enforcing "you hit, you sit"... power issues

[rebecuna]

Boy, we had a doozie today. He just pushes every single one of my buttons! :ph

Anyway, how can I enforce "you hit, you sit"? He just KEEPS hitting (kicking, throwing things at me, etc.) and refuses to "sit". I actually straddled him on the floor with my hands on his wrists to restrain him today for like 20 minutes b/c every time I was near him he'd hit and every time I walked away he would throw (heavy) things at me or the door (if I closed it to protect myself). I knew that wouldn't really help, but I didn't know what else to do! It wasn't safe for me to be near him without restraining him and he wasn't safe in his room by himself :sad

I really need proactive tools-- right now I feel like I'm just reacting all the time. It's a horrible feeling being on the other side of a closed door just waiting for the inevitable crash of something *else* being thrown against the door. It's like a little script that plays out with every tantrum-- he freaks out and starts hitting, I tell him he needs calm down time and help him (or drag him) to his room, he refuses to stay there and tries to hit some more, I close the door saying I won't let him hurt me, he starts throwing things at the door, I open the door to remove thrown object and tell him he's now lost the privilege of that object, we repeat the throwing/removing until I can't stand listening to it anymore, and then things fall apart... I lose my temper, and have no ability to have "calm down time" myself (when I tell him I need that b/c I'm really upset he just laughs and keeps on). All the while I'm trying to keep the newly-2yo happy (it scares him) and safe. :mad I think I need a new approach.

I told him today we're taking everything out of his room (toys, books, etc.) so he has a safe place to rage-- this is something we did at our old house but when we moved a few months ago we didn't set things back up that way-- I really hoped we were over that. :sigh

Today he started with a bad attitude and I felt intuitively like he might need to cuddle (his temperament is super physical/affectionate-- he never gets tired of games where I wrap my arms and legs around him and he tries to escape) so I asked him to come over and sit on my lap so we could color together and I could hold him. He eagerly jumped up and started to climb *across the table* to get to me-- I immediately said, "You may not be on the table, you need to come around the table to me." He looked at me then continued crawling across the table and onto my lap. I told him he needed to try again. He refused. I told him we weren't going to color until he went back around the table and walked over to me the right way. He refused. I picked him up and carried him back around the table, then walked back to where I had been sitting. Then he freaked out, and for the next 1.5 hours we had a massive tantrum.

It's so frustrating to write posts MONTHS later that are so similar to previous posts... will we ever make progress?!?!

[MarynMunchkins]

:think An hour and half of tantrum really isn't normal at that age. I think you should talk to his doctor about it. If you can, keep a chart for about a month of when and why they happen, and for how long. Additionally, videoing one would be great.

In the meantime, I would definitely create a safe place for him to rage. I've often longed for a padded cell. :shifty Increasing his sensory diet, including body brushing, may help.

How's his regular diet? Is it possible there's a dietary problem that's contributing?

[rebecuna]

We're starting GAPS in the next few weeks... I don't know if it's connected to diet but I'm hopeful it will help.

What's body brushing?

I'm going to try to video one-- good idea. I did talk to the doctor about it last month and she referred me to the "temperament specialists" at our HMO... so far I filled out an online questionnaire but I haven't heard back from anyone.

Points of note: it only happens with me, never DH (which makes DH think I'm not firm enough with him b/c he doesn't respect me). It almost always happens in the early afternoon, and almost always only on school days. He likes school, but seems to have a hard time transitioning to home, even though he's eager to see me/come home when I pick him up. I think he might need rest/cuddle time when he comes home, but we can't usually even make it to that b/c he needs lunch and I have to put the baby down for a nap after that, and by then usually he's already out of sorts. I've started giving him Rescue Remedy when I pick him up from school preventively. Letting him watch TV or play video games while I put the baby down delays it, but doesn't prevent it (I thought maybe he was feeling neglected or bored when he first got home and I was unavailable)

[MarynMunchkins]

What it sounds like - brushing his body with a soft bristled brush. :)

It's often hard to come home from school and behave after behaving all day. Letting Bug use the computer or t.v. first thing helps him destress too. :tu

[ArmsOfLove]

ITA with Mary that this is out of the bounds of normal. My guess is *minimum* food issues. It could be more. Definitely get an evaluation :yes

However, in the meantime, "You hit, you sit" is NOT ever to become a power struggle. The goal is not to force them to sit--it's to get them out of the situation so that you can attend to the one who was hit. Whenever possible prevent the hitting and if a child is in a super-big hitting stage they need to be supervised very closely. I realize he's 5 but how verbal is he? What seems to motivate the hitting? Is it frustration? Difficulty communicating? Enforcing boundaries with immature tactics?

[HomeWithMyBabies]

:think An hour and half of tantrum really isn't normal at that age. I think you should talk to his doctor about it. If you can, keep a chart for about a month of when and why they happen, and for how long. Additionally, videoing one would be great.


Yes that seems beyond normal to me as well. :hug

My oldest was having a very difficult time at that age, afa sensory issues go. We also realized we were dealing with some new food sensitivities as well.

You hit you sit as I understand it is really to interrupt the interaction, make sure the other child is ok and get everyone calmed down. If it's not accomplishing that, don't use it. I didn't with my oldest.

If you decide to go the route of occupational therapy methods, you may want to consult a professional for some of them. This like brushing, certain types of vestibular input and the like can have the opposite effect on some children, and actually agitate or ramp them up instead of relax them.

If it were me, I'd have his lunch on the table or even in the car, to prevent blood sugar issues. Give him something heavy to carry to and from the car after school. Have him use the bathroom immediately upon arriving home, and try to either push the baby's nap back or include your oldest in the quiet time.

I'm sure we can brainstorm some other ideas, but it does seem like something extra is going on.

[rebecuna]

However, in the meantime, "You hit, you sit" is NOT ever to become a power struggle. The goal is not to force them to sit--it's to get them out of the situation so that you can attend to the one who was hit. Whenever possible prevent the hitting and if a child is in a super-big hitting stage they need to be supervised very closely. I realize he's 5 but how verbal is he? What seems to motivate the hitting? Is it frustration? Difficulty communicating? Enforcing boundaries with immature tactics?

He never hits his brother (or anyone else), only me... so I remove him to keep him from hitting me again. Is that appropriate or should I do something else?
He's VERY verbal-- always been advanced verbally, but doesn't communicate much when he's in the middle of a tantrum. He's angry when he hits, which I think comes from not getting what he wants. Usually toward the end of a tantrum when he's able to talk again he'll start shouting, "This whole thing is because you ___ [made me walk around the table when I had already climbed over it, or whatever the situation]. So if you hadn't done that I never would have had a fuss at all!!!" I usually respond by telling him that he's in charge of his actions, and it's okay for him to be angry but it's not okay for him to hit or kick or be destructive. And that I would like to help him be able to calm down. I think he feels out of control, though-- like it's "happening" to him, b/c he never seems able to implement any calming things in the moment. We just wait out the storm. We also talk a lot after/in calm times about what we can do differently the next time he feels that volcano start to explode in his belly, or how we can handle it once it's already exploding. He's decent at coming up with solutions (most recently he recommended "double remedy"), and agreeable with the plan we set up (but not so much when it comes to the next tantrum).

So I guess the first step is to get in touch with the temperament specialists and go from there. :sigh

[Codi]

:hugheart