"I hate you" "Stupid Mom"

[LisaMarie]

I'm just not sure how to deal with the verbal retaliations of my (almost) 6 yr old. The 3 boys have really taken to calling each other stupid, poohead, bum, etc - and i have no idea how to deal with it effectively. Telling them to knock it off isn't working.

But Middle has taken it an extra step when he's angry at me. He's started calling me stupid and i hate you. I know it's just him trying to express his anger at me - but I feel it's disrespectful and DH wants me to spank the attitude out of Middle.

I'm so torn. I feel like my authority as parent is undermined, but beating him senseless doesn't solve anything.

How do I handle these outbursts of rudeness?

[Psyche]

I hate you doesn't bother me. Stupid would. :yes

I would just tell him "you may not call someone stupid. If you are angry at me you need to find a different way of telling me or you need to find some place to cool off."

[beansmama]

:hug2

Yes, if he's 6, he can understand he needs to communicate and not rant. Who are they hearing these phrases from? Friends? TV?

I'd say he should to be given permission to vent, but say something less hurtful - "You may not say that, if you are angry at me, you need to say "I'm angry with you" "I wish you would not bother me." Things like that are not demeaning, they are expressive. Ditto with his brothers. "You are annoying me" "you are bothering me" "I don't like it when you do XYZ" and then you can work on how to solve those issues.

[Titus2Momof4]

Honestly, I would start at the beginning and take this one step at a time. Ideally, you would be able to get rid of it all, completely, in one shot. However, that may or may not be realistic...

Start at the beginning: the name-calling among each other (because that's really where the name-calling toward you originates). Where/how/when did this start? Have you allowed it to go on, do you think? You say that you tell them to "knock it off." Are you doing anything to make them "knock it off"?

Also, where are they hearing this talk in the first place? Are they allowed to watch tv shows/play games/hear songs where this type of name-calling is prevalent? If so, that would "normalize" it for them. I don't want to presume that you let them watch shows/play games/hear songs with this type of language...but I will just say that it is shocking (to me anyway) at the amount of movies, shows and games that have this type of language.

We recently bought a DS (used, from a good friend who only used it a few times) and it came with about 18 games. Really good deal. :rockon Some of the games, though. :doh While innocent in and of themselves (such as an ice-skating game or a make-up game), the games contain language that we don't allow our children to say ("stupid" is one example). Since we don't let our children speak that way, we certainly were not going to let them have that type of language constantly set before their eyes, which would normalize it for them. Same goes for the type of company they keep (friends) and movies/shows they watch.

Psalm 101:3-4:
3-I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

4-A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.

Philippians 4:8:
8-Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

We apply these scriptures to the things our children take in and are exposed to. This means we don't allow any movies or shows that contain siblings speaking hatefully toward each other, being mean toward each other, bossing each other around, showing disgust toward each other, etc. It also means we don't watch programs where name-calling is the norm, where parents are portrayed as "stupid, dumb, uncool, idiotic 'rents" or where children talk back to their parents. (The same applies to books and songs, btw.) Our feeling is that if that behavior is normalized for them, then it carries over into the way they interact with each other, which we don't want. We have other standards and things that aren't allowed, but since this topic was about name-calling and sibling interaction, I'll just leave it at that. ;)

So, I would start there...and hopefully the other problem (speaking that way to you) will resolve itself. :heart:hugheart

[zak]

We use "The tongue has the power of life or death, and those who love it will eat its fruit" a lot. :) I think that's Prov 18:21... I'd have to double check, but I'm being lazy. ;)

I will say things like:


"Those are unkind words, try again"

"You may be angry with me, but you may not call me names"

"I understand you're upset that I won't allow you to do/eat/play with X, but you may not call me names, try again"

I just offer chances to try again. If he can't change his words/attitude, I give him time to "chill out" (in a chair/couch near me) and when he's ready to apologize/change his words, I'm ready to hear them.

I've found my 6yo to be pretty tough the first 6 months and recently much easier the closer we get to seven. But it's been a very "mouthy" year so far. :hugs

[Aisling]

Sounds like you've got a verbal processor on your hands. :hug Have you read Dealing with Disappointment? It's got a lot of good ideas for helping verbal release kids learn how to manage their own upset.

I was a "talker", and, frankly, no amount of scripture memorizing or concept-understanding was particularly helpful. Script*ting* probably would have been. :tu

"Stupid mommy!!"

