.

Is it age appropriate then? It is so frustrating. My mom kept pointing it out this weekend, so I put her in time out a few times and I sort of regret it. :bag

:ty

[dulce de leche]

:hug It is extremely aggravating, and so much harder when you have a critical audience. I do think that six is a prime age for backtalk. But if there is a true intent to hurt behind her words (not just careless wording), then I would focus on dealing with the root of that. Does she need more connection? Healthier ways to express hurt, anger, frustration, loneliness, etc?

[allisonintx]

yea, seven is a huge "Justice" age, which is why scripting and modeling is more effective than admonishment as a strategy.

Here's my Seven Year Old (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=406716)thread.

[shaslove]

:hug It is extremely aggravating, and so much harder when you have a critical audience. I do think that six is a prime age for backtalk. But if there is a true intent to hurt behind her words (not just careless wording), then I would focus on dealing with the root of that. Does she need more connection? Healthier ways to express hurt, anger, frustration, loneliness, etc?

I think this might be the case. She gets really upset after we leave a visit with her brothers and it escalates (they live with my other full siblings in another state). The probelm is that this will not change-she will always have to say goodbye and I am not sure how to fix it.

yea, seven is a huge "Justice" age, which is why scripting and modeling is more effective than admonishment as a strategy.

Here's my Seven Year Old (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=406716)thread.

:ty reading now.

[Mama Rophe]

I have been dealing with this with my oldest. It's so hard sometimes. I'm off to read thhat thread.

[luvinmama]

I think getting at the "root" of this behavior might be in everyone's best interest. I love the scripting ideas, :yes and think they are great tools to use--but I wonder if her "issues" (I mean that in a loving way :heart) are coming out a bit more intensely these days? You have mentioned from our IRL times together about some of her past and if that were me, I'd be angry too and it'd come out in these sassy ways. :shrug3

I think you guys are fabulous. :heart I hope this comes out the right way. :hug2

[swimming with sharks]

:heart

[Titus2Momof4]

Is it age appropriate then? It is so frustrating. My mom kept pointing it out this weekend, so I put her in time out a few times and I sort of regret it.
If you don't use t/o at home, she probably had no idea what you were doing or what was going on. :hug2

To answer the question: :yes it is completely age appropriate.

It might help to define what you mean by "backtalk" though. As someone else said, 7 (and even 6 IME) is an age of "needing to be heard." If they are just saying something in response to what you've said, that is not what I'd consider backtalk. It's the attitude behind it that makes it "backtalk," to me.

Also, make sure she isn't just reflecting the way you're talking to her. :shifty You can't speak rudely to her and then get upset when she does the same back to you (pointing fingers at myself here too.... :bag )

I like Allison's suggestion of scripting...because we have found it to be VERY useful. Sometimes, they just don't know what TO say, though they want to say something. Give her the things TO say and she will learn. :heart

[shaslove]

I have been dealing with this with my oldest. It's so hard sometimes. I'm off to read thhat thread.

:hug

I think getting at the "root" of this behavior might be in everyone's best interest. I love the scripting ideas, :yes and think they are great tools to use--but I wonder if her "issues" (I mean that in a loving way :heart) are coming out a bit more intensely these days? You have mentioned from our IRL times together about some of her past and if that were me, I'd be angry too and it'd come out in these sassy ways. :shrug3

I think you guys are fabulous. :heart I hope this comes out the right way. :hug2

First, yes, it did :hug

:sigh I know you are right. I think its more than the normal 7, I just have a hard time being the one to be the adult when I just want to :hunh:snooty:hissyfit

Praise God for a new day!

If you don't use t/o at home, she probably had no idea what you were doing or what was going on. :hug2

To answer the question: :yes it is completely age appropriate.

It might help to define what you mean by "backtalk" though. As someone else said, 7 (and even 6 IME) is an age of "needing to be heard." If they are just saying something in response to what you've said, that is not what I'd consider backtalk. It's the attitude behind it that makes it "backtalk," to me.

