Contrary!? Age 7

[AmyDoll]

DS1(age 7) is homeschooled. We mostly unschool and follow a loose curriculum & our lives revolve around going and doing & playing and having fun.

Here's an example from this past weekend, he already knew about the plans, we had started talking about them Wednesday & he was reminded the morning of,
"S we are leaving to go to A's house, now"
"No"
"Yes, we are going to the Fort to learn how the Soldiers survived the winter with A & her family" (A is one of his best friends)
"No, I'm not going"
"Your choice isn't whether or not we are going but how you are getting in the car. Would you like to move your body or have me move it for you"
--- we are at the Fort ---
He listens for about 3 minutes and then takes off out of the barracks rudely. He says he hates it. Dh talks to him about ways to learn history. He agrees that "living history" - the guy was dressed up & telling us about *his* life in the barracks - was indeed the coolest and easiest way to learn. It was only us, A's family, and one other family at the fort. It was intimate, hands on, and really awesome. The fort was surrounded by a giant wall & the barracks were fully decked out.
We are studying the Revolutionary war.

Time to go: "No."
Another cajoling by dh to get him to the car.

We go back to A's for dinner

After dinner, he HIDES. :sigh Another *fight* to leave.

I hate fighting and arguing and fussing.

It wasn't a hard day - we didn't do too much. We did ONE thing. We were home till after lunch.

How can I get through this - it's typical and hard and frustrating to always be told *no*

[bolt.]

In your post, it seems kind of like you "give" him one "no" -- in a manner of speaking.

When he said "no" to getting in the car, you didn't immediately move to making it happen, you paused and gave him a pretty good reason why it would be worth him changing his mind.

Similarly, when he took off during the tour, you took the time to give him a good reason why he should consent to be a part of it.

Similarly, his "no" to leaving the fort resulted in 'cajoling'.

---

So, when you see that trend, I'm thinking what it means to him is that "no" is his way of demanding a reason -- and, to him, it results in positive things: cajoling, reasoning, even stimulating argumentation. (Perhaps sometimes he even talks you out of something?)

Anyhow, I don't generally think it's a problem to give kids a reason to do something. I even approve of giving kids a free choice, and then working to talk them into the option you think is best... but there is no reason to talk a child into an activity that is not optional, and I don't think the best timing for giving reasons to 'do it' is after the instruction has already been refused.

When you put, "Your choice isn't whether or not we are going but how you are getting in the car. Would you like to move your body or have me move it for you" -- that's a great statement of a firm limit. I bet it works. I think you need to use that kind of thing every time he answers a direct instruction with a "no".

But before you get there, you can surely take the time to provide your reasoning (before you tell him what to do), and even afterwards, you could say, "I bet you'd like to know why this is important enough for me to not let it be optional." (and then tell him).

And before you even get there... If you are like most people, most of us sometimes give 'direct instructions' to kids 100 times a day when they are not nessisary. If you are going to hardline him on his "no" to instructions, it's very important not to be giving very many of them. In as many situations as possible, phrase yourself so that if he says "no" he's responding to a question like, "Would you like..?" or an invitation like, "Will you come?" or a statment like, "Lunch is on the table." -- Then you don't need to react at all to the "no"-ing, just carry through natural-result consiquences for the things he'd rather not do.

[TraceMama]

Wow, Amy, you just described a very typical day with my 7yo. :-/ I'm hoping 8 gets here soon honestly. :bag

I hope you don't mind if I listen in. :cup

[MarynMunchkins]

Tater Tot would have an absolute fit if I told him I'd move him. I don't move kids that big unless they're violent. :no I try to give him a little more power over the situation. I'd give him a deadline for getting in the car, but let him pick out which song we'll listen to first once we're in.