"I can tell you're really upset. I am not stupid, and name calling isn't OK in our home. Come back when you'd like suggestions for how to tell me you're really, REALLY upset with me. I've got some good ones. :wink" And walk away. :heart

Other appropriate reflections I use are: "My rule really doesn't make sense to you, huh?" "Wow, doing XYZ is really important to you. The way you're telling me that is NOT OK. Would you like help making a plan to do it sometime soon?" "Whoa!! I *really* don't like being called names; that's not OK. I'll be happy to try to find a solution that works when you're ready to talk to me reasonably. Right now, I can't listen to you."

[Marsha]

Sounds like you've got a verbal processor on your hands. :hug Have you read Dealing with Disappointment? It's got a lot of good ideas for helping verbal release kids learn how to manage their own upset.

I was a "talker", and, frankly, no amount of scripture memorizing or concept-understanding was particularly helpful. Script*ting* probably would have been. :tu

"Stupid mommy!!"

"I can tell you're really upset. I am not stupid, and name calling isn't OK in our home. Come back when you'd like suggestions for how to tell me you're really, REALLY upset with me. I've got some good ones. :wink" And walk away. :heart


This. Absolutely. And where they hear it isn't even relevant IMO. If all they heard was "let's clean cow manure out of the barn" you can be they'd be calling you "cow manure". The words aren't relevant so much as learning what is socially acceptable and respectful and what isn't.

[Titus2Momof4]

And where they hear it isn't even relevant IMO. If all they heard was "let's clean cow manure out of the barn" you can be they'd be calling you "cow manure". The words aren't relevant so much as learning what is socially acceptable and respectful and what isn't.

This seems contradictory to me. Of course where they heard it is relevant. If you can pinpoint where they heard it, you can remove that thing from their exposure. Children (some, anyway) mimic what they hear. As you said yourself, if they were exposed to constant talk about cow manure, they might call her cow manure, having determined that that must mean something awful ("cow manure"). Regardless of what they are calling her, they need to understand that saying ugly things to each other and mom is unacceptable. It won't HELP things to constantly expose them to whatever it is that generated that talk. What will help will be to remove those things--meanwhile focusing on what's going on both outside and inside (outside and inside the children, I mean), along with giving them the right things TO say to each other and mom.

[Marsha]

Ok, IMO you can't remove your children from the world. You can teach them to choose their words more carefully. That's all. I understand that my children go to PS and yours probably don't. And mine watch lots of TV. But that' snot where the impulse to name calling comes from. That;'s all I meant.

[Aisling]

I tend to view name-calling, etc as a childish, immature attempt at expressing anger-the expression of anger/displeasure itself not being a negative thing. As an extremely sheltered child, I resorted to spitting and making up my own names...not because of bad habit or exposure, but because I really just lacked the appropriate tools to express my valid emotion. It was more like a caveman trying to hunt by throwing rocks. :giggle

I try to be extremely careful not to label that attempt as "sin/evil" coming from the inside of the child. Positive intent would dictate that I recognize the heart of what's going on (an attempt at asserting a boundary or expression o anger), and guide them toward a more respectful and appropriate way to do that. I've found that assuming worldly intent/darkness tends to really muddy the water and confuse the heart of what I'm trying to teach my kids. :twocents

[Marzipan]

My ds (who's media exposure is *very* limited,) went through this saaaaame thing. I did about what some other people have outlined (I know you're angry and you may not speak that way to me...it's okay to say xyz) but mostly I think he outgrew it. I just noticed last week that the lashing out (verbally and physically) has *really* spaced out a lot in the last month.

[mommylobster]

This seems contradictory to me. Of course where they heard it is relevant. If you can pinpoint where they heard it, you can remove that thing from their exposure. Children (some, anyway) mimic what they hear. As you said yourself, if they were exposed to constant talk about cow manure, they might call her cow manure, having determined that that must mean something awful ("cow manure"). Regardless of what they are calling her, they need to understand that saying ugly things to each other and mom is unacceptable. It won't HELP things to constantly expose them to whatever it is that generated that talk. What will help will be to remove those things--meanwhile focusing on what's going on both outside and inside (outside and inside the children, I mean), along with giving them the right things TO say to each other and mom.

