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View Full Version : Criminal complaint released in the Lori/Timothy/Andrea Wick abuse scandal


Wonder Woman
04-05-2011, 05:43 AM
http://therealrebeccadiamond.com/read-it-and-weep - I've posted a copy on my blog. Very, very sensitive :cry

bec28
04-05-2011, 05:56 AM
Thank you for posting this story. I won't be supporting Lori Wick any more. Well, I don't usuLly buy books anyway, but I won't be borrowing herbooks from the library anymore either. That is just so sad what has happened to those children. They are just babies :bheart :sick

ShiriChayim
04-05-2011, 06:32 AM
:sick

katiekind
04-05-2011, 06:38 AM
I am sick to my stomach. God pour tenderest mercy on those poor children and lift the veil of deception in the minds of the adults. That is horrible.

Llee
04-05-2011, 06:55 AM
Again, thank you for posting about this in a way that I can share on FB.

littleowl
04-05-2011, 07:10 AM
I think it's time to make spanking against the law in the United States.

newday
04-05-2011, 07:29 AM
:cry
that is just so heartbreaking.

Oddly, what I found the worst was that the father would read the Moses story and then leave his daughter alone when it was too sad for her. :bheart :(

rjy9343
04-05-2011, 08:05 AM
That she tried to comfort her father so he did not get a spanking is one of the saddest things I have ever read. :bheart

gpsings
04-05-2011, 09:24 AM
:cry

I really hope these children will find justice and healing.

Niphredil
04-05-2011, 09:36 AM
:bheart :sick

Blue Aurora
04-05-2011, 09:43 AM
That poor baby girl. I have a naive question to ask though...why are they able to to charge this couple? So many Christians spank starting a little before a year and no charges are made so why is it possible in this case?

mamamonkey
04-05-2011, 09:46 AM
:bheart

Wonder Woman
04-05-2011, 09:50 AM
That poor baby girl. I have a naive question to ask though...why are they able to to charge this couple? So many Christians spank starting a little before a year and no charges are made so why is it possible in this case?

That's what is so ground-breaking about this, and why I'm praying so hard that it's successfully prosecuted :pray4 It's setting case precedent to legally protect children :pray4

Drew
04-05-2011, 10:02 AM
Well that's disgusting.

I am sick to my stomach. God pour tenderest mercy on those poor children and lift the veil of deception in the minds of the adults. That is horrible.

You are a much better person than I. While you are praying for them to have the veil of deception lifted I'm wanting to take a rod to them myself. :shifty

forty-two
04-05-2011, 10:09 AM
The thing that has been so shocking to me in all this is how open all the members are being about spanking babies with rods :jawdrop - I mean, they seem to have *no idea* how it is perceived by others, no idea that most people consider that abuse :sick. I just don't get it - I mean, even the Pearls & co. understand how that sort of thing is perceived by "outsiders" :-/, and advise that you are careful amongst people "who don't understand (so-called) godly discipline" :mad. But everything I've seen from this case indicates that the people charged have been amazingly open about what they do, with no apparent recognition that anyone would have a problem with it :bheart.

Sanveann
04-05-2011, 10:51 AM
Oh my goodness -- that is just stomach-turning. My youngest (well, youngest who's not in utero) is 27 months, and I can't even IMAGINE spanking him. I have several friends with babies who are around 9-11 months right now as well, and it's just positively unthinkable to imagine anyone hitting those sweet little ones with a stick.

DoulaClara
04-05-2011, 10:54 AM
Did anyone ever have any luck with contacting the publishers?

Wonder Woman
04-05-2011, 10:59 AM
Alexis - Hi! I haven't seen you around for a while :heart

DC - no response to my letter. I'm thinking about calling them...

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

But everything I've seen from this case indicates that the people charged have been amazingly open about what they do, with no apparent recognition that anyone would have a problem with it :bheart.

Someone I know quite well was very open about the fact that she grabbed a new church member's autistic child and hit him for not following instructions - and was baffled when I expressed anger. When you are enmeshed/brainwashed to that degree, you truly are unable to see how anyone else could have a problem with it :shiver :sick

Atarah
04-05-2011, 11:10 AM
Did anyone ever have any luck with contacting the publishers?

I was able to send a note on the "contact us" page, but never received a reply. :shrug


Thank you for sharing this, Rebecca.

