so what DO you do with a strong wiilled child?

[SweetCaroline]

just that?
my daughter wants to run the show. and when you try to let her have input..she slowly.takes. o-v-e-r.. its really hard to give her an inch, because she cant help but go for a mile. its like she really cant help herself?? its almost like shes unteachable. now shes starting to lie, sneak, annd get all shifty- just to avoid our household rules. #reallypushingmybuttons
she's one who really wants justice. i do think thats areally neat trait. so how i make that work towards our advantage?
how can we approach discipline with her?
if anyone needs more details, i'll give them. :heart

[Peridot]

Congratulations! you have a future Leader on your hands. :clap :heart

Give her some areas of clear responsibility. And keep yours clear, too. I'm so glad you've chosen GBD for her. :yes

(sorry I'm not much help)

:shifty

[mommylobster]

:hug

How old is she?

[SweetCaroline]

shes 3.5

[Marsha]

I have one of those! She's a total boundary pusher with a strong sense of justice! I'm subbing for wisdom!

[Peridot]

shes 3.5


:there2 :giggle

well, at 4.5 Maximus is now negotiating for things. He's good too. :lol

[bolt.]

At that point, I think that the best approach involves a very clear deliniation of "That's your decision to make." --and-- "That's not your decision to make."

Also, you can re-frame your rules to not sound like limits, but to sound like a choice with two valid options... one option can be an "it's not going to work out well for you" option, but it should still feel like an option, not a wrong-disobedient-evil-you-just-can't-do-that sort of thing.

Example: "You can choose to leave your toys on the floor, or you can choose to put them away. If you choose to put them away, they will be there for you later. If you choose to leave them out on the floor, I will put them on top of the fridge."

When you want her to have "input" -- tell her exactly what you are doing. You are asking for her opinion, so that you can think about it and make your decision. Respond by saying, "Thank you for telling me your idea. This is my decsion, and I've decided <whatever>." <-- Then it will be clear that she can't 'take over' your decision no matter how many words she uses to try and do so.

(Later you can work with concepts like honesty, integrity, justice, duty, authority, and the supiriority of God. It's just too early for that at 3.)

[SweetCaroline]

ok, its more like this:

i tell her "please use the other side of that paper before you get another piece."
she cries, wimpers, wants a different piece of paper. stomps off back to the table
a second later comes out wadding the paper up
says "im gonna throw this away"

all this just to not have to use the other side of the paper

Bolt: that much talking *wont* work with her. shes NOT a communicator. she's really, really bright. but very emotionally immature? meaning, i really dont think she "gets" much even, simple logic yet. and she immediately starts crying every time you try to correct her.
shes my only girl..so?? this is really wierd for me to try and deal with :/
my boys are sooo easy to talk to and reason with.

[Maggirayne]

Have you read the 3 year old Sticky? That might have some helpful ideas. Threes are just plain into opposite of what they're told and need a lot of help.

As a strong-willed child, I desperately wish my mom had read Cynthia Ulrich Tobias' You can't Make Me (But I Can Be Persuaded) (http://www.amazon.com/You-Cant-Make-Persuaded-Strong-Willed/dp/1578561930/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296015448&sr=8-1). I read it a few years ago (prekids) and bawled my eyes out.

[bolt.]

i tell her "please use the other side of that paper before you get another piece." she cries, wimpers, wants a different piece of paper. stomps off back to the table a second later comes out wadding the paper up says "im gonna throw this away" all this just to not have to use the other side of the paper
OK -- you started that conflict. You started it by telling her to do something whether she wanted to or not, with no options -- and it's clearly about 'play' which is something that should be very much mostly 'her' decision-making 'territory'.

What would have happened if you said, "The paper is mine. You can have more soon. Do you want to know how to get another piece?"

she immediately starts crying every time you try to correct her.
I hear that, but there is really no reason to be 'correcting' a 3 year old. What stops you from choosing a different communication pattern? -- Preferably one that focuses on simple declarations, mostly about you and what you are going to do (or not do) depending on her choices.

For example, if you would normally 'correct' her for playing with her food -- just skip that step and say something like, "You are playing with your food. Instead you can eat-tidy and keep your food. If you keep playing, I will take your plate away."

^ That would be a "simple declaration, mostly about you and what you are going to do (or not do) depending on her choices".

