Help with garden organization and soil

[Lily]

Ok, so my first year of gardening was kind of a bust - ok more like 50/50. We got 12 tomatoes out of 6 plants which makes me pout, but we did get 10 lbs of jalepenos (5 plants) and 12 lbs of bell peppers (7 plants).

We did have bird issues with the tomatoes and NO ONE who bought their tomato plants where we did had good tomatoes - maybe it was just a bad year for tomatoes maybe it was the plants.

We have 3 bordered gardens - two on the east side of the house and one on the west side of the house. We are going to till a large garden in the backyard (hopefully I can get Lee to come next weekend). Each bordered garden is 8' by 4' and the backyard garden is going to be 10' by 15-20'.

So, I just planted seeds in containers today of:
3 kinds of tomatoes
squash
zucchini
green beans
bell peppers
thai peppers
onions
basil
cilantro

Help me organize where everything should go! Last time the peppers went in the west garden and tomatoes in the east gardens. So we were planning on doing the tomatoes and herbs in the two east gardens; peppers and onions in the west garden. Then squash, zucchini and green beans in new backyard garden. Plus we have seeds for carrots and I'm not sure where those should go.

Also, what should we be doing with the soil for each garden? What should I be adding to make sure there is enough nutrients for the types of plants.

I am seriously clueless - the more I read, the more confused and cranky I get. (The one plus is that the ground laid fallow last summer and almost no weeds grew in the gardens - DH regularly weeded them.)

[greengirl19]

:bump
I don't have any good advice but good luck!

[Macky]

Welcome to the gardening forum, Jamie! :) Firstly, check into your local university's extension services. This is always the best place to get information on your specific location (soil, climate, etc.). I live in a climate with a MUCH shorter season, so take my advice with a grain of salt. ;)

Whether your garden is on the east or west side of the house doesn't tell me a whole lot unless it's a skinny bed right up against the house. If it's away from the house a bit and has a southern exposure that isn't blocked by a fence, trees or building, it's a different story. You didn't say whether the new garden in your backyard is on the south or north side of the house.

It would probably be best to forget about complicating matters with a compass and just focus on simple sun exposure. The only way to figure this out is to observe your own yard over the course of a day and mark down the hours of sun each area gets. In my climate, I would place plants according to what needed the most sun and heat. In a hot climate, you may have to consider overheating (something I'm sooo not familiar with :giggle). This is how I would place the plants you listed, plants needing the most sun and/or heat listed first:

- all peppers *need the most heat
- tomatoes *need the most sun

- squash and zucchini
- onions
- carrots
- herbs
- green beans

I've grown green beans that only got afternoon sun (they were on the west side of a row of trees) and although they didn't produce as well as those in full sun, they still did surprisingly well.

No one can tell you specifically what to do for your particular soil. I don't have the same soil specifics as my neighbour because we've handled our soil differently over the years. Everyone should get a soil test when they start out if you want to get really great results. If that's not in the cards, you can't go wrong with adding organic matter. As long as it's decomposed, it's good... dig it in. :) As far as other amendments, it depends entirely on whether you have clay or sand or whatever in between. What you add also depends on your philosophy. Are you feeding the plants or feeding the soil? No one fertilizer will meet the ideal needs of each of the plants you listed. Carrots and beans are light feeders. Tomatoes and onions are heavy feeders, but in different areas (and tomatoes at different stages).

It would be a great asset for you to purchase a basic vegetable gardening book specific to your area. It will answer all of your questions and weed out (pun intended ;)) the information you don't need to just get started. No one likes being overwhelmed. :hug

ETA: You didn't list any particularly tall crops (like the corn and asparagus I have), so it doesn't sound like you have to be concerned too much about plants shading each other. Because the sun is so far to the south in my latitude, I have to put my tallest crops to the north and shortest crops to the south and/or arrange my rows north-south to maximize sun exposure. Regarding your fallowed/weeded bed... plant your root crops where in whatever garden has the least weeds or is most easily weeded. Most root crops do not compete well and need to be cleanly cultivated as much as possible.

[tempus vernum]

My first question is "how much space do you have?" I companion plant as much as possible because of limited space so I like to plant my peas right next to my asparagus to give them a longer life (keep them shaded ;) ). I also plant my spinach and lettuce to be shaded when it gets hot.

Second question is "what is your zone?" That only affects my advice to plant in the shade ;) For us short growing people, even if you have abundant shade, IMO it's VERY important to try to shade your late spring plantings - I can't plant my peas/lettuce/spinach until late april early may so if I don't shade them, they will have a VERY limited crop! I am zone 5!


Everything else I am :yes to what spirited duo said ;)

[WanderingJuniper]

:popcorn

[Lily]

I'm in zone 7 so I have a pretty long growing season. I have to worry most about overheating and killing plants.

The garden in the backyard has zero shade and is south of the house. So I was thinking of doing the squash, zucchini and green beans back there. I'm also thinking about putting the peppers there too. It's a huge area - at least 10' by 20'.

The two 8' by 4' bordered gardens on the east side get morning to 1/2pm sun but don't get as hot as the backyard or west garden.

The west garden (also 8' by 4' bordered) gets shade until 11/noon and then it gets the afternoon heat and sun until sunset. This is where I planted onions and peppers last time. The onions didn't do well at all, but the peppers thrived in the July -Sept heat.

It sounds like carrots and onions will do best in one of the east gardens (least amount of weeds, good amount of sun and space so they won't be crowded).

We have clay soil that is pretty stripped of everything from years as a deprived/chemicaled lawn (no chemicals since we bought the house almost 4 yrs ago). So I think I'll just stick with organic matter - it's the easiest for me to handle right now.

[tempus vernum]

Considering the space that squash and zucchini take up 10 x 20 is not that big :think I thought my original garden was tiny because it is 10 by 20 :shifty

In "tight space gardening" one zucchini hill per 3 square foot (1 foot wide by 3 foot deep). You need zucchini and squashes in a place where it can "take over" everything nearby if it grows really well! Not sure about traditional spacing because we try to grow a lot of stuff ;) One year my squash went over our fence and 6 feet into the field next to our house. I had to keep pushing it back before it took over the field :shifty Thankfully the person that mows the field belonging to our electric company kindly avoided my squash and we had a winters supply of squash that year :giggle

AFA zone 7, I know nothing about that . . . . so I don't know if I am best suited to make other recommendations outside of spacing ;)

[Lily]

I plan on planting 1 zucchini and 1 squash because of the take over factor. Thought I might make the backyard garden bigger. DH talked about going all the way to the south fence which would give us 35 or 40 by 10.

[tempus vernum]

I plan on planting 1 zucchini and 1 squash because of the take over factor. Thought I might make the backyard garden bigger. DH talked about going all the way to the south fence which would give us 35 or 40 by 10.

I usually do "one hill" in those situations in case none of the plants "take over" ;) I put them on the corners of the garden so you can let them go into the backyard.

[magpiedpiper]

What helped me wrap my brain around organizing the garden this year was to sit down with graph paper, calculator, and notes on how far apart things should be.

I think you can also trellis your zukes and cukes to help keep them under control some.

[WanderingJuniper]

What helped me wrap my brain around organizing the garden this year was to sit down with graph paper, calculator, and notes on how far apart things should be.

I think you can also trellis your zukes and cukes to help keep them under control some.

This is a perfect idea for my visual brain. Thank you.