s/o parenting self-talk

[DancingWithElves]

so do you wanna learn to practice doing this? i do :heart
can we talk about it, and maybe use some examples or whatever?

[Blueberrybabies]

I do. definitely need examples.

[AngelaVA]

Not sure I understand but yet is sounds like something I could use. so subbing

[Havilah]

Not sure I understand but yet is sounds like something I could use. so subbing
:nak2:yes

[allisonintx]

subbing to come back with my examples.

[StrangeTraveller]

:popcorn i have no idea what this is

[mommy2abigail]

Forgive me if this isn't what you are talking about...

but what works for me is to repeat little mantra's or quotes from people I admire. So like, right now it's "The point is the I don't care if I have well-behaved children. It's that well-behaved isn't the goal. The goal is teaching kindness, respect, dignity, and compassion." by MaryMunchkins on here.


Or, when they are crying/whining/tantruming, I will repeat to myself "it's not about me" in my head. Both to remind myself that they aren't doing it to make me crazy, drive me insane, or because of something I did/didn't do. And also to remember to be present in the moment with them, and not worry about what others may be thinking. HTH

[euromom]

:popcorn

[musiclady]

subbing here... although not sure what it is.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DancingWithElves]

so,it's a spin off this thread http://gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=341448

basically, you are re-parenting yourself. when you are going through something, and realize you yourself are about to "misbehave", like throw a fit, lash out, express yourself inappropriately somehow, you talk to yourself the way a parent ought to talk to a child in this situation, perhaps, the way your own parents never did.

my example: i don't feel well. my mother used to get angry at me for not feeling well, and would act as if i am ruining her life/am in the way/am a bad child. So, now when I don't feel well, i am real pill! :lol i whine, and i get angry, and I apologize, and i feel guilty, etc.

My self-talk: it's really awful that i don't feel well. i hope i feel well soon, and this is all behind me.[validating my own feelings, showing compassion to myself] i am a valuable, good person, i just happen to have a health problem at this time [gently confronting my negative beliefs] I am going to take good care of myself, and continue to be a loving gentle mother and wife without over-exerting myself. [being realistic, re-visiting what's important now]

now i just have to actually repeat it to myself.

oh, lookie, it's euromom's due date today :hug :brownies

[tigerlily]

I'm in:yes

[filmgirl2911]

:cup
subbing to follow along

[Codi]

Thank you for spinning this! I didn't want to totally derail the other thread and would love to hear more ideas!

[Herbwifemama]

I'm in. I tend to berate myself when I'm upset (maybe that's what my parents did... I know I saw my dad get mad at dd for losing her temper last time we were there. :mad) I think GBDing myself would work a lot better, and then whatever I play in my head is a lot more likely to come out of my mouth when I'm parenting dd.

I used to get upset at her for accidents- spilling things- because I do that to myself. I've learned to be a lot gentler with us both. No point in blaming an accident on her. It's just an accident.

[charla]

:popcorn

[Quiteria]

:popcorn

[happyhousewife]

:popcorn

[Kiara.I]

:watermelon ('cause I'm really thirsty right now and popcorn just doesn't appeal...)

[abh5e8]

hmm...not sure if this is really it. but i often repeat to myself "someday i am going to miss this...someday i am going to miss this...someday i am going to miss this" and it (almost) ALWAYS brings things into persepective. it has won me over to many a one-more-story/song/kiss/hug etc. givento my children.

[MaybeGracie]

hmm...not sure if this is really it. but i often repeat to myself "someday i am going to miss this...someday i am going to miss this...someday i am going to miss this" and it (almost) ALWAYS brings things into persepective. it has won me over to many a one-more-story/song/kiss/hug etc. givento my children.

Absolutely. :yes I seem to be reminding myself of that a lot lately. :shifty :giggle

[mommylobster]

I have never heard about this before and I think I need it so I'm subbing.

[Mum2Es]

When I saw this concept from Allison in another thread I thought it was brilliant, so I am definitely in to learn more about it. I need this!

[Herbwifemama]

:poke Allison....


No pressure or anything. :shifty

[Firebird Rising]

"I'm not afraid of dealing with my kid's big feelings."

BBL

[allisonintx]

ok, what it comes down to for me was learning how to manage my own big feelings.

I have LOTS of BIG FEELINGS.
I don't do anything by halves. This is very overwhelming for me and for everyone else in my world. Dh was Born to Be Mild, and this the only reason we work. He's the perfect chill for my fire.

I was a very very angry mommy. I yelled at my children all the time. Wrath was the bugagoo with whom I struggled, almost every moment of every day.

As I learned here at GCM to validate my children's feelings, I realized that I was also doing it to ME when I was whigging out (often out loud :shifty ) and that I had stopped being the Screaming Mimi Mommy.

I was a mother I kinda liked.

I was a friend people weren't afraid of/intimidated by, because I was learning to modulate my big feelings all the way around. My oldest daughter noticed.

One day, after I had been doing this, apparently for a couple of years, I really went OFF on my children, and dd1 said, "Wow, I can't remember the last time you did THAT." blink blink

I was doing the happy dance :danceALL OVER GCM because I realized that Wrath had been sent to the back of the bus and was no longer my initial reaction in every situation where I was unhappy with my kids, or unhappy in my life.

Validation is a powerful tool. Women are regularly taught, in the west, that our big feelings are unimportant and we should be more like men (whatever THAT means :rolleyes2 ) and that we should just stuff them down and "get over it" This just doesn't work. This is the guilt/shame model. Identification of my actual feelings pointed me toward solutions rather than frustrations in my parenting and in my life, in ways that "pure logic" never could.

_______________________


on another note, something that has been another major part of re-parenting myself was learning the actual definition of the word Frustrated.

Frustrated means Blocked from a Goal.

when I validate the feeling of Frustrated in myself, I can then ask, "Why am I blocked from this goal? How else could I achieve it? Do I need to re-evaluate this goal?"

Frustration is a thief of joy in parenting. Understanding that I was frustrated and not just MAD, was really important.

[DancingWithElves]

allison, lots to think about :think :yes
can you elaborate/give example for mad vs. frustrated? pls

[ArmsOfLove]

((((Allison))))

it's so important to remember that anger is a secondary emotion--it only comes out when primary emotions are stuffed. When we learn how to address and express our primary emotions we don't need to progress to anger :heart

[saturnfire16]

subbing

[allisonintx]

Ok. This morning is a good example.

We cleaned quite a lot this week. The kids worked in the Family room for days, because it was such a disaster.
They had friends sleep over Friday night, and they trashed the room. I went in there and saw the floor. Oh my word, I was furious. Mad. Seeing Red.

What I would have done before: Scream all the children's names, call them on the floor, yell at them about how trashed the room was and ORDER them to get busy making it right, with no little guilt and shame to go along with the instructions.

What actually happened:
I took a deep breath and had a big sigh. I was actually hurt because the room was a wreck, and frustrated because we had worked so hard to make it nice, and also frustrated because, now, I was going to have to be the Mean Mommy and make them come back and work until it was clean AGAIN. I validated my own feelings about the mess in the room, my hurt and frustration, and was able to just call the kids and say,

"you guys thrashed this room. I feel hurt that you left it this way after we worked so hard. Leaving it like this was disrespectful to me and to yourselves and all the hard work we did together. You need to fix that. You may go back outside to play once it's put to rights."

15 minutes later, the solution had been affected, and the girls went back to play

[MTmomma]

Just subbing. I've come to realize that I have so so many issues within myself that need to be dealt with if I'm ever going to be able to parent effectively. I need this thread like I need water!

[Blue-EyedLady]

:cup

You all are so wise - I'm just going to join in and soak in all the wisdom I can glean.

[Maggirayne]

:cup

And Allison, your Born to be Mild description fits my DH to a T!

[Marsha]

subbing.

[Herbwifemama]

((((Allison))))

it's so important to remember that anger is a secondary emotion--it only comes out when primary emotions are stuffed. When we learn how to address and express our primary emotions we don't need to progress to anger :heart

Tell me more. How can we identify our primary emotions? What are common primary emotions when you feel anger? I can definitely see frustration, as defined by Allison, and possibly stress- which I"m not quite sure is technically an emotion, but it's a trigger for my anger and depression.

I remember in college when I said "I'M MAD!" :mad I went :idea "I'm MAD!" It was so freeing to be able to acknowledge it. My mom is NOT a validater- she is a suppressor, don't-rock-the-boater. And her typical response to something that upsets me is, "Oh well". NOTHING makes me madder than that now. I have a hard time telling if I've actually got a reason to be mad about or I"m just being a brat. I've gotten stuck there though. I don't know what to do once I know I"m mad. I fall back on the stuff my dad did- yell and hit stuff (not people).

Allison, thank you. It gives me a lot of hope to see someone has gotten THROUGH this anger thing. I thought I was doing so good. :( DD said the other day, "Why are you mad all the time?" :cry I thought that I was doing so good, not having a temper tantrum for weeks. The day after that, I DID have a bad day. Anyway, I have hope. Can you (or someone else) script something for me to say? When I'm mad or when dd is mad?

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

Ok. This morning is a good example.

We cleaned quite a lot this week. The kids worked in the Family room for days, because it was such a disaster.
They had friends sleep over Friday night, and they trashed the room. I went in there and saw the floor. Oh my word, I was furious. Mad. Seeing Red.

What I would have done before: Scream all the children's names, call them on the floor, yell at them about how trashed the room was and ORDER them to get busy making it right, with no little guilt and shame to go along with the instructions.

What actually happened:
I took a deep breath and had a big sigh. I was actually hurt because the room was a wreck, and frustrated because we had worked so hard to make it nice, and also frustrated because, now, I was going to have to be the Mean Mommy and make them come back and work until it was clean AGAIN. I validated my own feelings about the mess in the room, my hurt and frustration, and was able to just call the kids and say,

"you guys thrashed this room. I feel hurt that you left it this way after we worked so hard. Leaving it like this was disrespectful to me and to yourselves and all the hard work we did together. You need to fix that. You may go back outside to play once it's put to rights."

15 minutes later, the solution had been affected, and the girls went back to play

You did two things: you identified the feelings behind the anger. And you validated your emotions. And I can prolly figure out my own feelings. I'm an intrapersonal genius. I know myself really well. But I need a script for validation. What do you say?