But you can't eliminate everything. You can eliminate some things but they will be exposed to it one way or another at some point in their life. Just because a child lives in a TV free home doesn't mean they won't pick words up at school, park etc. :shrug

Instead of trying to eliminate I use as many opportunities as I can to teach the power of words. Everyone has a different tolerance for words. I don't have a problem with many words unless they are used to hurt someone. For example, you can say very mean things with regular words. But swearing, not aimed at someone, holds only the weight that the person hearing it gives it.

I'm repeating what's already been said but I also agree that it's not ok to call me stupid but if you hate me that's your choice. I cannot force my son not to hate me, I can't force him to not call me stupid for that matter, but I can set a boundary for what I am ok with being called and teach that calling people names hurts feelings.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

I tend to view name-calling, etc as a childish, immature attempt at expressing anger-the expression of anger/displeasure itself not being a negative thing. As an extremely sheltered child, I resorted to spitting and making up my own names...not because of bad habit or exposure, but because I really just lacked the appropriate tools to express my valid emotion. It was more like a caveman trying to hunt by throwing rocks. :giggle

I try to be extremely careful not to label that attempt as "sin/evil" coming from the inside of the child. Positive intent would dictate that I recognize the heart of what's going on (an attempt at asserting a boundary or expression o anger), and guide them toward a more respectful and appropriate way to do that. I've found that assuming worldly intent/darkness tends to really muddy the water and confuse the heart of what I'm trying to teach my kids. :twocents

I really like what you wrote here :yes

[Titus2Momof4]

I try to be extremely careful not to label that attempt as "sin/evil" coming from the inside of the child.
<snip>

I've found that assuming worldly intent/darkness tends to really muddy the water and confuse the heart of what I'm trying to teach my kids. :twocents

Who advised her to do either of those things?

But you can't eliminate everything. You can eliminate some things but they will be exposed to it one way or another at some point in their life. Just because a child lives in a TV free home doesn't mean they won't pick words up at school, park etc. :shrug

<snip the rest of your post>



All I'm going to say here is that my "baby" is a couple of years older than your child and that my eldest children are pre-teens. And yet, here--in our cable/Netflix/Wii/DS/Bluray/3 computer/millions of books and more gadgets-induced home--I have managed to limit their exposure to things. I never used the word "eliminate," but since you did...eliminate would imply that something came into our home in the first place. We prevent things from coming in in the first place. I talked about removing things from the home (which may be where you got the word "eliminate"), but that was directed at the OP.

I'll also point out that "exposure" and "constant exposure" are two different things. One trip to Wal-Mart, for instance, can expose children to many undesirable things. My family takes regular trips to both Sea World and Walt Disney World, for instance. We're also active in sports (on a seasonal basis) and take field trips or spend time with some of our friends in our homeschooling group. Still, we've managed to keep out the things I mentioned earlier, in part because we do not allow constant exposure to things we don't desire. :shrug3

Apparently, we will have to agree to disagree (and this is nothing personal :heart I try to make sure people don't take what I'm saying personally, because I'm sure not taking anything anyone else is saying personally. :heart:heart)

Also, in case it wasn't clear in my first post:

I believe, in ALL behaviors my children exhibit, in getting to the ROOT of the problem. This comes from the fact that I tend to assign positive intent and assume that people don't *actually* want to behave poorly, hurt each other, etc. Therefore, my advice hinges on getting to the root of the problem. LisaMarie, I hope you didn't think that I was saying "remove the root of the problem and all your dreams will come true." :no I say that because it seems like that is what the posters following me honed in on...and yet, ultimately that was so far from being "the point" of my post. It was more like, "Step 1: <insert post>"

[It occurs to me at this moment that my sig here is incredibly outdated. Changed it!]

[joysworld]

My ds would say 'I hate you' but also that he was going to kill me. For *me* where he heard it isn't important. What's important is to teach him how to handle his anger in an appropriate manner. We don't watch things that have 'I'm gonna kill you' in it, so where it came from is a moot point. Kids pick up things for *anywhere* and it will stick.

I found that I would reflect that I he was angry, but saying such things are not an acceptable way to handle anger. I would ask to try again, and if he wasn't ready, he could wait in his room until he was more composed and able to work through handling his anger. I also absolutely do not allow name calling. Period. Whenever I hear them calling each other names, I redirect them to try again, and let them know that name calling is not okay.