[saturnfire16]

ok, its more like this:

i tell her "please use the other side of that paper before you get another piece."
she cries, wimpers, wants a different piece of paper. stomps off back to the table
a second later comes out wadding the paper up
says "im gonna throw this away"

all this just to not have to use the other side of the paper


How about starting with "Here are 5 pieces of paper you can use for drawing right now. If you use both sides, you'll have more room to draw." And then let her use both sides or not, but she has as much paper as you are willing to give her right then.

OR just give her more paper. It's just paper, it's cheap. If you really want to make sure the other side gets used, put it in a pile of scratch paper for either her or you to use another day.

I know this is about more than the one situation, but apply the same principles to everything. If it's not a hill to die on, don't start the battle. Word things in a way so that you can work *with* her on a solution by stating what you want and giving her room to state what she wants and work it out. Then on the *truly* non-negotiables, just state that this is the way it is, you can do it yourself or mommy can help you.

[Elora]

make it seem fun and exciting

instead of "please use the other side of that paper before you get another piece"

first try "HEY! I KNOW! this paper would be BEAUTIFUL if we color the other side too!!! what color should we use first? want some stickers?!"

in situations where skillfull persuasion isn't working, i use as few words as possible :shifty for example, if she refuses to color the other side even after i've presented it as the awesomest most fun thing ever, then i state plainly that there will be no more paper until she uses the other side (as you did above) and if she defiantly balls it up and throws it away "ok then all done coloring. what would you like to do now?" as i put away the paper and crayons. this is sometimes (often) met with a periodic meltdown by my very determined little girl, but that's ok. i console her and or redirect her when she will let me... sometimes she prefers to work through it on her own and i simply tell her to let me know if she needs hugs

[Auroras mom]

Having a strong will is a good thing. :) She is 3 also, so that sort of exemplifies three year olds anyway. Anyway, I prefer the term spirited, as it has less negative connotations, especially within the Christian community.

I recommend readng Raising Your Spirited child in order to get a better understanding of what makes her tick. I also agree with the previous posters that it is best to not engage in adversarial situations, but to give choices, stay upbeat, and try not to push her into a corner unless it is something essential (safety, something that you absolutely can't tolerate, etc.).

[klpmommy]

I have a 3.5 y/o, too. It is such a challenging age no matter what. Be sure to read the 3 y/o sticky in Little Explorers.

Strong willed = difficult job for parents. But it also = great things later in life. The world needs more strong willed women!!!!!

At that age my kids have never liked drawing on the back of the paper, but they don't care what size the paper is so I often cut large papers into smaller ones so there is less waste. We also do a lot of art outside on the sidewalk with chalk, draw on the aquadoodle, use a paintbrush and water to paint on the tile floor, etc, etc, etc. Lots of other ways to do art without using as much paper. ;)

I also want to suggest really listening to her. Why didn't she want to draw on the other side? In her mind, she might have a really good reason.

One other thing, when my kids (of any age) are really, really, REALLY pushing my buttons, it nearly always means that our connection is low. So I need to work on my connection with them. I need to stop what I am doing, do something special with them that they really enjoy. Many times, that is enough to help.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------


first try "HEY! I KNOW! this paper would be BEAUTIFUL if we color the other side too!!! what color should we use first? want some stickers?!"


:yes Being playful is *great* for 3.5 y/o's.

[mommylobster]

How about starting with "Here are 5 pieces of paper you can use for drawing right now. If you use both sides, you'll have more room to draw." And then let her use both sides or not, but she has as much paper as you are willing to give her right then.

OR just give her more paper. It's just paper, it's cheap. If you really want to make sure the other side gets used, put it in a pile of scratch paper for either her or you to use another day.

I know this is about more than the one situation, but apply the same principles to everything. If it's not a hill to die on, don't start the battle. Word things in a way so that you can work *with* her on a solution by stating what you want and giving her room to state what she wants and work it out. Then on the *truly* non-negotiables, just state that this is the way it is, you can do it yourself or mommy can help you.

yah this :yes

My DS is strong willed also (he's 4.5 now and he is much more agreeable lately). Trying different playful parenting ideas were really helpful for us. For example when DS used to refuse to brush his teeth I tried "I don't want to get slimed! I'll get slimed if you brush your teeth! oh no!" and he thought it was the funniest thing ever that I got pretend slimed whenever I brushed his teeth for a few seconds, he even started throwing the slime :giggle
To brush entirely I got slimed a lot :giggle but it worked well.

