Please read...please help!

[MommyInTraining]

I realized today that I am going to need a LOT of help. I have been reading a ton - in fact, every night until midnight (my cut-off time!), about grace based discipline, positive parenting, the AOLFF website, and GCM...and I believe in it, wholeheartedly! I understand it, I want to do it. But... I don't know if I can. I know that sounds bad...but let me explain...?

I was raised in a VERY punitive home. My mother basically operates and exists in shame and fear, and that's how I was "taught" about God and basically everything. I used to be a very fearful person (beneath a confident exterior actually) and couldn't make a decision to save my life. Anyway... my oldest daughter (2.5 currently) is one of those extremely sensitive/spirited kids. It has been quite the experience since the day we brought her home from the hospital! :giggle Spanking has NEVER worked...it has only seemed to enrage her more and make everything worse. I did start out relying on spanking very heavily (which I regret so deeply! :cry I mean, she's 2 1/2!! She should have NEVER been spanked thus far!!)

So now that I'm not spanking at all - I basically made a vow yesterday that I NEVER.AGAIN.WOULD.EVER.HIT.MY.CHILD... I know that's the right thing to do...but at the same time, quite honestly, I am a little nervous...um, no, actually scared!!! My parents are around quite a bit (we're only a 1/2 hour away from them) I am now having to figure out how to say something to back my mom off. My daughters seriously can't open their mouth - even with fun, normal kid-playing and laughter - without my mom abruptly shouting SHHHHHHHHHHH or running over the top of me to hush my kids, tell them to stop, knock it off or even to HIT them. I am at my whit's end with that, and dreading having to deal with it sternly at the same time... because ANY kind of correctional interaction with my mom many times previously over different issues in the past - even when it is done gently - sends her off...and I end up hanging up the phone crying, and then thinking, Wait, WHAT?! What just happened?!! So I am dreading this conversation that desperately needs to take place...that I am the parent, and that I will parent my kids when we are around, and that I would appreciate her quiet support in the background....and to NEVER run me over the discipline (spank) my kids.

My parents don't know that I am not spanking at all anymore and I have thought better of it prior to this point of making a big deal out of it, but it's to the point where I don't want them to watch my kids when I'm not around, if what my mom does when I am around is disturbing to me! And yet, I am dreading the conversation that needs to happen about this at the same time.

Not to mention that, but I do not know a SINGLE person where I live that thinks this way. Just tonight, we went over to some friends' house to play a card game together. They have a son just a few months younger then my oldest. My DD1 and he were playing on the couch behind us while we sat on the front edge of the couch and played cards at the coffee table (make sense?), and they were having a grand old time, playing and laughing and stumbling back and forth on the couch. We were interacting with them too in between playing cards. No one even thought about stopping it (which, after the fact, I would definitely do different next time something like this happens!)...and THEN...nobody saw it happen, but their son fell headfirst off the couch onto the concrete floor (yes, concrete, in their house...they have the stained concrete floors). My first reaction was to ask DD1, "Did you push him??!" She said she did. I looked at my friend to see if she saw what happened since I didn't, and she said "He would never have done that himself!" as she was understandably freaking out about him hitting his head like that. :( But, clearly, even though she didn't see it, she thought that my daughter pushed him as well and then instantly, there was the unspoken incredible pressure to soundly deal with my kid who had just pushed theirs headfirst onto a concrete floor!!! It was AWFUL. I did not yell, I did not hit, but I did scold, and told her very firmly to never push, even when playing, to be gentle with her hands, and that she was going to have to sit by me for awhile and not play. I seriously did not know what to do and was very aware that I was still being punitive. It ended up being a big melt-down after that, and we left about 15 minutes later. Which is fine.

