recommendations for a fish newbie

[monkeylicious]

Evie loves loves loves going into the pet store to watch the fish. So, I've been wanting to get a fish (or some fish) as a surprise for her birthday. I have never had fish and neither has dh. What would you recommend we start with? fish and equipment suggestions welcome :yes

:ty in advance

[domesticzookeeper]

I think Bettas are a GREAT fish to start with. Easy to keep, don't need a whole lot of space (compared to, say, a goldfish), and they're quite happy on their own :)

[jame06]

Mind if I jump in here with some questions?

We just decided to get fish last weekend. We know nothing about pets at all. So we went to Petsmart and asked a million questions, got brochures, and read.

We bought a 10gallon tank, gravel, filter, heater, and silk plants. We came home and set it all up. We used tap water and put the chemicals in it to make it ok for fresh water tropical fish (I can't remember what it was called - something by Top Fin I think)

So the next day we went back and bought 3 neon tetras and 3 guppies. We came home and floated the bag in the tank for 30 min, then emptied the fish into a net and placed them in the tank. (The people at petsmart said not to put the water from the bag into our tank.) We waited 5 min or so and fed them.

Next morning one of the tetras was dead. Petsmart has a 2 week guarantee so we took the dead fish back with the reciept and they replaced it. So I went home and repeated the procedure to introduce the new tetra into the tank.

Well this morning when we got up one of the guppies was dead. I'm not sure if I am going to go back again and replace the guppy. I know that my kids will want me to and dh will to (cuz he's cheap and wants to make sure he gets his $1 (that's all we paid for each fish)).

I'm not sure what we are doing wrong - if anything. Suggestions???

Just a note - all the fish we got came out of the same tank at Petsmart.

[domesticzookeeper]

My first thought was that, sometimes, fish just die :hugheart They could have been ill at the store, or just not strong enough to handle the stress of the move. It does sound like you did everything right as far as acclimating goes, but even the best moves can be stressful. Fish are very delicate and don't always show signs that they're not feeling well. And really, nothing stands out to me as something you should have changed or something you did wrong :no

My second thought was that of all the things that pet stores tell you, the one thing they almost never mention is the nitrogen cycle (http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm). This is where most beginning fishkeepers lose their fish :( Both ammonia and nitrites will spike in new tank set ups, and they are toxic to fish at relatively low concentrations (~1 part per million). A fully cycled tank is a breeze to take care of, whereas an uncycled tank can be a real PITB (at the moment, I have both). If you want to stay in fishkeeping, work toward having a cycled tank. It will be the difference between a fun hobby and a frustrating one.

[monkeylicious]

jump on in... i need yo go this weekend i think

---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------

A fully cycled tank is a breeze to take care of, whereas an uncycled tank can be a real PITB (at the moment, I have both). If you want to stay in fishkeeping, work toward having a cycled tank. It will be the difference between a fun hobby and a frustrating one.

what are fully cycled tank and an uncycled tanks?

[domesticzookeeper]

Okay, so the nitrogen cycling process (in a nutshell) is this...

> Fish produce ammonia.

> Bacteria Colony A eats the ammonia and produces a byproduct: nitrite.

> Bacteria Colony B eats the nitrites and produces a byproduct: nitrates.

ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates


Now, ammonia and nitrites are both toxic to fish. That's why it's important to have these colonies of bacteria living in your filters to consume the ammonia and nitrites as they're produced.

So you can kind of picture the fish producing ammonia (through respiration, urine and solid waste), the water goes through the filter and the ammonia is consumed by bacteria. Those bacteria produce nitrites, and as the water goes through the filter the nitrites are consumed by another colony of bacteria. It's really a self-maintaining system ;) The nitrates that are the end result of the cycle are only dangerous at very high levels, so if you're doing partial water changes every few weeks, you should be fine.

