Are strong willed kids really just sensitive

[rjy9343]

I have a theory that so called strong willed kids are really just sensitive kids. It seems to me that the reason punitive parenting does not really work on them is that they are hurt and confused by their parents' words and actions and are trying to make sense of it. It seems that GD works because they feel that they are valued and have a say in what matters. But most of all they have approval from parents or other authority figures. From what I have seen strong willed kids are really anxious to please, they just don't want to be talked at. I am by no means an expert, and would love to hear from other moms.

[graceandmercy]

Makes sense to me. My one is super sensitive and I have to be very careful in how I discipline her, and she is more strong willed than her sister. She is my "mama bear" and a leader and very serious and hard working. My other one is not quite so sensitive unless she is hungry or tired, and she's more "happy-go-lucky" and willing to give in and make the peace most of the time (unless she is tired or hungry).

[Taedareth]

Speaking as a very sensitive and strong-willed child, I think your theory has merit :) My parents used the punitive model on me from the very beginning, so I don't remember ever being "eager to please" although my dad once commented that as a young child I was "very bidable." I just remember at the age of 4ish, being afraid of him because he used the force of his negative emotions and imposing physical presence to threaten/bully me into doing his will. He saw this as simply asserting his fatherly authority :-/

Anyway. Just wanting to say that sensitivity does factor in there, but we also strongly need to have some control over ourselves. We feel violated when an adult does not allow us to make any of our own decisions, or if he/she becomes dictatorial or controlling. If an adult says "Yes you will because I SAY SO and there will be no discussion" it's like spitting in the child's face - I can remember feeling *that* disrespected and dehumanized. :( Feeling this way, the child has only two options 1) outward compliance with inward humiliation and seething anger or 2) acting on the outside the way we feel on the inside (which parenting experts call "rebellion" :-/ )

So... yes strong willed / spirited kids are sensitive. We need correction and guidance as much as any child does, but we respond best when we are also treated with gentleness and respect. :heart

[Ajoy]

My 2yo is strong-willed, and DH and I have found so far that she responds SO much better to reasoning and explaining than just telling her so. DH was/is also strong-willed and we also think it's because strong-willed kids seem to have a keener sense of justice. I think they instinctively know when they're not being treated fairly and unlike more laid-back children, they just won't put up with it! That's our take on it anyway. :)

[NewCovenantMama]

:yes Ds3 would be labelled as a SWC by many ppl, but a lot of it is his sensitivity. He's a very passionate child.

[rjy9343]

Thank you Mamas. My thoughts came after I realized that my six year old niece, and I are strong willed. My daughter also shows signs of being pretty determined (she was holding up her head by two weeks and has started rolling to the wall so she can push her self up on to her knees among other things). I noticed that all of us are pretty sensitive and that other people I know that are sensitive are can be pretty obstinate if ordered around. From what you moms are saying, if I treat my daughter like a person, most of my childhood problems will not happen.:phew

[Close2MyHeart]

:yes I agree w/ your theory. My 2 strong willed are also my 2 most sensitive. :shrug It does seem to be connected.

[mystweaver]

This sounds pretty good to me--I am incredibly strong willed, and I know I started life very sensitive (pre-punitive parenting) and am now returning to that.

[Serafine]

I think SOME strong-willed kids are extra sensitive. And some aren't. It depends on their personality.

Some personalities (like mine - ENTJ and my DS - INTJ/ISTJ) are very strong-willed b/c of our strong NTJ/STJ, but are actually NOT all that sensitive (note the distinct lack of F and P in that equation) ;)

We are strong-willed NOT b/c we are people-pleasers (or "anxious to please", as the OP put it), because we have a strong sense of justice, and very strong opinions about most things.

So, I think your idea has merit for SOME kids, but not all.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

think it's because strong-willed kids seem to have a keener sense of justice. I think they instinctively know when they're not being treated fairly and unlike more laid-back children, they just won't put up with it! That's our take on it anyway. :)

Exactly.

[mystweaver]

I think SOME strong-willed kids are extra sensitive. And some aren't. It depends on their personality.

Some personalities (like mine - ENTJ and my DS - INTJ/ISTJ) are very strong-willed b/c of our strong NTJ/STJ, but are actually NOT all that sensitive (note the distinct lack of F and P in that equation) ;)


Very true--my husband is solidly ISTJ, very strong-willed, and rarely sensitive.