I would say that all lot of what seems like "defiance" really isn't. She may have a very good reason according to her that she doesn't want to color on the other side of the page.

It is good to set boundaries but I found that if I set the boundaries on the stuff that really mattered, like safety things, health things, kind things (for example: hitting) then that was enough. I allowed him to make as many decisions as possible and had to let go of a lot of things (for example: normally you would try to conserve paper waste but you might want to consider letting it go to avoid the upset). In my opinion, letting her "have her way" more often will not make her selfish later on. In our experience it has been the opposite. I feel like he has seen us be kind and flexible to him and now he is doing the same for us (there could be a lot more factors that affect this, one of which could very well be that he is older).


huge hugs to you :hug I understand how challenging this time is with a strong willed child. I used to remind myself that I would appreciate that strong will when it came to peers. Strong will is a beautiful trait but it is hard when they are little.

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

sorry, I didn't mean to be repetitive, I think we posted at the same time :D

[saturnfire16]

In my opinion, letting her "have her way" more often will not make her selfish later on. In our experience it has been the opposite. I feel like he has seen us be kind and flexible to him and now he is doing the same for us (there could be a lot more factors that affect this, one of which could very well be that he is older).



:yes At 3.5, not so much, but now at 5 yes! When I present what I need or what her sister needs as a simple statement of fact, she will often selflessly relinquish what she wants.

[Peridot]

ok, its more like this:

i tell her "please use the other side of that paper before you get another piece."
she cries, wimpers, wants a different piece of paper. stomps off back to the table
a second later comes out wadding the paper up
says "im gonna throw this away"

all this just to not have to use the other side of the paper

Bolt: that much talking *wont* work with her. shes NOT a communicator. she's really, really bright. but very emotionally immature? meaning, i really dont think she "gets" much even, simple logic yet. and she immediately starts crying every time you try to correct her.
shes my only girl..so?? this is really wierd for me to try and deal with :/
my boys are sooo easy to talk to and reason with.


Trust me, she 'gets' more than you think.

I got Maximus a marker board. no waste. :shrug3 And if he wants to draw another picture, he has to erase what he's already done. Which he does with glee. :giggle I also got them window markers. they can draw until they run out of windows, or markers. I don't often give them paper. But rolls of newsprint are pretty cheap if she MUST have paper, just- as pp have said, set the limit before hand in such a way- "do you want two peices of paper, or just one?" :giggle

A chalkboard is a similar, self limiting, wasteless drawing format.


Its unusual for a 3.5 to have reasoning capacity. They have relatively little information to work with, and things seem so simple to them sometimes its maddening for us. But no, you can't exp;ain, or reach a consensus on everyhting- which is, it seems to me- what you are attempting.

there are going to be times where you will need to simply state what WILL be happening, and let hwer have her big feelings. :hug2

She will AMAZE you, someday soon- guaranteed. :heart

[Annainprogress]

:popcorn DD has definitely been allowed to get away with a lot more than DS was to avoid triggering meltdowns, and we're close to 3 yo now (development there already really lol)

[SweetCaroline]

Trust me, she 'gets' more than you think.

I got Maximus a marker board. no waste. :shrug3 And if he wants to draw another picture, he has to erase what he's already done. Which he does with glee. :giggle I also got them window markers. they can draw until they run out of windows, or markers. I don't often give them paper. But rolls of newsprint are pretty cheap if she MUST have paper, just- as pp have said, set the limit before hand in such a way- "do you want two peices of paper, or just one?" :giggle

A chalkboard is a similar, self limiting, wasteless drawing format.


Its unusual for a 3.5 to have reasoning capacity. They have relatively little information to work with, and things seem so simple to them sometimes its maddening for us. But no, you can't exp;ain, or reach a consensus on everyhting- which is, it seems to me- what you are attempting.

there are going to be times where you will need to simply state what WILL be happening, and let hwer have her big feelings. :hug2

She will AMAZE you, someday soon- guaranteed. :heart

telling myself she doesnt get it- helps me assign positive intent..:-/

[saturnfire16]

telling myself she doesnt get it- helps me assign positive intent..:-/

There's getting it and then there's getting it. 3 year olds understand a LOT more than they can communicate back to you. On the other hand, just because they understand something, doesn't mean they have a frame of reference for why that information is important, how it affects you and why they should care that it does, or have the impulse control to do anything with the information.

