The GBD Window

[BlessedBlue]

This is a parenting concept Crystal Lutton (ArmsOfLove) talks about in her book Biblical Parenting.

I'd really like to take some time to discuss it here, because I think it really helps prevent the permissive/punitive pendulum we all tend to ride at one point or another.

I'll post the graphics here in a sec. I'd love feedback on those too. We're retooling the graphics for the re-release of Grace-Based Living (release date moved to April 1), and Crystal hopes to use them in her re-write of Biblical Parenting, and we want to make sure that they are clear and understandable. :)

[PDX Mommy]

:popcorn I'm trying to work out some balance between the permissive/punitive pendulum right now.

[Dandelion]

:cup

[BlessedBlue]

This space now intentionally blank. :)

[PDX Mommy]

What are your age guidelines for each of these? (Infant/Toddler, Young Child, Young adolescent, young adult)

You might want to make "Block Natural Consequences" and "Logical Consequences" a different color or pull them away a bit so that the arrow doesn't break the phrase in half. I was confused at first, haha. Also, I don't really understand how the Permissive/Punitive parts work in the more complex graphs? When your children are young then you tend to be more permissive & when your children are older you tend to be more punitive???

[Love_Is_Patient]

Those are really interesting, thank you!

[Cook]

:yes Loving this post!

[3boysforme]

I don't understand the window, like at all :bag

[Forsynthianicki]

Subbing to come back when I'm not on my phone.
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[BlessedBlue]

These are illustrations for a chapter that is in Biblical Parenting, and in Grace-Based Living. So, obviously there are words to go along with. :giggle (Biblical Parenting gives a great overview, and Grace-Based Living goes even more in depth. :yes)

I'll do my best to sum up.

Grace-Based Discipline attempts to strike the balance between permissive and punitive according to the needs of the child. (This is the parents' "cross" to bear.) So there is no hard and fast formula for parenting each situation, and being attached and understanding age-appropriate expectations is necessary for using the Window to its best advantage.

Each child is different and hits milestones on their own time. Roughly the infant/toddler stage is 0-5, Young Child is 6-10, Young Adolescent is 11-13, Young adult 14-21. Think continuum.

And yes, for young children, you are more permissive in that you are respecting their developmental abilities and helping them accomplish tasks. If you were doing that for your middle schooler, or high schooler, you would definitely be TOO permissive, and would need to add empowerment back into the equation to rebalance the situation. Likewise, offering TOO MUCH empowerment (decision making and mistake experiencing) to a small child would be considered punitive, and adding back in respect for their age-appropriate limitations would balance things out again.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------

The goal is to stay within the window. When you go overboard and beyond the white boundaries, that is when you run into the stop sign of permissive/punitive.

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Oh, and if you already have a copy of BP or GBL could you please tell me if the images make the concept clearer?

[Tee]

I definitely like the visuals/graphs idea...that is genius :D

[mathematicalmessymamma]

i struggle with graphics if they're not explained to me. i'm going to order the book and look forward to what is said here too.

[3boysforme]

i struggle with graphics if they're not explained to me. i'm going to order the book and look forward to what is said here too.

That is my problem too. I have a really hard time with graphs and diagrams.

I do better with return demostration, which means Crystal will just have to come teach me :shifty

[Cook]

I think I do better with a graphic than words. I totally love this. Thanks!! Although I look forward to the words too :D

[Kiera]

Wow, love the graphics! I haven't even read it and I'm having an ah-ha moment.

[BlessedBlue]

Um... How about a real life example to demonstrate how the window works?

Let's take a common one - The child runs into the street.

Now, obviously, your approach to this problem is going to change based on the age of the child in question.

If your child is 5 or younger, the pane you're going to work in would be the infant/toddler one. :yes

That means you will take the following into consideration: Parent as Servant, Block Natural consequences, Be kind in approach, Respectful of their lack of impulse control, and model how to stay with an adult. These are all PROACTIVE and INTENTIONAL steps that you can take to help the child be successful in this situation.

How might it look different for a middle schooler/young adolescent?

[Katigre]

I like the concept, I'm having a hard time following it (b/c I'm someone who likes clearer parameters in visual graphs :bag). Anywhere in the window is ok? Or only within the square for your child's age?

Figure 7 makes the most sense :yes b/c it has the additional words on the borders that help me picture the implementation. Figure 4 is very confusing to me b/c it seems too vague.

My biggest question is why is the 'parent as authority' emphasized for young adults where they should be moving into their own autonomy and the parent transitioning to guide/mentor/partner? (I'm probably totally misunderstanding that part :blush).

I don't get why empowering and respecting are paired with permissive/punitive (are they opposites?)

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Note: I offer the thoughts above as a critique/editing aid, because I think if I ponder it for awhile it will make sense and I'll get it - but I believe that visual aids in self-help books should be easy to grasp.

[BlessedBlue]

:ty Katigre I totally agree. :yes

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

:doh Would it help to know that this is a series of graphics where Crystal introduces the concept and helps the reader "build" the window step by step?