[larkish]

I used to think that my oldest was strong willed... now I'm not so sure. He's definitely high-needs and/or highly sensitive and a challenge. However, he ultimately seems to want to please, he just needs explaining and for you to take time.

Now that I have DS2 and he's coming into his own, he seems much more stubborn which I would think of as strong willed, but he's not very sensitive. You have to tell him not to do something like 10 times and sometimes even then he'll go back to it. It's like he has it in his mind this is what he has to do and it doesn't matter what you say, or how you say it.

just my 2 cents

[krysmh]

Like Serafine said, I'm not sure it applies to all. I was definitely strong willed and definitely still am. But I'm not sure I'd describe myself as sensitive usually. Opinionated? Yes. lol :)

[TuneMyHeart]

I agree with Serafine; AK, who is definitely strong-willed, isn't very sensitive. E, OTOH, is super sensitive and high needs, but I wouldn't define her as strong-willed. :think

[bolt.]

I was a strong willed child. I'm not sure if I was 'sensitive' emotionally, but I was definitely reactive to the triggers of adversarial parenting. In my case, I could not feel very connected in a very loving way to my parents because I could not imagine how they could love me and treat me unjustly at the same time.

Of course, my idea of justice was personal freedom, independence, and equal rights, as a 7 year old... so I can kinda see their point of view from this side of the fence.

I was strong willed because (by combination of temperament and intelligence) I considered myself equally smart, strong and capable as any adult, and resented the power structures that made it so that I never got 'my way' -- simply because I happened to be a child.

[lalani]

from the other side of the coin ... i have always been super sensitive, and i was anything but strong-willed! my personality is really compliant, and was even before any punitive parenting ... :shrug3

[melliethepooh]

:think I was strong willed. There were incidents when I distinctly remember thinking that I'd rather die than give in and, say, brush my teeth. For some reason it took my dad (not my mom) a long time to figure out that spanking didn't do any good.

But I don't think I was very sensitive. I ended up being insanely lonely and feeling isolated from the rest of my family, and feeling that I didn't have a dignified way back in. But that's just human, it has nothing to do with being sensitive.

I also think that people throw 'strong willed' around for kids that aren't really that strong willed.

[SweetCaroline]

my dd, whom ive always said was "strong willed" WILL become a judge for the Supreme Court one day..i swear it. she demands equality. but, although she cries all.the.time..i really wouldnt say she's "sensitive"

but, my one highly sensitive child isnt so much strong willed as he is just really sensitive and feels really insulted when his feelings aren't considered. you get sooo much further with him if you work ' with' him, rather than just telling him what to do.

[Emerald Orchid]

I think SOME strong-willed kids are extra sensitive. And some aren't. It depends on their personality.

Some personalities (like mine - ENTJ and my DS - INTJ/ISTJ) are very strong-willed b/c of our strong NTJ/STJ, but are actually NOT all that sensitive (note the distinct lack of F and P in that equation) ;)

We are strong-willed NOT b/c we are people-pleasers (or "anxious to please", as the OP put it), because we have a strong sense of justice, and very strong opinions about most things.

So, I think your idea has merit for SOME kids, but not all.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------



Exactly.

I agree, having been a SWC and an INTJ.

Currently I'm not sure where DS1 stands on the SW spectrum, but I'm noticing more and more how sensitive he is. He seems tough in a way, but when I lose it with him, he melts down into a broken heart state. (Which unfortunately happened on Monday. :cry)

[Ethereal]

I think SOME strong-willed kids are extra sensitive. And some aren't. It depends on their personality.

Some personalities (like mine - ENTJ and my DS - INTJ/ISTJ) are very strong-willed b/c of our strong NTJ/STJ, but are actually NOT all that sensitive (note the distinct lack of F and P in that equation) ;)

We are strong-willed NOT b/c we are people-pleasers (or "anxious to please", as the OP put it), because we have a strong sense of justice, and very strong opinions about most things.

So, I think your idea has merit for SOME kids, but not all.

This is my thoughts exactly. I've come across adults and children who are incredibly strong-willed yet are very lacking in the sensitivity department. I've come across exceptionally sensitive adults and children (very rare) who are passive and withdrawn yet incredibly sensitive, and I've come across others who are both strong-willed AND sensitive. So I don't think strong-willed automatically means = sensitive at all.