[ArmsOfLove]

when I was mired in anger (my father is uncomfortable with emotions at all--especially my big emotions :( ) I realized what can cause me anger includes primary emotions and physical states ignored:

hungry
anxious/nervous
lonely
tired
needing to pee
frustrated
disappointed
sad
unsure/confused
trying to think and internal or external forces won't let me (bad for an ADD mama w/ 5 children :crazy)

So I worked on identifying the *feelings* that come *before* the losing it moment. They include, for me, tension in my neck and shoulders, self talk that is mean and violent in my head, and loss of focus. The sooner I can realize this is happening the quicker I stop and take a self-evaluation.

Why am I feeling this way? What is happening?

I go through the situation, and tune into my body and my emotions, and then I address what is causing it.

And if I start to lose it, I can still catch myself and change the next moment. I am not a victim of my big feelings and no one else need be either :heart

[hopeforchange]

:popcorn

[Marsha]

this may be OT, but in an earlier thread, a woman said that her mother said "oh well" a lot. Well, my oldest is a DRAMA QUEEN, and I say "I don't care" a lot. I need to find a new phrase. Usually like if I say " you need to go clean your room now" after appropriate transitoning attempts becasue transitioning is difficult for her, she can fall apart and start saying stuff like "i'll just run away" or "i hate you" "you are a mean mom" blah blah blah. And I say "I don't care, just clean your room" in an attempt to focus on what IS rather than the irrational words.

Are you saying I shouldn't do that? Any attempt to validate her at those times come across as "feeding" her reasons to feel the way she feels, and Lord knows she doesn't need more reasons, kwim?

[jewelmcjem]

I am weeping because I want this. I so desperately want this. I'm dealing with it at Celebrate Recovery, but have slacked off there too. I have got to change things, b/c my children are following in my wake, setting off their own maelstroms.

[Mama Rophe]

this may be OT, but in an earlier thread, a woman said that her mother said "oh well" a lot. Well, my oldest is a DRAMA QUEEN, and I say "I don't care" a lot. I need to find a new phrase. Usually like if I say " you need to go clean your room now" after appropriate transitoning attempts becasue transitioning is difficult for her, she can fall apart and start saying stuff like "i'll just run away" or "i hate you" "you are a mean mom" blah blah blah. And I say "I don't care, just clean your room" in an attempt to focus on what IS rather than the irrational words.

Are you saying I shouldn't do that? Any attempt to validate her at those times come across as "feeding" her reasons to feel the way she feels, and Lord knows she doesn't need more reasons, kwim?

In that sort of situation I would say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way." or "It sounds like you are having some big feelings. I love you and if you want to talk respectfully about them, I'm here."

Just saying "I don't care." may give her the feeling that you just don't care about her, not her emotions. KWIM?


Herbwifemama, Positive Discipline talks about anger being the secondary emotion. It was very eye opening to me when I read it because anger is my MAIN problem.

:cup for more on this.

[Marsha]

In that sort of situation I would say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way." or "It sounds like you are having some big feelings. I love you and if you want to talk respectfully about them, I'm here."

Just saying "I don't care." may give her the feeling that you just don't care about her, not her emotions. KWIM?


Herbwifemama, Positive Discipline talks about anger being the secondary emotion. It was very eye opening to me when I read it because anger is my MAIN problem.

:cup for more on this.

yeah, I think I"m talking to myself, to calm myself donw, because I get wiggy when she wigs out like that LOL. So I'm using the wrong words. Which often provides her with another focus for her feelings LOL, and then she goes into feeling sorry for herself and I apologize and hug her and well.....I never feel like any of it is teaching her to cope with like....life.

She has very limited coping skills sometimes. She doesn't have innate ones.

[allisonintx]

How did I learn to identify my actual feelings?

It happened by accident. :shifty

I was working hard on identifying my CHILDREN's feelings so that I could validate them, and learned my own in the process.

My mom thinks that the validation of feelings in a situation is STUPID and makes fun of people who do it :sigh

Starting with saying , "I'm angry because there's crap all over the family room floor" is a fair validation of my feelings, but not a great one because it's pretty vague. So I breathe, and think a little harder.

"I'm hurt because I feel like it doesn't matter to my children that we all worked so hard. I'm frustrated because it's never-ending. I'm scared because my big feelings are SO BIG that I feel like I could easily hurt someone physically.....and oh, yea, by the way, I haven't eaten any protein today at all, so that's probably why it all feels so intense."

Now I'm pretty rational, because I took the time to identify what was actually going on in my head and my body.

This takes longer than lashing out or yelling. Like anything good, it takes more work. Organic fruit is more flavorful than pesticide ridden fruit, and is more expensive because it takes more effort to grow.

Another word for expensive is "Dear" which also means Regarded with deep affection; cherished by someone.

I am dear; my children are dear, we are precious in His sight and worthy of the extra time and effort.

When I'm going to explode, I walk away. I start the self talk, even if what it starts with is bile "I HATE, Grouse, Grumble, Spew....until I can breathe and think and evaluate the situation for what it REALLY is.

Start with validating positive feelings in yourself and your children. They're a bit easier because your brain isn't under stress. "you're really enjoying that play-dough" "when you hug me, I feel important and loved" "I'm feeling confident today/right now" "I'm relaxed" "you are so joyful!" "You're really satisfied with your good work on that drawing"

FWIW, everyone responds differently to validation and how it is given. I don't like to be told how I feel, but I do like it when someone notices how I'm feeling. EX: "You are frustrated" is not a good validation for me. "You seem frustrated" is :shrug3 It may seem like semantics, but it's important for myself.

[Mama Rophe]

FWIW, everyone responds differently to validation and how it is given. I don't like to be told how I feel, but I do like it when someone notices how I'm feeling. EX: "You are frustrated" is not a good validation for me. "You seem frustrated" is :shrug3 It may seem like semantics, but it's important for myself.

This just caused a lightbulb moment. I can't stand it when people tell me how I feel. I think that's my biggest hangup with that part of GBD. I can tell that my kids don't like it either. So, instead of saying, "You are frustrated because...." I can say, "You look frustrated because..." Or "You seem frustrated because..."

Thanks!!

[saturnfire16]

I am weeping because I want this. I so desperately want this. I'm dealing with it at Celebrate Recovery, but have slacked off there too. I have got to change things, b/c my children are following in my wake, setting off their own maelstroms.

:hug2 Me too, right down to slacking off at CR.

For a while I felt like I was making so much progress in so many ways. Lately, it's like it's all come to a screeching halt. Some of the progress stuck and I'm doing better than I was 6 months ago. But I also feel myself reverting back in some ways and I'm not liking it.

[shaslove]

:popcorn I so need this.

[marigold]

:cup This is what I am just beginning to learn about. What a blessing to see examples of how to think a situation through and react calmly instead of loosing it.

[ArmsOfLove]

this may be OT, but in an earlier thread, a woman said that her mother said "oh well" a lot. Well, my oldest is a DRAMA QUEEN, and I say "I don't care" a lot. I need to find a new phrase. Usually like if I say " you need to go clean your room now" after appropriate transitoning attempts becasue transitioning is difficult for her, she can fall apart and start saying stuff like "i'll just run away" or "i hate you" "you are a mean mom" blah blah blah. And I say "I don't care, just clean your room" in an attempt to focus on what IS rather than the irrational words.

Are you saying I shouldn't do that? Any attempt to validate her at those times come across as "feeding" her reasons to feel the way she feels, and Lord knows she doesn't need more reasons, kwim?

I would not say "I don't care" because you aren't saying what you don't care about and it will be heard, especially by a child prone to big feelings, and simply that--you don't care.

I would just drop that and stick with instructions.

Waaah

You need to go clean your room.

I'm going to run away.

you need to clean your room anyway ;)

[DancingWithElves]

So, my son gets my goat. easy-peasy. our personalities work like that. and i can get SO wrapped up in a situation, i see no way out. and i do things i regret. example:
(eight months ago or so) i'm changing him. everything fine. suddenly, he kicks me, hard. flashback to being physically abused by my father (being smacked when i least expect it). i start to explain to myself: "he is a child, he is impulsive, he does not mean to hurt you" but this is taking too long and ds already kicked me again. All i can see is red, my face is provoking him to also start looking very angry and hateful and he continues kicking and i CAN NOT STOP putting that diaper on, as if my life depends on it, it must be put.on.now. and a few seconds later i scream out and him ds back. and then i feel depressed for days, completely powerless and messed up beyond repair.

ok, so lesson learned: self talk was too slow and this scenario makes me feel powerless.

so next time this same thing happens, except when i realize i'm holding my breath and ds is starting to look like something evil to me, i just drop my hands to my sides, and walk away. just like that. deep breath. i go pee. POWER. i feel on top of the world. and funny thing is, i don't even need to validate, or talk to myself about anything anymore. it's GONE. poof. just like that. and i go back to finishing that diaper with ds grinning at me.

so, i learned that sometimes self-talk is too slow, and i just need to walk away, and *then* deal with it, or sometimes, "it" is no longer there to even deal with after i'm out of the situation.

validating my own feelings:
sometimes i can't do it after someone else denied it to me. example: my layer acted like what happened in the collision was not a big deal. i'm mad: hurt, belittled, patronized. but i feel like now i can't validate my feelings b/c he didn't. :( it's hard for me when that happens. i usually have to wait. yesterday i managed to explain to myself that:
1. he never met me
2. he's not a doctor
3. he is trying to close the case, b/c that what *I* want, and he can't very well close it and at the same time acknowledge that I am not well.

after i did all that i can better validate what i am feeling...

just a lot of thinking out loud.

[allisonintx]

yes, WALK AWAY is always a good first thing to do, when you're seeing red. You can't self-talk in that kind of crisis. Breathing space is a must when things are like that.

[Blue-EyedLady]

Ok, walk me through this one: DS has a poopy diaper. He's having an food allergy reaction, so the diaper is more like diarrhea - poop everywhere that doesn't wipe up easily. DS is being uncooperative (because he's 2 yo or is having an allergic reaction, hard to tell), and is trying to get his hands down in the business while arching his back and making it impossible to clean him up.