:pray2 for justice

nadezhda
04-05-2011, 11:10 AM
:pray4 they are persecuted to the fullest extent.

And...does anyone else find it painfully ironic that he graduated from Grace Theological Seminary? :cry He has no concept...:bheart That poor little girl.

RealLifeMama
04-05-2011, 11:20 AM
I find this very disturbing.
Of course, I do not advocate parents hitting babies with wooden dowels. Not at all.
But, what I find disconcerting is different than the disturbing reality that there are parents that use the rod for discipline.
First, it sounds like the daughter of the author Lori Wick is the one charged, not the Author, am I reading that correctly? (I don't really know who Lori Wick is, and I don't care. )

Secondly, it looks like the sherrif's office was trying to build a case against the church for whatever reason. 450 pages of documentation against them? And all the references to the split? It sounds like a witch hunt for the person in charge of that church to me, with the person that was left behind leading it. I dunno. It all sounds "off" and a horrible precedent to set to me.

Wonder Woman
04-05-2011, 11:22 AM
the son and daughter in law are being charged. The connection to Lori? Her money paid for the 'church', and the abuse occurred in her home :think
I don't care what motive is behind it, frankly - I'm really, really glad that hitting infants is being recognized as abuse :shrug

ETA: My husband is a law enforcement officer. I assure you that the level of documentation required for any investigation is staggering - 450 pages isn't nearly 'witch hunt' level :shifty :giggle

nadezhda
04-05-2011, 11:24 AM
From what I gathered, this type of "discipline" is taught & actively promoted by the leader who took over after the split, which is why there is investigation into the church.

Myrtle
04-05-2011, 11:48 AM
When you are enmeshed/brainwashed to that degree, you truly are unable to see how anyone else could have a problem with it :shiver :sick

Or they think others only have a problem with it b/c they don't believe the Bible. That's what I've run into. I grew up in a culture of spanking, but I didn't know anyone who spanked babies in real life until recently. I was appalled. Even coming from a background of being spanked and not having a problem with it, even planning to spank my own children (until I ran into GCM :yes), I had never run into the teaching of spanking babies. I've only read Tripp's book, but there were things in there that were so twisted (he actually advocates spankings as young as 8 months, not 18 months) that it baffled me that people I considered intelligent, normal people didn't run screamin from his teachings. :hunh Instead, they quoted them to me and told me the reason I didn't agree was b/c I didn't take the Bible seriously. Whoa.

And then there are those who believe they're being persecuted for standing up for the Biblical way of parenting, persecuted by a world hostile to the Word. "If spanking is against the law, then I'll go to jail!" Yes, that I've heard. That's a hill they're willing to die on. A hill made up of a precious few poetic verses that they've never even bothered to read in the original language or study the meaning of in context of the original language! Ack!!:doh

Hermana Linda
04-05-2011, 11:52 AM
I was going to link to something entirely different today but decided to link to this today. :yes3 This is so important. :pray4

gpsings
04-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Or they think others only have a problem with it b/c they don't believe the Bible. That's what I've run into. I grew up in a culture of spanking, but I didn't know anyone who spanked babies in real life until recently. I was appalled. Even coming from a background of being spanked and not having a problem with it, even planning to spank my own children (until I ran into GCM :yes), I had never run into the teaching of spanking babies. I've only read Tripp's book, but there were things in there that were so twisted (he actually advocates spankings as young as 8 months, not 18 months) that it baffled me that people I considered intelligent, normal people didn't run screamin from his teachings. :hunh Instead, they quoted them to me and told me the reason I didn't agree was b/c I didn't take the Bible seriously. Whoa.

And then there are those who believe they're being persecuted for standing up for the Biblical way of parenting, persecuted by a world hostile to the Word. "If spanking is against the law, then I'll go to jail!" Yes, that I've heard. That's a hill they're willing to die on. A hill made up of a precious few poetic verses that they've never even bothered to read in the original language or study the meaning of in context of the original language! Ack!!:doh

Maybe I'm naive, but isn't Following the Law of the Land also in the bible? I mean, how well are you able to spank/ parent from behind bars? :hunh
One of the things I hope that will come from spanking being prosecuted, is that christian parents will start following the law of the land in regard to how they choose to discipline.