Also, make sure she isn't just reflecting the way you're talking to her. :shifty You can't speak rudely to her and then get upset when she does the same back to you (pointing fingers at myself here too.... :bag )

I like Allison's suggestion of scripting...because we have found it to be VERY useful. Sometimes, they just don't know what TO say, though they want to say something. Give her the things TO say and she will learn. :heart

I am having a hard time thinking of an example of the backtalk at the moment. I want to think about this and come back. My brain is a little foggy.

Mostly its the disrespect-she said to me on Friday, at Grandmas, when I was upset because she misplaced her shoes, and I was looking for them, in a snide voice "Someone got up too early to go shopping and is grouchy," and I said back to her "It is not your place to say if Mommy got up too early, or is grouchy, that is disrespectful." I made her take a break from me, because I did not like her comment, and then she had to apologize. That is one example of the disrespect/rudeness.

[Happygrl]

An idea I have found useful at various times is something from Say Goodbye to Whining, Crying & No-Good Attitudes in You & Your Children....Obey (comply, if you prefer) first, then we'll talk. My daughter has an intense need to be heard. If she knows she WILL have such a chance, she (generally) scurries along quickly to do whatever I ask so she can hurry back to tell me her list of complaints. :giggle That brief break works well for both of us--I'm more open to listening AND she rarely, if ever, talks with any kind of sass because she isn't on the "defensive", so to speak.

[shaslove]

An idea I have found useful at various times is something from Say Goodbye to Whining, Crying & No-Good Attitudes in You & Your Children....Obey (comply, if you prefer) first, then we'll talk. My daughter has an intense need to be heard. If she knows she WILL have such a chance, she (generally) scurries along quickly to do whatever I ask so she can hurry back to tell me her list of complaints. :giggle That brief break works well for both of us--I'm more open to listening AND she rarely, if ever, talks with any kind of sass because she isn't on the "defensive", so to speak.

Oh thats a great idea. :ty

[luvinmama]

:hug

[Titus2Momof4]

"Someone got up too early to go shopping and is grouchy," and I said back to her "It is not your place to say if Mommy got up too early, or is grouchy, that is disrespectful." I made her take a break from me, because I did not like her comment, and then she had to apologize. That is one example of the disrespect/rudeness.

Yes, that was a bit snarky (what your dd said). Of course, it would have been snarky and rude coming from *anyone*--not just her. :yes My first thought is (and please don't be upset with me for asking this :heart), where has she heard that type of talk? Do you talk to her that way sometimes...maybe?

My second thought was that I think what you said back to her was perfectly fine. It lets her know you heard what she said while also letting her know that the way she spoke to you was inappropriate. :tu

The upside of the exchange is that clearly she's in tune to the fact that people who feel bad act bad. That's wonderful insight for a 7 y/o. :)

In a neutral moment, maybe talk with her about saying things like that. You might find that she'll tell you "Well you say things like that to me" (if it's true) which, of course, will have you going :shifty but it's also humbling. :yes

[allisonintx]

Frankly, I was going to ask "Were you cranky from being up shopping early?" Children often hit the nail on the head, even if it's 'not appropriate' or flat out embarrassing to us.

The other thing here, that no one is taking into account in giving you advice about this is that she was coming off of spending time with her birth siblings, and having the anxieties and stresses of that, which you KNOW are hard on her. You can NOT expect perfect behavior in times like that, and if all you get is a little snark, I think she's doing amazingly well. It can not be stressed enough that her behavior will not be on the same level as a child who has had a consistent parenting experience. Her parenting experience is going to have her checking and double-checking that you still love her, that your boundries are still the same, and that you're still going to be her mama tomorrow.

[shaslove]

Frankly, I was going to ask "Were you cranky from being up shopping early?" Children often hit the nail on the head, even if it's 'not appropriate' or flat out embarrassing to us.

