Three year old with a paci?

[PaperMomma]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong room.



My daughter turned 3 in May. She still gets a paci at bedtime to help her go to sleep, or if she gets hurt or needs comfort. Of course, I'm not thrilled that she still uses it, but I've left it alone. Partially because I feel a little guilty that I didn't nurse her for longer, and partially because she really does seem to need it.

DH is really unhappy about it, but I guess he's tolerated it for this long? :shrug3 We've talked about a few different "methods" for getting her off of it, but haven't done any. So yesterday he cut the tip of of one of her pacis. She laughed and said that it was broken. She tried putting it in her mouth, and laughed and said that it was broken. All the jokes were over though when she really needed one, and I found one for her that wasn't "broken".


So today I saw that he had cut another one of the pacis, and I asked him about it. He said, in front of DD, that now that she's bigger she chews holes in them when she sleeps. I said that I didn't think it was a good idea to lie to her.(We've decided not to do Santa Claus because even thought it's fun, it's really a big lie. No offense to anyone that does, that's just how we feel about it. I was surprised that he'd choose to lie now.) He flipped out and said that I was overreacting, and that the paci was something that should have been taken care of a long time ago and if I didn't like it I could do something else.



Am I overreacting? It's not ok to lie to your kid, even a white lie, right?


What's an alternative? Is there a gentle way to get DD to not need her paci anymore? She talks about how it helps her feel better, and I'm not sure if she can even go to sleep without it. :(

[Mama Calidad]

My 4yo still uses her paci a lot. I wanna mark this to come back to, as I'm running out the door. :hugheart

[nessnco]

The day after her birthday you could have a talk about how now she's a big girl etc that its time to say good bye to the pacifier (maybe get a special soft toy in its place) and then bury the pacifier or ceremoniously (don't think thats spelt right) put it in the outside bin.

Another thing is if you are really fine with it (personally I can't see an issue 3 is very young) ask DH why he has an issue - it may be resolvable.

I agree I never did santa, tooth fairy etc because I didn't want to lie so lying about a pacifier is going against your boundary. I do believe if we lie to our children they will lie to us and my kids don't (although sometimes I'd rather not know the truth). hehe

[Marrae]

My ds had his until he was 4. On his 4th birthday he just put them all in the bin and he had been really attached to them. We had talked about it in advance and this is what he wanted to do.

TBH I would be more concerned with the way that your dh is acting than with a 3 yo using a paci. I do not think you are over-reacting.:hug I think that you need to talk about it and how you are going to handle it with your dh and with your dd seperately. :hug Your dd might surprise you with ideas of how to give it up or how to replace it with another comfort measure.

[mamacat]

I dont know what to say about your dhs feelings about it but some 3 yr olds still want to nurse,especially when settling down for bed at night.Some kids just seem to need to suck longerfor comfort so it doesnt surprise me when some 3 yr olds still want a bottle or paci

[dukeofhazzard]

:shrug3 My olders both used paci's to sleep until they were 7. The dentist says their mouths are perfect.

Your DH seems to be overreacting, possibly out of fear? Fear for her teeth? You should probably talk with him and find out what's upsetting him so much. :hugheart

[bolt.]

I think your husband's parenting values and opinions need to matter in your family. He seems to have a strong opinion about the paci issue -- and I truly think that's OK.

I truly think it's OK to use a paci until you're 7.

I also think it's OK to make them 'broken' or just get rid of them and allow a child to be unhappy about that for a short while. I think it's OK to do that at 3, or even younger.

These things are family decisions. That means that the end-decision takes into account the opinions of both parents, even if they disagree. It does not mean, "Mommies rock and all child-decisions should be female led."

What's not OK is that you two are each enacting your own non-unified plans in front of your child, rather than having a conversation and coming to a compromise. The lying is definitely not OK (unless she has at any point chewed through a paci... in which case it's not a lie, it's a truth-based misdirection... which I'm not that bothered by). It was also not OK for you to put him on the spot, in front of his child, revealing that he is the source of her broken paci and making him into the bad guy.

You two need a paci plan that you can both live with. You need to both talk and both listen and come to an agreement. If you truly can't -- then you both need to read some good relationship books and/or see a counselor. This is absolutely NOT the last parenting value that you will have different opinions about, and you both need to develop the skills of working towards a workable solution.

Unless their is something unusual about your child, a paci is not a 'need'. A paci is a tool. It is a useful tool that your child finds helpful in self-soothing and getting to sleep. It's not accurate to say, "She truly needs it." It's accurate to say, "She experiences genuine distress and difficulty without it." There are lots of ways to help her with that, if you had to -- but I think the core of this issue is about parental frustration, not paci removal strategies. (Saying things accurately helps with discussions, compromise and negotiation. Saying, "It's necessary." stops a conversation cold.)

Your husband sounds very frustrated that you seem to have excluded his opinions and gone ahead with only your own opinions in parenting the children you share. That's not healthy -- and neither are his actions. I suggest you take this issue seriously and use it as a test-case to see if you can learn the skills of compromising when your parenting values are not identical.

[PaperMomma]

I dont know what to say about your dhs feelings about it but some 3 yr olds still want to nurse,especially when settling down for bed at night.Some kids just seem to need to suck longerfor comfort so it doesnt surprise me when some 3 yr olds still want a bottle or paci

I know. That's why I've hesitated to rid her of it. I'll freely admit that I feel guilty that I'm not still nursing her. Maybe irrational, but it's played into my dragging my feet.

:shrug3 My olders both used paci's to sleep until they were 7. The dentist says their mouths are perfect.

Your DH seems to be overreacting, possibly out of fear? Fear for her teeth? You should probably talk with him and find out what's upsetting him so much. :hugheart


It's already affecting her teeth! :cry

I think your husband's parenting values and opinions need to matter in your family. He seems to have a strong opinion about the paci issue -- and I truly think that's OK.

I truly think it's OK to use a paci until you're 7.

I also think it's OK to make them 'broken' or just get rid of them and allow a child to be unhappy about that for a short while. I think it's OK to do that at 3, or even younger.

These things are family decisions. That means that the end-decision takes into account the opinions of both parents, even if they disagree. It does not mean, "Mommies rock and all child-decisions should be female led."

Thank you. That helps.


And I agree- I am not the end all be all of parenting just because I'm the mom. Dad's opinion is important too. We are(or should be) a parenting team.


And really, honestly, that's not where I'm coming from. *I* wasn't ready to force DD to give up the paci. But we've been discussing it for over a year now, talking about different strategies and such. I've told him for over a year now that *I* wasn't ready, but that if he felt strongly about it he had the okay from me to start implementing any of the strategies. This is the first time he's done anything. And I'm going with it- I'm just not comfortable with the lying part.



What's not OK is that you two are each enacting your own non-unified plans in front of your child, rather than having a conversation and coming to a compromise. The lying is definitely not OK (unless she has at any point chewed through a paci... in which case it's not a lie, it's a truth-based misdirection... which I'm not that bothered by). It was also not OK for you to put him on the spot, in front of his child, revealing that he is the source of her broken paci and making him into the bad guy.

Point taken. I shouldn't have brought it up in front of her.



You two need a paci plan that you can both live with. You need to both talk and both listen and come to an agreement. If you truly can't -- then you both need to read some good relationship books and/or see a counselor. This is absolutely NOT the last parenting value that you will have different opinions about, and you both need to develop the skills of working towards a workable solution.


