What do you do when your child keeps saying "No!"

[ReadingMommy]

I would just like to hear from some other mom's about how they handle this. My 3.5 yr old has been disagreeing with/contradicting everything I say, as well as refusing to cooperate with simple tasks that he used to comply with easily. Here are some examples:

Me: "We do not take toys away from Little Sister."
DS: "But we do!"
Me: "No we do not. Let me help you find something else to play with."
DS: "No! I want to play with this!"
Me: "That's Sissie's toy and you may not take it."
DS: "Yes I do take it!"

Or,

Me: "Let's put your shoes on."
DS: "No!!!"
Me: "Yes. Sit down." (guiding him to a chair)
DS: "No!!!" (trying to run away or becoming aggressive when I try to "make it happen")

This kind of stuff has been happening constantly with the littlest things and I'm kind-of "done" with it. I need some responses that will not invite an argument and will let him know that certain things will not be tolerated or are expected of him. Please help! What should be ignored, what should be addressed, and how? Thanks!

[Peridot]

I am typing one armed- but...


Minimus, it is time to xyz.
No! I willnt! (he says for wont. :giggle)
Try again, sir. Momma said we need to xyz- you need to say, 'Oh, ok Mommy'
..... Oh. Okay mommy, I comein'.


:shrug3

[MarynMunchkins]

:lol Kids are literal. If you tell "we don't" when he clearly just did, of course he'll argue with you. :giggle Try "You're not allowed" or "It's unkind to" instead.

The 5 steps can come in handy at this point too. Using lots of "I will help you" at this stage reinforces your authority and helps him until he can master being kind, gentle, and sharing on his own. :)

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I also sometimes say something like, "I'm not going to argue with you. Mama is done talking about XYZ."

I think it's also normal for them to comply easily in certain stages and then not in others. Have you read about disequilibrium yet? 3.5 is a big one, I hear. I know when DD1 hit 2.5 she seemed to go backwards in maturity for a time.

[ReadingMommy]

[QUOTE=MarynMunchkins;4188359]:lol Kids are literal. If you tell "we don't" when he clearly just did, of course he'll argue with you. :giggle Try "You're not allowed" or "It's unkind to" instead.

Hmm. I agree with that...although, I know that no matter what I say it still sounds like this:

Me: "You're not allowed to climb on the table"
DS: "But I am!"

It's almost like he wants to get into a back-and-forth debate about everything, and I don't want to encourage this!

[bolt.]

Me: "We do not take toys away from Little Sister."
DS: "But we do!"
This is an example of 3-year-old precision semantics. He is absolutely correct. Both you and he have, at some point, chosen to take a toy away from LS.

Your response: "That's right, sometimes we do. What I mean is that I don't want you to do it, and if you choose to do it, I will take the toy from you and make you play somewhere else, away from LS."

Me: "No we do not. Let me help you find something else to play with."
DS: "No! I want to play with this!"
Again - he is entirely accurate. He is telling you what he wants. He assumes you are interested in what he wants.

Your response: "I hear that you want to play with this. It's hard when someone else has something you want. It makes you frustrated. Grrr."
DS: "Yes."
You: "I think you can handle feeling frustrated."
DS: "Yes." --> You: "Then you will be OK as LS plays with it. Let me distract you."
DS: "No!" --> You: "If you can't handle being frustrated, I'm going to move you to another play area that won't be so frustrating."

Me: "That's Sissie's toy and you may not take it."
DS: "Yes I do take it!"
He's just wanting clarity. It's obvious to him that he did already take it, and he can't understand your irrational insistence that it didn't happen.

Me: "Let's put your shoes on."
DS: "No!!!"
Me: "Yes. Sit down." (guiding him to a chair)
DS: "No!!!" (trying to run away or becoming aggressive when I try to "make it happen")
When-then (for somewhere he wants to go, when there's some flex-time):

You: "When you have your shoes on, we will be able to go. How about now?"
DS: "No!!!"
You: "You'd rather not go?"
DS: "No shoes!"
You: "No shoes, no go. When you have your shoes on, we will be able to go. How about now?"