The other thing here, that no one is taking into account in giving you advice about this is that she was coming off of spending time with her birth siblings, and having the anxieties and stresses of that, which you KNOW are hard on her. You can NOT expect perfect behavior in times like that, and if all you get is a little snark, I think she's doing amazingly well. It can not be stressed enough that her behavior will not be on the same level as a child who has had a consistent parenting experience. Her parenting experience is going to have her checking and double-checking that you still love her, that your boundries are still the same, and that you're still going to be her mama tomorrow.

Why, yes, I was a little :bag

I know that. I was mostly using it as an example, but its behavior that is consistently snarky.

We had some good today :thumbsup

I was trying to talk to her in the car about not listening at gymnastics, and she got annoyed and said "I want to be done with this conversation." I said "I am sorry, but that is not something you get to say. We are not done." So she said "I am going to cover my ears, and not listen to you." So she did. I continued to talk about it (this is on the advice of her counselor, who says she can still hear me when she does that) and I also said, "If you cannot uncover your ears, we will need to go straight to bed, instead of storytime, since being disrespectful makes it hard to want to do things for you." She continued to cover her ears, and so she went to bed. She requested her favorite stuffed animal, and she was rude when I returned, so I said "please apologize, otherwise I will not be able to give this to you," and she said in a rude voice "sorry" and so I said "Let mommy model-(in a singsongy voice) "Dear mommy and daddy, I am so sorry for being disrespectuful." She refused, so I walked out. 30 seconds later, she came out of her room and said "I am sorry for being disrespectful" in a very nice voice, and I said "Good job! Here is your stuffed animal," and I gave her a hug and she went to bed.

(I know some of this is more punitive, we are changing a paridgm slowly)

[Titus2Momof4]

I was trying to talk to her in the car about not listening at gymnastics, and she got annoyed and said "I want to be done with this conversation." I said "I am sorry, but that is not something you get to say. We are not done." So she said "I am going to cover my ears, and not listen to you." So she did. I continued to talk about it (this is on the advice of her counselor, who says she can still hear me when she does that) and I also said, "If you cannot uncover your ears, we will need to go straight to bed, instead of storytime, since being disrespectful makes it hard to want to do things for you." She continued to cover her ears, and so she went to bed. She requested her favorite stuffed animal, and she was rude when I returned, so I said "please apologize, otherwise I will not be able to give this to you," and she said in a rude voice "sorry" and so I said "Let mommy model-(in a singsongy voice) "Dear mommy and daddy, I am so sorry for being disrespectuful." She refused, so I walked out. 30 seconds later, she came out of her room and said "I am sorry for being disrespectful" in a very nice voice, and I said "Good job! Here is your stuffed animal," and I gave her a hug and she went to bed.

From what you've written, it sounds like she still ended the conversation about her gymnastics behavior--which is what she was trying to tell you she wanted to do.

She is a person too. Why does she *have* to engage in the conversation about gymnastics right at that moment when you wanted to talk about it? I don't understand why she doesn't "get" to say when she's done talking about something. It sounded to me like she expressed herself VERY well. She stated that she wanted to be done (instead of screaming it or screaming at you or name-calling). You pushed and insisted that the conversation wasn't over and at that point it became a battle of "I'm not listening//Yes you are" back and forth. BTW, the convo about gymnastics still ended...

I don't know your entire situation, but from what Allison posted, it sounds like this is a foster or adoptive situation...? I don't like the idea of withholding her favorite stuffed animal until she says what you want her to say...but if this is a foster/adoptive situation, I *really* cringe at the thought of withholding that comfort item. :(

Also, if this is a foster/adoptive situation, could she perhaps be pushing and pushing just to see how far you will go before moving her onto the next family? :think

[allisonintx]

No, it's not quite like that, Tasha, it's familial.

[shaslove]

Um, I am not sure that I agree that my 6 year old can end a conversation about how she is not listening. She does that on a regular basis-its not like she is going to EVER want to talk about it. I am sorry, but I completly disagree on that. I understand children have feelings too, but she is 6 not 16. Choosing when to listen to a situation is not her choice.

I am not going to get into to her situation, since this is a public thread and I am not comfy doing that.