I agree. I wish he would have given me a heads up before he did something, and maybe we could have gotten on the same page before moving forward. But I guess I'm partially to blame for that since I've told him several times he could move forward with it whenever he was ready.

But yeah- that's what I was most frustrated about- that he just totally shut down and wouldn't talk about it. I wasn't freaking out, just pointing out that we had agreed not to lie to our children, and that I wasn't comfortable with that- and he completely shut down and wouldn't talk about it.


Unless their is something unusual about your child, a paci is not a 'need'. A paci is a tool. It is a useful tool that your child finds helpful in self-soothing and getting to sleep. It's not accurate to say, "She truly needs it." It's accurate to say, "She experiences genuine distress and difficulty without it." There are lots of ways to help her with that, if you had to -- but I think the core of this issue is about parental frustration, not paci removal strategies. (Saying things accurately helps with discussions, compromise and negotiation. Saying, "It's necessary." stops a conversation cold.)


That's true. I guess I'm just scared she's not going to be able to find another tool, or be scarred for life, and like I said earlier, I feel a little guilty. I guess most of that is irrational and I need to move on. :blush

Your husband sounds very frustrated that you seem to have excluded his opinions and gone ahead with only your own opinions in parenting the children you share. That's not healthy -- and neither are his actions. I suggest you take this issue seriously and use it as a test-case to see if you can learn the skills of compromising when your parenting values are not identical.

Ouch.

That's really not what I'm doing. And I try really hard not to do that with other things too. When he's dealing with the kids, I make a conscious effort to butt out and let him parent his way. And trust me, it's really hard to bite my tongue when he's spanking DD- but I do. I'm just praying he stops spanking by the time DS gets older, because I don't think I could hold back at that point.


But you're almost certainly right that he feels that way, and a lot of it stems from marriage issues that we had a few years ago(I explained a little more about that in my intro thread). It's frustrating for me that he can't see who I am now or how I feel about it. But I can't change that- I guess I need to focus more on showing him that I do value his opinion, even if I disagree, and his worth as a parent.


I sent him a text and apologized for bringing it up in front of DD, and told him that I didn't have an issue with taking the paci away, just the lying, and that I was sure she'd be fine after a couple of rough days. Hopefully that smooths things over a bit.

[aleigh]

I agree with everything Bolt said.

And, speaking from experience, you are not going to scar her for life by taking away her paci. My DS LOVED his paci- we got rid of it at 2 1/2 (which was way past my comfort zone for the paci). We made it his choice (with a bit of bribery). It wasn't easy- it was a rough bedtime for 2 weeks, but he was okay. He got used to sleeping without it.

My DD will be 3 in December & I wish we had taken hers away a long, long time ago, but we didn't. We've been talking with her a lot about it & she knows that when she turns 3, the binkies go bye-bye. It will be hard, but we're going to stick to it.

And, if it's already damaging her teeth, I would say you definitely need to take it away ASAP.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

Do you need ideas for how to help her with getting to sleep or getting comfort in place of the paci?

I've been cutting back on nursing ALOT with my 3-year-old, so I'd be happy to help with that.

[bolt.]

Ouch.

That's really not what I'm doing. And I try really hard not to do that with other things too. When he's dealing with the kids, I make a conscious effort to butt out and let him parent his way.
Sorry I jumped too far towards a conclusion there! I can see that the 'learning to compromise through disagreement' plan is very much underway in your family.

[PaperMomma]

Do you need ideas for how to help her with getting to sleep or getting comfort in place of the paci?

I've been cutting back on nursing ALOT with my 3-year-old, so I'd be happy to help with that.

Yes, please. I know she needs to learn new tools, but I'm at a complete loss as to what to point her towards. One other thing she has is that she loves to rub the outside of her hand on someone's arm as she's falling asleep- but tonight it took her over an hour to even get sleepy enough to want to do that.

Sorry I jumped too far towards a conclusion there! I can see that the 'learning to compromise through disagreement' plan is very much underway in your family.

Eh, kindof. I'm very much wanting to do that, and trying- DH, not so much.




Please, please pray for me. I'm so upset I'm shaking and crying right now. Tonight was just completely horrible, with a big argument with DH to top it off.


We had Bible study at our house tonight. I don't get to be a part because of the kids, and tonight I was putting them to bed while it was going on. Nursed DS down to sleep pretty fast, but I laid with DD for over an hour and she wasn't even getting close to sleep. With her paci it takes her 10 minutes or less to fall asleep- usually less. And if I tell her to lay still and stop talking, she does, no problem.


But she couldn't without the paci. She couldn't stop fidgeting, like she didn't know what to do. She didn't want to rub my arm because she wasn't sleepy enough yet. She was squirming all over the place and couldn't settle, and after over an hour of that I was totally frustrated and touched out.

Most of the people from the Bible study were gone by then, so I asked DH to lay with her. I stupidly thought that of course he would, even though he normally won't, because of taking away the paci. Oh no. She was standing out in the hall while he was saying goodbye to the last 2 people. She was crying and asking him to come lay with her. He told her harshly to go lay in bed and he was going to come lay with her. She didn't, and he told her to go lay down right now or he was going to spank her. He did- he spanked her because she didn't want to lay in bed alone for the 2 seconds it took him to say goodbye to those 2 guys. :cry2:bheart


He finally went in there for a couple of minutes and told her how she had to go to sleep even though she didn't want to, blah blah blah. Then he came out and left her in there alone, even though she was wanting him to lay with her.



Then we got in a huge fight about it. I tried to explain that she needs extra help getting used to this change, and that we've taken away the only way she's known how to relax and go to sleep, and that she deserves a little extra compassion and help for the first few nights.


He went into a huge tirade about how I sound like a liberal, and how our kids are going to grow up into whiny adults who don't know how to do anything for themselves, and are always looking for someone to help them. He said he didn't know what happened to the person he married that believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" and that he didn't understand this new universe with all these fluffy philosophies.


He said that it was a matter of discipline- that if he told her to go lay down and go to sleep she should. What, just like a little freaking robot?!?!?!

I tried to tell him that this has NOTHING to do with discipline- that she's not doing anything wrong- she's just a three year old who needs help going through what to her is a tough transition. But he couldn't understand that at all and said that was just me being soft, and that I couldn't see the big picture. Said I was discussing symptoms and not roots. Said that if we had been in "unity" about discipline from the beginning, we wouldn't be having this problem- and gestured towards her bedroom.


How can he not see that weaning a three year old of a paci has nothing to do with discipline?????? There's no need for discipline- she's not doing anything wrong!!!!! He's 100% willing to just trample her feelings and needs so that he can prove the point that he's in control. :sick



I'm sorry this is rambled and not cohesive- I'm really upset right now and I just need to get it out. :cry2:cry2:cry2

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

And I just feel so alone. After over an hour laying with her and being completely touched out, I should be able to have him step in and help. But no, it's all on me. If I don't want her to go to bed spanked and completely upset, I have to do it all. It's always me, even when I'm beyond what I can handle, unless I want her to suffer for it. And that's too much for one person to bear. I shouldn't have to do it all. :cry2

[ArmsOfLove]

I would be concerned that what your dh is doing will cause anxiety that will have this "need" stuck for longer than it would otherwise be. The need to suck is a very real need. If her paci's are taken away the reality is she will probably turn to sucking her thumb or something else. She will stop using it when she is ready :heart

[staceylayne]

I don't have any advice or words of wisdom but I have to offer a :hugheart What a rough position to be put in! Parenting is hard enough with mom and dad playing from the same playbook. :(

I do wonder if your DH felt extra pressure to appear to have his children "under control" because of the other people there from the Bible Study. I know I feel under a microscope sometimes...especially around other believers who parent punitively and see "first time obedience" from children as the mark of good, Christian parenting. It can be tough and cause me to second guess myself at times, even though I am quite committed to GBD.