Myrtle
04-05-2011, 12:15 PM
Maybe I'm naive, but isn't Following the Law of the Land also in the bible? I mean, how well are you able to spank/ parent from behind bars? :hunh
One of the things I hope that will come from spanking being prosecuted, is that christian parents will start following the law of the land in regard to how they choose to discipline.

Not trying to be argumentative at all. Just sharing what I've run into in these discussions with people I know in real life who could have the exact same criminal complaints written up about them...

"Ah, but not if that law contradicts God's Word. Better to obey God than man and all." The only thing with that is, it's kinda' important to actually know God's Word on a matter before they start throwing that about!

The whole teaching on spanking young children and infants is based, not just on a faulty interpretation of the Word (b/c that could be debatable or easily dismissed if one just didn't agree with someone else's interpretation). It's based on plain old misunderstanding of the Word b/c it's taught over and over in the English with no mention of what the actual, literal interpretation of the words even are. Those who insist on taking the Word literally instead of figuratively don't even do it b/c they don't even know what it says literally! *sigh*

magpiedpiper
04-05-2011, 12:24 PM
That just makes my heart so sad. When the father stated that physical punishment can begin as early as 3 months old...ugh. We have a friend whose babies just reached three months of age. I cannot even begin to imagine striking such small, new babies simply for crying. :sick

Wonder Woman
04-05-2011, 12:37 PM
their pastor? He said SIX WEEKS :cry :shiver :sick

rjy9343
04-05-2011, 12:51 PM
I think that gpsings makes a very good point. Even if spanking is not banned out right making it taboo, would cause people to think twice. I grew up in the rural South were it is perfectly acceptable to spank. I even heard spank if you love from the pulpit. I had a real ah ha moment when I realized that the only reason I was going to spank is because I that is what I thought I was commanded to do by God. I did not want to do it and was praying that God would give me the courage to do it. Because it had a Christian wrapper, I was going to do something I found sickening. I really think that is why most Christians spank. They really do not want to do it, but they have heard most if not all of their lives that if you do not, then you do not love your kids and have damned them to death and destruction.
Unfortunately, Myrtle is right. There are always going to be people who think spanking is mandatory and would rather go to prison, then disobey. But if it is not as acceptable, then that number will be far fewer. At least that is my hope. As sad as I am for those babies, if it causes a serious look at what these so called gurus are saying then it was not in vain.

Castle On A Cloud
04-05-2011, 12:55 PM
:sick

CelticJourney
04-05-2011, 01:39 PM
The laws regarding corporal punishment are different for each state. I'm in South Carolina and my husband is in law enforcement, so I have access to the 'code' book. Here, believe it or not, it is illegal to strike a child anywhere but the bottom or with anything but the hand. Enforcement is a different issue. My point is 1) there is a legal foundation for prosecuting this couple depending on the laws of their state and 2) changing the laws does far less than changing the heart. We are in a battle for hearts and souls, not just or even predominately rules.

Cook
04-05-2011, 02:16 PM
:cry This really breaks my heart. Did I read correctly that the dad was quoted as saying 3 months old is an appropriate age to start spanking with a literal rod. This is sick. I have some bad business of abuse from my past but the idea that ANYONE could wrap their mind around that young of using physical infliction of pain to yield a behavior change... I'm ... I'm not sure at all what to think of that. I too had to pray for courage to spank in the name of Christianity. Oddly enough my own faith started to suffer greatly around that time :(

I also agree that laws don't stop people. But maybe this sort of extreme story *will* make people second guess their approach in any discipline situation.

Annainprogress
04-05-2011, 03:12 PM
:sick :(

Hermana Linda
04-05-2011, 03:24 PM
:cry This really breaks my heart. Did I read correctly that the dad was quoted as saying 3 months old is an appropriate age to start spanking with a literal rod.

Actually, someone was quoted as saying that 1 and a half months was an appropriate age to use the rod. :sick

BrendaK
04-05-2011, 04:07 PM
I'm speechless... well, almost. The part that gave me chills was the father admitting to seeing bruises on the little girl's body, but then he would remember "Jesus died the most horrible death." :hunh And?! That is just twisted beyond anything I've ever heard.

I pray that little girl will be placed in a home where she will experience true love and grace.