In my fully cycled tropical tank, I already have nice, thriving colonies of bacteria so that when I test the water, the ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0. None, nada. That means my fish are safe. I just have to feed them and enjoy watching them swim :)

These bacteria are always present in our water, but they need to be encouraged to grow into colonies in the tank's filter. Uncycled tanks are typically new. New gravel, new plants, new ornaments, and MOST significantly, new filters and filter media. You throw a fish into a new tank *without* cycling it first, and the fish is going to be producing all of this ammonia without a colony of bacteria ready and waiting to eat it up. The ammonia will spike and kill the fish long before you have enough bacteria to handle the situation. And once you have those bacteria, they're now producing nitrites. Again, there's not enough bacteria in the tank yet to handle all of the nitrites. When they spike, the fish dies :(

Cycling is easiest to do when you don't have fish yet. Set up the tank, decorate it, plug in the filters, do everything that you would do if you were bringing home a fish. But instead of adding fish, add just a little bit of pure ammonia. You'll essentially be simulating the presence of fish, but now you can afford to leave the ammonia levels high for awhile as the bacteria begin to eat and reproduce, without risking the life of any fish. Cycling without fish is an exercise in extreme patience :giggle It is NOT a fast process. But it is still faster, safer, and so much easier than cycling with fish already in the tank.

Because when you have fish in an uncycled tank, you have two options. Either you keep buying new fish as they continually die :-/ Or you resign yourself to the fact that you've just found a new hobby :shifty You'll need test kits, as you will be monitoring the water *daily*. If the ammonia spikes, you have to do a water change to keep it safe for the fish. A few weeks in, the nitrites will start to climb. This is even more dangerous than the ammonia. Of course at this point, you've been doing daily water changes for the past few weeks, so it should be old hat ;) Cycling with fish takes much more time than cycling without fish, because you can never let the ammonia or nitrites get too high, and therefore the bacteria are going to take that much longer to colonize.

HTH! :heart

[monkeylicious]

that helps alot!! so dd's b-day is the 18th... i should go yesterday and get a tank and set it up right? and then get some test kits so i can see the spikes and possibly be able to add fish for her b-day?

thank you for all of your info :yes :ty

[jame06]

My first thought was that, sometimes, fish just die :hugheart They could have been ill at the store, or just not strong enough to handle the stress of the move. It does sound like you did everything right as far as acclimating goes, but even the best moves can be stressful. Fish are very delicate and don't always show signs that they're not feeling well. And really, nothing stands out to me as something you should have changed or something you did wrong :no

My second thought was that of all the things that pet stores tell you, the one thing they almost never mention is the nitrogen cycle (http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm). This is where most beginning fishkeepers lose their fish :( Both ammonia and nitrites will spike in new tank set ups, and they are toxic to fish at relatively low concentrations (~1 part per million). A fully cycled tank is a breeze to take care of, whereas an uncycled tank can be a real PITB (at the moment, I have both). If you want to stay in fishkeeping, work toward having a cycled tank. It will be the difference between a fun hobby and a frustrating one.

They did mention that the wather would go through a nitrogen cycle since it was a new set up, but I guess they didn't say anything about us "making it cycle" before we bought the fish.

And my poor kids - the youngest 2 - this is thier first experience of pets and had a hard time understanding why the fish died. :(

Thanks for the thoughts. I will definately keep reading up and learn more. I think having a fish tank/fish is the best pet ownership route for us and I want to be succesful. The kids are really enjoying watching them swim around.

[jame06]

:cry we have lost 3 more fish. That leaves three - 2 tetras and one guppie - which doesn't look well.

Right now we are not going to change anything - I think we will take some water and have it sampled this weekend to make sure it's okay and if not see what we need to do to fix it. Then we will just let the water cycle, for a few weeks, clean the tank and change 25% of the water and cycle it a few weeks and then maybe get more fish.

I'm praying the 3 we have left survive, but if not I do really want to be successful with the fish cuz the littles LOVE them, so we will try again.

[domesticzookeeper]

I'm so sorry. In the beginning it can be frustrating, and heartbreaking :hug

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

that helps alot!! so dd's b-day is the 18th... i should go yesterday and get a tank and set it up right? and then get some test kits so i can see the spikes and possibly be able to add fish for her b-day?

That should work :)

I use the API test kits. They look like this: http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=69 - drop tests are much more accurate than strips.