I know there are other women here are parenting with husbands that do not see the value in gentle discipline...I hope you can find some encouragement and support from their experiences. :hug

[MarynMunchkins]

3 is a challenging age to parent, and it's often an age where parents get discouraged from the work to results ratio. It's been 3 long years of hard work, and you still only have a 3 year old. :doh :giggle

It might help to plan a date night where you can reconnect and have a discussion about what your goals in parenting are and what steps you're willing to take to accomplish them. :hug

[mamacat]

And that was just the 1st night - give it some time.Mybe when you discuss things with dh remind him that it is a hard thing for her to give up and she will get used to ot and be able to settle in gradually

[kiloyd]

I would handle it like I weaned my almost 3 yr old. Slowly cut back the time. I think bedtime at 3 is fine, slowly shortening it. Like she can have for 5 min., then 4 and so on, over many weeks.

I dont like that he lied to her either, but she is only 3, she might laugh about it in 10 years.

But yeah, I would think like you are.

My dh had issues with our first child nursing past 1. It was a hard disagrreement because he doesn't understand babies' needs.

[mamacat]

Maybe when you can talk w/o big feelings invoplved you can remind him that it is hard to give up a habit and comfort and doing it gradually over time will benefit everyone involved

[katiekind]

All of my children nursed to sleep at three, so I am not much help. It is an actual fact that sucking on something helps to calm and organize the brain, so the fact that nursing (or a paci) helps calm and focus a child for sleep is not that surprising.

They do outgrow this.

[zak]

I had a lot of pacifier guilt with my first (I didn't even have them in the house for the second or third :shifty ).

This is how a similar situation worked in our house:

My oldest nursed past two AND kept his pacifier (we called it a "button") until just past his 4th birthday.

I'm not a fan of lying to kids. I don't like the "Button Fairy". I don't agree with cutting them (that can be dangerous). I don't even like the stress for Mom/Child over "working on cutting back". :shrug2 It seems like a lot of work/stress.

I really agree with what AOL and katiekind said, "Eventually they will outgrow the need". They all do... be it from nursing, cosleeping, pacifiers, lovies, etc.

I thought my pacifier addicted child would NEVER, too. ;) But one day, shortly after his 4th birthday he tossed the last two we had into the trash can. :jawdrop WHAT?!?!? (I salvaged them, of course :shifty) But he never asked for them again. We did do a 10 day sticker chart to work toward a "goal", but really, he didn't need that. He was done. He was satisfied and had outgrown the need. I guess as a little bonus he did get a cool toy. ;) :lol

:hug I hope you and Hubby can come to agreement on how to best handle this in your own house. :heart

[Mama Calidad]

I would be concerned that what your dh is doing will cause anxiety that will have this "need" stuck for longer than it would otherwise be. The need to suck is a very real need. If her paci's are taken away the reality is she will probably turn to sucking her thumb or something else. She will stop using it when she is ready :heart

:yes If we can't find DD2's paci, she will in desperation resort to her thumb. She does NOT prefer it (says it tastes yucky), but the need to suck will lead her to it if all attempts at paci finding fail. I swallowed my pride to give her the pacis when she was a baby and took up sucking on her fingers with so much force that she was making them red. I do not want her sucking on her thumb and possibly causing lasting damage (my sister has permanent damage to her thumb from sucking it for years.)

And I really wouldn't be quick to blame any dental issues on the paci. My oldest just finished up braces that her ortho was certain was from thumb/paci sucking. :laughtears The child never took either. Never. Some kids are going to have issues and others aren't. I never took my thumb/paci and had to have braces. My sister who did perm damage to her thumb? Perfectly straight teeth. :shrug3

[Applesofgold]

:) I'm learning lots just by reading the wisdom here! Not sure what to do about the paci situation~I try hard to defer to my DH when we disagree, as he is the head of my home. If it's already bothering her teeth...that could get messy in the future. When we took our pacis away it was always on the 2nd or 3rd b-day and we bought them a new doll or teddy to hold at night. The first few days, we would take turns holding them while they fell asleep. After 2 or 3 days, all four were fine.

Not sure if it's a natural response for some husbands (maybe they don't know what else to do?), but mine tells little white lies too sometimes to get compliance, to avoid a meltdown, etc. He always says I'm overreacting when I call him on it (in private~I don't question why he lied when the girls are present). Unsure about this~I can't stand lying to my children...I think if I require honesty from them, they should certainly get it from us!

:)

[zak]

Wanted to add on the dental issue... DS1 had a little, not sure what to call it, his teeth didn't touch when his jaw was closed. There was a space there. Within MONTHS of ditching the pacifier his teeth were touching. :shrug2 People comment on his gorgeous teeth all.the.time. :giggle He did have a few cavities at his first dental appt, but his Mom and Dad have pretty rotten genetics when it comes to cavities too. ;)

[gardenfreshmama]

:hug Oh hun. That sounds like a really, really rough night. 3 is such, SUCH a hard age!

My dd was a complete paci-addict as well. (Which dh, incidentally, hated! :giggle) We agreed to let her have it until 4, which we told her, and told her at 4 she was a "big girl" and wouldn't need it anymore. We started about 6 months in advance. Then about 4 weeks before her birthday she lost the last one. We couldn't find it ANYWHERE. So that was that. We had a few rough nights, but then she was fine :shrug. This was about the same time we started Melatonin at night as well, so I'm sure that helped. (OT- I found that darn paci a few weeks ago- you better believe I threw it out faster than you can blink! ;))

You've gotten a lot of good advice re: your dh. As for me, I would not tolerate him spanking her for something like that, especially not right before bed when it's going to upset her all night. May I suggest that it might be a good time to put some boundaries in your relationship with dh? This might look like: "DH, I really don't want you to spank dd. If you feel like you are getting to that point, please let me handle the situation." Then.... you just handle it. I understand you are tired and touched out. But you going in there and being firm with her ("dd, I will sit here and read until you fall asleep. You may not touch or talk to me") is infinitely better than him going in there and hitting her (IMO).

You can't force your dh not to spank her :no. But you might be able to explain to him that there are consequences to your relationship with him when you see him spanking her (i.e. "DH, it breaks my heart to see you spank our children. It causes me to not want to be close with you."). Sorry if this is more advise than you are looking for :hug

[zak]

Oy! I missed your post about the nighttime spanking. :hugheart

It seems that this is not just about the pacifier use at an "older age". She NEEDS to be parented to sleep. I still parent my 6yo to sleep. :yes Of course it looks MUCH different than it did a year or two ago. Mostly now I just read to him and he falls asleep, but he still wants/needs me there, so I do it.

If he can't handle parenting her to sleep, I agree, you need to do it. Just step in and say you'll handle the nighttime stuff. I solo nighttime parent every.single.night. Is it tough? Some nights. But I do it because they really need it. All three of them.