[SweetCaroline]

There's getting it and then there's getting it. 3 year olds understand a LOT more than they can communicate back to you. On the other hand, just because they understand something, doesn't mean they have a frame of reference for why that information is important, how it affects you and why they should care that it does, or have the impulse control to do anything with the information.
i think the hardest part is all the crying.something really basic, that i KNOW she is familiar with (because she sees it everyday with her brothers)
me: please dont stand in the chair, you will fall..like rex did at lunch, remember?
her : (immediately starts crying)
me: no, its ok, calm down, i just dont want you to get hurt..
her: not.even.listening. just crying

its soooo frusterating!! its been this way forEVER. i feel like i cant even talk to her to even raise her, or teach her how to do anything. its just crying.

[mommylobster]

i think the hardest part is all the crying.something really basic, that i KNOW she is familiar with (because she sees it everyday with her brothers)
me: please dont stand in the chair, you will fall..like rex did at lunch, remember?
her : (immediately starts crying)
me: no, its ok, calm down, i just dont want you to get hurt..
her: not.even.listening. just crying

its soooo frusterating!! its been this way forEVER. i feel like i cant even talk to her to even raise her, or teach her how to do anything. its just crying.

In this instance you could try saying something like "chairs are for sitting" or try something playful like "rocketshipping" her off the chair, through the air and back onto the floor :shrug

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

Seeing as she is very sensitive to words I think playful ideas would work well. A lot of the things, even the crying, are most likely stages. All the same they are very hard and draining. Are you taking time for yourself? Do you have someone that can watch the kids so you can take time for yourself?

[SweetCaroline]

In this instance you could try saying something like "chairs are for sitting" or try something playful like "rocketshipping" her off the chair, through the air and back onto the floor :shrug

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

Seeing as she is very sensitive to words I think playful ideas would work well. A lot of the things, even the crying, are most likely stages. All the same they are very hard and draining. Are you taking time for yourself? Do you have someone that can watch the kids so you can take time for yourself?
no. i really dont get time by myself. but, my parents take her & the 4 yr old for several days at a time occasionally...its :heart :giggle

[Peridot]

i think the hardest part is all the crying.something really basic, that i KNOW she is familiar with (because she sees it everyday with her brothers)
me: please dont stand in the chair, you will fall..like rex did at lunch, remember?
her : (immediately starts crying)
me: no, its ok, calm down, i just dont want you to get hurt..
her: not.even.listening. just crying

its soooo frusterating!! its been this way forEVER. i feel like i cant even talk to her to even raise her, or teach her how to do anything. its just crying.


I would not be comforting her when she cries right away. I would say, "yOu do not want to get down. Standing in chairs is not safe." And then I walk away. That happens here frequently with Minimus. I say get down, and help him, and he throws a crying or screaming fit.

He can have his big feelings, but I don't have to stay and give him an audience. :shrug3

[klpmommy]

I comfort real crying while enforcing the boundary. S also has a very fake cry that I either ignore or tell her to stop. :shrug

Sometimes when S is crying I let her do it for a couple of minutes, but once I can tell she is still really crying but milking it I start to play our "lip game" together. It's a game she made up and loves. "Show me sad lips!" We both stick out our lower lip. "Show me happy lips!" We both smile. "Show me fish lips!" "Show me kissy lips!" etc.

[Beth1231]

*files away lips game for later*

My 3.5 yr old girl goes through whiny/cries easily stages too. It's almost always related to one of three things:

1. Needing a snack (preferably protein)
2. Needing time with Mommy (puzzles, games, books, art, etc)
3. Needing to get OUT of the tiny apartment and into the fresh air for a bit

:hug It can be maddening because I'm not an overly emotional sort of person and the crying annoys me honestly. I try to remember that it's not personal, she's not trying to annoy me and it's okay to have big feelings about a boundary. And then I try to do one of those three above things as quickly as possible :shifty

[SweetCaroline]

its not so much the crying itself..although it gets *really* old.
its more that the ears are shut- and i know trying to talk is no good.
BUT..before you say.."wait til shes done"
its not that simple.. if i bring it up when shes done crying. she just starts up again.:doh
sometimes i feel like we the parents are just here to throw her some food once in a while, because she wont allow us to teach her anything..sigh

im joking of course, but its really that frusterating

[mommylobster]

im joking of course, but its really that frusterating

totally :hug2

[J3K]

are you afraid of her tears ? In the "get off the chair" case you cited , I would've just let her cry. She's not hurt , she's disappointed...and that's okay. I don't care if others looking on think I'm mean because my child is crying.