I will (for when there is no incentive and/or no flex time)
You: "I am ready to go. Your feet need shoes. Will you put them on or will I?"
DS: "No!!!"
You: "You don't want to. I will put your shoes on. If you will be gentle while I put them on, I have a car treat for you. If you will be aggressive, there will be no car treat."

Proceed with wrestling as usual.

... Oh, and check if the shoes hurt him. I was once mortified to have fought over shoes for weeks before discovering they were too small and quite painful for the poor munchkin. I'd fight painful shoes too!

A 3/4 year old will not under any kind of parenting be brought to understand that "certain things will not be tolerated or are expected of him. He is not functioning as a moral being with a sense of right/good, so he can't process the idea of making undesirable choices (to him) just because they are 'right'.

He is concrete, and there are two ways to teach him.

A) Cause and effect (using repetition): that certain actions always lead to results that are pleasant for him, and other actions just never work out as desired.

B) Procedural teaching: that life just runs certain ways, as naturally as water flows downhill, and there is just one way that things are.

That means that you can teach him that "certain things" don't benefit him at all and don't go anywhere pleasant for him, and you can teach him what actions and words he could try out that might work out better -- but you can't just 'not tolerate' things. You have to decide that he is likely to do all sorts of unpleasant things, and make a plan to teach him that it's wasn't a good strategy... without being incensed at a moral level that he would even try.

Teaching him what's expected of him is easier. Kids learn through play. Play out things that you have expectations about. Explain and model the expected behaviour through toys. Affirm everything, and always teach with cookies (good times are well-remembered, so a happy teaching-play time will be remembered much better than being corrected when he is already upset).

[gardenfreshmama]

Giving choices worked really well with my dd at this age:

Me: "You may not take toys away from Little Sister."
DS: "But we do!"
Me: "No we do not. You have two choices- you may play with this instead, or you may do play dough at the table by yourself."

Or,

Me: "Time to put your shoes on."
DS: "No!!!"
Me: "You have two choices. You may put them on yourself, or you may choose to have mommy put them on for you."

[jujubnme]

[QUOTE=MarynMunchkins;4188359]:lol Kids are literal. If you tell "we don't" when he clearly just did, of course he'll argue with you. :giggle Try "You're not allowed" or "It's unkind to" instead.

Hmm. I agree with that...although, I know that no matter what I say it still sounds like this:

Me: "You're not allowed to climb on the table"
DS: "But I am!"

It's almost like he wants to get into a back-and-forth debate about everything, and I don't want to encourage this!

What if you don't engage the argument, but focus on helping him get to the behavior you want. A playful parenting response:

You: "You're not allowed to climb on the table"
DS: "But I am!"
You: As you go to hold his hand/pick him up... "Do you want me to help you fly off the table like a bird or do you want to jump like a frog to the floor while I hold your hand?" (My ds jumped like a frog with my help A LOT when he was 3.5 :giggle)

or just the standard 5-steps: Will you get down by yourself, or do you need my help?

[Calee]

I understand. I do a combo of what others have suggested.

In your first example, everything he said was true :lol He DOES take her toys, he DOES want her toys, and again, he does take her toys-hey at least he's honest ;)

I'd rephrase. "DS-taking toys is unkind" or "DS-you may not take sister's toys".

For the shoes, I'd stop talking :shifty Say it once-"It's time to put on your shoes". And then put them on. If he runs away/throws a fit about the shoes, that's a little bit of a different problem-but I'd move to do it the FIRST time as you speak it-gives him less chance to escalate-and to run.

So, since you know he is struggling with this, I would minimize what you say, and make sure what you are saying is an actual instruction, not a suggestion/statement.

I totally understand-my three year old does the same :)

[ReadingMommy]

I also sometimes say something like, "I'm not going to argue with you. Mama is done talking about XYZ."