My current MO = try to pin down all 4 limbs simultaneously in a most ungentle way while wiping up the mess while yelling at him to relax and hold still. Not working so well for any of us... :blush

I can't walk away - there are multiple safety issues at play here (the poop could easily end up in his mouth, he could end up flipping off the changing table and hurting himself) not to mention the potential for HUGE mess. The only self-talk I can think of in the moment is "He's only a kid. He just wants to play. His tummy doesn't feel good, that's why he's acting this way." Lovely words, but I'm still seeing red...

[Firebird Rising]

change him on the floor. It was too hard to change on a table after a while. When they're on the floor, I put a changing pad down and strap it just above their chest. Sometimes when they are kicking, I will pin their legs down with the side of my knees (I sit cross-legged) while I get them cleaned up.

Anyway, I'd definitely take him off the table and put the pad on the floor at that age.

jen D.

[ArmsOfLove]

lay him on the floor in front of you with his feet towards your body and his head straight out. Use your feet, one on each arm, to gently keep him from sticking his hands into the mess. Change as quick as you can while you sing a song about diaper changing :)

[DancingWithElves]

yep. what they said. i also learned "stabilizing" and then walking away. in your case it may be taking off the diaper, wiping him up, and then walking away if you still need to calm down. i've done that a lot when saleem was just under and just past two. :yes

[Blue-EyedLady]

lay him on the floor in front of you with his feet towards your body and his head straight out. Use your feet, one on each arm, to gently keep him from sticking his hands into the mess. Change as quick as you can while you sing a song about diaper changing :)

I'm picturing this position, and I'm :scratch DS would worm his way out of this in about 10 seconds. He's strong, and I'm not. He's flexible, I can't touch my toes. I usually lean most of the weight of my upper body on his arms and legs to keep them contained. If my foot is on his arm, I will be too far away to be able to reach DS's bottom, and his arms and legs will be too far away from my center of gravity to be able to exert any meaningful pressure. So from a practical standpoint, I don't understand how this would work.

And I don't see how this helps with the whole self-talk part of the discussion, either. Maybe I'm missing the point, but I thought that the self-talk is to get you to the point where you can be calm instead of angry and yelling? FWIW, this exact scenario plays out several times each day at our house. It doesn't matter if it's DH or I (or both of us) changing the diaper - neither one of us can keep our cool in this situation.

I must be missing some important piece of the puzzle here - please help me understand!

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

yep. what they said. i also learned "stabilizing" and then walking away. in your case it may be taking off the diaper, wiping him up, and then walking away if you still need to calm down. i've done that a lot when saleem was just under and just past two. :yes

What does "stabilizing" mean?

[ArmsOfLove]

there are multiple issues in the diaper scenario. the very real issue of poop everywhere and self talk. The singing reminds me that this is not really a big deal in the scheme of things. I can't change the poop situation, and have to change the diaper ;)

I am thinking you aren't picturing what I'm trying to describe because I have no idea how it would through your center of gravity off :scratch I'll try to get a picture uploaded but for now let me try describing again.

You sit on the floor with your knees bent and your feet out in front of you. Put him between your legs, laying down, looking at you, with his feet in your hands (so you can lift his legs and change his diaper :tu) Pin his arms to the ground with your feet and, if necessary, use the inside of your calves/feet to hold his upper body still. It's very gentle and practical but it may take a picture to explain :shifty

[Codi]

What do you do when you can't walk away? Like, if your children are following you around your tiny house and your just trying to get one second to think a clear thought through one crying and one asking something you've already said no to a gazillion times. :shifty Would you lock yourself in the bathroom and try to self talk in there? :cup

One of my biggest triggers is what I bolded below.




hungry
anxious/nervous
lonely
tired
needing to pee
frustrated
disappointed
sad
unsure/confused
trying to think and internal or external forces won't let me (bad for an ADD mama w/ 5 children :crazy)

[CapeTownMommy]

This thread has been more helpful than I can say in words. :happytears

[Mum2Es]

What do you do when you can't walk away? Like, if your children are following you around your tiny house and your just trying to get one second to think a clear thought through one crying and one asking something you've already said no to a gazillion times. :shifty Would you lock yourself in the bathroom and try to self talk in there? :cup


This is a very familiar scenario for me...if I really can't get a grip on my anger and I know I NEED a second to myself, I stick a dummy in the baby's mouth, turn the TV on, and walk outside onto the deck. TV has an instant mesmerising effect on my kids and I can stand outside in the fresh air and take a few calming breaths and get perspective.

[Can Dance]

I think I am getting better at this. I am starting to recognise hunger in myself, or when I am truly preoccupied with something else. I was on the phone with the insurance company this morning over a massive house repair problem and I am wound up super tight about the cost and concerned they will refuse to cover it. anyway, the kids were also asking for bfast at the same time, and for cereal that they've eaten all of. I got snippy with them, super snippy when it wasn't them, it was *my* stress over this insurance/repair situation across the ocean to deal with. I felt bad they got the brunt of my short replies and basically growling at them while I was on the phone. :sigh

however, I was going to say that I did EXACTLY what Allison said about my kids room. except I was probably a bit more mad about it. :O I was like " I see your room and I am SO UPSET about it. I work SO HARD cleaning your clothes, folding your clothes and then you guys pull them out of your dresser and throw them all over your room and it makes me SO ANGRY." I didn't insult them, or belittle, but I was mad. my oldest dd is finally at the point where she is "getting" this, and I'd like to say happily cleaned her room, but she didn't until the next day with a bit of help. now if I could just take my yell-e voice out of it, I think I would be doing okay....
in some ways I cant WAIT to parent older kids, I feel so much better with parenting my oldest all ready. we can have real conversations that she understands. its lovely. :heart

[Marsha]

What do you do when you can't walk away? Like, if your children are following you around your tiny house and your just trying to get one second to think a clear thought through one crying and one asking something you've already said no to a gazillion times. :shifty Would you lock yourself in the bathroom and try to self talk in there? :cup

One of my biggest triggers is what I bolded below.

me too, I totally have ADHD, and I never knew this symptom until I had kids!! My coping skills didn't work when I had tiny kids who wanted mommy, mommy,. mommy.

I think that's the source of a lot of my rage and out of control feeling, and certainly didn't help the depression. My AD (wellbutrin) actually helps with the ADHD as well as the depression. For that, it's a godsend. In fact, I wonder if helping my ADHD wasn't as helpful to my overall wellbeing as helping the depression.

[allisonintx]

What do you do when you can't walk away? Like, if your children are following you around your tiny house and your just trying to get one second to think a clear thought through one crying and one asking something you've already said no to a gazillion times. :shifty Would you lock yourself in the bathroom and try to self talk in there? :cup

Yes, actually, I have spent a good deal of time locked in my bathroom for the WALK AWAY & BREATHE portion of the program.

The kids may be beating on the door, but I'm breathing so I'm not screaming or hitting.

FWIW, I think that there is a time and a place for yelling. I'm not opposed to using my Big Voice, and I do it regularly enough. I just want to make sure that when I do, it's an attention getting tool and not being used to guilt/shame/intimidate my children into submission.

[Blue-EyedLady]

there are multiple issues in the diaper scenario. the very real issue of poop everywhere and self talk. The singing reminds me that this is not really a big deal in the scheme of things. I can't change the poop situation, and have to change the diaper ;)

I am thinking you aren't picturing what I'm trying to describe because I have no idea how it would through your center of gravity off :scratch I'll try to get a picture uploaded but for now let me try describing again.

You sit on the floor with your knees bent and your feet out in front of you. Put him between your legs, laying down, looking at you, with his feet in your hands (so you can lift his legs and change his diaper :tu) Pin his arms to the ground with your feet and, if necessary, use the inside of your calves/feet to hold his upper body still. It's very gentle and practical but it may take a picture to explain :shifty

I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO :mad :mad :mad just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."

[TraceMama]

subbing

I need to read all these tips when I have more time :O

[kwisie]

:popcorn This is really good stuff. :think

[ValiantJoy07]

:popcorn

[jewelmcjem]

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

For this issue, I tend go to playful parenting. I tickle the back of their knees, taking it out of a battle issue. They can't help but bend their knees up into froggy position, and I can get the poop taken care of. It helps me, self-talk wise, if I can remind myself that they are NOT defying me. It looks like it, it feels like it, they simply don't have the development to truly defy. It's a constant self-talk mantra here between 2 and 3, because I had 2 years of Ezzo whisperings that they are manipulating me and trying to "win". If I can take it OUT of battle mode, I do a lot better keeping my cool.

[Marsha]

I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO :mad :mad :mad just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."

oh yeah I know the physical stance you speak of. it is frustrating. And seemed designed to frustrate us. He probably does feel powerless and doing the one thing he can control. You can't bend him and break him (I've often felt like I'd break their hips or something if I tried). Have you tried talking to him? Getting him to laugh? or sing? Anything that lets him relax for that crucial 10 secondsto unlock legs and quickly clean.

And for as seeing :mad when it happens because he is deliberately blocking you from cleaning up poop....well, that's the only thing you can control, is how you see it,w hat intent you assign to it, and how you react to it. Which is what the self talk is about.

I had girls and neither of them were SUPER hard to change. But I remember I had to change where we did it, how we did it (lying in front of the TV watching a show seemed to help some as I recall).

[MomtoJGJ]

I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO :mad :mad :mad just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."

I am also too short to do changes like the example. I change them on the floor, and sit beside them (when they are in that stage)... I make them bend their knees however I need to, and then kinda lean over their legs over their stomach. It squishes them a bit, but it lets me clean them up in about 2 seconds... then we take a breather for the diaper part. A lot of times after I've cleaned them I'll ask if they want to put their diaper on like a baby or step in like a big kid..... let them choose, and if they want to step in I fasten the diaper and let them step in, then fix it.

