Quick help! Burned hand!

[KarenBoo]

My 2yo just put her hand directly on the hot burner! She's been crying hysterically for about 15 minutes. In this 15 minutes, we've called our homeopath and are giving her what she said to. We are also putting on Calendula cream.

I gave her ibuprofin. She is slapping at her hand, and it's starting to blister.

We've tried a bowl of cold water, but DD2 will have none of that and just cries harder and writhes around.

What else can I do? Should I take her to the ER?

Thanks!!

[Firebird Rising]

Go to the ER now. They have things that will help with pain and can see if there will be lingering problems.

I don't mess around with burns like that.

---------- Post added at 07:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 AM ----------

especially on things like hands where healing is difficult because of movement. I worked a burn unit when I didn't work ER and getting it treated will be much better in the long run.

[Weezie]

Go to the ER.:pray4

[Naked Camper]

vinegar will help take some of the burn pain away. do NOT pop the blister - wait for it to pop on its own. can you put her hand on an ice pack to help it cool down? Keep it moist with triple antibiotic ointment and keep it wrapped up.

poor little one :hugheart We've dealt with many a burn at our home.

---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------

a blister is actually a good thing - while more painful - you at least know it's a 2nd degree burn and not a 3rd degree burn

[KarenBoo]

Go to the ER now. They have things that will help with pain and can see if there will be lingering problems.

I don't mess around with burns like that.

---------- Post added at 07:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 AM ----------

especially on things like hands where healing is difficult because of movement. I worked a burn unit when I didn't work ER and getting it treated will be much better in the long run.


Thank you for this. So my mom, an RN, came out to see what was going on, and I asked her to tell us if she thought we needed the ER. She said "not yet, but let's see how she does." Well, DD2 finally agreed to keep her hand on an ice pack, and she settled down.

As the day has gone on, she's gotten some big blisters. She also cries when the ice melts - she likes it *cold.* She was able to take a nap at naptime, in my lap with her hand on the ice pack.

So I'm curious, because my mom hasn't worked in years, but she said that at the hospital they would wrap it and give her pain meds. Her pain seems tolerable now, though we are keeping her on a steady dose of ibuprofin. But what else can they do for her? I don't want to have her hand messed up because I didn't take her in, but we have sterile dressing here and can dress it ourselves.

You said something about "assessing" and problems with movement. What can be done? I want to take her in if it will help her, but I think she might be "on the fence" as to whether or not she needs more treatment than what we can give.

I'm definitely on the "highly distrust" side of things when it comes to doctors, but I know they do have their place. But I am feeling like it's actually more risky to take her in rather than treat her at home. So please educate me. Thanks so much!

[CrunchySeaSalt]

She needs silvadeen (sp) it is a good topical pain reliever as well as keeps the infection out and helps heal faster

rx only

[Firebird Rising]

so, I can't see the burn and when you say her hand, I'm not imagining just one area burned...when you said it's blistering, my thoughts go to several parts of the hand that will need healing. I find hands, especially palms, harder to heal because of all the joints and higher risk of infection. Just IMHO, that's where I was coming from.

Do not treat burns with ice. The ice damages the skin...can't remember exactly but something to do with freezing damaged cells. http://www.askdrsears.com/html/11/T085500.asp

Burns are both challenging and fascinating to treat. If you have support from a nurse in your family, that changes things a bit.

OTOH, I don't have any issues with docs, especially ER docs. I handle colds/fevers/flus at home, but burns, big cuts and things bleeding that shouldn't, I don't hesitate to go to ER.

[TestifyToLove]

While Silvadene is the preferred treatment for burns, it is rarely used for hands.

The proper treatment of a burn is to stop the burning first and foremost. Put the burned area under cold running water. You might have to be forciful for a young child. However, a burn actually continues to burn and do damage after removed from the source of the burn. You *have* to stop the burn in the skin and the first 2 hours or so is critical in doing that.

I keep burns under cold running water for approximately 40 minutes. At that point, I switch to ice water for at least another 40 minutes and as close to 2 hours I can get after that point.

Once I pull the burned area out of the water, I immediately start applying Neosporin with pain relief. That is the preferred burn cream for hand burns by doctors anyway. But, I'm allergic to Silvadene at this point, so we have to use Neosporin anyway. The Neosporin (or Silvadene) creates a moisture barrier. You want to apply this cream at least 3 times per day. Silvadene will numb the burn, if you use Neosporin with pain relief it will as well. You can apply more frequently than 3x per day if it makes it feel better, but it needs to be a minimum of 3x. Then, if the child will let you wrap the burned area with gauze to hold the cream on it and protect it.