I believe it's normal for a child this age to through an 'I hate you' phase. I hate you bothers me way more than calling me stupid. I have HUGE feelings on telling someone you hate them. So that is what I focused most on. If he were to call me stupid, I would inform him to try again. If he tells me hates me, I tell him that is an unacceptable thing to say and walk him through more appropriate steps.

[LisaMarie]

Wow. Lots of posts! haha. Been busy getting groceries and errands and family time together. :) Will read and respond as soon as I get 5- 10 mins without a kid attached haha. Thank you!

[mommylobster]

Who advised her to do either of those things?



All I'm going to say here is that my "baby" is a couple of years older than your child and that my eldest children are pre-teens. And yet, here--in our cable/Netflix/Wii/DS/Bluray/3 computer/millions of books and more gadgets-induced home--I have managed to limit their exposure to things. I never used the word "eliminate," but since you did...eliminate would imply that something came into our home in the first place. We prevent things from coming in in the first place. I talked about removing things from the home (which may be where you got the word "eliminate"), but that was directed at the OP.

Still, we've managed to keep out the things I mentioned earlier, in part because we do not allow constant exposure to things we don't desire. :shrug3

Apparently, we will have to agree to disagree (and this is nothing personal :heart I try to make sure people don't take what I'm saying personally, because I'm sure not taking anything anyone else is saying personally. :heart:heart)

Changed it!]

Yah, I was thinking remove meant eliminate, I should have used the word you did, sorry :hug

I think agreeing to disagree is good :) Having said that can I pick your brain a little? :giggle I guess I just don't understand how trying to prevent certain stuff coming in is beneficial? :think Don't get me wrong, I try to monitor what DS watches and try to make sure its age appropriate but I just see, in some cases, that prevention is an illusion of control :shrug

[Damselfly]

Someone on GCM suggested offering, "I'm mad at you right now" as an alternative to "I hate you." I've been doing that for a couple of months now and it has really helped my son stop saying "I hate you" as much. At first he began to say, "I hate you right now." :giggle After a while he would occasionally say, "I'm mad at you right now" and gradually he said it more and "I hate you" less. He doesn't say "I hate you" very often anymore and it had become a really regular habit with him before.

We're still working on stupid, although it is used less than before. I just respond with, "That is not kind. Stupid is not a word to call people." Of course he still loves making up insults by adding the word "bum" to anything. I think it's partly just a fascination with words.

As far as limiting exposure, I don't think my son heard "stupid" or "I hate you" from a movie or game or anything like that. See, I would occasionally say something like, "Oh, I hate it when people cut me off in traffic" or "I hate this refrigerator!" :shifty He was smart enough to figure out that telling a person you hated them was pretty insulting. One day we were in the car and I said, "Argh, I hate it when people cut me off." He said, mimicking my words rather piously, "Mama, hate is a very strong word." I agreed and pointed out that using the word that way is different than telling someone you hate them. He said, "Yes, but you have small children who might be confused." (Keep in mind he's my youngest so he's remonstrating me for causing him confusion. *Snort*) My husband sometimes says something like "stupid computer" in place of stronger words and I probably have done the same. We do try not to use the words "stupid" and "hate" now but occasionally it happens.

We do try to limit their exposure to any media where people treat other people with disrespect, whether its name-calling or something else, but I think kids are quite capable of coming up with this kind of thing on their own. That's why I don't think figuring out the source is that important.

[Rabbit]

In the end, true maturity is the ability to differentiate between appropriate and inappropriate behavior, and that means learning not to get into "I HATE YOU!" just because you saw it on TV.

If a particular show or friend seems to be exacerbating age appropriate struggles, or overly encouraging of them, we ditch it or them. Otherwise, I don't worry about who in their life demonstrated a particular behavior.

Every child, even the most sheltered, will go through an "I hate you!" phase, whether they are raised alone on the prairie, or in front of the world's TV. Every toddler goes through a hitting phase, whether or not they attend a playgroup or have a parent who hits them. It is unwise to blame the normal struggles of childhood on an outside influence (or the devil.) I'm not claiming any GCMer ever actually has. I know other people in my RL who have, and this is a public thread.