[Blueberrybabies]

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO :mad :mad :mad just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."
I sooo understand this, as we have this exact scenerio with my 4yo. Reading your description, and thinking back to times I've had to deal with this, I can break the anger down into:
fear/panic that the poop will get everywhere/he'll eat it

frustration that I just want to get him cleaned off thoroughly so it won't make him more sore, and he won't let me and I can't get him to understand that

I will say that at this point, the arching and clamping really only happens when he's having loose poop and his bottom is sore. Away from the situation, I have the perspective to realize that his bottom really hurts and the wiping makes it worse and he's really just trying to protect himself. I keep not actually doing this myself :shifty but I think the best thing here would be to try changing standing up in the tub. That way the mess is contained to an easily cleaned place, and you could spray him off if you have a handheld shower, or pour water with a cup, both of which would be less painful than wiping.
:hug2

[MomtoJGJ]

excellent idea about the tub... I'll have to remember that in a few months ;)

[Buela]

I find I CANNOT change dd on the floor (when she's feisty anyways), I am more likely to get frustrated and loose my cool. I prefer the change table -- she cannot get away from me, and she is too smart to fall off. And yup, I've left her on it.

On the floor she can kick me in the chest (I"m very short so my body is quite close to her while changing) roll over and get poop on the floor or run away.

As for the hands in the poop, I started something with her that has helped immensely, it is a game. I say quickly "hands on your head" over and over again really fast, then change to "pull your ears" or whatever and she races to do the next instruction.

I too struggle with major anger issues so I am :popcorn and watching this thread.
What doesn't make sense to me (and get your tomatoes ready) is that all the self-talk and strategy presented here do nothing to end my frustration. If frustration is what happens when your goal is thwarted, for example, getting out the door in a timely manner and I need to lock myself in the bathroom, walk away etc etc I would just get more mad? Cause in the mean time dd would be walking around the house in her salty boots yelling etc. So then not only am I upset that we are late, but also that my floor needs mopping..... sigh

[Shawn]

subbing:)

[BlessedBlue]

:think Self-talk isn't the solution, but it's a means to finding the solution, right? Or is self-talk just a means of retaining sanity and calm?

[Codi]

I think it is just a way to get through your initial anger issues.

[Herbwifemama]

Self talk, as I understand it, is a way of reprogramming your mind. It's taking those old tapes that play and erasing them, and replacing them with tapes that serve you better. And it becomes the tapes your children play in their minds, so hopefully, they don't have to do the "unlearning" that we do. Especially if you self talk out loud. :) (And I think we SHOULD self talk out loud, I want my child to hear me struggle, to hear me replace my old bad thoughts with better ones.) As the saying goes, change your thoughts, change your actions, change your character.

[DancingWithElves]

I too struggle with major anger issues so I am :popcorn and watching this thread.
What doesn't make sense to me (and get your tomatoes ready) is that all the self-talk and strategy presented here do nothing to end my frustration. If frustration is what happens when your goal is thwarted, for example, getting out the door in a timely manner and I need to lock myself in the bathroom, walk away etc etc I would just get more mad? Cause in the mean time dd would be walking around the house in her salty boots yelling etc. So then not only am I upset that we are late, but also that my floor needs mopping..... sigh

what we are saying, is that when it is a choice b/w hitting a child and walking away, it is always walking away (if it's safe to leave the child) YES, it is better to mop your house ten times over than hit your kid, call him/her names, scare/berate/guilt them. :yes

but if you are just frustrated, angry/hurt/upset, and do not feel you will express yourself inappropriately, then no, walking away will probably not do much. we're talking about different scenarios that play out in our lives in the context of our feelings.
so, if you are frustrated about leaving late, how do you act towards those around you and yourself? is it healthy/productive/helpful/appropriate? if no, how can *you* change it? kwim? :)

---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

:think Self-talk isn't the solution, but it's a means to finding the solution, right? Or is self-talk just a means of retaining sanity and calm?

for me, all of the above, depending on the situation. :)

---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

OK: stabilizing--
i remember (tearfully) prying a cooking spoon from ds's hands so hard that it hurt him and he cried. :( Hello, Irene, this is not an emergency. yes, you need the spoon, yes you are upset about other issues right now and you're putting a lot of nervous energy into stirring that pot of soup, but ds holding a spoon you want is not that kind of emergency! :doh:blush

however, if it were a lightbulb, i'd have to get it from him, as best i could at that time, b/c it *is* dangerous. :shrug3

basically, when i'm seeing red (about to do something inappropriate, yell, call a name, hit, whatever) all i get to do is stabilize and then i need to take care of myself. So, it may mean i move a pot of soup to the back burner. It may mean i wrestle a knife out of ds's hands, which he grabbed from the counter. I may mean i put the baby where she is safe and ds cannot get to her. that's *IT*. then it's my turn. then i breathe (in the bathroom, outside, in the closet, in the bedroom with door locked) sure, ds may run about bucket naked, he may throw something in frustration, he may hit the door. as those things are happening i feel like : "i should be there right now" but i learned (fairy recently) that i cannot be there until i can behave appropriately. i just don't get to treat my kids that way. i just don't. it's not acceptable. just b/c i don't want to witness their big feelings, or clean up, or have a toy broken in frustration, does not give me permission to stay in the situation while i am out of control and lash out. :sadno again, that's what my mother did. i have learned a better way. a HARDER way, but a better way for myself and my children.

[allisonintx]

Here's where I'm coming from.

An emotionally healthy reaction is a Christlike one. I want to disciple myself to be more Christlike.

I self-talk to break old patterns, and the old tapes that play in my head. Because, even though I reject those old patterns, they are/were still my ingrained First Response. When I've done it enough times, my First Response changes.

[Mum2Es]

i cannot be there until i can behave appropriately. i just don't get to treat my kids that way. i just don't. it's not acceptable. just b/c i don't want to witness their big feelings, or clean up, or have a toy broken in frustration, does not give me permission to stay in the situation while i am out of control and lash out. :sadno again, that's what my mother did. i have learned a better way. a HARDER way, but a better way for myself and my children.

:troubled :happytears :idea

Thank you Irene. Thank you SO much. The things you are saying are ringing so true for me and I really need to hear them. :heart

[StrangeTraveller]

:troubled :happytears :idea

Thank you Irene. Thank you SO much. The things you are saying are ringing so true for me and I really need to hear them. :heart

:yes:heart

[ValiantJoy07]

Thank you so much for this thread!!!! I have 7 3x5 cards sitting next to me full of ideas and quotes to hang up in the kitchen where I can see them all the time.

I also wrote down a list of things that fill my cup and drain me...

Things that drain are:
-interuptions to an important task
-not enough sleep
-big messes (after I worked hard to clean)
-jobs that have no defined beginning or end.
-not being heard or listened to
-being unsure/confused.
-feeling underappreciated.

Having that list written out and in the front of my mind has helped so much just seeing sitautions over the past few weeks where some self-talk and validating those feelings would have helped...And it's things I run across all the time.
WOW! This has been so helfpul! THANK YOU!:heart:clap

(I also wrote a list for dd1 and I think it will help me see areas where I can be more graceful towards her and also validate her feelings not just snap :sick)

[Maggirayne]

:cup I sooooo need this.

[mariposa]

Wow! What an amazing thread. I've been talking to my dh about how as I try to help my ds express his big feelings in a healthy way that I'm having to work on expressing my big feelings in a healthy way. So far I've gotten pretty good at taking a deep breath and saying a quick prayer. On a few occasions I've told my ds that "Mama needs a break" and walked into another room for a moment. As a very emotional gal, this thread really has been helpful in understanding how important it is to take my breathing and breaks to a deeper level by taking to time to identify and talk through my feelings when I'm able to before reacting. Thanks so much for all of the great examples and tools!:heart
Debbie

[allisonintx]

Debbie :welcome we're glad you're here.

[Serafine]

Allison - DH wanted me to tell you how thankful he is to you for this self-parenting thing. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY he says, "man, this whole self-parenting thing is amazing."

[Herbwifemama]

You know, my biggest parenting tool atm is a quick prayer. I read somewhere that "God, help me!" is a valid prayer (it's somewhere in the Bible, I can't remember where), and I've used it more than once, and He's been faithful to answer it. I usually have a miraculous supply of patience, or a novel idea on how to handle the situation.

[DancingWithElves]

oh guys... :(
3s hit here a little early. ds is really really hard to handle :cry
we are all just ... i have no words. i had to restrain ourselves multiple times today to not do something we'd regret later. i know these same traits will make him my sweet, loving, caring, do-anything-for-you, dependable son one day, and i will rely on him, but right now it's so hard to be around him.

anyone has an idea for script for a nearly 3 yr old that looks at you with murder in his eyes and says awful things in a tone of voice that you would probably punch an adult for :bag

[saturnfire16]

oh guys... :(
3s hit here a little early. ds is really really hard to handle :cry
we are all just ... i have no words. i had to restrain ourselves multiple times today to not do something we'd regret later. i know these same traits will make him my sweet, loving, caring, do-anything-for-you, dependable son one day, and i will rely on him, but right now it's so hard to be around him.

anyone has an idea for script for a nearly 3 yr old that looks at you with murder in his eyes and says awful things in a tone of voice that you would probably punch an adult for :bag

:hug2 My newly 4 year old is doing that too. I'm doing good with the scripts for her, but I often have to restrain myself before I lash out. I could use some help with self-talk for me too.

[BlessedBlue]

oh guys... :(
3s hit here a little early. ds is really really hard to handle :cry
we are all just ... i have no words. i had to restrain ourselves multiple times today to not do something we'd regret later. i know these same traits will make him my sweet, loving, caring, do-anything-for-you, dependable son one day, and i will rely on him, but right now it's so hard to be around him.

anyone has an idea for script for a nearly 3 yr old that looks at you with murder in his eyes and says awful things in a tone of voice that you would probably punch an adult for :bag

"Try again."
If necessary, say it the way you wish to hear it so he can copy you. :hug My nearly 6yo gets a TON of these (Allison says 6 is 3x2 :crazy2)

[Maggirayne]

I'm really working at scripting got E.

I have a hard time when I get stuck.
I thought E had nursed to sleep laid her down and she popped up and would not wait in her bed for him to come snuggle w/her. I was tired of nursing her and just done. She ran out and when back with him. I was so needlessly angry.

[happy]

This thread has been so helpful!!! But, does anyone have any books they reccomend reading about this? Thanks.

[Herbwifemama]

I'm still hoping for some scripts. I'm not sure what i should be *saying* to myself right now...

[allisonintx]

How about you throw us an example of a situation where you wish you had a script and we can work one out! This is a great exercise!