Give Ibprofen every 4-6 hours. Keep the child well hydrated.

If the skin turns white or black, do not treat at home. Red or blisters can be treated at home, depending on where the burn is or how extensive it is. Any burn I can't cover with my own hand, I would take to the ER personally. But, I have a LOT of experience, knowledge and I'm a former RN so I'm fairly comfortable with treating burns. I would go in if I need a new Silvadene prescription, its necrotic (black) or I'm certain its 3rd degree versus 2nd or just too extensive to treat myself. I've taken a child in for burns ONCE, and honestly I already had it under control but she was wailing and screaming and begging for Silvadene. The ER doctor and I had a good chuckle that the burn was nearly gone by the time we got there but we opted for the Silvadene over the Neosporin because of how extensive it *had* been before I started treated it. Poor baby, she was talking to me while I was cooking. She laughed at my joke and SLAPPED a hot burner I had *just* turned off. She was crying that she was sorry she had broken my rules about touching hot burners and I'm desperately cooling her skin to make sure it doesn't progress to the 3rd degree burns I knew were coming if I couldn't stop the burn immediately.

White skin, black skin, popped blisters, peeling skin--these CANNOT be treated at home. You MUST seek medical attention for them. But, a 2nd degree burn can be reversed back to 1st degree with fast and proper treatment. And often 3rd degree can be stopped entirely if treated properly and quickly. If you have black, popped blisters or peeling skin, wrap a cold, moist, clean as possible towel around the affected area and head immediately for the ER (no matter how small the affected area, 3rd degree burns need treated professional even if small ones). Less than that, if you have training, get it cooled, keep it treated and you should be fine.

Baby J slapped a hot stove a few months ago. His right palm was covered in blisters. My heart was breaking for him. I did call the doctor to make sure they didn't want to use Silvadene given how extensive the burn was, but they confirmed 2nd degree on a hand and just go with the Neosponrin route. It was already on there, but I wanted to check because it was his ENTIRE palm that was covered in blisters. I did manage to reverse all but 2 blisters, and one of those was because I didn't see his thumb was blistered and didn't treat it with Neosporin until the next day.

[KarenBoo]

Thanks y'all so much for supporting me through this! It appears that she has 1st and 2nd degree burns. She slapped the hot stove for a split second, as she was mad! :blush:cry But those blisters sure do look painful! :(:(

Thanks also for the advice on the ice. I should have said that she has her hand on a baggie of ice-water, and when *that* ice melts, she cries.

We got the neosporin today at the drugstore, and we'll wrap her hand tonight because she already wants to pick at it. She's been in my lap all day with her hand on the baggie of ice water. :(

[RealLifeMama]

Your poor DD! :hugheart
While Silvadene is the preferred treatment for burns, it is rarely used for hands.

not to derail, but why is that? When my DH had a propane grill blow up with his hand inside of it, he was given Silvadene. He went in for debridement, but he would change his own dressing twice a day putting new Silvadene on it.
He also was supposed to clean his hand with water and :think not sure if they used soap or not, but he would rub it with clean gauze to get it really clean before redressing. That hurt a lot.
After a few weeks, he switched to a vitamin E cream. He healed way better than anyone expected and has full range of motion in his hand.

Before we could get him to the office for debridement and to get the cream, we put a diaper cream on it that had zinc oxide and calendula on it and wrapped it in gauze. His care provider happened to be here when the grill blew up and she said that was OK.


I;d probably just go in if cost is not a huge issue.

[peacefullone]

recently I burned my hand really good too. I held onto a hot fire stick...that I had just pulled out of the fire. I was roasting a marshmallow in the camp fire. I had like 4 spots very close together on my right hand. I was writhing in pain too. but the thing that helped the best was holding it under cold running water. and then Dh called his Mom and she said to lather apple butter on my hand and wrap it up. it still hurt pretty bad...but slowly the pain went away. and by about 12 midnight, I was able to go to bed without pain. I was told that the apple butter takes the burn away.

[TestifyToLove]

When my DH had a propane grill blow up with his hand inside of it, he was given Silvadene.

That was 3rd degree burns. And, I think if its 3rd degree, they are going to go for the Silvadene even on the hands. But, for second degree on hands, doctors are pretty consistent about Neosporin. I've asked why before, but never quite gotten the justification because the same 2nd degree on another body part would call for Silvadene yet on the hand they go with Neosporin. Honestly, you *can* use Neo on other body parts too, and I do rather than head to the doctor. But, if you head to the doctor, you're probably going to end up with Silvadene for other body parts and Neo for hands. I suspect hands are the most common thing TO burn and therefore Neosporin is a quick and easy at-home treatment that works. And, if you get it with lidocaine in it, it will take the pain away.