[3boysforme]

:doh Would it help to know that this is a series of graphics where Crystal introduces the concept and helps the reader "build" the window step by step?



Yes, it is helpful. I haven't read Biblical Parenting (and was going to get it on Kindle today :poke), so that may be why I do not totally understand it.

I do understand it much more because of your example, so thank you. I am still trying to think how to approach that with a tween/teen because I would hope by that age running into traffic would not be an issue I have to address :shifty. But I am trying to think of an equally dangerous situation a child that age could get into and how I would approach it.

[TraceMama]

I'm looking forward to more discussion :)

[BlessedBlue]

Katigre, you asked really good questions. :tu I'm trying to clarify, without giving away copyrighted material. Crystal does do a better job of explaining it in her books. :yes

The whole window is overlapped continuums. If you have a younger child, that shows you the correct quadrant to start looking in to determine what a graceful balanced response would be. And as the child gets older, you will find yourself moving your response closer and closer to the line between the age groupings.

GBD is all about seeking balance for the individuals in the relationship. Permissive/Punitive are two extremes that we're trying balance out. They are located outside the window. If you find you are being too permissive, you can balance it out by adding empowerment. If you find you are being too punitive, you can balance it out by being more respectful (aka better informed on age-appropriate expectations).

3boysforme Biblical Parenting is available on paperback. We will release Grace-Based Living direct to Kindle on April 1. :hug

[Peridot]

I don't understand the window, like at all :bag

:bag me neither.
:ty Katigre I totally agree. :yes

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

:doh Would it help to know that this is a series of graphics where Crystal introduces the concept and helps the reader "build" the window step by step?


Yes, that would help.

[BlessedBlue]

:bump

[Blue-EyedLady]

:cup coming back to this when I have a full size screen available to me.

[Forsynthianicki]

I like the graphics but I also understand that they can't be fully utilized without words to explain them further. I felt they were clear and help to illustrate the concept.

[Blue-EyedLady]

Figures 5 & 6 seem redundant with Figure 7. Does she talk about each side separately in the book? Then it would make more sense. :yes

The respect/empower continum doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't consider those to be opposites, so maybe I've got the wrong idea of how she's using the term in the book. But I would think that you would respect your child throughout his life, not just until age 11. And I feel like when I model/script for my young child, I am empowering him to be able to do xyz. Ie. he wants something on a high shelf. Grunting and pointing isn't the most effective communication, so I model polite asking words for him so he can be more sucessful. :shrug

[L-Boogie]

Figures 5 & 6 seem redundant with Figure 7. Does she talk about each side separately in the book? Then it would make more sense. :yes

The respect/empower continum doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't consider those to be opposites, so maybe I've got the wrong idea of how she's using the term in the book. But I would think that you would respect your child throughout his life, not just until age 11. And I feel like when I model/script for my young child, I am empowering him to be able to do xyz. Ie. he wants something on a high shelf. Grunting and pointing isn't the most effective communication, so I model polite asking words for him so he can be more sucessful. :shrug

It sounds to me like "respect" in this diagram has to do with respecting the child's age-appropriate abilities and offering your help rather than expecting more than they are capable of... am I on the right track?

[Blue-EyedLady]

It sounds to me like "respect" in this diagram has to do with respecting the child's age-appropriate abilities and offering your help rather than expecting more than they are capable of... am I on the right track?

That would make more sense... Like I said, without reading the accompanying text, it's hard to know just *how* she's using the words, exactly.

[L-Boogie]

That would make more sense... Like I said, without reading the accompanying text, it's hard to know just *how* she's using the words, exactly.

:yes

[BlessedBlue]

Stay tuned for new and improved graphics...

[rebecuna]

Generally, the graphics are very helpful. I like the parent as authority/servant as being a different spectrum than permissive/punitive, while still interacting. The infant/toddler and young child progression from parent as servant to authority makes sense to me, as does both of them being on the blocking natural consequences side of the window.

I'm having a hard time understanding the young adolescent "return" to parent as servant, moving from firm to kind again... is that something developmentally important? Like not being rigid in your expectations or something? Or is it because now that they're experiencing more logical consequences, they need more kindness from you to balance the toughness they're experiencing in their consequences? But if the logical consequences are mostly imposed by the parent (as opposed to natural consequences which just occur), how does that fit with being kind? Seems more like being firm to me.

I also don't really understand the difference between "teach" and "correct" (although I'm sure that's explained more in the text).

[BlessedBlue]

The difficulty in making this graphic, is that it is really best understood in 3D, and graphics are 2D.

Think of a spiral, like a paper-towel tube. The cardboard on the tube is in a spiral, and the layers build on each other. That's how development is with kids. So the young adolescent is starting pre-logic, which means they will be revisiting a lot of information and plugging it into a new understanding. There's hormones and such coming into play. So rather than thinking it starts over again, think of it as building on the foundation you've already laid.