[happy]

O.k. this isn't as emotianlly charged as some I encounter, but it is one that is bugging me. My dd 5.5 yrs old will not talk about how she is feeling. She can throw these huge fits and I need to take her to her room and she screams and thrashes around on her bed. I do o.k. dealing with the fit, but afterward when I am trying to ask her what she was feeling or how she thinks she could handle it better she just sits there and shrugs. I get so frustrated I almost have to walk away becuase how can I help her if she doesn't talk to me!!! I am sure I am not handling this right in some way, but what can I self talk to myself to get me back on track. Thanks.

[MomtoJGJ]

O.k. this isn't as emotianlly charged as some I encounter, but it is one that is bugging me. My dd 5.5 yrs old will not talk about how she is feeling. She can throw these huge fits and I need to take her to her room and she screams and thrashes around on her bed. I do o.k. dealing with the fit, but afterward when I am trying to ask her what she was feeling or how she thinks she could handle it better she just sits there and shrugs. I get so frustrated I almost have to walk away becuase how can I help her if she doesn't talk to me!!! I am sure I am not handling this right in some way, but what can I self talk to myself to get me back on track. Thanks.

yes please! DD1 (almost 7) will get up at night and we'll ask her why she's up or what she needs and she says I don't know... Or she'll just start crying and say I don't know... we've never shamed her for talking to us and we've always tried to help, so it's SO SO SO frustrating that she's already started the I don't know.... "how can I help her if she doesn't talk to me!!!" is exactly how I feel in these moments, and I tell her this, but it doesn't help ME!

[Herbwifemama]

Ok, I'm thinking...

[Codi]

Ok, I'm thinking...

Me too. But it is hard when I need to re-parent myself/use scripts with myself in almost every instance....

[Herbwifemama]

Me too. But it is hard when I need to re-parent myself/use scripts with myself in almost every instance....

True that. I'm trying to think of specific things- what I really want to do is deprogram my punitive thinking and reprogram is with grace based thinking- but apparently, it's so entrenched in me, I didn't even realize I was doing it. So I'm trying to think of a time when it comes out, so I can work on changing my thoughts.

Today, dd hit the cat. I was angry, and I told her we never hit. Which is the goal, but sometimes *I* hit. :( So, how does that work? I asked her why, which I know is pointless when you're dealing with a 4yo. But then the cat randomly attacks her, and it's a downward spiral. It scares me, because I'm afraid she'll hit the baby. And then the baby will hit back when it can, and another downward spiral. If I try to make her sit with me, she just struggles the whole time, and gets more upset, even if she wasn't out of control in the first place. I think her problem is impulse control. Is this even on topic? :doh

[happy]

This isn't exactly about the self talk, but I did want to say that impulse control is definitely normal for a 4 yr old in my experience. I am dealing with that with my ds at the moment.

[Herbwifemama]

Yeah, I know it's normal, but it's still not ok to hit the cat, you know? Trying to figure out how to address that without getting rid of the cat. I can't watch them every second. The cat also needs training, but the violence against her makes her more aggressive than she already would be. :-/

[mamahammer]

Reading this at a perfect time.

Yesterday - the kids and I spent hours cleaning the minivan. We cleaned the carpets, the seats, the upholstered ceiling that had coke stains splattered and pen marks all over it, cleaned all of the plastic/trim, washed the outside, etc. *Hours* of time, tons of sweat, etc.

Not an hour later, we get in the car to meet a friend for dinner. I have said more than a couple of times in that hour that we are simply not taking drinks in the car unless they are in sippy-type cups, and we will not be taking food in the car except for long trips. No problem. We bring our Camelbak canteens, get buckled in, and get on the road. We're all very calm, very happy, good conversation. Until we make a sharp turn, I hear something hit the floor and I *feel* them suck in their breathe like they had seen a bear. I quickly pull over, turn around and see that one of them had, without my knowing, brought in a 20oz bottle of tea they had gotten from the neighbor friend. No top, fell out of the cupholder and his spilled *all over* our newly cleaned, not even yet dry, floor carpet.

I'm livid. I get out, slam my door, open their door really quickly, harshly. Yell something to the effect of, "Are you kidding me? Who brought this in the car? What did I just say about drinks in the car? Really??!!" Go to the back of the van, open the trunk to see if I had somehow, in the car cleaning, left a towel in the back. No such luck, I yell through the van, "I am SOOOO ANGRY!!" and slam the trunk really hard. Go around to the passenger side, find a cloth diaper we had used to clean, slam that door, go back around to the kids door and furiously wipe up the tea, loudly proclaiming that I am so angry and that I'm so tired of cleaning up this car because they mess it up. Slam the door and drive to the restaurant in silence. The kids are completely silent because I've scared the poo out of them.

We park and I sit in the car with my head on the steering wheel, crying. My son (6) comes up and puts his arms around me and says, "It's okay. We know you love us and don't want to yell at us. It's okay, Mom." A few more deep breaths and I go around, open their door, unbuckle the girls and the three of them really tightly, one by one, as they get out. I whisper to each of them that it wasn't - isn't - ever okay for anyone to yell at them like that. Especially Mommy. I love you, I was frustrated but I still love you and I'm sorry.

They, because they are amazing, wonderful, awesome, children, each hug me and kiss me back, tell me it's okay and that they love me, too, and I can try again some other time. :heart :cry

What I'm getting out of this is that in that moment, when I have pulled over (which, btw should be an obvious sign of looming trouble for me), I should have just gotten out of the car, even if I do slam the door in doing so, and stayed out of the car while I talk myself through it.

I'm angry! SOO angry!
I'm frustrated because I spent so long cleaning this car!
I'm frustrated and feeling completely inept and unappreciated because they didn't listen to me about the drinks in the car.
I'm confused because they didn't need to bring another drink! I brought them cups! And drinks! And would have gladly put their tea in a cup!
And I'm stressed because I cleaned the car because I knew that Matt was going to be driving the van home from dinner while I go to a meeting. And Matt *hates* dirty cars. And I'd rather avoid that sighing and the "What's so hard about keeping the stuff and the mess and the food out of the car?" by having a clean car for him to drive. And now I have no choice but to have tea carpet when he gets in.

And then I would have had a better chance at just going about the business of cleaning without berating and yelling. And would have more likely had the self-control to explain to the kids that I am frustrated that our hard-earned clean car wasn't clean anymore because of the tea. And remind them, again, that we are only using our sippies in the car.

We would have still had tea on the floor that I cleaned up, we would have still gotten to the restaurant at the same time, but I wouldn't have scared my children. And I would have worked through my emotions instead of just vomiting them on my children.

[Maggirayne]

Aww, (((Jaqueline))). But you ae doing such an awesome job I am wowed by your kids sweet, forgiving and graceful response. I can tell that you've modeled apologizing well. ;) :hug

A huge part of the self-parenting is learning to STOP before responding. I get stuck and have.to.do._____.this.way.now!

I was going to post the other night. Oh,I did, but this is kinda similar for me.

E does *normal 2.5 yo behaviour*/makes a mess/doesn't listen/runs away. I feel physically stuck in in the chair with a nursing/napping baby. I am terrible at GOMB parenting and feel guilty. Add more bad feelings.

My normal response is to yell and grab her. I am better than I was two weeks ago at not hitting.

I thought E had nursed to sleep and had laid her down, and she popped up and would.not.wait in her bed for him to come snuggle w/her. I was tired of nursing her and just done. She ran out and when back with him.

My expectation for her to wait was 1) unrealistic and 2) unnecessary. But how to tell myself that when I'm gritting out, "Just lay down NOW!" and a little voice is saying "You're just escalating." and the loud voice is screaming "shudupIknowitIcan'tstopjustleavemealoneiwannaquitt hiswholemomthing" :bag

[Maggirayne]

Weelllll, this morning started off rough. I did a re-start, which helped. we all crawled back inn bed and then got up to go potty, which was the struggle.

[curlymopmom]

:heart Thank you for this thread. I am just such a mix of emotions right now. This is helping so much already and we've only been awake for 3 hours.

[allisonintx]

I notice that there have been quite a few threads where the moms are frustrated and asking the children Why they have done something.

Why doesn't matter. Most of the time adults can't tell you why they do one thing or another, and expecting a 5-7yo to tell you why only sets you both up for frustration. :hug

State what you see. "You're awake and upset. Come here." big hugs and a snuggle, "You're really sleepy, and its time for being in bed" get up and guide child back to bed. Most of the time, even though the child appears awake, they are not. They're doing a kind of sleepwalking. I have a child who does this every.single.night at 12:05.

[Herbwifemama]

I am guilty of the "why", and I know it's wrong, and I can't stop! Augh! I'm big on why in general. If someone commits a crime, I want to know what they were thinking. If the car is broken, I want to know why. If dd does something that doesn't make sense to me, I want to know where she's coming from. Curse of being really self aware is I can almost always tell you why I did something, or at least I can tell you I was being completely irrational. :shifty

[hopeforchange]

HWM, i'm the same way. :yes when dd hurts one of the boys, i almost always say, "WHY?" before i even think and then i go :doh and try to move on, lol.

[MomtoJGJ]

in light of this thread I explained some of my questions to DD1 today :) I explained that when I ask why she did something or what she was thinking that I wasn't trying to be ugly or make her less than what she is, that I'm truly wanting to know so I can know how to work with her on it not happening again. She seemed to really understand and we had a lot less "I don't know" today. :)

[saturnfire16]

I was thinking about self talk today, and recognized some tapes in my head. First this morning I was getting dressed and I couldn't find my bra. So, I asked dh if he had seen where I took it off (because sometimes I take it off while on the computer or watching tv to get comfy before I actually go change into pjs). Then I caught myself saying, "ya know, if you just took it off and put it away in the same place everyday it wouldn't be an issue. Why is that so difficult?! Are you really that disorganized and lazy that you can't even keep track of your bra?!"

I stopped myself and backtracked. It's not that big of a deal, you aren't in a hurry to go anywhere, it's just a bra, not a reflection of your entire life. You'll find it, we all lose things.

But I wasn't able to get much deeper than that. I didn't know what else to tell myself.

I also realized today that I think I have called myself and my husband "lazy" every day for the last 4 or 5 days. The whole family has been sick all week and we are just now recovering.