Until I was became allergic to it, I just kept a bottle of Silvadene in my cabinet. Now, I need gloves to Silvadene so I home treat with Neosporin. What you actually need is a moisture barrier that doesn't contain anything which can cause infection or let bacteria grow but hold the moisture into the burn. I've heard raw honey works as well as bear grease but I've never tried either of them. Lanolin will work if you can be sure that the lanolin is clean. I use the Neosporin because the lidocaine will numb it and burns-even minor ones--hurt.

[CrunchySeaSalt]

i used it for my 2nd degree burns on my hands at the ionsistance of the EMTs and the Dr I called.

That is why I suggested it. It greatly helped...I mean immensely ESP since hands are easily infected

[Naked Camper]

silvadine - though once recommended for burns, is no longer the standard treatment for ped. burns like the one described. The concern is the heavy metals in the silver in it. :wink We just went through this with Corban (age 2) a few months ago.

I was surprised that the burn didn't hurt him once the blister formed. He didn't seem to need the pain meds - until it popped and then it was uncomfortable for him for a day or so. He kept saying it "hurt bad" but he didn't favor it like you would have expected him too. Just mentioning this in case you notice something similar.

We kept triple antibiotic ointment on it until the new skin looked healed over.

[charla]

I accidentally poured boiling water over my index finger today. I had small blisters in a couple places and it hurt like crazy. I did the cold water, ice water thing and couldn't get it to stop hurting so I stopped by the health food store and asked what I could do and they recommended aloe vera. I kept that on there all afternoon and now you would never know I burned my finger. I don't know if that would be something that would be recommended in your daughter's situation or not. Somebody would probably know better than I. :shrug3

:hugheart I hope she's feeling better tonight.

[homesteadmama]

I burned my fingers a couple weeks ago. Hopefromgrace was here visiting, and she told me to put lavender EO directly on it. I did, and within minutes, the burning went away. The next day I couldn't even tell I'd been burned.

[FaithHopeLove]

I have a little trick that you can do almost anywhere for a burn or owie (like finger in door) with a little one. Ask for a cup of ice water (or two), put something intriguing and safe (little figures or something) in the cup and have the little one dig in the cup of water for the items, put them one cup to the other, etc.

Karen Boo, I'm sorry your little one got burned. I hope she feels better super quickly! :hug

[mollobe]

Can I derail for a sec? :shifty
DS burned his chin 2 days ago on a pan hot from the oven (trying to see the cookies on it). :( It was red with white in the middle, and blistered within about a half hour. He let me put a cold pack on it (refrigerator kind, not freezer kind). I put breast milk on it because I remember reading burns are one of the many great things bm is good for. After a couple hours (he had fallen asleep) I put calendula ointment on it and covered it with a band-aid. When that band-aid came off a couple hours later, the blister had broken on it's own. So the last 2 nights I've kept it covered with calendula during the day, then letting it air out overnight, but reading this thread makes me think it shouldn't be allowed to dry out? It's looking better...but I don't want it to get infected or scar, so should I start using Neosporin and cover it all the time? Or just keep doing what I've been doing? :nails

:ty

[Naked Camper]

Towards the end of corban's hand healing we let it dry out some once we thought it had healed enough - does that make sense? Once the skin looked like it was ready for it. :shrug3

Also with hand burns, once the new skin is hardening up, you'll want to make sure you stretch the skin by flexing/stretching the hand to keep the new skin from being too tight and allow for full range of motion.
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[mrsd]

Poor baby! It is so painful. Can you get in to see a pediatrician? Shemay need a stronger pain med and some sort of anti-biotic lotion.

[KarenBoo]

Thanks so much everyone!

Last night she fell asleep with her hand on the cool-pack, and after she was good and asleep, DH and I put some neosporin w/ analgesic on a sterile gauze pad and put that on her hand, then wrapped her whole hand in sterile gauze. We also snuck in one last dose of ibuprofin.

She woke up at 3am and took the wrap off, and asked for a cool pack. So we got her the cool pack and after she nursed back to sleep, we put another gauze soaked w/ manuka honey and neosporin, and re-wrapped. (and I taped the whole wrap to her wrist so it wouldn't come off so easily.)

