Trying to get my perennials to thrive- bagged soil or fertilizer options?

[AngelaVA]

I planted a lot of perennials about 3 years ago, mostly hostas and lilies. They keep coming back but aren't thriving or spreading out, I think because our soil is really bad, lots of clay and hard packed. I put some bagged soil in when I planted them and I have added some compost in past years but we are kind of uphill so I think that combined with the hard pack makes some of it erode into the ditch and the vacant lot next to us. I was considering digging the all the plants up and renting a rototiller and then getting a truckload of topsoil to till in but it's more of a project that I can afford or handle this year so I'm trying one more year to get them going. Currently I am using a small shovel and hoe and trying to loosen up the soil all around them without damaging the roots. I would like to add something to the soil that's non chemical to try to help them grow a bit - what would be best to try?

[Macky]

I'm not the one to answer flower questions (I'm the veggie gal ;)), but I did want to address your comment on "chemical" fertilizer.

Synthetic fertilizers are created through chemical processes, but they are refined from natural sources. Nitrogen is drawn from the air by the Haber-Bosch process. Phosphorous is refined from crushed rock. Potassium comes from mined salts. (I happen to live in Saskatchewan, the largest potash producer in the world, accounting for 25 to 30 per cent of world potash production. If you find a rock that looks like this (http://www.spec2000.net/text109fp/Potash0.jpg) just lying around in Saskatchewan, pick it up and lick it; if it's salty, it's potash.) While not always environmentally responsible to produce, they're hardly foreign substances. I have no issue using them when the situation warrants. There's nothing there that will harm you unless you use them wildly and excessively, which is extremely unlikely.

Many synthetic fertilizers are engineered to provide micronutrients for specific crops and to do so relatively quickly. What they don't do is improve your soil or provide a long-term food source. When you use them, you're feeding the plant, not the soil.

Organic fertilizers aren't all sunshine and roses either. Peat is renewable over hundreds of years, but not at the rate we currently use it. Organic nitrogen sources (manure, etc.), when used improperly, often tie up nitrogen in the soil before they release it to the plants. Bone meal can be contaminated with pathogens. Rock powders can be mined in environmentally irresponsible ways, just like the synthetic fertilizer sources.

Hope someone else can answer your flower question. :)

[AngelaVA]

I'm not the one to answer flower questions (I'm the veggie gal ;)), but I did want to address your comment on "chemical" fertilizer.

Synthetic fertilizers are created through chemical processes, but they are refined from natural sources. Nitrogen is drawn from the air by the Haber-Bosch process. Phosphorous is refined from crushed rock. Potassium comes from mined salts. (I happen to live in Saskatchewan, the largest potash producer in the world, accounting for 25 to 30 per cent of world potash production. If you find a rock that looks like this (http://www.spec2000.net/text109fp/Potash0.jpg) just lying around in Saskatchewan, pick it up and lick it; if it's salty, it's potash.) While not always environmentally responsible to produce, they're hardly foreign substances. I have no issue using them when the situation warrants. There's nothing there that will harm you unless you use them wildly and excessively, which is extremely unlikely.

Many synthetic fertilizers are engineered to provide micronutrients for specific crops and to do so relatively quickly. What they don't do is improve your soil or provide a long-term food source. When you use them, you're feeding the plant, not the soil.

Organic fertilizers aren't all sunshine and roses either. Peat is renewable over hundreds of years, but not at the rate we currently use it. Organic nitrogen sources (manure, etc.), when used improperly, often tie up nitrogen in the soil before they release it to the plants. Bone meal can be contaminated with pathogens. Rock powders can be mined in environmentally irresponsible ways, just like the synthetic fertilizer sources.

Hope someone else can answer your flower question. :)

Interesting...I was looking at peat moss mixed with compost, I was mostly concerned re the chemicals because of my kids playing in the yard.

[Macky]

We're talking fertilizer here, though, not pesticides. Fertilizers – even synthetic ones – are refined from natural sources and there is no danger to anyone – children and pets included – using them in the moderate quantities that a backyard gardener would be. You're more likely to pick up a bad bacteria from mismanaged compost than anything harmful from a refined, synthetic fertilizer.

Herbicides and pesticides are a whole different ballgame. In that case as well, though, a few remedies labeled as organic are actually more dangerous than their synthetic counterparts (rotenone is a biggie).

If I were you (if you don't get any reply here, though I hope you do!), I'd google "(plant name) fertilizer" and see what you learn there. Find organic sources for the suggested nutrients (it will likely be a combination of products) and away you go. :) If that's too expensive, though, you really really really are not going to hurt anyone including your very young children by using moderate application(s) of water-soluble synthetic fertilizers. They're concentrated, not toxic.

[canadiyank]

We have probs here with clay soil, too. What I've had to resort to is digging them up. Royal pain in the rear, but the hardpacked clay just will *not* let them spread. I dig them up, shake off the soil, dig a HUGE hole around it, mix in some potting soil in the hole and then mix up the clay in it. Replant. Bah. But I learned that so now I'm much more careful when I plant about amending the soil.

I found a product that is for clay soil that you mix 50/50 to help, but I only bought one bag and can't remember what it's called. You should be able to find it at the garden center with the soil amendments.

[Macky]

Organic matter will help clay (we have clay, too, sigh). You can mix in compost or manure or whatever. This will improve the tilth, but not add much in nutrients (though if you improve the tilth, you will usually mprove the accesibility of the nutrients already in the clay soil to the plants).

I've heard the addition of gypsum can help break up clay soil, but I haven't been able to find it here. Worth a consult with your local greenhouse, though. If you try it, let me know if it works!

[AngelaVA]

I dug them up and mixed in compost, peat moss and plant food. I'm hoping it helps at least a little.

I'm also composting more and adding this gradually to the soil as it's ready.