BTW, does anyone know if she has been removed from her parents yet? One of the earlier news stories indicated that she and others are still with their parents, but I may have missed something in the past few days.

Katydid
04-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Spanking 6 week old babies in the name of God? :sick I can only imagine how that much must sadden and disgust Him. :sad

Isn't it illegal in Canada to spank a child under the age of two? I think that would be a wonderful start here. :yes2

Sanveann
04-05-2011, 05:01 PM
Alexis - Hi! I haven't seen you around for a while :heart

Hi there! It's good to be back :)

mommy2abigail
04-05-2011, 05:45 PM
This is :sick
John Caminiti told investigators in November he uses a rod or dowel on his two youngest children at home or at church and the scriptures make it clear his behavior is allowed.
He said he does not allow his family to communicate with people outside his religious beliefs and has punished his wife and son by shunning, or confining them to their rooms to have no contact with other family members, until they corrected their disobedience.

dulce de leche
04-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Notice that the wife's status IRT punishment is the same level as the child's.

mommy2abigail
04-05-2011, 06:22 PM
Yes. That's what made me :sick. Of course hitting babies does too. :mad

sarahbeth
04-05-2011, 06:42 PM
This is nauseating. I know a girl that spanked her very tiny baby for crying and not being quiet in church. Only I think it was just with her hand, not an object. I know she did it with her first, not sure about her other two. She's "lucky" I suppose no one ever called CPS on her. :cry

I just can't believe this. And it's scary what you find out about people (Lori). :(

joyousTXmama
04-05-2011, 11:02 PM
Thanks for posting that link. My heart feels crushed for those babies. I pray for the softening of their parents' hearts.

I think it's time to make spanking against the law in the United States.

Absolutely agree.

I will tell anyone who asks - I flatly cannot stand to watch it. To me watching a parent hit a child is no different than if a man dragged his wife aside in public... and started hitting her.

100 years ago domestic violence was "private" and "their business" and "just a part of life". And I truly believe in another 100 years, spanking children will seem just as barbaric as that standard does to the majority today.

NewCovenantMama
04-06-2011, 03:42 AM
I too had to pray for courage to spank in the name of Christianity. Oddly enough my own faith started to suffer greatly around that time :(


I find this interesting. I'm planning a "position paper" on child discipline abuse and the false teachings which have enabled it to happen. OK if I reference this?

Cook
04-06-2011, 04:47 AM
I find this interesting. I'm planning a "position paper" on child discipline abuse and the false teachings which have enabled it to happen. OK if I reference this?

Sure. You'll see on my About Me page that I believe there is a huge link also between a woman's intuition and her obedience with God. When we severe the lines of what God created us to do, we hurt our relationship with Him for sure.

DoulaClara
04-06-2011, 06:24 AM
Sure. You'll see on my About Me page that I believe there is a huge link also between a woman's intuition and her obedience with God. When we severe the lines of what God created us to do, we hurt our relationship with Him for sure.

I very, very strongly agree with this! I love the way you worded this. May I share the bolded?

Llee
04-06-2011, 06:36 AM
Me too?

Sparrow
04-06-2011, 06:45 AM
I'm speechless... well, almost. The part that gave me chills was the father admitting to seeing bruises on the little girl's body, but then he would remember "Jesus died the most horrible death." :hunh And?! That is just twisted beyond anything I've ever heard.



This is what sickens me. Jesus died a horrible death, so that we wouldn't have to. Especially so sweet, innocent little children wouldn't have to. When statements like this are made, it twists the sacrifice that was given for us.

---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------

I'm considering writing to our local Christian book store and asking them not to carry Lori Wick books anymore.

I was speaking with my dad about the store, and he is friendly with the owner. Lately my dad has been reading about pacificism and Christianity. The owner has been showing dad books that he has read that are all anti-corporal punishment (not in kids, in general) that he has read and has enjoyed and dad feels this guy shares his views on the subject.

Now that I think about it, the store is really heavy in books that are recommended here. They even carry Sears.