But all this incredibly long post to say, I just don't know if I can take the pressure I feel from my parents and from ALL my friends. I feel alone in this...and even my husband, who was raised very gently by his father, has been the one resorting to spanking...and he's the one who was the most apprehensive about it to begin with!!! Tonight, right after the previous meltdown, he was trying to help/have DD1 pick up all the magnets from their fridge off the floor, and then I don't know what happened...next thing, I hear him being stern, then she hits him, he reacts, spanks, she has a giant meltdown...

Oh my gosh. Tonight I feel emotionally just worn out. I can deal with this on my own at home...but around friends? Around my family? I would like to just hide from people, and raise my children without the pressure. I KNOW that I shouldn't let the unspoken pressure from friends, and the very outspoken pressure from my parents get to me, and many times it doesn't...but I guess tonight I am just feeling fearful of what I know lies ahead: knowing my daughter is a very high needs/perceptive/sensitive/spirited child and now that I am not spanking, I fear the explosive screaming meltdowns will only get worse and more frequent and I honestly don't know if I can deal with that around anyone else outside the safety of my home...

My mom would say, Would you quit listening to all the psycho-babble and just do what the Bible says (controlling, punitive, spanking parenting)? My mom has literally said, regarding a younger sister of mine who had quite the temper growing up, that if she knew what kind of temper tantrums she threw when they weren't around she would have "beat the living hell out of her." And she's a Christian. That's how I was raised, people!! , how am I going to deal with this??! (For the record, my dad was much more gracious and I do not have a single memory of him every disciplining us in anger; with my mom, I don't have a single memory of discipline without anger. I'm sure there was some, but even my 4 brothers and sisters say the same...)

I am so sorry this is so long. But, help?? I don't even know what I'm asking for...just needed to talk.to.someone...

Thank you!! :phew

[Pearl In Oyster]

:hug2 I've had similar experiences being one of the only nonpunitive parents in a family of big Dobson followers, and know how stressful it can be.

You are making a huge shift in thinking and behavior and breaking with your family's norms. That is such a challenge. It's hard, but worth it! You can do it, with God's help and encouragement from GCM!:cheer

Regarding how you dealt with your daughter pushing the other child, I think this post I made regarding the effectivness of verbal reprimands for that kind of behavior might ease your mind a bit: http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?p=3647921#post3647921

Hindsight is 20/20 so short of prevention, I think your response was correct, and taking your daughter out of the situation and having her sit by you seems in line with the "you hit you sit" type of approach used by other mamas here on the board (depending on how neutral or shaming your words were). It's not punitive, it's just making sure everyone stays safe. Your daughter's big feelings in reaction to it doesn't change that. :hug2

[MarynMunchkins]

You have an amazing opportunity to not only show grace to your children, but your family and friends as well! :heart

If you need to take a break from most things and stay home to parent for a while, take the break. It's fine to step back from outside things in order to do things differently in your own home. Part of the reason GCM exists IS for the moms who don't have IRL support - it's so we can support and learn from each other. You aren't alone - and there's a good chance you can find someone else nearby from this board.

Take things one day at a time. :hug When you parent each day mindful of what God has called you to do, the overall goal is much less overwhelming.

[swimming with sharks]

You CAN do it!! Rely on God's strength to help you through. If you need to not see your mom as much, do it. You don't have to have a long drawn out conversation about it. "Mom, don't hit dd" "Mom, I'll take care of it" If she continues , Mom we're leaving I asked you to not disciple my child. Take said child into an unused room/bathroom and shut the door. God has given these children to you to discipline and be responsible for. Your mom doesn't have to like it, it's not her choice. :no:hugheart Praying for you as you go on your journey. :pray4:heart

[Llee]

For me, when I'm "in the moment" so to speak, I hit the floor. It satisfies my urges to hit without hitting my daughter. Really, spanking seems to be a physical release of pent-up anger that just makes the parent feel better.

Also, making sure I have had enough to eat and drink makes discipline issues a whole easier to head off or to manage.