I also "made it happen' A LOT when they were that age. I wouldn't ASK "please stay off the chair", I'd pick them up and while putting them on the floor (with sound effects or something silly) say "chairs are for bottoms only." She doesn't have a choice in the matter , so why would I ask ?

This helped me greatly :
Asking is when people have a choice in the matter.
Telling is when they don't have a choice.

Asking is "do you want to wear the blue shoes or the red shoes ?"

Telling is "you need to wear your shoes."

Asking is " Please , I need you to get down off the table."

Telling is "get down now please. Tables aren't for standing." (Pick up and move child)

[Beth1231]

And I respectfully submit that you are teaching her things by your actions and words that she is slowly internalizing as the day to day grind goes by...

Mommy is here when you're sad and when you're happy
It's okay to be upset about a boundary, Mommy is bigger than your emotions and will hold firm

You're teaching her that your love is unconditional (even when she's three) and that she can trust you :heart

[bolt.]

me: please dont stand in the chair,
Again, a direct command, without any dignity, choice or 'out'. This is not the way that is most effective in speaking to a strong willed child. Try instead, "I see that your feet are on your chair. You are standing. That makes me scared. Do you want to know why?"

me: no, its ok, calm down,
Can you read here that your attempt to offer comfort to her consists of not one, but two direct instructions, without dignity or options and a flat 'no'? Instead try, "Yes, I see that idea bothers you. Your feelings are very loud. Could they be quieter? Can I hug or help you?"

I really want you to see that a change in your vocabulary and grammar is really really likely to make a big difference in her reactions.

I'm not saying you caused this. The kind of talk you are using is totally normal and works fine for most kids. It's just that you've got a kid with a strong sense of self, self-determination and personal dignity. She will be much happier if you find ways to avoid directly asserting yourself over and against her.

In my thinking, it's best to start that now, before she has a chance to fully internalize the dynamic of 'the world and my family are over-and-against me'.

Of course, your authority over your daughter exists, and there are times for using it in a direct manner. I'm not saying you can never give a direct instruction... I'm saying that it is wisest to save it for the things that really call for it -- and not to use it for daily household management... and especially not as an attempt to comfort her.

[bolt.]

I just re-read that post, and it sounded really harsh and pointed. Almost blaming or acting like what I saw should be clear and obvious to any person.

I want to apologize. I did not mean to come across that way. I should have found a way to teach my ideas more gently. I am often overly blunt and/or pointed when I'm just trying to communicate with clarity.

[SweetCaroline]

i actually thought it sounded fine. you're very direct. thats what makes you sound credible. you'd be a good cult leader.

just kidding :P~

[Quiteria]

Saying "chairs are for sitting" and moving her IS teaching her. She doesn't like it, and she's not going to comply the first hundred times, but eventually she will sit, and she'll probably even tell the 2yo "chairs are for sitting" when she catches her sibling standing...it's just going to take a while.

[SweetCaroline]

well, she NEVER does that. 2 yr old does it *always* its not an area i want to battle him on. (seem unfair?)
she did it just that once, and i just reminded her to sit. because we do see him fall quite a bit.
its more that she cries every.time you give her any instruction.

i just need to work on how i approach her. same instruction, different packaging

[J3K]

Tears whenever you give instruction will most likely happen no matter how you package it. Sounds like it's part of her personality AND it's part of being two.

The key , I found for me , was not to be scared of their tears. Tears didn't mean I was a horrible mommy , or that I broke her heart , or that I'd messed up this mom thing. Tears just meant my two year old didn't have the vocabulary to express their disappointment.

By the third child I'd learned to communicate everything and validate. As a result I had a three year old that would say things like "I'm feeling upset you took away my crayons. I was only trying to have some fun."
(combine ap with an extremely verbal child and that's what you get...) :grin

If it makes you feel better , my second child just continued to cry. OR she'd save the tears and give them all to her Daddy when he came home and mutter "She (meaning me) wouldn't let me have chococo milk."