What I feel and what I've been telling myself- This whole week was wasted, dd watched a ton of tv because I was on the computer and not doing anything with her, we all sat around being bums. We're totally lazy and useless. I can't believe we didn't accomplish anything all week. There's only so much time in our lives and now this whole week is wasted. I'm not being a good mom, a good wife, and my husband is being a lazy bum, but hey what's new there. He's like this even if we aren't sick.

REALITY- We were sick! All of us! We rested for 4 days. I didn't do a lot physically, but I've been doing Bible studies like crazy and going back and forth with HUGE emails to an LDS friend. I've learned a ton in the last few days. I got the basics done that I needed to do for work. Did several loads of laundry, cleaned the living room spotless, right down to scrubbing the wall. My kitchen is a disaster, but the rest of the house is ok. We had a visit from our boss (we manage an apartment complex) and we got 100% on our evaluation. I went to CR. We dealt with a resident who's having major issues and dh spent a bunch of time over there repairing things and supervising the vendors. I did a craft with the girls, they took a bunch of baths, dd played with other kids in the nursery while I was at CR, she's done a lot of pretend play.

But even as I type that out, there is a part of me that says "quit justifying being lazy! You weren't THAT sick, it's not like you were on your death bed. You could have done more. The only thing worse than being lazy is trying to justify it and make excuses." :blush

[allisonintx]

My mom went through a jag of saying "Nothing makes me as crazy as lazy" and I finally snapped at her "Nothing makes me as smudgment as judgment." :-/ :duck :bag

I know it didn't make any sense, but she considers anyone who ever sits down for more than three minutes in a row to be "lazy" She thinks that when I knit or do anything for myself it's "lazy" or, as you were talking about, resting while sick is "lazy" even though rest is the most restorative thing you can do for your body.

[DancingWithElves]

:sigh the lazy tape is a bad one. my mother was like that. :(
so what happens, is when you do try to rest, you become anxious. b/c you are conditioned to expect a poo storm to start the minute you try to rest. so, then, people get a) really crabby and anxious themselves, and finally give up resting b) forgo resting altogether, while giving a hard time to those who do.

i'm still working on this one.

[WildOlive]

Wow, I am just now finding this thread, and for someone who suffers from bouts of yelling, stomping, kicking walls, shaming, etc, it is a tremendous blessing. :heart
Thank you. :yes

[Blue-EyedLady]

:sigh the lazy tape is a bad one. my mother was like that. :(
so what happens, is when you do try to rest, you become anxious. b/c you are conditioned to expect a poo storm to start the minute you try to rest. so, then, people get a) really crabby and anxious themselves, and finally give up resting b) forgo resting altogether, while giving a hard time to those who do.

i'm still working on this one.

Oh, I struggle with this one BIG TIME! Especially when it comes to allowing those around me to rest. I know it's crazy, but I feel like I must be productive 100% of the time - or at least until all my work is done. Since all of the work is never done, I feel like I can't rest. :doh I tend to vacillate between working myself to death and being overwhelmed, depressed, and trying to hide from my responsibilities.

I can't seem to find the place where I can say, "that's good enough" and leave the rest undone. I already see this tendency in my 2 yo, and I want to find balance so that I can teach DS to find balance. But HOW do I stop the "lazy" tape from playing? What do I say to myself in its place without going too far in the other direction and actually excusing genuinely lazy behavior? (Does that make sense? It did in my head... :shifty)

[saturnfire16]

Oh, I struggle with this one BIG TIME! Especially when it comes to allowing those around me to rest. I know it's crazy, but I feel like I must be productive 100% of the time - or at least until all my work is done. Since all of the work is never done, I feel like I can't rest. :doh I tend to vacillate between working myself to death and being overwhelmed, depressed, and trying to hide from my responsibilities.

I can't seem to find the place where I can say, "that's good enough" and leave the rest undone. I already see this tendency in my 2 yo, and I want to find balance so that I can teach DS to find balance. But HOW do I stop the "lazy" tape from playing? What do I say to myself in its place without going too far in the other direction and actually excusing genuinely lazy behavior? (Does that make sense? It did in my head... :shifty)

Yep, I could have written that exact post. :hug2 I'm going to start a spin off on what lazy actually means and maybe some mamas who don't struggle with this like we do can chime in and help us find some balance.

[curlymopmom]

Yep, I could have written that exact post. :hug2 I'm going to start a spin off on what lazy actually means and maybe some mamas who don't struggle with this like we do can chime in and help us find some balance.

Me too! Off to look for your spin off...

---------- Post added at 11:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ----------

I forgot to say that today was so.much.better than I've had in a looong time! I caught myself in the midst of a lot of negative self-talk and turned it around quite often. My biggest help today was 'It's not personal.' For some reason that resonates for me. And 'I am not afraid of your big feelings.' (I can't remember which mama said that!!! :doh) So thank you for this thread! :heart

[allisonintx]

Crystal talks often about us being bigger than our children's big feelings, and how that makes them feel safe to have those big feelings. :yes

[BlessedBlue]

I think one of my struggles is getting locked in with the situation. One of the few Dobson (?) tapes playing in my head is that little chidren have short memories and you must put the negative consequence as close to the misbehavior as possible - so they will learn. I'm so busy trying to follow that advice that I'm not modeling more positive behavior or problem solving skills. :doh

Not to mention that my kids have great recall skills, and that GOYB is putting action right away - but does not mean I must be emotionally involved. If I think about it, if their memory is so poor that they won't make the right associations about their behavior/consequences, chances are that the next time the impulse strikes, they won't remember the last cause/effect. Totally a waste of time. :sigh

I have thoughts about the lazy thing too. Off to find the spin.

[Books with tea]

:cupI'm in. This sounds like a something I could use as well. Thanks!

~Tea~

[mokamoto]

Subbing. Thanks for this thread! :)

[abh5e8]

awesome thread mamas...i am learning so much!!

[Marsha]

OK, I do not know if this was right or good, it felt bad.

Ainslee was having one of her nights.,Crying about everything, tired, not tired, want to watch the show,wanted a bath, baby talk ad nauseum including just plain babble (she has to be pretty bad to resort to babble), and freaking out if Riley came over or if Riley touched her or if I moved her on my lap...

She's been like this for 4 evenings straight now, and it gets old. And I was mad because having to deal with her was eating up a lot of time, and I knew when I took her to bed, dh was gonna take Ri to bed and then I wasn't going to get to spend time with Ri because Ainslee had hurt her feelings earlier by yelling at her to get away and then when I told Ri she could stay sitting beside me, Ainslee screamed loud enough to make Riley WANT to move away....

Ok? It's exhausting, and my self talk was all "now she's ruining my evening and I won't get to spend time with Ri and blah, blah" and meantime she's freaking out because she keeps saying I look mad or I sound mad and she won't calm down until I'm not mad, etc.

So I said: yes, I'm tired and i'm cranky, and my ears hurt from your screaming, and I"m upset because you screamed at Riley and drove her away and I don't get to spend time with her this evening, and I love you, but I 'm not getting to enjoy the time I spend with you.

I am sure that was totally gult tripping and shaming, but it was better than having the thougths show on my tightly pinched lips and terse manner, I guess.

[Kindle Mama]

subbing I SO need this :yes

[mokamoto]

(It's hard to put this after the quote on my phone. Sorry about how it looks!)
I've been in this situation and what worked for me was taking DS to the tub with diaper on, standing him there, removing all his clothes quickly and washing his body with the shower head. He was so shocked he didn't resist and he was clean and happy quickly. This worked for me bc I was focused on the situation and calmed down due to problem solving on the brain. I can't see red and problem solve at the same time! ;-). HTH!

:hug

Ok, walk me through this one: DS has a poopy diaper. He's having an food allergy reaction, so the diaper is more like diarrhea - poop everywhere that doesn't wipe up easily. DS is being uncooperative (because he's 2 yo or is having an allergic reaction, hard to tell), and is trying to get his hands down in the business while arching his back and making it impossible to clean him up.

My current MO = try to pin down all 4 limbs simultaneously in a most ungentle way while wiping up the mess while yelling at him to relax and hold still. Not working so well for any of us... :blush

I can't walk away - there are multiple safety issues at play here (the poop could easily end up in his mouth, he could end up flipping off the changing table and hurting himself) not to mention the potential for HUGE mess. The only self-talk I can think of in the moment is "He's only a kid. He just wants to play. His tummy doesn't feel good, that's why he's acting this way." Lovely words, but I'm still seeing red...

[Vicki_T]

:cup

This is such a helpful thread to me right now.

[simplegirl]

:heart Another blessed mama by finding this thread! My anger issues are so bad and ingrained from the way I was parented that I went beyond the self-talk only and am in therapy, which has done me wonders BECAUSE my therapist has also approached the self-talk issues with me :) She also explained to me that it's completely useless to ask them "why?" at this age because they.just.don't.get.that. I loved the idea in a pp about explaining that mommy's just trying to help and figure out what's wrong....I think I will try that. I find myself asking "why?" without even thinking.

And I just wanted to interject that I have some Rescue Remedy, and when I'm seeing red or feeling my blood boil...just walking to the closet and taking the time to take 3 drops of RR is usually enough time for me to calm down and try the self-talk. :)

[DancingWithElves]

ds threw a fit the size of texas today, in the street for all to see, while making us late for an appointment, and i as already worked up to start with.
and...
i have nothing to apologize for :grin it's one of the few times i did nothing i regret. i totally held it together. :tu

[allisonintx]

good job!

[Mum2Es]

Well done Irene!

I had one of those moments this morning when I held it together thanks to this thread. I can't even remember what EK did to annoy me but I did the whole self-talk thing "I feel angry because...EK didn't do that to make me mad, she just wants..." and didn't react inappropriately to her at all. :)

[Maggirayne]

Today must be a great day! E did something to bug me, oh, she banged on the wall after I'd just told her to whisper to not wake A, and my brain said, "Hey, she didn't know banging on the wall would *also* wake baby."

[curlymopmom]

:woohoo Maggirayne!

I've been having a lot of success too. It just feels so amazing to feel like I'm doing more 'right' than 'wrong'. :heart:heart:heart this thread!!!

[HindsFeet]

I'm still working on the self-talk. But I'm doing better at recognizing that I need to walk away before things escalate too far, so that's a step in the right direction.

[COTK]

So I said: yes, I'm tired and i'm cranky, and my ears hurt from your screaming, and I"m upset because you screamed at Riley and drove her away and I don't get to spend time with her this evening, and I love you, but I 'm not getting to enjoy the time I spend with you.