[Titus2Momof4]

Having said that can I pick your brain a little? :giggle I guess I just don't understand how trying to prevent certain stuff coming in is beneficial? :think Don't get me wrong, I try to monitor what DS watches and try to make sure its age appropriate but I just see, in some cases, that prevention is an illusion of control :shrug

Well, I should point out here that it isn't *just* limiting exposure. Meaning, we don't *only* prevent things from coming in (or remove those that have crept in) and that's that. :no While limiting exposure, we also provide alternatives. I wonder if I'm expressing myself clearly here. :think What I mean is, our home isn't just full of "Rules, rules, rules, you can't, can't, can't, no, no, no." Actually, it's primarily just "the way it is" and for many of the things, the kids didn't even realize we were limiting exposure until they got older. We just simply didn't have those things in our home. :shrug2

As they got older and aware (either through someone at a co-op we were in, at a park, at Wal-Mart...) that some children are allowed to do/say/watch things they aren't, they would ask us about it. At that time, we would explain why we don't have those things. Since us NOT having those things is their "normal," they definitely aren't craving those other things--they just wanted to understand our reasoning, which we completely encourage. :tu The main point is, we don't want to normalize anything that doesn't jive with our family's values, so we limit their exposure to things. You could say it's similar to people not wanting their children reading stories about children being "spanked and beaten" (found in a lot of older children's stories) because they don't want to normalize that for their children.

Tangent :ot It's the same reason why for now they have been basically born in the church, go with us three times a week, love church and the people there, etc.--but we expect that by the time they are somewhere around 13-15, they'll probably have questions about WHY we believe what we believe. (And if they don't, DH and I intend on coming to them and talking about it anyway because we want them to know WHY they believe what they believe. Anyway...)

FWIW, none of my (imperfect, far from angelic) children ever went through an "I hate you!" phase or a "Stupid Mom!" phase. Again, they are far from perfect so I hope that does not come across as a pompous statement; it just is what it is. :heart

[zak]

Ames and Ilg talks about something called, I think, "adolescent profanity" in their 4 or 5 yo book. When I read that I was like :light oh, wow! Words have power. They know this, Christian or not, scriptures or not. Not ALL kids will do this, my two olders do (but they never had a hitting phase ;) ).

I know exactly where my kids got the *power* words they use, Pixar (Thank you, Cars and Toy Story). Moron, Idiot and Stupid are ones that are often used in those movies and, well, my kids clung to them. We use scripting and "try again" a lot. They are works in progress. ;)


Have you read any of the Ames and Ilg books, LisaMarie?

[Rabbit]

Samantha's hitting phase lasted a day. She still tried it.

[LisaMarie]

Thank you for all the scripts. :) I will work on them.

I've had a hard time with this particular child and knowing how to parent him. I feel kind of like I'm failing him because he has such extreme needs. He would definitely qualify as a high-spirit one and has huge emotions, etc.

Someone mentioned the "I'm going to kill you" comment - had that too. It has stopped now, but ugh.


I just hate this new season of 3 young brothers calling each other all sorts of names (either made up or real). I know that DH and I are guilty of sloppy language and that's more than likely where they've picked up some of this from.

I haven't heard of Ames and Ilg before?

I will try some of the scripts here to see how this works.

Thanks for some of the other suggestions too. :) Much appreciated.

[Titus2Momof4]

Samantha's hitting phase lasted a day. She still tried it.

We didn't get off so easy on the hitting phase. ;) Those I'd say lasted...:think....well, we still have the occassional whack, usually from one of the younger ones. :shifty

Like I said, we didn't have any "I hate you!" or "Stupid Mom" stuff going on--but we had our own issues. :yes

[Damselfly]

I've had a hard time with this particular child and knowing how to parent him. I feel kind of like I'm failing him because he has such extreme needs. He would definitely qualify as a high-spirit one and has huge emotions, etc.

:hugheart I understand. I have one high-spirited, high needs child and one intense, high anxiety child. It can be really hard to deal with all the needs and then struggle with feelings of inadequacy on top of it. One thing I tell myself is while I'm not parenting perfectly by any means, it would be much harder on them if I was parenting punitively. It helps to remember that.

[LisaMarie]

Yes. I think this is it. My oldest is (and always has been) very emotionally-needy. Middle is his own sorts of special. And Little has developped a need to be heard over it all - and being 4 has decided that means lots of yelling. haha. I'm usually wiped by all the needs.

I appreciate all the help from GCM - both direct and indirect, because without having read ideas and suggestions here, I would have given into the darkside a long time ago. I'm not saying I don't stumble into it on a regular basis, but it keeps me from living in that punitive mindset to know it's possible. Even with high-intensity parenting. :)