For example, last week Dressy had 4 crying jags and Dancing had 2 crying jags before 8 a.m. I ran through HALT (are they Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired?) and settled on trying to cure the hunger part. Dressy had 2 hard-boiled eggs, one fried egg, some applesauce and 1/2 cup of blueberries. I think she might have had a banana too. Dancing had 1/3 cup of blueberries, some bananas and nursed a lot. I had a full bowl of food.

The rest of the morning, we were all good.

So for preventing situations where the want to spank comes out, HALT and an understanding of what is realistic in expectations is, has really helped us. We haven't spanked, we have made a firm commitment to not spank and that doesn't keep us from wanting to spank. But realizing my triggers and the utter ineffectiveness of spanking, has kept me, and dh, from spanking.

What may be helpful is posting specific situations and working through scripts and reactions. I know reading through those has helped me a lot.

[DoulaClara]

Rachel :hug2 I am so glad you are here! You've got a LOT to try to focus on at once!

As far as the GBD part goes, make it a journey to start today, rather than a goal that needs to be done absolutely perfectly with a deadline of IMMEDIATELY!!! Pick one big goal to work on (like transitions, or tantrums, or any other thing that leaves you tied in knots and tempted to spank or yell) and work on that one for a little while, and then move on to another one.

:hug2 A good way to start on the parents thing is to frame it in the context of, "I know you've been trying to help, but WE need to take charge of our house, and our kids need to know to answer to us. You can help us by taking a giant step back when a discipline issue crops up, and if you have questions about anything at all, feel free to talk to me AWAY from your granddaughter." And then make that your boundary and stick to it like glue! Boundaries are hard and awkward and bring up all the old childhood ghosts like you wouldn't believe, but once you do it, and then you stick to it, it gets easier. And, it gets easier to create new boundaries as you go along, too! Tell yourself beforehand that they are going to hate it, and they are going to throw giant-adult temper tantrums over not having things go the way they want it to go. And, you're the mama, and you know what's best for your family, so they can have their great big adult temper tantrums, but they can do it away from you. ;)

And finally, we do have some threads floating around that deal with working on you, and on your past, and on getting over the voices that start yelling into your ear when your child misbehaves or even just does the childlike things that used to call for punishment when you were a child. Let me see if my kiddos will let me do a quick search for them, and I'll link them here.

Baby steps, mama! You can do it! Your post sounds like you have such a fantastic heart for fixing past mistakes, and doing the right thing by your little girl. :heart

Here's a definition of re-parenting (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=341448&highlight=reparenting), by the GCM that coined it! BBL (or other people can help with the links!) when the babies are fed and occupied!

[rjy9343]

My family situation is the same. I am just ten hours instead of half an hour away from them. :hugheart You are doing a very courageous thing. You are right that spanking does not work.

[Peridot]

I am very lucky in that my parents have never been on top of us, so to speak.

I uinderstand where you are coming from, and I will tell you, if I can do it, and Loralee can do it, and Maggirayne can do it, and a whole host of other Mommas on this board can overcome their punitive tendencies, SO. CAN. YOU.!!!!! :yes :heart :hug :rockon

As for psychobabble- the controlling, manipulative spanking parenting paradigm IS the psychobabble!! :jawdrop It is NOT Biblical in any way...what an eyeopener for me, when I began to see that! :-/ The case for Grace based parenting can be made solely from Jesus' teachings about how we are to treat people, and from New Testament writings about how love acts and what the Fruits of the Holy Spirit are! :yes :happytears

ALso, two year olds hit, in my experience. Minimus, my DS2 hits, and he has never been struck. :no :woohoo Maximus, his older brother, hit us before we ever hit him. :shrug3 :cry

You, Momma, are not alone. :no :hug2 :heart

ETA- I think that the way you handled your DD psosibly having been responsible for hurting someone was not really punitive. You sat her beside you, making it possible for the other child to be safe, and for your DD to rest next to you, and keep herself from being unsafe.

