Families Where Grace Is In Place, book question

[luvinmama]

I just finished this book and loved it. :heart But, I am struggling with a few things regarding practicalities of what Jeff wrote about and what they actually look like carried out...

Here's an example:

"Do not give children consequences for the purpose of punishing them for wrong behavior." (p 165)

He elaborates on how families who do this typically produce kids who don't "get" forgiveness. I am one of those adults who has a hard time with forgiveness. It's important to me that I model this well with DD.

Okay. So, what does this actually "look" like in your families?

He goes one to say,

"Do give your children consequences in order to teach about behavior."

I just don't "get" what this looks like for a 2.5 year old sometimes. :scratch

[sweetpeasmommy]

So if 2.5 year old throws a toy, the toy gets put up. You don't smack their hand to punish them.
If 2.5 year old runs away from you, you use a stroller or harness or wear them or have a rule that they must hold your hand in public. You don't go home and take away all their toys.

Does that help? Natural consequences are related to the situation. Punishment seeks to make them pay for their mistake.

[Pearl In Oyster]

:popcorn Thanks for asking the question. I think I "get" it, but concrete examples and discussion are always good to keep solidifying it in my mind and heart.

[mystweaver]

:popcorn

[RedPetals]

:cup

[Punkie]

It seems especially hard in our society to separate the idea of consequences from punishment, because the "consequences" that we see are often punitive. One big paradigm shift is realizing that they don't need to SUFFER to change. God uses his love, grace and forgiveness to draw us in to him, and to change us to being more like Him. We are to model the same for our children.

So, if my daughter colors on the table, and then I have her wash the crayon off and she enjoys it, then that's still a fine consequence. I don't need to find a way to make her upset so she'll learn. I don't have to throw away all of her crayons just to teach her a point about coloring on the table.

I've often heard people advocate for an eye-for-an-eye style of consequences. So, for example, if your child breaks something of yours, then you break something of theirs. Instead of trying to make the child feel the same pain (which is ridiculous and unhealthy on many levels), we should help the child to fix what they can and give the child age-appropriate boundaries to help keep them safe and able to have success in making good decisions for themselves.

If consequences need to be given, like taking away the crayons in the above example, then it does not need to be done from a punitive standpoint. I can explain in a kind voice that I need to put them away because we only have one table and I don't want it getting ruined, but we can play with chalk outside. I don't need to shame and say "Now you've done this, so you can't play with crayons anymore!" I'm working with her to help her have success. I'm not trying to simply manipulate her into a different behavior.

[luvinmama]

So if 2.5 year old throws a toy, the toy gets put up. You don't smack their hand to punish them.
If 2.5 year old runs away from you, you use a stroller or harness or wear them or have a rule that they must hold your hand in public. You don't go home and take away all their toys.

Does that help? Natural consequences are related to the situation. Punishment seeks to make them pay for their mistake.

Yes, this helps a lot. And it's what we already do for DD.

:popcorn Thanks for asking the question. I think I "get" it, but concrete examples and discussion are always good to keep solidifying it in my mind and heart.

Yes, I like concrete examples and practical applications too. :)

[Pearl In Oyster]

I don't need to shame and say "Now you've done this, so you can't play with crayons anymore!" I'm working with her to help her have success. I'm not trying to simply manipulate her into a different behavior.

Reading this I realize how much I *do* unintentionally shame with my word choices. :doh :bag :blush

[purple_kangaroo]

I just wrote a pretty long blog post about how this looks in our family when kids hit or use hurtful words. There's a link in another recent post here in this forum if you want to read it.

Basically, the focus is on how to help them learn what you DO want them to do and how to handle life in healthy, appropriate ways. You don't want the focus to be on making them feel bad for what they did wrong, but in how they can make things right and learn to do right.

[Annainprogress]

:popcorn

I go through phases of "you can't have open access to drawing materials, you need to ask & I'll give them if I can watch you" & similar but the tone isn't always gentle. For me it is probably 70% my tone I need to work on (and the rest thinking outside the box, not saying the first thing/decree that comes into my head but thinking first, etc)

[Punkie]

Another thing that has really helped my kids to find success in the future is to show them acceptable choices that will meet the same needs.

So, using the same example... Coloring on the table isn't OK, but we can get out shaving cream and draw in it (on the table) with our fingers. If she is looking for a large canvas, and the table was the first thing that came to mind, we could cut a leftover Whole Foods paper bag into a huge, long strip, and she can color that while it sits on the table.

I've found that the more that I give my kids those better scripts/options, the more it supports them in making good choices the next time.

[lalani]

:cup

[mariposa]

:cup

[blessedmamaofmany]

Best.thread.ever.

This is totally what I need. I struggle so much with 'punish' vs consequence. Especially with my 3yo, who is in a 'do as he pleases and then laugh at me' phase. Nothing seems to phase him. The ONLY thing he responds to is positive reinforcement.

For example, he was being a stinky booger at dinner. And a bit before too. So afterwards, I said to him, ''hey. If you need attention, just say so. I'll gladly spend some time with you''
he says, ''ok. I need attention.''
We got some books and read and the rest of the evening was GREAT. No yelling. No 'time out'

[larkish]

One big paradigm shift is realizing that they don't need to SUFFER to change.