[arymanth]

well, she NEVER does that. 2 yr old does it *always* its not an area i want to battle him on. (seem unfair?)
she did it just that once, and i just reminded her to sit. because we do see him fall quite a bit.
its more that she cries every.time you give her any instruction.

i just need to work on how i approach her. same instruction, different packaging


As a long-time veteran mom let me tell you, phrasing is EVERYTHING!!! (for ANY age!) If you have a child who is sensitive to being told to do something, then you need to find a way to get them to do it without making it a point of obedience where she feels she has to submit her will to yours and you lose the point of the exercise, which is what you need her to do. If she is standing on a chair, and you have already gone over the "chairs are for sitting, floors are for standing" rules, you could try asking her where her feet go. "Your seat goes on the chair's seat... you wouldn't want someone to put their icky feet on YOUR seat, would you? (playfully pinch bottom) Noooo, seats are for sitting, feet are for floors. " (all said while you gently take her down from the chair and redirect her to a different activity) If this still makes her cry (sensitive to being told she is doing it wrong), you could just ask "where does your seat go? Where do your feet go?" and let her correct herself. If this does not work, you could try something playful like making the chair talk to her "OWWWW, you are getting your stinky, dirty feet all over me! Get off! Get off! HELP!!! Stinky kid attack! Somebody help!!!!" Then you can swoop in and "rescue" the chair from her vicious foot attack. :) Or you could try making her "in charge of chair seat protection" to make sure no one messes up the chair seats with their dirty shoes/feet. (making it more about protecting the chair, less about "you are doing something wrong") Sometimes being in charge of something helps them change their own behavior. Sometimes all it takes is redirecting her attention to a more interesting activity to replace the unwanted one. If you don't want her standing on the chair, give her something to do that requires being on the floor. Crisis averted, and when she does get old enough for you to explain the safety issues behind what you want, you can start using the reasoning approach then when it will be more appropriate to her ability level. Eventually she WILL understand why it is dangerous and why not to do it.

There are sooooo many different approaches you could try, and when you find the one that works best, you can tweak it to apply in different situations. But don't get stuck in the trap of trying to get her to give in and happily (or just not crying) accept you telling her what to do. At this age, for these kinds of kids, that is just not a reasonable expectation. My own highly-sensitive daughter went through that, she would have a meltdown if I didn't give her the right color cup or if I cut her pancake the wrong way (not in SQUARES, like a PIZZA!) and if I told her to do something or stop doing something, she would break down in a 20 minute sob fest and refused to be comforted. She is almost 12 now, and still pretty sensitive, but she did eventually grow up to the point that I could reason with her, and after that her meltdowns sharply decreased.... I'd say somewhere between 4-5 years it really got better. Being patient and playful with her and not trying to insist that she see or do things my way really helped minimize the frustration while she was still working on her maturity level. You will NOT raise a brat child just because you don't force her to comply at this age. She will not be the same in a year as she is now... give her time to grow up a bit.

[bolt.]

Ahhh... Now I see ^that^ would have been how to express what I was trying to get at, and manage to be gentle at the same time.

Thanks, arymanth!

[mommylobster]

you could try something playful like making the chair talk to her "OWWWW, you are getting your stinky, dirty feet all over me! Get off! Get off! HELP!!! Stinky kid attack! Somebody help!!!!" Then you can swoop in and "rescue" the chair from her vicious foot attack. :) Or you could try making her "in charge of chair seat protection" to make sure no one messes up the chair seats with their dirty shoes/feet. (making it more about protecting the chair, less about "you are doing something wrong") Sometimes being in charge of something helps them change their own behavior.


I love this! Very creative and playful...and funny :giggle

[J3K]

In our house when it became clear none of my other methods were working...we developed the Chair Game. Out of sheer desperation.

Chairs are for bottoms.
See how many chairs we have in the house.
Go put your bottom on all the chairs in the house.
(and for the Rules Thread... no , you have to wear pants or you can't play)

The look of joy on their faces as they bounced from seat to seat was priceless. Then the look they all gave each other when they realized they'd left off the toilet...and the subsequent scramble to be the first to sit on the toilet....

Sigh.

I actually miss those days. Time has a way of making all the bad stuff disappear.

[SweetCaroline]

One other thing, when my kids (of any age) are really, really, REALLY pushing my buttons, it nearly always means that our connection is low. So I need to work on my connection with them. I need to stop what I am doing, do something special with them that they really enjoy. Many times, that is enough to help.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------
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thats actually the heart of the problem. i have always had connection problems with this one. its a looong story. :( but- if i could just form a solid relationship w/ her..i know it would get better all the way around

[J3K]

Things that helped me :
* Getting rid of the mindset that the child is "doing things to make me react." Either I'm weak enough to allow a small child to manipulate me , or I have demon spawn who live to make me miserable. Adopting the mindset that they are kids and kids need attention really helped me.