I'm so sorry for the difficult night time situations. :( I know that you can restore sleep time as a time of peace and rest for your DD. :heart

[PaperMomma]

Thanks for all the prayers and advice, everyone. Wow, what a wonderful group. :heart


I'm running out the door right now (DH made me a hair appointment- so let me say at least one good thing about him right now :)), but I'll be back to comment later. Just wanted to say thank you for all the responses, it's really encouraging just to see so many people that care. :)

[gardenfreshmama]

:heart Nobody thinks your dh is a bad guy :hug

[bolt.]

But no, it's all on me. If I don't want her to go to bed spanked and completely upset, I have to do it all. It's always me, even when I'm beyond what I can handle, unless I want her to suffer for it. And that's too much for one person to bear. I shouldn't have to do it all.You know what... I'm really and genuinely sorry that you don't have a co-parent who is a partner in your values. I want to say that very clearly before I go on -- but I do need to go on.

Here's the hard line: the truth of the universe is that each person decides for themself what to do with their own body. You hold one set of values. Your values determine your actions. (Your husband holds a different set, and his values determine his actions.) You just can't expect it to be any other way. You are the only person in your home that believes in grace based discipline, and you are the only person who is going to be doing grace based discipline.

YES! It's hard for one person to do all the discipline work for a child.

But it's not 'too much for one person to bear' (unless you are thinking perfectionistically). It's exactly the duty you would bear if you were widowed, divorced or the wife of a soldier. It's exactly the duty that most non-liberated women have always borne through history, and in many parts of the world are still bearing.

Gentle discipline does work. But it does take longer, and it requires harder work, and a greater emotional investment. It's not 'the easy way' to parent. You can choose for you not to parent 'the easy way' -- but if you want to prevent your dh from resorting to it, you are going to have to man-up to the tough work of doing things the right way before he even notices an opportunity to do things some other way.

Yes. It's not fair. It's totally unfair -- but nobody 'owed' you the privilege of being part of an excellent parenting team. Maybe someday he'll get there. Until then, you are totally right in your statements: It is all on you, and you do have to do hard things even when you are exhausted and he's not helping. You have to do what you can not because it's fair in your marriage, but because it is right for your child -- because you have a duty before your God to do what is right for your child, to the best of your abilities, to the best of your understanding. That's the reality of your life in this season. May God bless you with His strength for this difficult calling!

If I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider 'not tolerating' anyone hitting your children. That's a big step, and I'm not saying I would do it -- but I would be seriously considering it. I don't think he's a bad guy. He's in over his head and acting on 'old information' that he seems quite attached to: we all do that. It's just a question of if and how you might limit the damage of that kind of thinking in your home.

---

Just to briefly respond to this, in case you think it's representative of a universal opinion....

Not sure what to do about the paci situation~I try hard to defer to my DH when we disagree, as he is the head of my home.I'm not sure where you got the idea that the husband is the 'head of the home' -- the Bible says clearly that the husband is the head of his wife, not an entire household. I'm also not sure why you are interpreting the metaphor of headship to have anything to do with deference or disagreement. All Biblical evidence is that the 'headship' concept has to do with marital unity, the image of God, and the gender implications of the creation story.

I don't think anyone has to defer to their husband simply because he is male.

Yes, there are longer discussions on this idea in the Theology section... but it's always an issue I'm ready to talk about in any context.

[Applesofgold]

Goodness, that was me that mentioned the deferring to my husband comment~and that's the way it works in our home, certainly not everyones. What I meant is that we discuss things freely with each other, but if we're at an impasse I leave the final decision to him (thankfully, for the most part he makes good decisions for my family~and he's willing to learn and chat about becoming more gentle in HIS parenting style too).

Commenting on the rest of your post(bolt.), I really like what you said here (copying and pasting as I don't know how to quote yet :shrug3:

YES! It's hard for one person to do all the discipline work for a child.

But it's not 'too much for one person to bear' (unless you are thinking perfectionistically). It's exactly the duty you would bear if you were widowed, divorced or the wife of a soldier. It's exactly the duty that most non-liberated women have always borne through history, and in many parts of the world are still bearing.

Gentle discipline does work. But it does take longer, and it requires harder work, and a greater emotional investment. It's not 'the easy way' to parent. You can choose for you not to parent 'the easy way' -- but if you want to prevent your dh from resorting to it, you are going to have to man-up to the tough work of doing things the right way before he even notices an opportunity to do things some other way.

Yes. It's not fair. It's totally unfair -- but nobody 'owed' you the privilege of being part of an excellent parenting team. Maybe someday he'll get there. Until then, you are totally right in your statements: It is all on you, and you do have to do hard things even when you are exhausted and he's not helping. You have to do what you can not because it's fair in your marriage, but because it is right for your child -- because you have a duty before your God to do what is right for your child, to the best of your abilities, to the best of your understanding. That's the reality of your life in this season. May God bless you with His strength for this difficult calling!


Thanks~I think I'll be referring to that whenever I want to throw myself a pity party! God bless!

[klpmommy]

When dh & I have similar issues it boils down to this: if HIS decision is going to make MY job as a mom harder he either has to step in my place and do it until it is smooth again or we go with my plan. This has come of 5 kids and 9 years of parenting. At first things like you described would happen -- usually he was talking to some one at work, came home worried about something our children were doing and made a new decree. He would make a new rule and expect me to deal with the fallout of it being difficult. It doesn't happen that way any more. :no

FWIW, we did a paci fairy with E (but we do the Tooth Fairy :shrug ) but she wasn't willing to give up her last paci until she was 6. On her 6th birthday she gave me her paci without a word of complaint in exchange for a stuffed horned lizard. Didn't effect her sleep at all that night b/c we had been talking about it for months and months.

And, yes, she will need some orthodontia. But she has her Daddy's narrow jaw and he needed major orthodontia without ever sucking a paci or his thumb. So I don't know that the paci made a huge difference either way. (And while I sucked my thumb until way older t han I admit and likely older than you think, a small amount of orthodontia might have helped, but was not in any way necessary and I never had it.)

[PaperMomma]

Thank you everyone for your responses and ideas. I've read all of them. I'm not going to respond to each one specifically, because that would be the longest post ever, but I did want to say thank you.





I do wonder if your DH felt extra pressure to appear to have his children "under control" because of the other people there from the Bible Study. I know I feel under a microscope sometimes...especially around other believers who parent punitively and see "first time obedience" from children as the mark of good, Christian parenting. It can be tough and cause me to second guess myself at times, even though I am quite committed to GBD.



Yes, I think that had something to do with it. He's quicker to spank when other people are around. And I'm sure it didn't help that one of the other guys was telling stories about how his dad whooped him and it only took a couple of times for him to learn his lesson.



And that was just the 1st night - give it some time.Mybe when you discuss things with dh remind him that it is a hard thing for her to give up and she will get used to ot and be able to settle in gradually

I tried explaining all of that to him. He said that none of that should matter- that I can't coddle her every want and that if he tells her to go lay down and go to sleep she should be able to do it.




And I really wouldn't be quick to blame any dental issues on the paci. My oldest just finished up braces that her ortho was certain was from thumb/paci sucking. :laughtears The child never took either. Never. Some kids are going to have issues and others aren't. I never took my thumb/paci and had to have braces. My sister who did perm damage to her thumb? Perfectly straight teeth. :shrug3

That's true, I did have horrible teeth before I had braces, so there could be genetics involved as well.


