need lots of advice for veg garden *photos in 6 and 8

[believer]

I want to grow vegetables and herbs to eat. I am not really good at growing things though. I can't use the back yard - the dogs will destroy anything. I made a little room in the front gardens and will try some things there. But something is already eating the Cannas that are growing there.
What is an organic type pesticide to stop whatever it is from eating not only the cannas, but whatever I grow there? :shrug3
I want to put a garden on the side of the house. It has a fence blocking it' view from the street, then the a/c units surrounded by too big bushes (I need to trim them a lot) in the back. It is between the houses and slopes down to the middle so water will drain away from the house. Grass grows ok there, so will veggies? It faces north.

I thought I'd just mow it low, and then put black plastic trash bags over the grass, then put some topsoil on it and some metal edging things to hold the dirt in. I am not sure if that will be deep enough or not though.
Does that even sound like it would work?:shrug3
And we have a compost heap - should I put some of that with the dirt - the composted part- not the fresh stuff?:shrug3

We already have the bags, dirt and metal edging and I don't have tons of or much money to spend at all on it. I already bought a few seeds - dill, swiss chard, and yellow squash and I have seeds for basil, tomato, raddish, and a few other things. It won't be a large garden so I won't plant a lot anyway.
I think we have some old green powdered plant food in the shed - miracle grow or something? I am not sure. If not I can buy plant food.

any ideas, suggestions, hints, help

[greengirl19]

is it deer eating the cannas or a bug? cause deer would change everything!

[believer]

It is bugs. We don't have deer here - only rabbits.

[Macky]

Love to help, but your not giving us enough information.

Have you observed what's eating the cannas? If so, what do they look like? What is the pattern of the damage? Where do you live (some pests only live in certain climates). It's a terrible idea to recommend a pesticide to just mass kill all creatures that may or may not be eating your plants. You need to know what it is so you can target it with a specific pesticide (organic or not) or repellent (companion plant or spray) that will hopefully kill that pest only and not the other beneficials in your yard.

Planting on the north side of your house... again, it would be helpful to know where you live. My latitude won't allow me to grow much of anything, never mind veggies, directly on the north side of any building. Just because grass grows somewhere doesn't mean veggies will. There are shade-tolerant grasses out there. No, the black trash bag idea doesn't sound good. You'd have to raise the soil level significantly if you're going to do that and it sounds as if that's not in the plan or budget. Is there some reason you can't just dig up the turf and plant in the soil (will whatever amendments may be needed)? It's really hard to imagine the position of the fence and grade here, too. I think this is a case where a picture's worth a thousand words.

"Old green powdered plant food" doesn't give us any usable info. If it's old enough that you can't read the label, throw it out and buy new. You can do damage to the soil and your plants by putting the wrong ratio of nutrients on your garden.

I don't mean to be a wet blanket. :hug I just want to talk reality so you won't invest a lot into an area that may never be able to grow decent veggies. If it were me, I'd invest my bit of money instead in a short fence in the south-facing back yard to keep the dogs out of a proper, in-ground garden area. Planting in the ground is far more economical if you have even halfway decent dirt and a southern exposure means you can grow practically anything you want. :tu

If you're not "good at growing things" then you definitely don't need to throw more things against you by trying to grow sun-loving vegetables on a north wall in too-shallow soil.

[believer]

thanks. I will try to take photos and see how much sun it actually gets. Our backyard has a pool on the south side, so that is out for a garden. The back yard part faces east and the front yard faces west. We are in north tx, so I don't think the north facing side would be too bad, but not sure. As far as what is eating holes in the canna leaves - I have no idea. :shrug3 I kind of thought the trash bag idea might need more dirt over it than we have.
I will get back with photos in the next day or two.

[believer]

ok, here are some photos of the area.
the first two are taken in the morning:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea001.jpg
and it was overcast the rest of the day, but these two are from the afternoon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea004.jpg

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 AM ----------

the bushes opposite from the fence are way overgrown and we will cut them down to about half of their size so they will not create as much shade.

[kiloyd]

I would give it a try, why not.:shrug3 I'm still learning the gardening thing too.

I don't know what cannas are? Do you have a garden store in town? I'd ask them what they recommend.

[believer]

Here are my cannas - they are small now - they will grow to about 5 feet or taller and will have pretty flowers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea005.jpg
and a close up of the holes chewed out of one
it reminds me of when The Very Hungry Caterpillar chewed through one nice green leaf
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/dbjorn/gardenarea006.jpg
I have not seen any caterpillars, but I don't sit out there looking for bugs.
I have seen ants and slugs (the slugs get in the cat's water bowl)

This is what cannas look like full grown - these are not mine - just a photo I found online:
http://www.sahajayoga.com.au/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/flowerscannaslr.jpg (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoYCUb7dNjEEAfKGjzbkF/SIG=1347h6k24/EXP=1303896084/**http%3a//www.sahajayoga.com.au/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/flowerscannaslr.jpg)

[Macky]

Good pics... thanks! :)

My first concern would be why there's such a dramatic grade that close to the house. Is there a basement? I'm not sure I'd want to remove the grass on such a dramatic grade like that as it's probably there to prevent erosion. Annual vegetables will not provide any erosion control and I would worry about that area falling apart over time and causing problems for the house. A few veggies aren't worth damage to the house, imho.

What you could definitely do there is plant ground covers that can both beautify and provide the same erosion control as the grass. There are gorgeous ones out there that have pretty flowers and spread all over the place. Some herbs would fit the bill here, too... off the top of my head, thyme and oregano both have root systems that keep soil in place (there must be more, too).

Once you have a ground cover of some sort in there, you could add a container garden. Either dig in to the soil just enough to make a level area for the pots to sit or use something like this (http://www.arizonapottery.com/item.asp?iid=5919) to level them on the grade (that site was just a random google result). You can add pots as you can afford to. I would stay away from terracing that site as I would assume that it would encourage water to hang around your foundation. Obviously whoever built that home had some reason to believe that sort of grade was necessary around it. :shrug

So, do you own the flat area at the base of the grade? If so, another shot from the other direction would be good. Does that flat area become waterlogged?

As far as the cannas, they're a tropical plant that I can't grow here in the frosty north (:giggle). I did google "canna pests" for you, though, and it looks like you might have leaf rollers there. According to this (http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1315/) page (scroll down to the Pests section), they chew holes in a relatively straight line, just like in your pic. Google a bit more about them and see if they match what's going on over there. HTH! Once you decide if that's your pest, you can look into the safest way to eradicate them. I can't help you there... all I can do is google (since I don't grow them) and you can do that yourself. :)

ETA: Just re-read your post before I left and googled "canna slug damage". Those sorts of holes could definitely be slugs, too. There are all sorts of safe ways to get rid of slugs. :tu There's lots of information out there on how to make beer traps and they're completely safe for everything but the slug; just make sure to construct the trap properly or they'll just be attracted to it and not get trapped in it. Diatomaceous earth (get the kind specifically for gardens, not stuff for other uses) is an organic option, too. If you want to hang out and pour salt on them, you can do that, too, but it's not a task for the faint of heart.

Photos make posts like this so much easier! :phew :)

[believer]

Thank you very much! I think I can treat the cannas now - I will take a good look at them and see what I can do about them.
I just trimmed the giant bushes around the a/c units - I should have worn something long sleeved. My arms are all scratched up.
We don't have basements here in N. Tx - the soil won't allow it.
You may be right about the sloped area not being good for a garden though. :sigh. I will keep looking for other areas.