Today she is doing ok. She has been playing and not complaining about her hand, though it looks awful! She has a big blister on her palm, and each of her fingertips has a blister. The rest of her hand is angry red. :( She allowed us to change the wrap again this morning, and we are going with straight honey and homeopathics for treatment. She has not needed any pain meds today.

Oh, and I so do not look forward to having her stretch out her fingers later on - that looks like it will be painful! :shiver But that is very good advice - thank you!:heart

[Naked Camper]

one more thing we found helpful to keep bandages on the hand is to take a old adult tube sock and cut off a section the length of hand where the bandage is. Cut a VERY small hole (it will stretch) for the thumb and then put that on her hand over the bandage. If you need a pic of what I'm talking about I can get one for you - I just don't have one on the computer already.

[KarenBoo]

We actually tried doing that last night, but DH (who was putting it on) said he felt like he would be tugging too much at the bandage and her hand, so that's why we left it alone. She's left the bandage in place all day long today and has been very careful with her hand.

[Naked Camper]

:tu

[KarenBoo]

Well, I am absoulutely livid today!:mad:mad Last night, we re-checked her hand and put on a new wrap. I thought I saw a spot that might be pus, so I had a moment of panic and decided to take her to the ER. Better be safe than sorry, so I thought!

I'm leaving out lots of details, but the doctor told me she had a third degree burn, which was not true. He told me he would drain some fluid from the blister and prescribe hydrotherapy treatments. Well, we all know (especially now because we've been discussing it) that a third degree burn doesn't have a blister.

So they gave her Tylenol with codeine, and then a paramedic came in. I asked him, and he confirmed - no third degree burns. He tried to drain the blister, but it wouldn't drain well. And poor DD2 was screaming because it hurt so bad. Eventually the paramedic gave up on draining the blister and began to pull the skin off (debriding it.) DD2 was really screaming now, and I didn't know this was going to happen. I asked him to stop and give her better pain meds, and he said he was almost done and it would all hurt anyway because it was a burn.:sick:mad:mad:mad

Anyway, I so WISH I had never taken her in. Her hand was just fine before, and there was no need to do that to her! (Because when I looked at her hand at the hospital again, I didn't see the little white spot anymore, so her hand WAS ok.) Now instead of having a blister for protection, she has a wide, angry red patch of skin on her hand. I believe she is much more at risk for infection than she was before. And yes, they gave the Silvadeen (sp?) but there is no analgesic in there.

This was my fear from the beginning - overtreatment and trauma, not to mention a huge expense. I have no idea how much the hydrotherapy will cost, but yes, we must pay 100% out of pocket for all of it. :sick:mad

Yes, I my serious distrust in doctors has only been strengthened by this. I feel so bad for my baby having to go thru all of that, and what she still must endure. I am just praying hard that God protects her hand from infection now.:cry

[RealLifeMama]

I am so, so sorry!! Your poor DD!!
Debridment hurts...a lot!
Your poor DD!
My DH actually just had a 2nd degree burn, and like I said, he had his hand in the propane grill when it exploded. I doubt your DD had a third degree burn. Another thing is that with a third degree burn, a lot of nerves are damaged, so it does not hurt as badly. At least that is what we were told.
DH had lots of pus like stuff on his hand, but it was because there was no skin to hold in the ooze. Burns ooze, but it does not necessarily mean infection.
I am so sorry your poor DD had to go through that!

[Naked Camper]

how awful :cry :mad
Darn, I wish you would have posted about what looked like puss or posted pics. That's normal sounding for burn healing. I'm so sad/angry they treated your dd that way. But I remember calling our family doc asking if similar described "puss" was okay. :wink

FWIW - sylvadine is some good stuff and it goes on easier when the skin is wet.

My DH had some severe 2nd degree burns 7 years ago. The ONLY reason he wasn't hospitalized was b/c the risk for infection was lower at home than the hospital. That's were we learned about burns. Our 2yo recently did the hand on the iron thing and we renewed our burn knowledge.

[TestifyToLove]

IME, you get far better treatment from a regular physician in their office than in ER, especially if its something they deem a non-emergency.

That was totally unnecessary. If you have a normal doctor, I would get a second opinion before doing hydrotherapy.