:) I'm learning lots just by reading the wisdom here! Not sure what to do about the paci situation~I try hard to defer to my DH when we disagree, as he is the head of my home.



Someone please tell me this is not the general consensus around here? No offense meant to you personally, Apples of gold, and your marriage is your business, but I've been down that road and have absolutely no desire to revisit it. That kind of thinking ruined my mother and almost ruined my sister and me.


I believe in mutual respect, mutual submission, and respectful discussion until an agreement or compromise is reached. Obviously my marriage is far from a perfect picture of that at the moment, but those are my beliefs. I've got a lot I could say about that, but I'll leave it at that for now- I'm new here and I don't want to step on too many toes, at least not before I get my bearing around here. (joking...)




You've gotten a lot of good advice re: your dh. As for me, I would not tolerate him spanking her for something like that, especially not right before bed when it's going to upset her all night. May I suggest that it might be a good time to put some boundaries in your relationship with dh? This might look like: "DH, I really don't want you to spank dd. If you feel like you are getting to that point, please let me handle the situation." Then.... you just handle it. I understand you are tired and touched out. But you going in there and being firm with her ("dd, I will sit here and read until you fall asleep. You may not touch or talk to me") is infinitely better than him going in there and hitting her (IMO).

You can't force your dh not to spank her :no. But you might be able to explain to him that there are consequences to your relationship with him when you see him spanking her (i.e. "DH, it breaks my heart to see you spank our children. It causes me to not want to be close with you."). Sorry if this is more advise than you are looking for :hug

I appreciate that, but that's just not an option right now. I agree with what was said earlier about how it's important for DH to have opinions, and that I'm not the only one that gets to decide how to raise the kids. I obviously completely disagree with what he's doing, but I can't just throw an ultimatum out there like that. I've done that before, about a different issue, and it nearly ruined us. I have to be willing to compromise.


I wish though....





You know what... I'm really and genuinely sorry that you don't have a co-parent who is a partner in your values. I want to say that very clearly before I go on -- but I do need to go on.

Here's the hard line: the truth of the universe is that each person decides for themself what to do with their own body. You hold one set of values. Your values determine your actions. (Your husband holds a different set, and his values determine his actions.) You just can't expect it to be any other way. You are the only person in your home that believes in grace based discipline, and you are the only person who is going to be doing grace based discipline.

YES! It's hard for one person to do all the discipline work for a child.

But it's not 'too much for one person to bear' (unless you are thinking perfectionistically). It's exactly the duty you would bear if you were widowed, divorced or the wife of a soldier. It's exactly the duty that most non-liberated women have always borne through history, and in many parts of the world are still bearing.

Gentle discipline does work. But it does take longer, and it requires harder work, and a greater emotional investment. It's not 'the easy way' to parent. You can choose for you not to parent 'the easy way' -- but if you want to prevent your dh from resorting to it, you are going to have to man-up to the tough work of doing things the right way before he even notices an opportunity to do things some other way.

Yes. It's not fair. It's totally unfair -- but nobody 'owed' you the privilege of being part of an excellent parenting team. Maybe someday he'll get there. Until then, you are totally right in your statements: It is all on you, and you do have to do hard things even when you are exhausted and he's not helping. You have to do what you can not because it's fair in your marriage, but because it is right for your child -- because you have a duty before your God to do what is right for your child, to the best of your abilities, to the best of your understanding. That's the reality of your life in this season. May God bless you with His strength for this difficult calling!




I see your point about there being a lot of single parents out there, and I apologize to any single parents here that I may have offended with my statements. That definitely wasn't my intention- I was upset, and venting, and perhaps didn't give enough thought to my words.


I disagree with your premise though. I think that parenting was designed to be a team effort. Why? Because it's impossible for a human to procreate on their own. I think that we were meant to have a partner, someone to fall back on when we've reached our limit. Two are better than one- that's the whole point of marriage.


But we live in a fallen world, and things don't always work out the way they're intended to. Life isn't fair. I get that. I'm doing the best I can right now, and the whole reason I'm here is to try to learn more tools so that I can do a better job as a parent than I am right now. I am trying, I am trying to learn to be more patient and be able to handle more with the kids. It's especially hard right now because I don't have anyone IRL to help me or even give me occasional time away from the kids. It's hard to keep on going 24/7 when I don't get time to recharge my own batteries. I know I have to keep on going for the sake of my kids- that's why I'm here. I was just frustrated and venting...... and I need help.




I'll be honest- I feel a little attacked. You've had some good points, and I do appreciate your honesty, and I'm not exclusively looking for a pat on the back or nice fluffy flowers, but geez- I'm brand new at this, I'm completely 100% alone in this IRL, and I'm looking for some help, support, and ideas. Don't get me wrong- I'm definitely willing to take a look in the mirror. I'm willing to admit it when I'm wrong and work to change it. I just feel a bit like you're picking me apart right now, and it's frustrating.


Just to briefly respond to this, in case you think it's representative of a universal opinion....

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the husband is the 'head of the home' -- the Bible says clearly that the husband is the head of his wife, not an entire household. I'm also not sure why you are interpreting the metaphor of headship to have anything to do with deference or disagreement. All Biblical evidence is that the 'headship' concept has to do with marital unity, the image of God, and the gender implications of the creation story.

I don't think anyone has to defer to their husband simply because he is male.

Yes, there are longer discussions on this idea in the Theology section... but it's always an issue I'm ready to talk about in any context.


Thank you for clarifying that. Glad to hear that's not a generally accepted idea around here. I look forward to reading more insights and thoughts about this topic if/when I'm allowed into the Theology room.

[kiloyd]

My dh was similar to yours in some ways. Did not understand that so many things are age appropriate. And that things you do now at age 3 are not coddling, they are meeting her needs.

I think you should tell dh that she is weaning off the paci but you want another couple months to do it. I would start with only at bedtime now. Then in a week, cut back the time.

For example, when I wean my toddlers from nursing bedtime has been the last to go. I count or sing a song and then they have to let go but I lay with them til they are asleep. I gradually decrease the length they can nurse but still lay with them. For the last month or two , myyoungest was down to nursing while I counted to 10.

It is so hard raising babies/toddlers when Daddy doesn't get it. I've been there. :hugheart

[ArmsOfLove]

I would encourage you to get some Ames and Ilg's "Your . . . Year Old" and highlight things for him to read. His expectations are very unrealistic :(

[bolt.]

I'll be honest- I feel a little attacked. You've had some good points, and I do appreciate your honesty, and I'm not exclusively looking for a pat on the back or nice fluffy flowers, but geez- I'm brand new at this, I'm completely 100% alone in this IRL, and I'm looking for some help, support, and ideas. Don't get me wrong- I'm definitely willing to take a look in the mirror. I'm willing to admit it when I'm wrong and work to change it. I just feel a bit like you're picking me apart right now, and it's frustrating.
I'm really sorry. I do have a bluntness problem that has a track record of hitting vulnerable people in an attacking way. I'm not thinking critical thoughts about you, and I really don't mean it the way it has come across.

I've been working hard on my bluntness problem, and I can see that I don't have it 'licked' yet. I want you to know it is my problem, not yours, and that you are not the only person to have experienced my writing in an attacking way.

Genuinely sorry.

Definitely going to keep working on it.