It feels like you are attacking me, without knowing all the information :scratch

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------

No, it's not quite like that, Tasha, it's familial.

Thank you. I am not showing my siggy right now because we have some possible birthparent issues. :ty

[Titus2Momof4]

I'm sorry you felt like I was attacking you. I wasn't. :hug2 :hug2

I don't see any difference between 6 and 16 in getting to choose when to end a conversation.

[CelticJourney]

I was trying to talk to her in the car about not listening at gymnastics, and she got annoyed and said "I want to be done with this conversation." I said "I am sorry, but that is not something you get to say. We are not done." So she said "I am going to cover my ears, and not listen to you." So she did. I continued to talk about it (this is on the advice of her counselor, who says she can still hear me when she does that) and I also said, "If you cannot uncover your ears, we will need to go straight to bed, instead of storytime, since being disrespectful makes it hard to want to do things for you." She continued to cover her ears, and so she went to bed. She requested her favorite stuffed animal, and she was rude when I returned, so I said "please apologize, otherwise I will not be able to give this to you," and she said in a rude voice "sorry" and so I said "Let mommy model-(in a singsongy voice) "Dear mommy and daddy, I am so sorry for being disrespectuful." She refused, so I walked out. 30 seconds later, she came out of her room and said "I am sorry for being disrespectful" in a very nice voice, and I said "Good job! Here is your stuffed animal," and I gave her a hug and she went to bed.

(I know some of this is more punitive, we are changing a paridgm slowly)My suggestion in a similar situation would be to first wait until you were home and not driving to engage once she said she wasn't going to listen. The conversation still would not be over, but you would be able to focus more on making eye contact and concentrating on her words and body language, etc. Second, while you certainly don't want to encourage rude behavior, also be careful not to send the message that 'happy and polite' are the only acceptable ways to be AND the only ways that I will accept/comfort you. It's all about balance (I know, easier said than done sometimes)

I love Allison's scripting :) Using similar thing make a huge difference in my home - adding a little humor to diffuse a standoff, modeling grace and doing some teaching all at the time is absolutely priceless!

[ArmsOfLove]

Choosing when to listen to a situation is not her choice.She actually does. If she was more sophisticated she would understand that she could pretend to be listening and let her mind wander. She's younger and immature and so she's telling you her true feelings. I would encourage you to start listening to her. :hugheart

Instead of telling her all the things you won't allow and she can't do and engaging in all of these power struggles what might happen if you validated her feelings the next time she tells you something. "I'm not listening." "You don't like what I'm saying. You don't want to talk about this." See what she does--you might be surprised.

I would encourage you to read "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk." I have two 6 year olds right now and if I chose to take them up on every ridiculous and childish thing they said we'd do nothing but argue and fight. It's okay to rise above--to :rolleyes and be the adult and let it go. Not everything has to be engaged over :hug

[shaslove]

I like the validating feeling part. On my phone at the moment, want to cone back to this.

[allisonintx]

Oh yes! Some kids respond well to the "You don't want to hear what I'm saying. or "You're frustrated/angry/insertfeelinghere" while others respond nearly violently to being TOLD how they feel and do better with , "You seem really frustrated" or "Seems like maybe you don't want to hear what I'm saying" or "That's really a bummer, if that happened to me I'd feel ABC"

The difference is subtle, but makes a HUGE difference depending on the child.

[shaslove]

My suggestion in a similar situation would be to first wait until you were home and not driving to engage once she said she wasn't going to listen. The conversation still would not be over, but you would be able to focus more on making eye contact and concentrating on her words and body language, etc. Second, while you certainly don't want to encourage rude behavior, also be careful not to send the message that 'happy and polite' are the only acceptable ways to be AND the only ways that I will accept/comfort you. It's all about balance (I know, easier said than done sometimes)

I love Allison's scripting :) Using similar thing make a huge difference in my home - adding a little humor to diffuse a standoff, modeling grace and doing some teaching all at the time is absolutely priceless!