[MommyInTraining]

Oh mamas, THANK YOU so much! I went to bed last night having written this with a heavy heart (I'm was pretty upset - I actually woke up in the middle of the night with my stomach in knots and threw up!!).... and then woke up to lots of support and replies this morning! I am so blessed by all of you who took the time to say something...it definitely makes me feel a lot better and that I really am not alone. :)

After all your replies about how I handled the situation with my DD, looking back, I think that you are right...I did handle that okay. It was when she wouldn't stay sitting with me, when I had to pick her up myself and put her back, that she went stiff and started screaming, that I felt a little more like, um, shoot, now what! Lol. I told her that I knew she was angry and sad about having to sit with mommy, but if she was going to scream, she could scream in this other room...and I put her there, shut the door and told her that I would come get her when she calms down. (Sometimes that helps after an initial worse response, sometimes it helps to hold her) I think all around it was just bad timing...we were wrapping up our games, kids were tired and ready for bed, etc...

Thank you for the link to the re-parenting...I will definitely look into that when I get a moment! I definitely hear the voices in my head over every little thing my DD does! I have been wondering if that is normal!!!

We are starting to go through the sass stage and she definitely makes us very aware about how she feels about things. Like if I have to tell her no, she can't have/do something, she'll furrow her little brow and do this pout/mad face with her lip stuck out. Lol. So, it's okay to allow her to do that, right? I mean, that seems pretty mild. My thought is that I should say something like, "I know you are sad that you don't get to do/have that. I'm sorry. We can find something else to have/do. Would you like to come with me?" And try to re-direct/re-focus her?

She is also starting to yell in a sassy way, "NO, mommy! NOOO!" If I ignore it, she will continue to do it, like she's begging for me to do something about it... I have not continued in the ignoring thing, because then I worry, okay, if I let her do this at home, what happens when we are out around friends/family?? So I want to do something about it...I have been telling her kindly but firmly that mommy can't hear her when she talks like that, that she can say "Yes, mommy" instead in a sweet or gentle voice.

Also, there's the screaming fits. She will absolutely rage, for lack of a better word! It is starting to get where if I catch it right away, I can coach her out of a major fit, but sometimes those giant meltdowns happen. Those are what I dread happening around friends/family. Friends, less so, because I just tell myself, "Like their kid doesn't do that!" lol...but around my family...yikes. I have started removing her AND myself from their presence, and I'll go upstairs into a bedroom to deal with things.

Other than that, they are very sweet, precious girls and I love them more and more every day that I'm doing GBD. I felt more and more frustrated and angry myself when I was doing things the other way. I definitely feel a renewed I AM NEVER GOING BACK this morning.

On a last note, I have a brag story! :D My mom was holding DD1 at church the other day (yes, we go to the same church!! :/ ) and my mom started to cry during worship. My sweet little girl put both hands on my mom's cheeks, then took my mom's hair and used it to dry her tears. My mom was SOOOO touched, and I was just swelling with pride. Wow. That's my sweet, sensitive, spirited first daughter!! :D

Thank you again SO MUCH everyone!! I look forward to the support at this site. You guys and GCM are great!

[DoulaClara]

...I think all around it was just bad timing...we were wrapping up our games, kids were tired and ready for bed, etc...


:heart You've got it! For me, that's sometimes one of the most difficult parts of being a parent. Right now in these early years, it's not about me. I can capture little snips and snatches of "Me Time" here and there, but for the most part, this season of small kids is about setting them up for success, and making sure they understand what sets them up for success so that as they get older, they can make it happen for themselves. It stinks, it makes us miss parts of movies and our dinner gets cold, and we have to excuse ourselves from a lot of fun things we used to be able to do, no sweat. But it's just a season, it will pass, and trust me that you will be better off and happier in the long run that you sacrificed these sorts of things now, rather than wishing back time with your littles, when they're older.