[Sonata]

I'll agree with "some but not all!"

My son is very strong-willed, and in some ways he is sensitive, but he is not particularly sensitive to my moods or disapproval. For instance, if I want to communicate to him that his behavior is unacceptable, I have to stop him, make him look at my face, and speak very clearly to him. Then he really does want to please me, but subtle cues don't go very far.

I think that he has a strong sense of justice, and also feels like it is very important for him to be involved in something. Even at 1.5, he would comply when we told him WHY not to do something. (Umm, sometimes.) I remember being like that as a child too, although I think I was more emotionally sensitive than he is.

I do think strong-willed children are usually complex personalities.

[saturnfire16]

subbing

[Aisling]

Yeah, another vote for some, not all. :heart

My guess is that more emotionally-motivated children will be prone to extreme sensitivity, but their own strong moral compass will sometimes cause them to override their desire to please and go against the "flow", even if that means an authority.

As far as ALL strong willed kids being sensitive, that's just not true from what I've observed. Some people really are just tough-minded and determined from the get-go, and that's a valid way of being. :rockon

I'd like to believe it, because it would make dealing with them easier for bleeding heart me, :giggle, but I think some kids are just really strong minded and determined. Good news is, grace is for those kids, too! :mrgreen We can embrace them and love them for exactly the strong-minded, inventive little cookies they are, without them having a secret wounded side. We can celebrate their spunk and determination without needing to make them a super-sensitive cause. :rockon

[alexis]

I would agree with what most of the other mamas said!

Some strong willed kids are very sensitive. I know my strong willed kids are.

I don't know all kids, but some kids are going to be strong willed and not very sensitive. It really depends on their temperment.

Sounds like you know your kiddo.

I know that if I had strong armed my strong willed kid, things would of gotten far worse as he got angry for being misunderstood.

IMO, Strong willed kids do seem to have an intense need to be understood.

[rjy9343]

It sounds like all of you agree on one point and that is SW kids need an extra dose of respect and to feel like they have a say in life regardless of whether or not they are sensitive to moods or injustice. Sounds reasonable enough to me. Am I misunderstanding anything?

[Auroras mom]

I dislike th term stron-willed, as it carries so many negative connotations. I much prefer the newer term "spirited", and I recommend reading the book "Raising Your Spirited Child" where she talks about allthe different aspects of personality types, and how they can look in spirited kids.

Spirited kids are varied just like everyone else is, they are just typically "more" than most people in their intensity, thoughts, opinions, reactions, etc..

I am not sure how we are defining sensitivity really either. Do we mean particularly emotional or easily hurt or something else?

Anyway, I am a spirited person, and so is my daughter. We are both strong and opinionated and need lots of control over our environments. We are both also rather emotional and easily hurt and need to be dealt with assertively, yet gently.

Aggressive, punitive, shaming parenting drove me pretty much insane and into a hot mess of a life both on the inside and on the outside, from which I am still attempting to emerge.

[Aisling]

It sounds like all of you agree on one point and that is SW kids need an extra dose of respect and to feel like they have a say in life regardless of whether or not they are sensitive to moods or injustice. Sounds reasonable enough to me. Am I misunderstanding anything?

Kind of...I think that in a home where respect for every member is non-negotiable, it's less of an issue. In punitive "children should be seen and not heard" environments, I think it becomes more of an issue, because the child develops a complex; they crave respect and ask for it in immature ways, and are met with the opposite of what they're needing. :heart

[Granola_mom]

Subbing....great discussion!!

[ThreeKids]

I remember having a particular interaction between my sensitivity and strong-willed nature. Basically, the moment someone became adversarial, my sensitivity kicked in and I was completely unwilling to hear their case.

They may have had a good point. I wouldn't know. My sense of justice would have had me hearing their case by default, but, as soon as they became adversarial, it hurt my sensitivity so much that the person was deeply indebted to me according to my justice system and lost the right to be heard. And woe to whoever thought increasing coercion would help them win my cooperation.

Somehow, giving into coercion would have felt like lying to me and I refused to be forced to lie.

I feel ripped off of the opportunity to hear what adults had to say, like I could've learned so much if they would just have not made it so I couldn't debase myself by listening to them.