(I hope to see you in the Theology room soon.)

[PaperMomma]

Well that was rough, though not as rough as last night since DH is working tonight.


I laid in bed with her for 40 frustrating minutes. The worst part wasn't the crying and tossing and turning- it was her saying over and over that she didn't want me, she wanted Daddy. :cry I know she's probably feeling insecure about their relationship after last night, but it still hurt my heart to hear that.


After 40 minutes, I brought her out to the living room and rocked her in the rocking chair, where she finally fell asleep. :phew



So...... rocking her to sleep, but without a paci. Is that a step forward, or back? I feel like it's a step back- it's been 2 years since I've needed to rock her to sleep. What do y'all think?




I would encourage you to get some Ames and Ilg's "Your . . . Year Old" and highlight things for him to read. His expectations are very unrealistic :(

That's a good idea. If I could get him to read it- he doesn't read much.


My plan the next time I talk to him about this is to lay out these 3 simple points:

1. She can go to sleep on her own, with a paci, in 5 minutes.
2. Without a paci, and even with someone laying with her, it takes her between 45 minutes and 2.5 hours to go to sleep.
3. Lets not make that more stressful for her by expecting her to spend that time alone, at 3 years old, and also by adding spankings to the mix.

I'm really sorry. I do have a bluntness problem that has a track record of hitting vulnerable people in an attacking way. I'm not thinking critical thoughts about you, and I really don't mean it the way it has come across.

I've been working hard on my bluntness problem, and I can see that I don't have it 'licked' yet. I want you to know it is my problem, not yours, and that you are not the only person to have experienced my writing in an attacking way.

Genuinely sorry.

Definitely going to keep working on it.

(I hope to see you in the Theology room soon.)


Thank you. :heart Apology totally accepted and appreciated. :)

[kiloyd]

I would encourage you to get some Ames and Ilg's "Your . . . Year Old" and highlight things for him to read. His expectations are very unrealistic :(

:yes good idea!

[luvinmama]

Instead of viewing "rocking to sleep" a step back, I'd try and change that thought pattern to "what we need to do to help her transition without a paci"....

I think if you start to view rocking her to sleep as a step backward, it's only going to add to the frustration you are already experiencing.

For me, parenting my 3 y/o DD to sleep is entirely a mental game--on my part--and I have to keep things positive in my head. And I still love to rock my dd to sleep sometimes. :shifty :heart

[kiloyd]

woo!! She can go to sleep with a paci in 5 min?! But takes an hour without? How dumb is he? (I mean that in the nicest possible way. I would say that about any man.) :) She clearly needs it right now.

Can you tell him it will be only bedtime now? Seriously, he's upset at 5 min. a day? That's crazy!

If we had the same situation you are in, I could see my dh being the exact same way. Wanting to put grown up rules on a 3 yr old. I"m so sorry you are having this disagreement. :hug2

[MarynMunchkins]

I've solo-parented in a marriage where I did everything to protect my kids from spankings (and worse), and I'm single parenting now. If you want some ideas of how to get kids to sleep, I can offer some thoughts. :)

It's hard to be in a marriage and have to compromise. One the nice things about being a single mom is being able to parent my kids the way I want without input or compromise with other people. :shifty

[WingsOfTheMorning]

Sorry it's taken me so long to come back with some ideas.

:hugheart I'm sorry things aren't going smoothly, especially with DH.

I think I'd try telling him that you didn't realize giving up the paci would be so traumatic when you gave him the go ahead to move forward with that when he felt like it. And that now the two of you need to come up with a plan to work on it slowly together. (Or just decide not to do it now, like some posters suggested).

When I started weaning DD1, I cut back very gradually and it's been over several months that we've gotten down to one time a day. Instead of starting with bedtime, I'd suggest working on the other times of day. How do you usually respond when she gets hurt or needs some comfort? If getting the paci is the first thing (like nursing used to be for us), try kisses, snuggles, rocking, getting a favorite blanket or toy. As the crying gets less, then I start trying to distract her by talkign about what we're going to do next like, "Let's go in the kitchen and get a snack/get out some paints" or start saying something silly, tickling her, or smothering her in kisses.

I think the other key is to talk about it. I tell Lydia each time we cut back--"Now we only nurse on one side" or "Now we only nurse for x amount of time" or "Now we only nurse at bedtime and morning time."

:hug2

[klpmommy]

Whether or not it is a step forward or back depends on your end goal. If the goal is no paci, it is a step forward. If the goal is peaceful and quick bedtime, it is a step backwards. Personally, I'm all about the peaceful and easy bedtimes.

Is the only time she uses the paci at bedtime? If she uses it at other times of the day as well I would concentrate on those first if y'all go ahead with paci weaning. :hug

[PaperMomma]

Sorry it's taken me so long to come back with some ideas.

:hugheart I'm sorry things aren't going smoothly, especially with DH.

I think I'd try telling him that you didn't realize giving up the paci would be so traumatic when you gave him the go ahead to move forward with that when he felt like it. And that now the two of you need to come up with a plan to work on it slowly together. (Or just decide not to do it now, like some posters suggested).

When I started weaning DD1, I cut back very gradually and it's been over several months that we've gotten down to one time a day. Instead of starting with bedtime, I'd suggest working on the other times of day. How do you usually respond when she gets hurt or needs some comfort? If getting the paci is the first thing (like nursing used to be for us), try kisses, snuggles, rocking, getting a favorite blanket or toy. As the crying gets less, then I start trying to distract her by talkign about what we're going to do next like, "Let's go in the kitchen and get a snack/get out some paints" or start saying something silly, tickling her, or smothering her in kisses.

:hug2


I think that's part of the problem, at least in his mind. We've tried doing that. We tried a while ago to just give her the paci at bedtime, but haven't been consistent- mostly on my part but partially on his part too.

If something happens during the day, or she gets stressed or tired, she won't give up until she gets that paci. I've tried telling her all those things you suggested, and just keeps crying and saying that only pacis help her feel better. And then I cave.

It took me 20 minutes on Wednesday to calm her down without her paci whenever she got a "bo-bo".


So, yeah, I might offer paci ONLY at bedtime, for real this time, as a compromise if things don't improve quickly. But she's already mostly stopped asking for it during the day, so that's one improvement.

I've solo-parented in a marriage where I did everything to protect my kids from spankings (and worse), and I'm single parenting now. If you want some ideas of how to get kids to sleep, I can offer some thoughts. :)

It's hard to be in a marriage and have to compromise. One the nice things about being a single mom is being able to parent my kids the way I want without input or compromise with other people. :shifty

I suppose that would be one nice thing, huh? :giggle


Whether or not it is a step forward or back depends on your end goal. If the goal is no paci, it is a step forward. If the goal is peaceful and quick bedtime, it is a step backwards. Personally, I'm all about the peaceful and easy bedtimes.

Is the only time she uses the paci at bedtime? If she uses it at other times of the day as well I would concentrate on those first if y'all go ahead with paci weaning. :hug



I think, for the sake of trying to keep the peace with DH, I'm going to keep going forward with this plan. I'm giving it a maximum of a week, and if things haven't settled down by then, I'm going to give her the paci back, ONLY at bedtime.


If within a week things settle down and she learns to go to sleep without a paci in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort from me(especially compared to the 5 minutes it was taking), then fine. If not, then I'm not going on with this for an infinite amount of time- it's me that's having to deal with bedtime every night, it's my only alone time that's being cut into, and I should get to make that final call- especially after being accommodating to DH's wishes.