We are starting to go through the sass stage and she definitely makes us very aware about how she feels about things. Like if I have to tell her no, she can't have/do something, she'll furrow her little brow and do this pout/mad face with her lip stuck out. Lol. So, it's okay to allow her to do that, right? I mean, that seems pretty mild. My thought is that I should say something like, "I know you are sad that you don't get to do/have that. I'm sorry. We can find something else to have/do. Would you like to come with me?" And try to re-direct/re-focus her?

I wouldn't say it's "okay to allow her..." necessarily, but I would definitely say that it's something that is totally age-appropriate, and something to see as a developmental milestone- yay! She's discovering her likes/dislikes, she's finding her voice, and now it's the time to model and guide her into expressing it appropriately. You don't want to tell her that it's NOT allowed- because then what? Does she stuff her feelings? Pretend she's happy when she's not (and then will she ever know when her own feelings are genuine?) When she's older and she's navigating relationships, will she be so trained to do what looks good on the outside, that she doesn't recognize when to follow her gut instinct about another person? Your idea to re-script and define her emotion is very good, and so is the distract/redirect part. That's gold at this age! That might be a lot of words for this age, though (she's still so little!) A great book on speaking to toddlers is "Happiest Toddler on the Block" by Harvey Karp. I don't like (and don't do) "toddlerease," but the concept I do- something like, "You really wanted that heart jewelry! Not for us, not today. Let's go play with animals over here." Sweet and simple is always better- describe what they want (at an age where language is still developing, it's important that they know we "get" them and understand what they want), name their emotion, and redirect.

She is also starting to yell in a sassy way, "NO, mommy! NOOO!" If I ignore it, she will continue to do it, like she's begging for me to do something about it... I have not continued in the ignoring thing, because then I worry, okay, if I let her do this at home, what happens when we are out around friends/family?? So I want to do something about it...I have been telling her kindly but firmly that mommy can't hear her when she talks like that, that she can say "Yes, mommy" instead in a sweet or gentle voice.

I wouldn't necessarily ignore, but still do the "name what they want/name their emotion/re-direct" thing. Always having a Plan B for them to do is so crucial. Even if it means playing with your cell phone while in line to check out at the grocery.

Also, there's the screaming fits. She will absolutely rage, for lack of a better word! It is starting to get where if I catch it right away, I can coach her out of a major fit, but sometimes those giant meltdowns happen. Those are what I dread happening around friends/family. Friends, less so, because I just tell myself, "Like their kid doesn't do that!" lol...but around my family...yikes. I have started removing her AND myself from their presence, and I'll go upstairs into a bedroom to deal with things.

:yes Fabulous! Don't give family fodder to critique. They can make up their own imaginations about what transpires, and it doesn't need to be discussed. Remove her, help her re-center, and then find her a new activity. Especially when she's around a crowd, and stuff is going on, getting her away from the audience so that you can deal with her direct needs (HALT, or I like PHALT better- Potty/Diaper? Hungry? Angry? Lonely? Tired?) and get her out of the screaming.

:heart

[dukeofhazzard]

:hug You've gotten great advice and 'm sure you'll get more :yes, but I do have a suggestion for the issue of your mom disciplining the kids.

My mom wasn't hitting my kids or anything, but I was trying to establish GBD and didn't want anyone but DH or I disciplining at that stage in the game. So I told my mom that I really wanted her to enjoy being the grandma and not to have to worry about disciplining the kids. If they were doing something they shouldn't be, just to let me deal with it and she could be the grandma who spoils :giggle. She was honestly just trying to help me, so me 'letting her off the hook', so to speak, worked really well. I don't know if that will work with your mom or not. :)

[mountainash]

You've gotten great advice. I just wanted to add the importance of showing yourself grace. We mamas who were parented punitively come down on ourselves so hard. We demand perfection of ourselves. Trouble is, one can't effectively extend grace to another without first saturating themselves in grace.

Also, expect parenting to get harder the closer your oldest gets to three. When you start out GDing at two-and-a-half and three hits, it can be so easy to question, but remember that three is just plain challenging no matter how ya slice it.


