Do you think this garden plan will work?

[LisaMarie]

I have 2 gardens. A mini one in my backyard (on the right) and a larger one at my inlaws (the big square on the left). I've been planning it all out today. Here's the picture of the plan. Do you think it would work ?

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217736_10150556238190226_882245225_18162094_191259 5_n.jpg

I have a trellis that runs down the cucumbers and melons, etc that I used last year. I guess I'm really wondering about the idea of putting melons beside pumpkins - will that work or is that a no-no?

Wanted to try sunflowers as a pollinating attrator.

Going to try a bean teepee too (circle at the top) - but not sure if that will block out the sun for the corn.... idk.

Feedback? :D

[Macky]

Need more info. :)

1. Which way is south on your map?

2. What sort of area is represented by each square – 1 by 1 foot, 2 by 2 feet or ???

3. Does each vegetable picture represent one plant or does it just denote that that area will be planted with that vegetable at the appropriate spacing.

For example, if the squash area represents four square feet and you're planting four squash plants there (on a trellis?), then whether or not that will work depends on what type of squash you're growing. Summer squash, sure. Winter squash, not so much. A legend would help.

[LisaMarie]

Oh. Ok. Didn't think of all that hehe.

The left half of the pic is the one I'm most thinking of. Don't worry about the right side - it's mostly just container gardening in my own backyard. :)

On the left:

1) South is on the righthand side of the garden.

2) Each square is 1x1 as in Square foot gardening style.

3) Just denotation of produce in each square. I know that I'll be putting 1 pumpkin and 1 squash for every 2 squares.

This is a VERY open area so the garden gets direct sun all day with no shaded periods.

I was reading somewhere today that sunflowers can't share soil with other plants, so I guess I either need to give them their own box (not sure how many should go in each sq.ft. yet). I'm going to maybe double the pumpkin/melon attempts.

I'm thinking to changing the placements of the corn and the pole beans so the poles, etc don't block out the corn. I also need to come up with a way to help the corn stay upright better. :)

Just excited and rambling hehe. Thanks!

[Macky]

With all that sun, you're just gonna cruise in the garden this summer! :tu

I've never heard of not planting sunflowers with other plants :no and I know many people who do just that. I'm interested to see what you read, if you come across it again.

Winter squash (like pumpkin) needs way more area than two square feet. Even bush type pumpkins need more than that just for vines. Summer squash can be crowded like that, though. You've got your vines running on the south side, which is absolutely correct as they grow low to the ground... except that you're running them up trellises, which makes them taller and makes most gardeners move them to the other side of the garden (tallest to the north and shortest to the south is the rule).

A pole bean teepee casts surprisingly little shade; a row trellis is much more of a concern. I wouldn't worry where a single teepee is located in that layout.

Why is your corn falling down? It shouldn't. Corn should be lightly hilled when it's very young, but you have to be careful as they grow because they have very, very shallow root systems. If you're working the soil a lot around them, perhaps you've been severing roots that were keeping them firmly upright?

Corn pollinates best with a minimum of four rows. It looks like you have two rows of corn planned there? It would be better to plant four shorter rows than two longer rows if you can. If not, try to hand pollinate as backup. I can see the corn and bush beans sharing the biggest bed in the centre there (beans on the outside and corn in the middle). Corn is a heavy feeder and beans would help keep the soil nitrogen rich.

Tomatoes and potatoes are related in the sense that they are both attacked by the same diseases. They are usually kept separate as much as possible. Blight has been making the rounds in our area and has yet to affect us (knock on wood). Can you put the potato bin up in the south-east corner where the squash is and swap the squash over?

Tomatoes and peppers can share beds because they are both nightshades and are grown in pretty much the same way (same fertilizer needs, water needs, etc.). They say to keep the cabbages away from all nightshades, but I forget why.

Melons and pumpkins grow fine together. :) If you want to save seed for next year, though, I have no idea if they cross-pollinate because I'm unfamiliar with melons (it's not hot enough for long enough in my garden). Here is a link (http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/87-043.htm#Watermelon%20and%20Cucumber) that may or may not help (no time to read it through totally) with regards to what crosses with what there. The flowers are so similar that I would think they do, but it sounds like some may not. :shrug

If something I said doesn't make sense, it's because I'm not used to thinking in square-foot terms. ;)

[LisaMarie]

Re: Trellis. It's only like 5 ft at most. I didn't even think of placement issues last year as there's so much sun, it didn't seem to matter? Unfortunately, I don't *think* I can move the boxes this year as they are all filled with soil etc. I can move the trellis, although it's a pain. Would it be better for me to just not train them up the trellis and leave them on the ground - trying to contain them to the section they are intended to be in? Should I put the melons in teh 2x2 square and put squash/pumpkins together?

Corn: It's 4 stalks a square, so it would be 4 deep. I had put it in the 3x3 square last year, but it was too hard to get into the middle to do anything useful. Re: Falling over, it didn't actually (until the very end when a racoon decided to climb my fence and deal with it! haha). But it did have a lot of wind and people commented that maybe that's why it didn't produce a lot? We only managed to get 2 full ears. I was thinking of trying to find a way to make it stand up straighter to keep the pollinating w/e where it belongs haha.