Does that sound reasonable?

[bolt.]

If within a week things settle down and she learns to go to sleep without a paci in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort from me(especially compared to the 5 minutes it was taking), then fine. If not, then I'm not going on with this for an infinite amount of time- it's me that's having to deal with bedtime every night, it's my only alone time that's being cut into, and I should get to make that final call- especially after being accommodating to DH's wishes.


Does that sound reasonable?
Yes, it sounds very reasonable... though I'd be a bit flexible in counting the 'week' if progress seems to be on the horizon.

You should be able to communicate it to your husband as, "Here's what I've decided..." If it were my situation, I'd add at the end something like, "Becuase the bedtime part of parenting is my job, I feel free to back off from this goal if I want to. It's reasonable that the person doing the work is the one with the final decision about how to do it."

Be prepared for him to suggest that he will take over bedtimes himself in order to accomplish his goals (just that it might happen) and think through a sentence in advance, because it's probably going to be hard to say. I think (jumping to conclusions again) that you might be wanting to say something like, "Because I am uncomfortable with some of your parenting choices, I'm definitely uncomfortable with the idea of those methods being a part of bedtime on a regular basis. I'm not willing to agree with a you-doing-bedtime plan, unless you would like to talk about refraining from using certain techniques."

Don't let him get you fighting: you don't have to defend that your position is reasonable, nor does he have to agree with your opinions. It's all about him recognizing that your opinions exist, that they are firmly held, and that he is not going to be able to shout or shame you out of them. With that goal in mind, keep cool and stick to the line of "I'm not comfortable, and I don't agree." (Unless he seems to genuinely be wanting to find your comfort level and seek your agreement.)

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I think it sounds reasonable.

Do you have an iPod/Phone or a reading light so you could read while you snuggle next to her? That used to be too distracting for my DD, but it works really well now, and I don't get nearly as impatient and angry. With my iPod, I can even lie on my side with her back snuggled into me, and one arm under her head while still reading.

[katiekind]

Sounds like you're pulling together a reasonable strategy.

When I was weaning one of my son's from nursing to sleep, I would let him nurse for a few minutes and then he needed to fall asleep (next to me) the rest of the way without the nursing. I think I would sing a song while he nursed, and when the song was over, nursies went night-night.

I don't know if that would work for her as a way to gradually transition her to falling asleep without it. :think

[PaperMomma]

Just had a good talk with DH. First we talked about the bigger issue of me doing a 180 about how I think about discipline. It's thrown him for a loop, it's a big deal to him(of course it is, he genuinely cares about his kids), and he's frustrated because he married someone who believed the same way he did about discipline- he didn't sign up for this. I acknowledged his frustration but reminded him that while those are valid reasons to be upset, they are not valid reasons to not treat me with respect. :yes


Then he talked about how he was frustrated because he thinks I'm turning into a liberal, and how if we just let our kids do whatever they want they're going to end up like the Occupy Wall Street people (I honestly don't know much about it, but DH is against the protest). He talked about how everyone he knows that has been spanked is thankful for it, and thankful that their parents showed them the right way.

So I talked for a while, and I explained that I'm definitely NOT a fan of just letting your kids do whatever, and that I'm not a liberal and have no plans of becoming one. (No offense meant to anyone who is a liberal:shifty) I freely admitted that I've become permissive with the kids(which I have), and I told him that learning how to not be permissive was the main thing that I'm working on right now. I told him that I definitely believe in discipline, but that I just believe there's a different way to do it, without spanking. He said that made him feel a little better, and I'm really glad I got it out there. I hope he really thinks about it and can understand a little better where I'm coming from.


And now I really need to read read read on here and learn how to GBD without being permissive!!!


Anyway, then we talked about the paci issue, and I told him that I would give it about a week, and if things weren't going good by then that I wanted to discuss giving her the paci back, for real only at bedtime. He said that would be a step back. I explained that I'm the one really affected by this, so I should get the final say. He said that would teach her that if she's persistent that we'll give in. I said that she's definitely not being manipulative, and explained that last night she was completely exhausted and definitely not staying awake because she wanted to or to try to get a paci. I said that if she hasn't learned to fall asleep without it in a week, then she probably does still have a legitimate need to suck, and that's all we'd be acknowledging by giving it back. I told him that I was hoping it wouldn't come to that and that she'd get used to it, but that I was warning him that the paci would be back on the table if things haven't gotten better in 4 or 5 days. He reluctantly agreed.



So, pretty good talk I think. I feel a lot better about things.


Yes, it sounds very reasonable... though I'd be a bit flexible in counting the 'week' if progress seems to be on the horizon.

You should be able to communicate it to your husband as, "Here's what I've decided..." If it were my situation, I'd add at the end something like, "Becuase the bedtime part of parenting is my job, I feel free to back off from this goal if I want to. It's reasonable that the person doing the work is the one with the final decision about how to do it."

Be prepared for him to suggest that he will take over bedtimes himself in order to accomplish his goals (just that it might happen) and think through a sentence in advance, because it's probably going to be hard to say. I think (jumping to conclusions again) that you might be wanting to say something like, "Because I am uncomfortable with some of your parenting choices, I'm definitely uncomfortable with the idea of those methods being a part of bedtime on a regular basis. I'm not willing to agree with a you-doing-bedtime plan, unless you would like to talk about refraining from using certain techniques."

Don't let him get you fighting: you don't have to defend that your position is reasonable, nor does he have to agree with your opinions. It's all about him recognizing that your opinions exist, that they are firmly held, and that he is not going to be able to shout or shame you out of them. With that goal in mind, keep cool and stick to the line of "I'm not comfortable, and I don't agree." (Unless he seems to genuinely be wanting to find your comfort level and seek your agreement.)

I like this. I like boundaries, probably because I didn't have them for so long. :giggle

I think it sounds reasonable.

Do you have an iPod/Phone or a reading light so you could read while you snuggle next to her? That used to be too distracting for my DD, but it works really well now, and I don't get nearly as impatient and angry. With my iPod, I can even lie on my side with her back snuggled into me, and one arm under her head while still reading.


I don't think that would work well. I have my phone, but if I get it out she's just going to want to look at it.

Sounds like you're pulling together a reasonable strategy.

When I was weaning one of my son's from nursing to sleep, I would let him nurse for a few minutes and then he needed to fall asleep (next to me) the rest of the way without the nursing. I think I would sing a song while he nursed, and when the song was over, nursies went night-night.

I don't know if that would work for her as a way to gradually transition her to falling asleep without it. :think


Okay, here's my problem though. Normally, even when she had the paci, I'd lay with her most nights- I just think snuggling someone you love is a nice end to the day. :heart She'd usually try to squirm or talk for a minute or two, but when I'd tell her that she needed to lay still and stop talking, she would, just fine. Then she'd fall right asleep.


The past two nights though, she hasn't been able to lay still. I hesitate to say that she "couldn't", because I don't know if that's completely true or just me being permissive, but I'd think that since she could do fine laying still with the paci, that she's having a hard time calming down enough to lay still without it. It was literally 40 minutes of non-stop squirming last night. She wasn't still until I brought her out to the living room to rock with me. That took a tiny bit of coaxing, but I think by that point she was just so exhausted and ready to relax. Maybe the motion relaxed her?