On a last note, I have a brag story! :D My mom was holding DD1 at church the other day (yes, we go to the same church!! :/ ) and my mom started to cry during worship. My sweet little girl put both hands on my mom's cheeks, then took my mom's hair and used it to dry her tears. My mom was SOOOO touched, and I was just swelling with pride. Wow. That's my sweet, sensitive, spirited first daughter!! :D


Awh! You get to opportunity to nurture that compassion and watch it grow! :heart :rockon

[MommyInTraining]

Thank you again, all, for the great responses, encouragement and advice. I feel SOOO much better today and more prepared, I think.

Doula Clara - some excellent insight! Thank you for that!

And Mountain Ash, I know, I've heard 3 and 4 are the worst. It seems everyone is telling me that, and I am dreading it. We will see. I do know that God is all wise and all knowing and all patient so my plan is to be praying hard and often for His grace and wisdom each moment...

God bless you all... :heart

[ArmsOfLove]

At the root of things I would suggest two things . . . first, let yourself grow up and be the parent and stop worrying about being the child :heart. You *are* the mommy. Your mom had her turn--this is yours. It's okay to do it how you choose to do it and it's NOT disrespectful to tell her kindly and firmly to back off ;) GBD her "You need to let me parent. I'm responsible before God for them, not you." "Can you stop yourself or do you need my help?" :grin

Second, give yourself and your children the dignity of privacy :heart Remove yourselves. So what if for the time being everyone thinks you're spanking them :rolleyes Get the pressure off by removing the witnesses. Take the time to collect yourself, let them collect themselves. Deal with it. Then go back when you're all on your game again :heart

[MommyInTraining]

I can't figure out how to quote in a reply yet (I'm sure it's super obvious, but the multi-quote button doesn't do anything?? Lol)...but wanted again to say thank you to all who took the time to reply. I have been reading everything I possibly can the past twenty-four hours and I definitely feel better and more confident. I am SOOO grateful to have a resource like this to continually refer to!! Thank you Lord!!

Arms of Love - you are right... :) Time to put the "big girl panties on".

I think I was just in an emotional rut the other night and needed to vent, but I can't imagine not dealing with my momma. It's just never pleasant is all. :/ I have definitely decided to keep all these new ideas and thoughts to myself unless someone asks and to avoid any debates over spanking/not spanking. No need, as you ladies encouraged!! Short and sweet will be the easiest way to handle my mom's "help". :)

I just ordered Ross Campbell's How to Really Parent Your Child and How to Really Love Your Angry Child tonight on amazon.com and I CAN'T WAIT for them to get here! Next on the list would be Clay and Sally Clarkson's Heartfelt Discipline (I think that's what it's called?). Too bad the library doesn't have these!

Blessings! <3

[Kiara.I]

To multi quote, click the Multi Quote button on all the ones you want to quote, and then click Quote on the last one. The Quote button will trigger the actual reply window, with all the other ones you flagged as Multi Quote included in it (as well as the one you Quoted.) Make sense? :hug

Glad you're feeling better about things. It can be a long process of detoxing, reparenting yourself, and learning to set (and KEEP) boundaries with other people outside your family. Keep coming here for support! :tu

[MommyInTraining]

To multi quote, click the Multi Quote button on all the ones you want to quote, and then click Quote on the last one. The Quote button will trigger the actual reply window, with all the other ones you flagged as Multi Quote included in it (as well as the one you Quoted.) Make sense? :hug

Glad you're feeling better about things. It can be a long process of detoxing, reparenting yourself, and learning to set (and KEEP) boundaries with other people outside your family. Keep coming here for support! :tu


Woo hoo!!! Thank you for the tip!

Yes, I am finding it is a HUGE process...so much of the way I "automatically think" comes from ways I was raised too, I think, so it's been huge to take a step back and really think about things from a different perspective. In my opinion this is way harder than default spanking for every little offense!

I will *definitely* be coming here frequently! I think I found a new addiction... :shifty :lol