If anyone has an idea how to better represent that graphically - I'm all ears! :listen

[BlessedBlue]

New and improved graphics!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHDtBE7zI/AAAAAAAABPE/8SRArqQVU0Q/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%201Watermark.png https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHDpzjIzI/AAAAAAAABPM/B18QW0fxJeA/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%202Watermark.png https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHDk3ajBI/AAAAAAAABPI/RN_QDCgEYuU/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%203Watermark.png https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHDpq7lvI/AAAAAAAABPc/NDWfDJn9uGU/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%204Watermark.png https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHDw66UdI/AAAAAAAABPQ/4vEuhSxlKFc/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%205Watermark.png https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlJA_9b5KI/AAAAAAAABPo/QgHG14yYtLQ/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%206Watermark.png https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Avze-V2laMM/TYlHEN0azMI/AAAAAAAABPY/p6kIxe5j-_U/s400/Grace%20Based%20Window%207Watermark.png

[Blue-EyedLady]

Spiral staircase? :think Oh, maybe flights of stairs?

Crystal's idea might just be too complex to represent it in a 2D graphic.

Ames and Ilg have a spiral diagram in their books showing the equilibrium/disequilibrium cycle, but their concept is much simpler than what Crystal is trying to express.

[ArmsOfLove]

I'm having a hard time understanding the young adolescent "return" to parent as servant, moving from firm to kind again... is that something developmentally important? Like not being rigid in your expectations or something? It is developmentally important :yes It's about how you approach the move to the new stage--there is so much teaching going on in the previous window without the assumption that they know things unless they jump in and just do them and this is a stage where you back off a bit and sit back and watch what they do. Give them room to make mistakes so that you can help them figure out what they missed, what more they need to learn. It's handing over the reigns and letting them fall sometimes. If you are imposing logical consequences from a place of firm/rigid/authority you will be slipping out into punitive and risk becoming dogmatic and controlling. By remembering to shift back into the kind position but balanced with empowering you are reminded to hand over all of the power they are ready for.

does that make sense? I know I explain it better in the book (I hope :shifty)

[Cook]

Yes! Crystal that is a great explanation, imo. But I'm only speaking from experience as teen and don't have any mothering experience in that yet :)

I wonder if figure 3 should have a star or something signifying that the middle is the grace based ideal? Not sure if that would help clarify a direction of the figure but that crossed my mind...

[BlessedBlue]

:think

I'm getting feedback that it's still unclear. This is how I was understanding it:

It's like learning math. First you do the rote memory thing. Then as the child demonstrates ability to handle more responsibility, you allow them to have it - keeping in mind that you do expect failure as they get ahead of themselves, and that requires kindness, not firmness on your part.

As they move toward adulthood and start demonstrating better ability to handle the responsibilities they have, you move into firmness - by continuing to hold them to the high standards that are expected of grown adults.

As always, respect for their abilities will keep you from going overboard into punitiveness. Each continuum is kept in tension. Respect is needed just as much or even more as the child gets older. They will try to take the empowerment before they're ready, and it is a parent's job to keep respecting the developmental stage they're at. Let go of the tension and the child will shoot themselves into punitive situations before they are ready for the responsibility of the consequences.

[Cook]

Sorry... I think I meant figure 2! The very first image is not figure one right? Then I do mean figure 2 for sure. I'm starting to confuse myself though. What I'm seeing now is actually figure 3 makes a lot of sense to me. I'm very visual and actually need diagrams to see the *how* of breaking down ideas. These are very helpful. I just understood the point of fig 2 (sorry for the mix up) to be that the Grace Based Model is on the center middle intersection right?

[BlessedBlue]

Yes. Figure one shows the punitive/permissive pendulum. Fig. 2 shows that GBD can keep both those things in tension (rather than swinging back and forth), and then the rest of the images are how Crystal helps you build your own Window - a game plan for parenting intentionally. :yes

If you read Biblical Parenting, the words that go with the figures do fill in those blanks very well. ;)

[rebecuna]

I really like the new yield ! signs. The stop sign is still a bit hard for me to take in visually-- maybe adding a white rim around the edge or something to make it look more like a stop sign? Or even putting the word "stop" in the middle. Actually, I wonder if it makes sense to reverse these? Yield as you get too close to one of the extremes, stop when you're there?

I like the concept of holding things in tension and wonder if there's a visual way to portray that-- maybe the lines with the arrows are ropes in the first graphic or something like that?

[Tasmanian Saint]

It sounds to me like "respect" in this diagram has to do with respecting the child's age-appropriate abilities and offering your help rather than expecting more than they are capable of... am I on the right track?
So, in this context, would 'understanding' make more sense than 'respect'?

[ArmsOfLove]

So, in this context, would 'understanding' make more sense than 'respect'?
No, because respect is how you act on the understanding. It's about the position you take in the relationship dynamic :heart

[TraceMama]

From Crystal (AOLFF site and FB page):
We are so very close to the Grace-Based Living Kindle version being available for everyone's Kindles!

Unfortunately when we started the uploading process we learned there may be up to 24 hours difference between having it loaded and it being published for download.

Just be assured we're working as hard and as fast as we can ♥