So I tried to do the opposite-after gynmastics class, she is tired and hungry, and then we have homework, and then we pick up DH. It was in the car on the way home from picking up DH that she said "I don't want to talk about it". In acknowledging her need for HALT, the best time to talk about it was the car :shrug. Lina does that everytime she does not agree with what is happening. The conversation, I felt, was an important one because if she does not listen at gynmastics, she can get hurt, and that almost happened a couple of times-(although that is another story, the teacher keeps changing..ugh :mad).


She actually does. If she was more sophisticated she would understand that she could pretend to be listening and let her mind wander. She's younger and immature and so she's telling you her true feelings. I would encourage you to start listening to her. :hugheart

Instead of telling her all the things you won't allow and she can't do and engaging in all of these power struggles what might happen if you validated her feelings the next time she tells you something. "I'm not listening." "You don't like what I'm saying. You don't want to talk about this." See what she does--you might be surprised.

I would encourage you to read "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk." I have two 6 year olds right now and if I chose to take them up on every ridiculous and childish thing they said we'd do nothing but argue and fight. It's okay to rise above--to :rolleyes and be the adult and let it go. Not everything has to be engaged over :hug

I so agree with the validation-I did try-I understand you are frustrated, but its important to listen to the teacher-but see above for trying to find a time that is best for this.

Oh yes! Some kids respond well to the "You don't want to hear what I'm saying. or "You're frustrated/angry/insertfeelinghere" while others respond nearly violently to being TOLD how they feel and do better with , "You seem really frustrated" or "Seems like maybe you don't want to hear what I'm saying" or "That's really a bummer, if that happened to me I'd feel ABC"

The difference is subtle, but makes a HUGE difference depending on the child.

:ty

Tonight, I tried to validate and listen, when I was putting her to bed and she was refusing, I said "We need to go to sleep otherwise we will be tired and grouchy in the morning," and she said, "So will you," and I said, "That is true. I have to go to bed on time also." Then she repeated it several times while I was getting her milk and remaking her bed. I finally said, "Lina, I have the option of not going to bed and staying up because I am an adult. When you get to be an adult, you can make that choice. Until then, as your mommy, I need to be responsible for keeping you healthy, and that includes sleep. Please lay down, even if you are not tired, and try to sleep." Then I left.

Still not sure that was ok.:sigh

[CelticJourney]

gynmastics class, she is tired and hungry, and then we have homework, and then we pick up DH...the teacher keeps changing.That is a lot going on for a 7yo to handle - is there any way to change that dynamic and set her up for more success:think If she is not listening at her class and is being unsafe, maybe you need to weigh the pros and cons of the activity or maybe even just the timing.

As for bedtime, I've used the playful line 'yes, I need to go to bed too, but I can't sleep until you do, so get to it little one'. :shrug3

[shaslove]

Gymnastics: we are staying through this session, but not after :no

[WanderingJuniper]

Tonight, I tried to validate and listen, when I was putting her to bed and she was refusing, I said "We need to go to sleep otherwise we will be tired and grouchy in the morning," and she said, "So will you," and I said, "That is true. I have to go to bed on time also." Then she repeated it several times while I was getting her milk and remaking her bed. I finally said, "Lina, I have the option of not going to bed and staying up because I am an adult. When you get to be an adult, you can make that choice. Until then, as your mommy, I need to be responsible for keeping you healthy, and that includes sleep. Please lay down, even if you are not tired, and try to sleep." Then I left.

Still not sure that was ok.:sigh:hug I think you did just fine. I try to point out that while I am a grown up I also have consequences for the decisions I make too. Just because I can do something doesn't make it the right decision.

Allison hit the way we script around here spot on. It slightly ott in tone with a silliness that helps me not get emotionally engaged and lets the kids know I'm not mad that they have something to say but that they need to try again with a kinder tone etc. My almost 10 year old rolls her eyes at this but then after I leave the room she busts out laughing. My 7 year old gives it right back to me all over the top and dripping with phoney sincerity and then says, "Really though mom. I don't want to do xyz right now." "I know hon, let's go get the shower ready." And off we go to do what we needed to do.