[allisonlindberg]

I believe that some strong-willed (or I prefer "spirited" kids) are sensitive.

Both of my boys fit both categories. My daughter so far is not...

I really enjoyed the book Raising Your Spirited Child by Kurcinka. The author goes through the various characteristics that spirited kids have.

[ThreeKids]

Oh, and my sister is a perfect example of someone who is very sensitive, but not at all strong-willed. As a kid, she might've broken down into a slobbery mess if you even suggested she was anything but super-compliant.

She once got in trouble with the rest of us. Of course, she wasn't running around desks, but got in trouble anyway. Once her sensitivity recovered from the paralyzing injustice of it, she not only wrote the lines she was assigned, but did a whole bunch extra and added "because I love Jesus" to every line.

[Aisling]

Oh, and my sister is a perfect example of someone who is very sensitive, but not at all strong-willed. As a kid, she might've broken down into a slobbery mess if you even suggested she was anything but super-compliant.

She once got in trouble with the rest of us. Of course, she wasn't running around desks, but got in trouble anyway. Once her sensitivity recovered from the paralyzing injustice of it, she not only wrote the lines she was assigned, but did a whole bunch extra and added "because I love Jesus" to every line.

Oh, gosh, that breaks my heart. :( Sounds like she did have a little spunk in her, too...adding that little line to the end sounds like her way of saying, "This is unfair."

[walkwallfall]

Your theory definitely has merit. I was a strong willed child and I am vert sensitive. Punitive punishment did not help me. I think it actually caused more problems than good. Way more problems.

[Maggirayne]

I am--but I'm an ENFP. ;) I love Cynthia Ulrich Tobias's books, You Can't Make Me, (But I Can Be Persuaded) and Redefining th Strong-Willed Woman. :thumbsup

[melliethepooh]

I remember having a particular interaction between my sensitivity and strong-willed nature. Basically, the moment someone became adversarial, my sensitivity kicked in and I was completely unwilling to hear their case.

They may have had a good point. I wouldn't know. My sense of justice would have had me hearing their case by default, but, as soon as they became adversarial, it hurt my sensitivity so much that the person was deeply indebted to me according to my justice system and lost the right to be heard. And woe to whoever thought increasing coercion would help them win my cooperation.

Somehow, giving into coercion would have felt like lying to me and I refused to be forced to lie.

I feel ripped off of the opportunity to hear what adults had to say, like I could've learned so much if they would just have not made it so I couldn't debase myself by listening to them.

:think When you put sensitivity that way, I am sensitive...just not emotionally. All of this sounds really familiar.

Tying into the respect issue, I had a strong need to be recognized as an 'expert' in whatever area of study had piqued my interest at the moment. I would research one topic quite thoroughly and then be insanely put out if people refused to listen to my opinion on the matter. That's still the case, but less likely to happen now that I'm an adult and people don't automatically write me off.

[rjy9343]

Sorry for the confusion about what I'm calling sensitivity. I am thinking a strong sense of right and wrong. And even justice. When I wrote my niece is sensitive, the characteristics I had in mind were how much she wants and even needs everyone to be okay and that she gets hurt very easily. I tend be thin skinned as well, but I'm better at hiding it. I know that when someone says do it my way or else I'm ready to die on that hill. I don't care if it is picking up my shoes, it's worth the fight. And my niece seems to be the same. I can ask her to pick up her shoes or tell her that once she picks up her shoes I will give her some ice cream, the shoes are picked up as soon as the words leave my mouth. If I order her to pick them up, they will stay there no matter what I say or do. Once God showed me how wrong my treatment of her was, I realized that it was okay to ask and to give her options. I am really thinking ahead for my daughter. I was wrong with my niece, and I can't undo that. But that does not mean that my daughter has to start out with an adversarial relationship with me as well.

[Serafine]

THIS

Sorry for the confusion about what I'm calling sensitivity. I am thinking a strong sense of right and wrong. And even justice.

AND

When I wrote my niece is sensitive, the characteristics I had in mind were how much she wants and even needs everyone to be okay and that she gets hurt very easily.

are totally different, and not necessarily related to each other at all.

Like I posted a while ago...the first quote is true of me; the 2nd isn't. And people have described me as strong-willed, but not sensitive.

So, it seems, again, that a strong-willed child COULD ALSO be sensitive...but isn't necessarily.