But my question is that I'm almost positive that if I tried to sit next to her, either on the bed or next to it, she'd be sitting up, getting off the bed, and running out of the room. And honestly I'm not sure how I would stop her from doing that. :scratch Is that something that I should be able to expect from her?





Thanks so much everyone for all the input. Sorry for all the long posts.

[katiekind]

That squirming and stuff is probably her trying to figure out how to focus and relax. Sucking produces that effect--calming, focusing down, relaxing, and the motion of rocking does, too. There are physiological reasons why those things calm and soothe babies/children.

I hope your plan goes well, and I'm SO glad you and your husband had such a good productive discussion. :tu You guys were able to talk about your underlying needs and fears--that is so great!

[PaperMomma]

Oh my goodness. Now she's asking for num num. :-/ Right in front of DH, she's going crazy begging for it. :doh Need to suck much? She hasn't nursed since she was 15 months. I've let her try a couple of times here and there since DS has been born (and DH doesn't know about that:blush), but geez. Now she's begging for it. I turned on a movie to distract her.


DH's response? "Maybe it's time to figure out a way to get him off of it too.":banghead


No way, no how. I will put my foot firmly down on that one. I am NOT weaning my booby loving son at 20 months. :banghead:td

[klpmommy]

i want to come back to this, but R is nursing, A is fussing in arms & I need to check on P&E (periodically) who are cleaning out the car.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I don't think that would work well. I have my phone, but if I get it out she's just going to want to look at it.

ITU. Lydia used to be that way too. I'm not sure why it'd different now.

Okay, here's my problem though. Normally, even when she had the paci, I'd lay with her most nights- I just think snuggling someone you love is a nice end to the day. :heart She'd usually try to squirm or talk for a minute or two, but when I'd tell her that she needed to lay still and stop talking, she would, just fine. Then she'd fall right asleep.

I'm not sure from your description...is she used to falling asleep while she's sucking? If so, I think what KatieKind is suggesting is letting her suck until she's almost asleep (so that it helps calm her), but then take it away before she's completely out and gradually shorten the amount of time she gets it. And to keep everything else the same, the snuggling, etc. This way she still gets the calming effect of the pacifier before trying to attempt actually falling asleep without it. But every child is different in how ready they are for an approach like this. Maybe just something to keep in mind if you end up giving it back to her this time and trying to wean her off it again later.

[PaperMomma]

I'm so excited!!! DH agreed to let her have it back!!!!


After the num num incident, I sent him this message on FB(he had left again at that point):

If she's resorting to asking for num num, maybe she does still have a legitimate need to suck. It's not unheard of for a kid her age to still have that.

This says:
"Little by little, most children stop on their own between ages 3 and 6."
and
"Thumb-sucking in children younger than 4 is usually not a problem. Children who suck their thumbs frequently or with great intensity after the age of 4 or 5 or those who continue to suck their thumbs after age 5 are at risk for dental or speech problems."

http://children.webmd.com/tc/thumb-sucking-topic-overview


I'm going ahead with night 3 tonight like we planned, I just want you to please read this and see what you think about it.....


And he texted me and basically said that he was surprised I didn't research it first(cause I research EVERYTHING), that I was the one that said that 3 was too old (did I say that? :shrug3), and that we could let her have it back at bedtime if she agreed to only at bedtime and to not ask for num nums anymore. (I think that really freaked him out:giggle)




:phew:phew:phew I'm so relieved. I was starting to get really upset about it all. And I'm glad that even though we got off to a really rough start with this situation, DH and I were able to end on a good note, with a mutual decision that we're both comfortable with, and in the process have some good communication about where we are right now. That's always a good thing.







ITU. Lydia used to be that way too. I'm not sure why it'd different now.



I'm not sure from your description...is she used to falling asleep while she's sucking? If so, I think what KatieKind is suggesting is letting her suck until she's almost asleep (so that it helps calm her), but then take it away before she's completely out and gradually shorten the amount of time she gets it. And to keep everything else the same, the snuggling, etc. This way she still gets the calming effect of the pacifier before trying to attempt actually falling asleep without it. But every child is different in how ready they are for an approach like this. Maybe just something to keep in mind if you end up giving it back to her this time and trying to wean her off it again later.

(ETA: Yes, she's definitely falling asleep while sucking.)
Yes, I will definitely keep this in mind. Might think about trying this closer to her 4th birthday if she's still super attached. And maybe not, who knows.




Thank you so much guys for all the support and ideas. :heart

[staceylayne]

:phew:phew:phew I'm so relieved. I was starting to get really upset about it all. And I'm glad that even though we got off to a really rough start with this situation, DH and I were able to end on a good note, with a mutual decision that we're both comfortable with, and in the process have some good communication about where we are right now. That's always a good thing.



I'm so glad of this for you! :heart

I know that I'm time you'll find your way as you continue learning to shrug off that old punitive dynamic while still holding firm, healthy boundaries for your children. I'm early in the process as well and GCM and these women have been so very valuable to me. :GCM

[bolt.]

I'm glad you are having a meeting of the minds, and I'm really glad that you are both showing a (reluctant) willingness to really consider each other's values and honour them in your actions.

I'm also really glad that you are no longer under pressure dealing with a hard line that's not your own value on this issue. Lighter pressure will allow you both to do things more reasonably and naturally.

I'm sure your affirmation that you recognize that you have been (at times) permissive relieves a lot of his anxiety. A line that can work well with a person 'OK' with spanking can be something like, "It's our obligation to discipline and raise our child. I feel that if that can be done well without spanking, it is the compassionate and gracious thing to do -- to at least try, and try hard. If it can't be done without spanking, I guess I might have to face that -- but according to my research, it can be done, and I'm not going to give up on that possibility easily."

[katiekind]

But every child is different in how ready they are for an approach like this.

Ain't that the truth!

[kiloyd]

I would just give it back at bedtime and for a week leave it alone. SHe's been through enough the past few nights. THen do the idea of taking it when she's almost asleep.

Before dh and I got married I was totally 100% for spanking.....and then I had a baby. Yep, things change once you actually become a parent.

If you are the one putting her to bed then dh should have no say at all. When my first was 11.5 mo, my dh said it was time to wean him. :jawdrop "because he was almost one". I went on to nurse him for 2 1/2 yrs. But by 18 mo was down to only nap and bed and if he got hurt. I was the one putting ds to bed.

And oh my goodness!!! You are not teaching her that if she is persistent you will give in! men! She clearly has a need, seriously 5 min to fall asleep with it?! Um, yes, she NEEDS it.

You could let her have it back, just relax for a week then start some kind of time limit, like the taking it out when she's almost asleep or counting to a certain number or singing a song and then take it out.

To wean from his bedtime nursing, the last to go, I sang 3 verses of Jesus Loves Me and then he had to let go and I laid with him til he fell asleep. Then 2 verses, then 1 verse, then none.

I was where you are when I came to GCM and have grown so much in my parenting but still have far to go. We are so glad you are here!

[tazmom]

I'm glad you and your dh were able to work out an agreement. :)

I just read the article you posted. I was on board with everything except the treatment section. My 5 yo is a serious thumb sucker and I believe it's caused by underlying anxiety. If your dd is still unable to drop the paci by a reasonable age with some gentle nudging or clings to it worse, I would consider the idea that there may be something more going on than a simple habit.