I am sure that was totally gult tripping and shaming, but it was better than having the thougths show on my tightly pinched lips and terse manner, I guess.

Was that guilt tripping and shaming? :think It didn't seem like it to me...? :shrug3 If that was guilt tripping, then I don't get the "reflecting feelings" thing at all... :scratch

[Marsha]

LEt's just say that her reaction wasn't pretty. I know I shouldn't take people's reactions as the barometer of what I should say...but let's just say that I generally tend to do that. and then agonize endlessly if they react badly. Dd tends to have anxiety/ragey stuff, so no matter what I say, the end result is the same. *I* felt better about what I said than placating or berating her.

[Maggirayne]

OK, I do not know if this was right or good, it felt bad.

Ainslee was having one of her nights.,Crying about everything, tired, not tired, want to watch the show,wanted a bath, baby talk ad nauseum including just plain babble (she has to be pretty bad to resort to babble), and freaking out if Riley came over or if Riley touched her or if I moved her on my lap...

She's been like this for 4 evenings straight now, and it gets old. And I was mad because having to deal with her was eating up a lot of time, and I knew when I took her to bed, dh was gonna take Ri to bed and then I wasn't going to get to spend time with Ri because Ainslee had hurt her feelings earlier by yelling at her to get away and then when I told Ri she could stay sitting beside me, Ainslee screamed loud enough to make Riley WANT to move away....

Ok? It's exhausting, and my self talk was all "now she's ruining my evening and I won't get to spend time with Ri and blah, blah" and meantime she's freaking out because she keeps saying I look mad or I sound mad and she won't calm down until I'm not mad, etc.

So I said: yes, I'm tired and i'm cranky, and my ears hurt from your screaming, and I"m upset because you screamed at Riley and drove her away and I don't get to spend time with her this evening, and I love you, but I 'm not getting to enjoy the time I spend with you.

I am sure that was totally gult tripping and shaming, but it was better than having the thougths show on my tightly pinched lips and terse manner, I guess.

LEt's just say that her reaction wasn't pretty. I know I shouldn't take people's reactions as the barometer of what I should say...but let's just say that I generally tend to do that. and then agonize endlessly if they react badly. Dd tends to have anxiety/ragey stuff, so no matter what I say, the end result is the same. *I* felt better about what I said than placating or berating her.
Well, it sounds like she was unhappy over everything. And regardless of what you said did, her reaction wouldn't be pretty. How old is she? 7?

So you were expressing how you felt. What you said was all your feelings, not blaming her, but expressing how you felt because of her actions.

[StrangeTraveller]

How does this all work when you can't get away? When I'm stuck in bed nursing one and using one arm to keep coralling the other back in when he tries to squirm off? :shifty :blush It doesn't happen often..only when he's reacting to dairy. He ate some bannan/pumpkin/fruit bread thingy last night..it's been forEVer since we've deal with this, but...talk about seeing red. I don't even want to go into my reaction because...well, it stings. It was just an awful afternoon.

How do you do it? Should I have just let him go downstairs til the other one went to sleep?

Wish I could just erase today and start over.

[BlessedBlue]

When I realize the behavior is allergy-related (sometimes it takes me a while :bag) I tell myself over and over, "DD is not choosing to be this way. Her body and brain hurt, and this is her way of telling me."

[StrangeTraveller]

I try to do that..it helped some, but it was waay into the game when I figured it out.. :sigh trying again, I suppose. I can't undo it beyond ht eapologies and hugs and starting over :(

[Blue-EyedLady]

We tell our kids, "try again" when they don't react properly. No rules against telling yourself the same thing as many times as necessary. :shrug In fact, modeling that process for them is probably GOOD for our DC.

[HindsFeet]

I actually managed some self-talk tonight. We had a busy day, and though the kids had gotten dinner, I hadn't gotten to eat yet. I was nursing the baby, and dd1 was in my bed theoretically trying to go to sleep, but in actuality flopping around and talking to herself. Ds3 is in his room whining that he wants a kleenex, and ds2 is in the bathtub yelling "I'm DONE!!" (wanting me to come get him a towel). I could feel myself getting riled up, but I stopped and thought to myself: "You are tired and hungry. You are frustrated that so many little people seem to need you simultaneously, and that your dh isn't around to help out. It is okay for them to wait, and soon they will all be taken care of and you can have some time to yourself." I took a few deep breaths, and actually felt much better. :rockon

[curlymopmom]

Way to go Laura! :rockon

[allisonintx]

the time between dinner and bedtime is killer. My mom (single parent of two) called it the suicide hour! :eek

I think that if you can manage that talk during *that* hour, it's nothing short of impressive.

[DancingWithElves]

:heart
bumping this for somebody

[Maggirayne]

Okay, so help me this morning, DH has had an awful time sleeping this week, not falling asleep til late, like 1 am, and then not being able to fall back asleep when E wakes at 4-5 am. So he's sleeping in, I got up at 7:45 am with both girls, and I hate not sleeping in and am grouchy that they.just.don't.sleep. :-/

I know he needs his sleep but I do this every morning all week. :( Oh, I need to take my vitamins and eat breakfast somehow.

[Gentle Journey]

Wantin to sub and have 9 more pages to read though :popcorn

[MomtoJGJ]

Okay, so help me this morning, DH has had an awful time sleeping this week, not falling asleep til late, like 1 am, and then not being able to fall back asleep when E wakes at 4-5 am. So he's sleeping in, I got up at 7:45 am with both girls, and I hate not sleeping in and am grouchy that they.just.don't.sleep. :-/

I know he needs his sleep but I do this every morning all week. :( Oh, I need to take my vitamins and eat breakfast somehow.

You could always tell yourself that you could have my kids who wake at 6 every day no matter what.... to sleep until 6:30 would be a dream morning! :D

[Maggirayne]

:deerintheheadlights and :puke

True. But I was needing help talking me out being grouchy and blaming girls for not sleeping later. I wasn't nice when I took them potty.

But Dh made coffee and blueberry muffins when he got up. :thumbsup

[MomtoJGJ]

ooh.. muffins... good idea!

and funny of all funnies... the big girls were actually quiet enough to let me and the baby sleep until 6:30 this morning... :)

[Marsha]

Well, you don't really try to talk yourself OUT of anything, that will make you more frustrated IME.

"I am really sleepy and I"m cranky that I don't get to sleep in, and it makes me mad that dh does, and I hate having to get up and fix the girls breakfast when I'm cranky and sleepy and then I have to take them potty and I'm still tired..........

I don't know, right there, just stops me from being so irritable. Just saying it keeps me from feeling so self righteous about taking my sleepy cranky self out on my kids who need to go potty.

[jewelmcjem]

For me, I think saying it out loud makes me realize how 2-yo I'm being, and get myself into a more reasonable frame of mind. Otherwise I just think it in my head and get more and more 2 in my reactions, lol.

[allisonintx]

Exactly, Jema. When I realize the age in myself that I'm parenting I'm often :o

[Marsha]

Yeah, I think I mentioned before that mine is usually two...and is tired and hungry...that helps a lot, honestly.

[Maggirayne]

:giggle :O

[Aisling]

"It's OK to not be perfect. It's OK to not be perfect. It's really OK...."

"They won't be this age forever."

"Model what you want, Ash. And later, I will give you a nice hot bath." :shifty

[Maggirayne]

"Model what you want, Ash. And later, I will give you a nice hot bath." :shifty
:haha

[Tasmanian Saint]

I only just discovered this thread and it has been so useful! Thank you ladies!

Slightly different idea, but I sometimes remember to turn "What punishment can I use show him that this behaviour really is unacceptable" into "How can I help him to do better?"

And after I've failed yet again and I find myself caught in a useless cycle of self-berating, I remind myself, "If I were a perfect Mummy, I'd have to manufacture bad interactions so he wouldn't grow up with unrealistic expectations of his future relationships" :D

[MomtoJGJ]

And after I've failed yet again and I find myself caught in a useless cycle of self-berating, I remind myself, "If I were a perfect Mummy, I'd have to manufacture bad interactions so he wouldn't grow up with unrealistic expectations of his future relationships" :D

That is great!! :) unfortunately I have girls, but at least I'm teaching them that it's ok to mess up, right?

[fairolivia]

"Model what you want, Ash. And later, I will give you a nice hot bath." :shifty[/QUOTE]

Love it! Need it! :yes
Now if I could just remember these! My friend, IRL and here, always has wonderful quotes... practical and inspirational... stuck up on her walls. She usually has them in her kitchen. They change as the need arises. I'm going to work on sticking up a few of these this weekend.

[Tasmanian Saint]

great idea, FairOlivia, I think I'll do something similar (after the wedding and birthday party... maybe next weekend :))

That is great!! :) unfortunately I have girls, but at least I'm teaching them that it's ok to mess up, right?
I wasn't actually meaning specifically romantic relationships, I meant friendships, sibling relationships, etc. But, yeah, teaching it's ok to mess up and how to fix it. :) :heart

[DancingWithElves]

:sh5

if i'm perfect, whatever will they talk to their spouses about?? :shifty :lol


i've got one from the past two days: "you really really want to (spank, yell, be mean) right now, and i understand, you are very angry, but think about how nice it will be to hold him tonight and recount what we did today and not feel guilty and not need to apologize over and over" :heart stops me every time

[MomtoJGJ]

:sh5

i've got one from the past two days: "you really really want to (spank, yell, be mean) right now, and i understand, you are very angry, but think about how nice it will be to hold him tonight and recount what we did today and not feel guilty and not need to apologize over and over" :heart stops me every time


I really really needed to hear that tonight!!! :)

[Pearl In Oyster]

:cup I've gotten so much out of this thread!

I don't know if it's ok to post a link, but this article on MSN has some similar things to say:

http://healthyliving.msn.com/default.aspx?section=archive&contentType=article&contentId=52

[Maggirayne]

if i'm perfect, whatever will they talk to their spouses about?? :shifty :lol

i've got one from the past two days: "you really really want to (spank, yell, be mean) right now, and i understand, you are very angry, but think about how nice it will be to hold him tonight and recount what we did today and not feel guilty and not need to apologize over and over" :heart stops me every time
Lol!