[KarenBoo]

Yes, I can't stop beating myself up about it. I keep crying over it too.:cry And I did take her to hydrotherapy today, which was even more terrible than the ER because she did extensive debriding. At least everything was sterile, unlike the stupid guy in the ER who was not sterile in the least! :mad

I think it's a good opinion for a second opinion. Unfortunately, I don't know who to go to at the moment. We have another appointment for hydrotherapy tomorrow morning, and I won't be able to get her in to see anyone until next week. And, these hydrotherapy sessions cost $335 each!! :jawdrop

I am just so, so upset with myself over this. I know that I did the best I knew at the time, but I can't seem to get over it. And then today, it was just awful.:cry:cry:cry :bheart

[Naked Camper]

:hugheart

[KarenBoo]

Can y'all please help me out again? I'm crying and crying and can't get a grip, and I'm so unsure of what to do. I can't sleep, and I know that is contributing to this, but I'm a mess.

I can't decide if I should take her to hydrotherapy in the morning. I can't stand the thought of more debridement. It's just so awful, and the more I read about it, the sicker I feel because it's supposed to be so incredibly painful, and I actually hold my DD down and force her to go thru that. :sick:cry :bheart

And tonight I was trying to read up on pain management for wound debriding, and I found an article that talks about how manuka honey can cause a wound to "self-debride" without having to do it this painful way.

I would like to go back to treating with the honey, but I'm afraid that if I put the honey on her hand, it might burn like fire because she no longer has the blister, and instead has red, angry skin showing. And I'm also afraid because I want to keep her hand as sterile as I can, and if I take her to hydrotherapy, they will keep a sterile field to redress her wound.

I'm so confused and I'm just crying and shaking. Can any of you shed any light on this for me? Thank you so much!:heart

[Naked Camper]

I don't know much about the hydrotherapy, but I'm confused about why it's needed. :scratch is there more skin to debree? Why are they forcing it to debree? Can't you cut away the extra skin with scissors when it's ready? The honey would sound like a better option to me. I wouldn't be so concerned about the infection - just keep the antibiotic ointment on it and keep it bandaged well. BUT - I'm not a health care professional and I haven't seen her hand. Sounds like your momma gut is telling you to stop the hydrotherapy.
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[Naked Camper]

so what did you decide to do this morning? and how's the hand looking?

[KarenBoo]

Well, this morning I had a nice long post all typed out, and then our plans changed. So last night, I did a lot more research, and the manuka honey kept coming back up. So I decided to put some on her hand while she was asleep. So I woke up DH, and we re-dressed her hand. (and she stays mostly asleep while we do it.) I felt so much peace about that decision, and I also decided not to take her in for hydrotherapy.

But as I was typing out my post here, the therapist called because we missed our appointment. (I had actually just woken up because last night was so awful.) So I told her all of my concerns, and she made it seem like it was very important for us to come in today. She and I made a plan over the phone for better pain management, and she promised me she would not do anything without my permission, and that she would explain everything to me about taking care of her hand at home. She also told me that she has had plenty of times where she has stopped treatment to ask the doctor for stronger pain meds. So that convinced me to take her back in.

So when we arrived at the hospital, the first part of the plan was to get new pain meds without having to pay for an entire doctor visit. I had not given DD2 the medication previously prescribed (Tylenol w/ Codeine). The therapist personally went to the ER and asked several doctors until she found one that said "sure I'll write it. Did you know that 30% of the population can't metabolize the Tylenol w/ codeine and it does them absolutely no good?" :jawdrop No wonder my baby was screaming so bad! :sick:mad:cry

So then we drove to the pharmacy to fill the Rx. The new medicine was Tylenol w/ Hydrocodone. :sick Mind you, before this incident, this child has not ever had any chemical exposure at all. No medicine, no vaccines. So I'm so mad that I have to give her this stuff. But anyway, we let it take effect and went back to the therapist.

The therapist unwrapped her bandages and said her wounds look great, and I thought so to. She felt it unnecessary to do hydrotherapy or debriding, so she gently washed it and re-bandaged it, and she showed me how to bandage it to keep her hand open, instead of curled. DD2 did not cry, but we used heavy distraction with stickers, and DH was there today too.

So I was very thankful for this therapist, and very thankful that her hand is looking good. The therapist said we should go back on Tuesday, and I probably won't if her hand still looks good. Oh, and the new pain med worked so well that when we got DD2 home, she was using that hand to push herself off of the floor, and it made me :shiver! She was also using that hand to bat at me and her sister playfully. So there was a definite difference in the action of the two different pain meds.

This has been such an awful ordeal, but I'm glad that it seems we've turned the corner and she won't have to endure any more torture sessions.

Thanks so much y'all for all of your support through this!:heart:heart

[Naked Camper]

thank goodness for the new therapist and that she was so understanding. :tu Glad to hear the new pain med is helping.

:nak