still having a hard time with meanness

[greenishmama]

so it's probably been a year now and nothing I've tried works.... and I know like the easy to love book says not to focus on what you want to stop but to focus on what you want... but I'm still deeply bothered by these type of actions...

4.5 yr old mean to brother like these examples:

almost 2 yr old happily just standing at coffee table. 4.5 yr old goes over, puts his head down on the table like he's tired and slides it over and subtly puts it on brothers hands and starts pressing....

they are nicely looking out the window together. I hear little one whining and go in and 4.5 yr. old is pushing on him- towars the side of the window so that he wouldn't be able to see out the window and had his arms around him so that he really couldn't get away.

4.5 yr old charges up to little brother and puts his face right in his and makes loud noises.

I could go on....many of these things are sneaky and subtle (that part bothers me more!)

How long is this going to go on? It seems that if I DON'T find a way to stop it is just going to go on forever. I'm literally exhausted and stressed out from it. I can NEVER leave them alone- like to go put a load of laundry in or something. I'm really and truly worn out. It is affecting my health!

[mokamoto]

:hugs. I don't know if this will help, but maybe Siblings Without Rivalry? I am just starting to read it, but it sounds like maybe DS1 is feeling jealous or something? Does he get special time with you and Dad by himself? I know after DS comes back from a "date" with me or DH he is really loving toward DD. Sometimes I call him on mean behavior, but some extra loving usually turns the tide. It seemed counterintuitive to me, coming from a punitive mindset- like rewarding bad behavior. But when I realized he was unconsciously signaling a need, I need to help him recognize that needy feeling and channel it toward meeting his need. Showing him he can feel better is the beginning of that process for us. Next when he is mature enough is pointing out how his body feels when he feels like being mean. Just some ideas. Hth :hug :heart

[Joanne]

I wouldn't be passive.


almost 2 yr old happily just standing at coffee table. 4.5 yr old goes over, puts his head down on the table like he's tired and slides it over and subtly puts it on brothers hands and starts pressing....


You pick up the older child and say "stop. That's rude and unkind" And you move him away.


they are nicely looking out the window together. I hear little one whining and go in and 4.5 yr. old is pushing on him- towars the side of the window so that he wouldn't be able to see out the window and had his arms around him so that he really couldn't get away.


You pick up the older child, tell him "that's rude and unkind" and move him.


4.5 yr old charges up to little brother and puts his face right in his and makes loud noises.


You pick up the older child and say "That's rude and unkind" and you move him.

How long is this going to go on? It seems that if I DON'T find a way to stop it is just going to go on forever. I'm literally exhausted and stressed out from it. I can NEVER leave them alone- like to go put a load of laundry in or something. I'm really and truly worn out. It is affecting my health!

You have babies. I think your expectations of your oldest's behavior is fairly high and your expectation of sibling interaction is probably unrealistic. What you describe seems to be well within "normal" and expected range. Expect variations of it through the years.

[greenishmama]

:hugs. I don't know if this will help, but maybe Siblings Without Rivalry?

yup- read it! it isn't helping me in these situations though. good book overall though.


Does he get special time with you and Dad by himself? I know after DS comes back from a "date" with me or DH he is really loving toward DD.

Often when we do special time with mom or dad he comes home and the meaness starts in immediately. It seems like no amount of attention is enough for him. He doesn't understand that he is getting plenty of positive attention from us, just not for the same things that little brother does. We express our interest and delight in his artwork for example. But he is jealous that little brother gets attention for saying a new word or something toddlerish.


I wouldn't be passive.


You pick up the older child and say "stop. That's rude and unkind" And you move him away.
....
You pick up the older child, tell him "that's rude and unkind" and move him.

You have babies. I think your expectations of your oldest's behavior is fairly high and your expectation of sibling interaction is probably unrealistic. What you describe seems to be well within "normal" and expected range. Expect variations of it through the years.

Now when I have done this he will scream, kick, cry, yell and it will go on and on and on.
We have tried "taking a break" and still he yells, screams, cries, etc. (it seems disturbing to little brother too)

[Joanne]

Now when I have done this he will scream, kick, cry, yell and it will go on and on and on.
We have tried "taking a break" and still he yells, screams, cries, etc. (it seems disturbing to little brother too)


That is unacceptable for a non special needs nearly schooled aged child. If he chooses to react that way to a firm, non punitive boundary, he chooses to be removed from people until he can behave appropriately.

Disengage.

[greenishmama]

That is unacceptable for a non special needs nearly schooled aged child. If he chooses to react that way to a firm, non punitive boundary, he chooses to be removed from people until he can behave appropriately.

Disengage.

Ok. I'm glad to hear that I"m not the only one that feels this way. I get so bogged down with different discipline ideas sometimes and many of the thoughts and techniques offered on this forum would absolutely not support that. When we have removed him to his room (and had to do so repeatedly) he eventually calmed down (after MUCH screaming and crying) and was much calmer and kinder the rest of the day.

[katiekind]

4's can make you pretty crazy....their behaviors (like the sliding over and pressing on brother) can be sort of subtle....they start in a good place and then gradually go over the line.

They do outgrow it.

He also sounds kinda bored. Getting a rise out of little brother can sometimes be the most interesting thing that occurs to a child when they're bored. Helping him find something better to do may also help.

[greenishmama]

That is unacceptable for a non special needs nearly schooled aged child. If he chooses to react that way to a firm, non punitive boundary, he chooses to be removed from people until he can behave appropriately.

Disengage.

ok- so I did tried carrying him to the chair in the living room today to have him calm down. I did it over and over. He would still continue to whimper and stamp his feet when he had supposedly calmed down and was ready to talk.

It's just been overwhelming lately. I'm really feeling like I have totally messed up the discipline so far. He's acting like a 2 year old. And I think part of the problem is that his little brother is almost two and because he is so jealous of him he also tries to act like him.

[FebFaith]

:hugheart Just wanted to give you a hug. I think you just have to keep doing what you are doing. :pray Said a prayer for you.

[bookworm-mama]

Have you read 123 Magic? I don't 100% agree with or use what this teaches, but maybe it will be a good fit for you. It's all about consistancy.

[greenishmama]

Have you read 123 Magic? I don't 100% agree with or use what this teaches, but maybe it will be a good fit for you. It's all about consistancy.

I haven't read it but have a friend who likes it. She's offered it to me in the past but the idea didn't seem to agree to me back then. Now it just might! It hasn't seemed to help her son stop having certain behaviors but it does seem to give her some consistent means of "dealing" with it.

I also want to get the Home Improvement book by Scott Turansky. Anyone read that?