*ignoring the dishes/laundry/cleaning and instead using that time to sit with the child and do something specific. Giving them ten minutes at the top of each hour was an amazing remedy. Read a book , play with playdough , do a craft , snuggle super big , etc... Just ten minutes. I was surprised at how quickly this trick worked , and how easily I fell into the routine. At first I was thinking "TEN MINUTES are you freaking kidding me?" First of all I don't want to spend ten minutes with this child and secondly TEN MINUTES is a lifetime. Then I tried it. It took two days. After that I forgot to look at the clock and the children were much better behaved.

*Choosing when I'd speak. After awhile I realized I'd been talking non stop. Didn't matter what I said , it was just white noise to them. So I stopped talking unless I "had" to. Once I had their attention again (it took a few days) I could start to dialogue with them again.

* I stopped telling my problems with this child to every person who'd listen. Especially my parents. The advice I was getting was contrary to my core beliefs ( see the first thing) and it their unwanted advice served to a) make me frustrated and b) gave them permission to bring it up whenever they wanted. To anyone who asked we were "fine". If I felt they needed more , or I wanted to give more , they got a generic "You know xx year olds. It's hard work , but I"m loving it."

* I stopped referring to this particular child as a difficult child. I'd never said it aloud , but in my head I truly needed to stop. They weren't little imps , they were children who needed attention and understanding. Redoing that thought took a while , but I'm glad I made the effort. I was finally able to see my child as a unique , fun , individual with the same ups and downs we all have.

[saturnfire16]

In our house when it became clear none of my other methods were working...we developed the Chair Game. Out of sheer desperation.

Chairs are for bottoms.
See how many chairs we have in the house.
Go put your bottom on all the chairs in the house.
(and for the Rules Thread... no , you have to wear pants or you can't play)

The look of joy on their faces as they bounced from seat to seat was priceless. Then the look they all gave each other when they realized they'd left off the toilet...and the subsequent scramble to be the first to sit on the toilet....

Sigh.

I actually miss those days. Time has a way of making all the bad stuff disappear.

In my house, this game would be FAR more dangerous and problematic than just letting them stand on the chair. I can just see my 5 year old and 2 year old bouncing from chair to chair, knocking them over and fighting over them. :doh It's still a good suggestion though! For someone who only has one kid, or only one kid this age or multiple kids who won't rip each other's heads off trying to be the first to sit on a chair. But it leads into what I was coming back to this thread to say....

You've got to know your kids and what is *actually* dangerous vs. what is perceived danger or just a societal message of "we just don't do that" with no real reason why. I let my kids stand on chairs. They often eat standing up. :shrug3 They don't do it at other people's houses or restaurants. :no But for a reasonably coordinated 3 or even 2 year old, its really not that dangerous. Certainly not as dangerous as the 8 foot high playground equipment they stand on. Letting go of rules that have no reason is a huge thing with kids like this. They want reason and if there is a logical reason they will usually see the light when it's explained to them. If it's arbitrary, they see no reason to follow the rule and "just because" doesn't go far.

[klpmommy]

thats actually the heart of the problem. i have always had connection problems with this one. its a looong story. :( but- if i could just form a solid relationship w/ her..i know it would get better all the way around


*ignoring the dishes/laundry/cleaning and instead using that time to sit with the child and do something specific. Giving them ten minutes at the top of each hour was an amazing remedy. Read a book , play with playdough , do a craft , snuggle super big , etc... Just ten minutes. I was surprised at how quickly this trick worked , and how easily I fell into the routine. At first I was thinking "TEN MINUTES are you freaking kidding me?" First of all I don't want to spend ten minutes with this child and secondly TEN MINUTES is a lifetime. Then I tried it. It took two days. After that I forgot to look at the clock and the children were much better behaved.


I think this is an excellent way to start reconnecting. :hug It really does help a ton.

There are many times when P is going all out crazy on me, pushing buttons for me and everyone else in the house. And all I do is grab him, wrap him in my arms, kiss the top of his head and whisper in his ear how much I love him, how fun he is, how I am glad he is funny & silly.....then I let go. It is one of the best things I can do for *both* of us. He usually calms down and melts in my arms and I remember how wonderful he really is. :heart

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

Oh, and if I think with my vision of things *only*, well, P isn't so wonderful then. :no He is very type 1, very ENFP, very immature, all boy.....so many things that are just *different* than me. It is *easier* for me to appreciate E b/c she is more like me.