Good to hear... over, and over, and over again :yes
So hard sometimes to get past this thinking... to realize that they can learn without feeling "horrible" about what they just did.

[ShiriChayim]

I think especially at very young ages a LOT of it is centered around life skills and practicality. So for example, you make a mess you clean it up. This is a life skill. If you are not being safe you cannot be around people until you are (well...this is for older children). For my 19mos old right now our biggest thing is if she hits me, she gets put onto the floor.

I know that I personally tend to give feelings meaning they are not intended to have. So my child doesn't have to feel bad in order to learn how to act, but my child feeling bad doesn't mean I'm a big fat meanie :giggle I can separate the feelings from what needs to happen.

So then with my littles I look at each situation and ask myself, "What needs to happen?"

If they have hurt another child then what needs to happen is:

1) Stop the action causing the hurt
2) Calm down
3) Address the problem that started the situation
4) Apologize/make amends
5) Move on.

If they have made a mess they need to:

1) Stop making the mess
2) Clean it up
3) Find alternative appropriate outlet.

I think that a punitive mindset forgets about those last steps. We say, "Don't do that!" and give a punishment, and then send the child off to do what...same thing again? What have they learned? :shrug3 Nothing other than, "Mommy didn't like that" (whatever they have determined "that" to be-which too often isn't even what people were trying to punish them for in the first place :doh)

A question I often ask myself if, "If I were stuck in a similar situation how I would I want others to react to me? What would I do to make it right?" and use that to guide my actions with me children.

[rachelserine]

Subbing!! I need this thread! My three toddlers are at each other's throats.

The older one finds it fun (or something!) to butt bump or shove the twins over. Asher is super sensitive and cries to beat all. I remove J from the situation, tell him "We don't hit, we are gentle" but I just feel like he's not getting it. He's NOT verbal, his language skills are what mine were at 10 months old (he's 25 months) and it's hard to tell if he has any idea what I'm trying to communicate. I usually show him a gentle touch and script an apology then redirect to a new game or whatever.

It's just so good to hear again that a consequence doesn't have to make him sad or feel bad. And I'm so open to any ideas at this point.

[Punkie]

I think that a punitive mindset forgets about those last steps. We say, "Don't do that!" and give a punishment, and then send the child off to do what...same thing again? What have they learned? :shrug3 Nothing other than, "Mommy didn't like that" (whatever they have determined "that" to be-which too often isn't even what people were trying to punish them for in the first place :doh)

A question I often ask myself if, "If I were stuck in a similar situation how I would I want others to react to me? What would I do to make it right?" and use that to guide my actions with me children.

:yes

I remember reading a parenting book that had a metaphor that I really liked. They said to imagine that you had a job and your boss gave you a report to fill out. It has no directions, but you filled it out as best as you could. Your boss came in, yelled at you that it was all wrong, punished you and then left saying that it better be right the next time. Then, you tried another way to fill it out, the boss came in, yelled at you and punished you again. So, you try another way...

You get the idea. The point is that it'd be very frustrating to keep getting in trouble and never be shown the proper way to do something. Reading that really helped remind me to truly disciple rather than just discipline. I'm so far from perfect, but at least I'm aware of what I need to fix now, so I can be a little better...

[luvinmama]

I think the "shame" component it the hardest thing I internally struggle with. Just reminding myself that she already probably knows what she did wrong, I don't need to point it out to her again, kwim?

I have a difficult time thinking of appropriate consequences at this stage in the game. Yes, if she throws a toy, it's put away. But...what I deal with more often than not are temper tantrums when she doesn't get what she wants. And I continue to tell her "it's okay to be angry, but we don't hurt mama, ourselves or our toys. Here, you may hit the pillow or stomp on the ground if you're upset"

And sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, it escalates into me trying the comfort corner. But....that usually gets her going more and then we just try and find something different to do as a distraction. It's just a lot of repetitive behavior and kind of mind numbing some days. Sometimes, and I think this is in large part from my punitive upbringing, I feel like "disciplining" her for losing control of her emotions/anger. But every time I think of doing something I'll regret, I stop and get control of myself. :rockon I AM the adult and need to role model handling difficult situations gracefully.

Anyway, I loved the book. It's one I will be referencing for the rest of my life, I'm certain.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

A question I often ask myself if, "If I were stuck in a similar situation how I would I want others to react to me? What would I do to make it right?" and use that to guide my actions with me children.

I love this! Thank you for sharing! I am totally tucking this idea away in my toolbox. :heart

[WildFlower]

:cup

[SweetCaroline]

[QUOTE=Punkie;3696607]. One big paradigm shift is realizing that they don't need to SUFFER to change. God uses his love, grace and forgiveness to draw us in to him, and to change us to being more like Him. We are to model the same for our children.


isnt it true!! i could have and would have gone on suffering all.my.life. - had HE not stepped in and changed me :amen

[Maggirayne]

:cup

[KCMartha]

:cup

[curlymopmom]

:cup