Thanks for the info on the potates/tomatoes. I didn't know that. Planning to try growing potatoes in a black garbage can, essentially enclosed. Do you think that will matter? I will see where else we can put it! :D

Thanks SO much for the help! This is only year #2 and I'm still learning so much. :D

[Macky]

If you're getting that much sun, then I wouldn't worry about placement there either. I'd still train them up the trellis if that's working for you! I have to say, I've never seen a trellised pumpkin, so you'll have to post a photo in the fall. You must have awfully strong trellises! :) As far as swapping the melons and squash, I can't say. For me it would depend on what would have potential to cross, if I wanted to save seed. If two varieties can cross, they need to be separated as much as possible.

Oh, dear... the raccoons surely didn't help! :( Four corn stalks per square foot?! That would be why you got low yield, most likely. I plant for one stalk per foot in rows two feet apart... that would give each plant two square feet of growing room... eight times the space yours are getting. Even given intensive square-foot fertilization methods, that's still really crowded, imo. With so few numbers of plants, too, you really should try to hand pollinate (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cornucop/msg0211070721533.html) to get those full ears. Give the plants more space (less competition) and they'll be able to put down firmer roots and not fall down. Do your beds have bottoms or do can the roots go into the ground? Most of the root system of a corn stalk is really shallow, but some roots go straight down as well and help with stability. If the roots can't go down a couple of feet at least, the tall stalk may fall.

Blight is a fungal infection that's spread by spores, so the wind can carry it; the plants don't have to share soil. If blight isn't a problem there, then don't worry about it. It's just at the forefront in my mind right now because my MIL is currently battling it. Once it's in your soil, it's really hard to get rid of. Blight can enter your garden by wind, contact (I don't wear the same clothes or shoes in my own garden if I've worn them in MIL's garden) or by using uncertified seed potatoes that carries it. But again, if you're not going to come in contact with it there – even visiting other gardens – then don't worry.

If you have hornworms, separate your corn and tomatoes, too. You've already got a bit of separate there, so I didn't mention it before.

[LisaMarie]

Ok, so I thought about everything you suggested and redrew my garden idea. Does this look better? (pending finances to make the rest of the boxes I want and how much help I get moving the fence we built last year - haha).

I can use the trellis for the pole bean poles, etc. Thought about the corn and realized tucking the corn in the middle might protect it more from the wildlife?

You have no idea how much I appreciate this feedback and how excited I'm getting! :D :heart
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/208306_10150559593920226_882245225_18202622_823065 1_n.jpg

[Macky]

Did you swap around the boxes at the top? I think you could leave them where they are (if they're already constructed and filled) and switch the crops around within them. Then you don't have to move that trellis either... correct? Meaning, you could have the tomatoes and peppers in ten square feet in the northeast corner, the squash where it was before in the southeast corner and the cabbage in the middle.

I think your corn will be much happier in the middle there. :tu I would make four rows of five plants each... 12-inch plant spacing within the row with 16 inches between rows. With really good attention to feeding, I think you can crowd them at least that much, but no more (imho). Still try to hand pollinate.

How strong is that trellis on the south side? If the watermelon and pumpkins are heavy on the one side, would it pull the trellis over? I wonder if you put the watermelon on the south side of the trellis (I believe they need more heat) and the pumpkin on the north side, they might balance each other. If you do that, put them on the west end of that trellis so the in case you get stray vines on the ground (they can go into the corner) and group the pole beans on the east end. Both beans and cucumbers should NEVER be touched or rustled when they're wet (it spreads disease), so that groups them so you can just avoid that spot entirely when it's just rained, etc. Is that a gate or a door on the west side? Watch when you're passing through that you don't brush against the bush beans when they're wet as well.

You'll have to post pictures for us when the garden's up! :)

[LisaMarie]

The top 3 boxes are additions this year - I haven't built them yet, so they have some flexibility.

I actually decided to do exactly what you suggested about the melon/pumpkins, but had already saved the picture and was too lazy to take another screenshot hehe. :) Thanks for the confirmation!

The gate is just a place I can open the chicken wire to get in. It might not actually go there, but it was just to remind myself to leave a space hehe. Good points on it all.

So excited :D

[Macky]

So that's a chicken wire fence going all the way around? Well, then... you need to be planting climbing peas or flowers or something all the way around there as well. ;)

I think you're good to go!

[LisaMarie]

you need to be planting climbing peas or flowers or something

...for pretty factor? It's kinda hard b/c it's my inlaws place lol. It's on the back corner grassy section, but I can definitely look for some. :D hehe

[Macky]

To EAT, woman... to EAT!!! :giggle The fence is just another trellis; the only thing you need to do is find a variety with a vine height that matches the height of your fence (there's a lot of variation between varieties).

[LisaMarie]

:giggle