BUT, I try to turn around how I view P into positives: he is gregarious, he is outgoing, he is an entertainer, he is everyone's friend, he is able to take anything and make it fun. He's going to be a great salesman, politician or customer service person some day. Those are all *wonderful* things. And often I have to take deep breaths and remind myself of that. :heart

[SweetCaroline]

Things that helped me :
* Getting rid of the mindset that the child is "doing things to make me react." Either I'm weak enough to allow a small child to manipulate me , or I have demon spawn who live to make me miserable. Adopting the mindset that they are kids and kids need attention really helped me.

*ignoring the dishes/laundry/cleaning and instead using that time to sit with the child and do something specific. Giving them ten minutes at the top of each hour was an amazing remedy. Read a book , play with playdough , do a craft , snuggle super big , etc... Just ten minutes. I was surprised at how quickly this trick worked , and how easily I fell into the routine. At first I was thinking "TEN MINUTES are you freaking kidding me?" First of all I don't want to spend ten minutes with this child and secondly TEN MINUTES is a lifetime. Then I tried it. It took two days. After that I forgot to look at the clock and the children were much better behaved.

*Choosing when I'd speak. After awhile I realized I'd been talking non stop. Didn't matter what I said , it was just white noise to them. So I stopped talking unless I "had" to. Once I had their attention again (it took a few days) I could start to dialogue with them again.

* I stopped telling my problems with this child to every person who'd listen. Especially my parents. The advice I was getting was contrary to my core beliefs ( see the first thing) and it their unwanted advice served to a) make me frustrated and b) gave them permission to bring it up whenever they wanted. To anyone who asked we were "fine". If I felt they needed more , or I wanted to give more , they got a generic "You know xx year olds. It's hard work , but I"m loving it."

* I stopped referring to this particular child as a difficult child. I'd never said it aloud , but in my head I truly needed to stop. They weren't little imps , they were children who needed attention and understanding. Redoing that thought took a while , but I'm glad I made the effort. I was finally able to see my child as a unique , fun , individual with the same ups and downs we all have.

:heart i want you to know i really appreciated ALL of this.

[MommyInTraining]

Things that helped me :
* Getting rid of the mindset that the child is "doing things to make me react." Either I'm weak enough to allow a small child to manipulate me , or I have demon spawn who live to make me miserable. Adopting the mindset that they are kids and kids need attention really helped me.

*ignoring the dishes/laundry/cleaning and instead using that time to sit with the child and do something specific. Giving them ten minutes at the top of each hour was an amazing remedy. Read a book , play with playdough , do a craft , snuggle super big , etc... Just ten minutes. I was surprised at how quickly this trick worked , and how easily I fell into the routine. At first I was thinking "TEN MINUTES are you freaking kidding me?" First of all I don't want to spend ten minutes with this child and secondly TEN MINUTES is a lifetime. Then I tried it. It took two days. After that I forgot to look at the clock and the children were much better behaved.

*Choosing when I'd speak. After awhile I realized I'd been talking non stop. Didn't matter what I said , it was just white noise to them. So I stopped talking unless I "had" to. Once I had their attention again (it took a few days) I could start to dialogue with them again.

* I stopped telling my problems with this child to every person who'd listen. Especially my parents. The advice I was getting was contrary to my core beliefs ( see the first thing) and it their unwanted advice served to a) make me frustrated and b) gave them permission to bring it up whenever they wanted. To anyone who asked we were "fine". If I felt they needed more , or I wanted to give more , they got a generic "You know xx year olds. It's hard work , but I"m loving it."

* I stopped referring to this particular child as a difficult child. I'd never said it aloud , but in my head I truly needed to stop. They weren't little imps , they were children who needed attention and understanding. Redoing that thought took a while , but I'm glad I made the effort. I was finally able to see my child as a unique , fun , individual with the same ups and downs we all have.

I have to second this!! Tremendously helpful! I have found all of those exact same things to be true for me and my girls as well. :) Thanks for a great reminder!!

[hopeforchange]

J3K, thank you so much for your advice! i love to hear from the moms of older children, who have BTDT advice. :)