ShiriChayim
04-06-2011, 07:04 AM
Reb's blog links to several other news articles on the story that are really illuminating. The initial reports were made by former members who would attend services and noticed the pastor preaching about the "rod" combined with parents removing their children to side rooms and hearing the spankings going on, even the infants. :sick

In one news article the prosecutor is very careful to mention that this is NOT a case of religious freedom, that the Law cannot be broken in the name of God; and I imagine this is why there's such a careful and methodic case being built including the notation of the church's origins and interviewing the former pastor. If these people are going to claim that they are simply being persecuted in the name of their faith, that this other church holds a grudge, or any number of other things the criminal complaint must be clear about who said what and when and why. :yes

Cook
04-06-2011, 07:04 AM
This is what sickens me. Jesus died a horrible death, so that we wouldn't have to. Especially so sweet, innocent little children wouldn't have to. When statements like this are made, it twists the sacrifice that was given for us.

---------- Post added at 06:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------

I'm considering writing to our local Christian book store and asking them not to carry Lori Wick books anymore.

I was speaking with my dad about the store, and he is friendly with the owner. Lately my dad has been reading about pacificism and Christianity. The owner has been showing dad books that he has read that are all anti-corporal punishment (not in kids, in general) that he has read and has enjoyed and dad feels this guy shares his views on the subject.

Now that I think about it, the store is really heavy in books that are recommended here. They even carry Sears.

What a great way to make a difference :heart:clap

ShiriChayim
04-06-2011, 07:04 AM
Adding on: this is a copy of ONE of the complaints that have been issued, there are more out there including other parents (elders?) of this church as well as the pastor and his own wife.

Wonder Woman
04-06-2011, 07:05 AM
Heather, do you have links for those? I'll post them too :yes

Cook
04-06-2011, 07:05 AM
@ LoraLee and DoulaClara: Absolutely!

ShiriChayim
04-06-2011, 07:07 AM
Heather, do you have links for those? I'll post them too :yes
I wish! :-/ I have no clue where or how you found those. Let me do a little searching and see what I can come up with.

Wonder Woman
04-06-2011, 07:13 AM
yeah, that was the only one I could find leaked online - I'll dig some more after work today, too.

Llee
04-06-2011, 07:15 AM
@ LoraLee and DoulaClara: Absolutely!


Thank you!

Wonder Woman
04-06-2011, 07:18 AM
I just called the courthouse - supposedly they will release them to the public upon request. I'll email today :tu

Cook
04-06-2011, 07:18 AM
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/simpleCaseSearch.xsl;jsessionid=41277DBAEF531899DB C3F1A83BF33895.render6

Is this part of how you access these things?

Wonder Woman
04-06-2011, 07:20 AM
http://wcca.wicourts.gov/simpleCaseSearch.xsl;jsessionid=41277DBAEF531899DB C3F1A83BF33895.render6

Is this part of how you access these things?

That county said they don't make them available online :think

ShiriChayim
04-06-2011, 07:22 AM
Not the criminal complaint but you can search the names of the people who have cases pending against them and get the case numbers and basic details for each person (that is where I went first to check). Reb, I'll be interested to see what you find later on. :yes

Cook
04-06-2011, 07:23 AM
I have some personal experience with background checking stuff... It looks like just court cases though and not actual complaints although those might be listed some how with? GL though! This is a horrific story and I totally agree that it being public would make someone think twice :( I feel bad for these people too, what I read on your link seems to point to them having little to no idea of their errors.

NewLeaf
04-06-2011, 08:27 AM
The thing I hate about these cases that are prosecuted is that it has to be a very young child, a child has to die, etc. What happened to these babies is atrocious. But it's atrocious regardless of the age or the outcome. So many people can't see that.

So many times I've linked to stories like these with people commenting things like 'They took it too far' or 'of course you have to use common sense'. It's so sad how hardened people's hearts have become because spanking has become ingrained with their faith and theology. :(

I truly hope that lives are transformed through this situation coming to light. The lives of the children, the parents and all those that hear it. :pray4

Wonder Woman
04-06-2011, 08:36 AM
So many times I've linked to stories like these with people commenting things like 'They took it too far' or 'of course you have to use common sense'.

I told someone the other day - GBD is the only parenting style I know of where 'taking it too far' results in even better-behaved children and closer families :shrug I mean, if something can be taken too far and result in death...it's not godly.

newday
04-06-2011, 08:38 AM
The thing I hate about these cases that are prosecuted is that it has to be a very young child, a child has to die, etc. What happened to these babies is atrocious. But it's atrocious regardless of the age or the outcome. So many people can't see that.