I think it's also normal for them to comply easily in certain stages and then not in others. Have you read about disequilibrium yet? 3.5 is a big one, I hear. I know when DD1 hit 2.5 she seemed to go backwards in maturity for a time.

Thanks...I haven't read much about disequilibrium. I think that's a good response, but he still finds ways to keep debating me. I can picture this:

Me: "I'm not going to argue with you"
DS: "But you are!"
Me: "Mommy's done talking about this"
DS: "No Mommy's not done talking!"

:doh

[WingsOfTheMorning]

It's almost like he wants to get into a back-and-forth debate about everything, and I don't want to encourage this!

DD1 does this too, which is why I say I'm done talking about it. I mean, if she's actually coming up with new ideas and I feel like we're working toward a compromise, then that's fine. But I'm not going to keep discussing it if all she's doing is contradicting me.

Is he more prone to doing this at certain times? I think my DD is more prone to this when she's looking for attention or bored, so if I'm in the mood, sometimes it helps to just do something goofy like tackle her or say something goofy like, "I wish we could climb everything! I wish I could climb to the top of the tree! I'm going to climb into the sky and get the moon!"

Sometimes this makes her giggle and she comes up with her own goofy idea. ;)

[Calee]

Thanks...I haven't read much about disequilibrium. I think that's a good response, but he still finds ways to keep debating me. I can picture this:

Me: "I'm not going to argue with you"
DS: "But you are!"
Me: "Mommy's done talking about this"
DS: "No Mommy's not done talking!"

:doh

Oh yes-he probably will :) That's when you get to be the grownup, and walk away, and stop talking :yes

[WingsOfTheMorning]

Me: "I'm not going to argue with you"
DS: "But you are!"
Me: "Mommy's done talking about this"
DS: "No Mommy's not done talking!"

:doh

;) So that's when I have to force myself to stop talking and walk away (or get goofy like I described above).

[PrincessAnika]

:lol Kids are literal. If you tell "we don't" when he clearly just did, of course he'll argue with you. :giggle Try "You're not allowed" or "It's unkind to" instead.

Hmm. I agree with that...although, I know that no matter what I say it still sounds like this:

Me: "You're not allowed to climb on the table"
DS: "But I am!"

It's almost like he wants to get into a back-and-forth debate about everything, and I don't want to encourage this!

another thing i've been working on is not telling dd1 what she can't/shouldn't do so much as what she can/should do - ex. not 'you can't climb on the barstool' but 'you need to stay on the floor, or you may sit on your little chair' also in cases of needing shoes to go somewhere i try to not give her a chance to argue - a la 'we are leaving now for XYZ. can you put your shoes on by yourself or do you want mommy to help you?'
AFA getting 'no' i will usually let it go the first couple times (aka argue with her :giggle) and then i will script her "you need to say 'yes mommy' and do it" and yes, sometimes i do have to script multiple times while i am helping her do whatever (get down, pick up, get dressed, etc).
:hug

[ReadingMommy]

Is he more prone to doing this at certain times? I think my DD is more prone to this when she's looking for attention or bored,

I think that's probably when he does it too. It happens a lot when I'm trying to get them out the door mid-morning for the gym or errands...but at that point in the day he's usually already been playing for a while, we've done breakfast, and I've been taking time to do chores and get myself ready, dd ready, etc. Hmm. Maybe I can rearrange things a little to get him dressed during a naturally more cooperative time? :think

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------

There are so many good suggestions here to think about. Thank you ladies!!

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

There are so many good suggestions here to think about. Thank you ladies!!:heart

[WingsOfTheMorning]

:hug2 That's one of our hardest times of day too.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

In light of the advice I gave in this thread, I feel the need to share this recent conversation.

Me: Lydia, I asked you a question. You can say "yes" or "no, thank you."
Lydia: I'm not going to argue anymore.
Me: :scratch :doh:giggle