Is it mostly transition issues? Maybe giving him more warning or letting him know ahead of time the timing would help. A watch is very helpful for my 7 yo. :)

[AmyDoll]

TraceMama - On the way home we talked about "saying yes"
I make an effort to tell my kids "yes" - we did school at Chuck E Cheese on Friday bc we sometimes do Coffee Shop School & the boys asked for CEC school. Really, I don't have anything caught up in being hard-nosed with my kids. I like to make the stuff they ask for *happen*
So, I talked to him about saying "yes" to me bc he likes it when I say "yes" to him. And if he doesn't like the way stuff is turning out - we can have a conversation. Like, if he really didn't like the barracks - he could have said, "let's not do that again." He said instead, "No! I really liked it and the guy said there were going to be more programs this summer and I want to go!" :doh
I don't know - it's just annoying.

@bolt. Idk :think I mean, he knew where we were going. I was basically 5-stepping him. The repeated request with a reason is typically part of the 5 steps. With the 3rd step being to offer help. :shrug

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

@Mary - the watch is a good idea. He had one a couple years ago but he was telling me what time it was every minute. :doh It was too too much. It got "lost" Maybe I'll get him a new one for his Easter Basket.

[bolt.]

Well, if you are content with repeating your request with a reason after he has responded with "no" -- then what is it about his "no"-ing that bothers you?

Perhaps it is the first part, where you make the request without a reason, that is the beginning of this issue.

[AmyDoll]

@bolt. that it's EVERY single time we make a transition. He's 7. He knew why we were getting in the car. He had put his shoes on to do so. I'm wondering if it's age expected. Or if other moms have found ways of getting their 7yos to say "yes" instead of "no"
7 seems to be the year of Hyperbole - "Oh my goodness I'm going to die of lonliness and I have no friends" nevermind the fact that it's 4p and we spent the entire day from 10-3 with friends. I'm wondering if it's all related? And how it can be helped.

[klpmommy]

7 is the year of the persecution complex. I wonder if that is playing into it?

I do know that my kids still need some advance warning that we are transitioning "5-3-1" works well or "after I pee & put my shoes on" or some sort of visible clue.

[TraceMama]

It usually is very helpful if I give ds1 a specific time that we'll be doing something. :yes He watches the clock himself and will remind me that it's time to leave. :shifty

I've actually had to tighten up my response to his woe is me persecution complex a bit. :think Today, for instance, when it was time for his friend to leave and he was ready to complain bitterly about how "we never get to play a long time", etc, I firmly reminded him that if he fussed and didn't allow his friend to leave sweetly, then the next time he asked for his friend to come over the answer would be no. :shrug

It almost seems like "no" is the automatic answer at this age. :think Sometimes he says "no" and then just does what I've told him to do anyway. :scratch If I engage his "no" with more than a look, he'll often be ready to verbally spar with me and I'm trying to avoid that.

[AmyDoll]

:yes We do that too - "Part of getting to... is leaving nicely."
I'm going to try the time thing and see if that helps. And maybe put stuff on the calendar more where he can see it. :think

[TraceMama]

It helps us too if I give him some choice about how the day progresses, but it seems like you do that already. :yes

[klpmommy]

I'm going to try the time thing and see if that helps. And maybe put stuff on the calendar more where he can see it. :think

My two bigs really like things to be on the calendar and to mark off days when they are excited about something. And a lot of times they will ask "What day is ---- happening?" and then they'll count the days of the week to that point with me.

[MomtoJGJ]

I have girls, so that makes it different I'm sure. But I ignore the no unless they aren't doing what I say or what we have to do.

Was running out of the barracks dangerous? or could he have explored on his own? I know my oldest two like to see things on their own. Jayden (who will be 8 in April) does better if she can look around a place first BEFORE a guided tour. And Grace (who just turned 6) has an imagination the size of Asia and would likely not even realize she had said no out loud and would just be playing her own little game. I actually REMEMBER doing that, even as late as 9 or 10 and people, even my parents, wondering what in the world I was doing. I would have my own "tour" going on in my head of things I had previously learned and sometimes it would just come out... so could it be possible that he was having a war in his head?

I honestly cannot imagine what I'd do if Jayden were to hide and not come when I said it was time to go? That would be at least a week of us staying home, or if we had to leave the house her holding my hand the whole time until I could trust her again to behave in a proper manner. It would baffle me and confuse me.... it would also mean a lot of discussion about proper behavior. It might be age appropriate, but totally not ok in my book.