So many times I've linked to stories like these with people commenting things like 'They took it too far' or 'of course you have to use common sense'. It's so sad how hardened people's hearts have become because spanking has become ingrained with their faith and theology. :(

I truly hope that lives are transformed through this situation coming to light. The lives of the children, the parents and all those that hear it. :pray4

I agree with you completely.
And,
I have been one of "those" people. I have hit my dds repeatedly, many times a day for things which now don't even make me think twice about my sons doing it. (the girls are nearly ten and 8.5 - boys are 3.5 and nearly two)
I could go on and on about the things I have done because I truly believed it was best, right and Biblical. The implications of the wrongness of what I have done, and what has been done to me, in Christ's name, no less, still make me want to crawl in a hole and hide sometimes. It is truly terrible.

Always, no matter where I am at right now, my mantra is "but for the grace of God..." His grace is what keeps me going when I am so wrong these days and it is what keeps me going when I am once again hit with the severity of what I have done. :(

This is why I so appreciate what Katiekind said on the first page - I am sick to my stomach. God pour tenderest mercy on those poor children and lift the veil of deception in the minds of the adults. That is horrible.

I wonder if someone prayed that way for me? I wonder if that is what has made the difference in my heart and home?

rjy9343
04-06-2011, 08:50 AM
I told someone the other day - GBD is the only parenting style I know of where 'taking it too far' results in even better-behaved children and closer families :shrug I mean, if something can be taken too far and result in death...it's not godly.
:yes:heart:clap

RealLifeMama
04-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Reb's blog links to several other news articles on the story that are really illuminating. The initial reports were made by former members who would attend services and noticed the pastor preaching about the "rod" combined with parents removing their children to side rooms and hearing the spankings going on, even the infants. :sick

In one news article the prosecutor is very careful to mention that this is NOT a case of religious freedom, that the Law cannot be broken in the name of God; and I imagine this is why there's such a careful and methodic case being built including the notation of the church's origins and interviewing the former pastor. If these people are going to claim that they are simply being persecuted in the name of their faith, that this other church holds a grudge, or any number of other things the criminal complaint must be clear about who said what and when and why. :yes

What you talked about in the second paragraph here is what I was worried it was all about. It is good to hear where the complaints came from. That makes more sense now.

Hermana Linda
04-06-2011, 10:47 AM
I find this interesting. I'm planning a "position paper" on child discipline abuse and the false teachings which have enabled it to happen. OK if I reference this?

If you ever wish to make said paper public, please keep me in mind as this is exactly up my alley. :yes

Speaking of intuition, I have an article written by a GCM called, Following Your Instincts. (http://whynottrainachild.com/articles/following-your-instincts/)

MaraL356
04-06-2011, 02:17 PM
Rebecca - I want to thank you for posting that criminal complaint. I wrote a note to my church's pastor and librarian, asking that we not purchase any more Lori Wick books, and attached the link to the complaint - the focus of my note being that we not send any more $ towards that kind of "church". I belong to an SBC church (although an unusual one), and the discipline ideas of the congregation run the gamut, so I didn't want to push people by suggesting that we remove all of her books from the shelves. Anyway, I got a same-day response, and both the pastor and librarian were clear - they not only would not buy any more of her books, but any that the church had would be removed. :yes:heart

So again, thank you!!!:heart

Llee
04-06-2011, 04:17 PM
@ LoraLee and DoulaClara: Absolutely!

I put it up. :) One person said she was putting it on her wall for her sister to read. So you got passed around! Yay you! Yay God!

NewCovenantMama
04-06-2011, 05:14 PM
If you ever wish to make said paper public, please keep me in mind as this is exactly up my alley. :yes


I absolutely intend to make it public. I'll send you the link when it's finally up. :thumbsup

ProudHooahWife
04-06-2011, 08:42 PM
WOW that is awful! How on earth could anyone spank a 8 week old baby!!! This is abuse on so many levels. A baby fusses or makes noise...whatever because of a reason, it needs to eat, diaper change, needs loved etc. This could lead to male nurished babies who learn to not cry because their needs aren't going to be met anyway and also it is just sick! WOW:(. I have read Lori Wick's books before but stopped when I lost count of what I had read lol but I will not be buying anymore.