Oh man, I needed that today. :-/

Tomorrow is a new day.

[Tasmanian Saint]

So I've finally finished writing down all these lovely ideas in my journal...

2 questions:

Anyone else think this should be a sticky?

and

Can anyone point me to the laziness spinoff?

Thanks :)

[jandjmommy]

Thanks for this. I have a 6 yr old & 3 yr old. With kids this age would you talk yourself through out loud or just in your head? Also, has anyone gotten to a point that you gain enough control over your reactions to not need to walk away? For now walking away would be better than staying and spewing but not sure I want to model retreat as response to stress.

[Maggirayne]

I talk outloud, oherwise I can't hear myself. :shifty

It's better to remove yourself than do something you regret. I see it as an aspect of self-discipline. :shrug3

[allisonintx]

I've been re-parenting myself for a long time, and still find walking away to cool off is a valuable tool.

[DancingWithElves]

i think retreat is a healthy response to stress, also modeled by Jesus himself, as long as it is not the *only* one you use. :)

i do out loud and to myself both...

sometimes i do third person... esp. for processing. yesterday instead of telling dh that he needed a nap i said this: "remember how yesterday i was really crabby when i was tired? yeah, mama didn't feel good all, mama gets so grouchy when she's tired, doesn't she? and remember mama went and took a nap while you played with papa? and then she was much nicer, right?" (he nodded enthusiastically :) )

[Maggirayne]

For your DH or DS? :giggle

I'm going to spin asking for appropriate responses to anger/stress. I have a hard time; I respond physically and hit my leg/chair arm/got to other room and pound on the bed, and E is starting to copy me. :cry :blush

[jewelmcjem]

For your DH or DS? :giggle

I'm going to spin asking for appropriate responses to anger/stress. I have a hard time; I respond physically and hit my leg/chair arm/got to other room and pound on the bed, and E is starting to copy me. :cry :blush
I slam doors, and so do ALL 4 of my children, including the 2yo. Sigh.

[DancingWithElves]

:doh :haha
that was sposed to be DS. although, i've told dh to take a nap before too ;)

i'll see if i can find that spin :hugheart

[mamahammer]

Yesterday was less than spectacular, including a moment when my 4yo spilled water and wet playdough all over my newly mopped floor while doing an "experiment" and I threw a broom to the floor so hard it shattered. And she ran away crying. :cry In my head, I knew that I was too upset and too emotional and about to do something I would greatly regret - but in that moment, I couldn't find my way out :cry

I went to her and to the 6yo who was also there and held them both and cried. Apologized for the 1000th time for not being the mother I should be.

I'm just not sure what it is about those moments. They're not all the time - 99% of the time, spilled water and wet playdough are just normal events that require towels and cleaning :shrug But yesterday? Not so much. I was working so hard to get the house clean because my husband was working 18 hours that day and I knew it would make his coming home so much more peaceful if he came home to a clean house. But that kind of all-out cleaning doesn't come naturally to me. And at 2, 4 and 6, sometimes the kids create more work even as they're trying to help.

I know that my reaction yesterday was just as bad as if I had hit one of them. It does that kind of damage, I'm sure. And I am not even sure how to self-parent my way out of it. What do you do when your mind is saying, "Stop!" but your body keeps going into anger?

[marigold]

What do you do when your mind is saying, "Stop!" but your body keeps going into anger?[/QUOTE]

Oh do I second that. I feel like the more I try not to be punitive the more I become the angry yelling mom that I despise because I have not succeeded in learning to cope with myself. If I can't cope with myself how can I cope with my kids?

[Herbwifemama]

When there is actually enough space between my mind and my actions, I try to move away from people- get alone however I can. Then I can remember my child's face- usually about to tear up out of fear or anger or frustration. And then my heart jumps back into play, and I can calm down. In the worst of situations, I don't get a handle on it until my body has reacted, but then I move away, and can calm down and go make amends. :bheart

[DancingWithElves]

hugs, mamas. this is such a good conversation... hard but good :( :hugheart

so, mamahammer: first, i wanted you to know, that professionally, when i want to ask a mother just one question, to see how she's doing, coping, etc. i ask: "If one of your kids spilled a large glass of milk on the floor right now, how would you feel and what would you do? " Some mamas just consider their answer, and their chin starts quivering, and they start crying, and that's pretty much my clue (been there myself, btw), and still more look down to hide their eyes, b/c they know they would not do anything they'd be proud of (been there a-plenty also). Situations like that just tell you a lot about how much margin you have, kwim? :hug

WE NEED MARGIN! b/c we are mothers and milk is gonna get spilled, and messes *just* cleaned are gonna get messed up again in a second, while it took all-stinkin-day to clean, and if we don't have margin we'll end up acting a way that we'll regret later. Everyone needs margin. I get it by not answering my phone (esp. when mother calls :shifty ) by eating, a lot and often (two nurslings) by doing only one thing out of three that i am convinced i just have to do :doh
i hope this makes sense.

i am a survivor of abuse and i know that i carry anger in my body like a bruise or a toxin or something :blue i know what it's like to be out of control. but hey, now for my 3 yr. old who screeches like a bat and has a crazy look, i have compassion for him, b/ c i know what it's like, i know exactly what it's like. and it's harder for dh to understand him...

basically there are two types of ppl: one type can get the anger out and rid of it by physical activity, it can by just running, but it also can be punching, slapping, whatever, while processing the anger, thinking angry thoughts basically. i have never met a survivor of abuse or a current/recovering addict who was this type :no
and another type, who may initially feel better while getting it "out' physically, but in the end only feels worse, and may become out of control, etc. I'm def. this type. :(

I have to have margin... b/c even while taking myself to my room i can be out of control. i can mutter profanities, or throw something on the way, or slam the door (latter being so unsafe... have i told you about the freak accident i witnessed? :shiver )

it really helps to become vulnerable at that time. this took a long time to learn, b/c i had to keep repeating to myself that i am safe now, where i am now it is safe to be vulnerable (i have not been for the first 17 yrs of my life) so what you'd see is my getting really :mad and then taking a deep breath, verbalizing the hurt that is under that and starting to cry.
Which is *really* helpful to ds b/c mad is scary, and sad he can understand: he messed up something i was working on, and now i'm sad, that makes perfect sense to him. Plus, sad he knows how to work with: bring mama something nice, give mama kisses, etc. ;) :heart

[MomtoJGJ]

i am a survivor of abuse and i know that i carry anger in my body like a bruise or a toxin or something :blue i know what it's like to be out of control. but hey, now for my 3 yr. old who screeches like a bat and has a crazy look, i have compassion for him, b/ c i know what it's like, i know exactly what it's like. and it's harder for dh to understand him...


and another type, who may initially feel better while getting it "out' physically, but in the end only feels worse, and may become out of control, etc. I'm def. this type. :(


This is where it's so hard for me... THIS is exactly me but I have no reason behind it... I have never been abused in any way... there is no reason for my anger, yet it's there.... sometimes out in full sight, sometimes just under the surface, and sometimes way back where I'm the only person who knows it's there.... but it rarely ever is just not there....

[Maggirayne]

This is where it's so hard for me... THIS is exactly me but I have no reason behind it... I have never been abused in any way... there is no reason for my anger, yet it's there.... sometimes out in full sight, sometimes just under the surface, and sometimes way back where I'm the only person who knows it's there.... but it rarely ever is just not there....
This is me too! I was raised punitively (Dobson) and have had a lot of anger at my mom. It's there and with the right triggers, just boils! And when the smoke clears, I'm going where did that come from?

I try to verbalize, am working on expressing my emotions, "I'm angry/frustrated because you did ____." I don't say "You make me angry," or if I do, once or twice, I changed it immediately. :phew

But saying I'm frustrated isn't enough. I don't know what I need to do/say so it helps more.

Hmm, I have posted already about the biggest cause of frustration, so I'll link to that (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=349914), and I would love ideas for scripting. :heart Thanks!

[allisonintx]

as someone who has struggled consistantly with Wrath, I will share that when I feel really angry, the best thing I can do is stomp my feet, HARD, and GROWEL. It is very grounding.

Now, you can only do this if you're willing to allow stomping from your children, because they will learn it. My IL's think it's horrible that my children stomp when they're mad, but, HELLO! They learned it from me.

It is my 'healthier alternative' to hitting someone.

[Maggirayne]

That would be great, but I live in the second floor apt. :giggle

I remember being frustrated because I would be so incredibly upset and there was no acceptable way to express my anger. I couldn't talk, that was backtalking, couldn't stomp, that was defiance, etc, etc. So I would glare, which doesn't look nearly as fierce as I thought :giggle and stare at my mom's forehead and avoid eye contact.

[mamahammer]

Thomas (6yo) said I could set his punching bag up in the living room. :shifty

I think I've realized that, for the most part, I feel most out-of-control when I'm trying hard to do things that don't come naturally to me and/or trying to do something for other people. Like, I totally expect and accept messes/interruptions/"help" from the kids when I'm cleaning the kitchen after lunch. But if I'm cleaning because my husband hates to come home to a messy house or my in-laws are coming over and will think I'm a horrible wife/mother because of my dirty house? The stress of that totally depletes my "margin," as Irene said. So, when the kids do something completely to be expected, I can't deal.

[saturnfire16]

basically there are two types of ppl: one type can get the anger out and rid of it by physical activity, it can by just running, but it also can be punching, slapping, whatever, while processing the anger, thinking angry thoughts basically. i have never met a survivor of abuse or a current/recovering addict who was this type :no
and another type, who may initially feel better while getting it "out' physically, but in the end only feels worse, and may become out of control, etc. I'm def. this type. :(

Irene, wow! Thank you! You just created an ah ha! moment for me.

it really helps to become vulnerable at that time. this took a long time to learn, b/c i had to keep repeating to myself that i am safe now, where i am now it is safe to be vulnerable (i have not been for the first 17 yrs of my life) so what you'd see is my getting really :mad and then taking a deep breath, verbalizing the hurt that is under that and starting to cry.
Which is *really* helpful to ds b/c mad is scary, and sad he can understand: he messed up something i was working on, and now i'm sad, that makes perfect sense to him. Plus, sad he knows how to work with: bring mama something nice, give mama kisses, etc. ;) :heart

This is the part I'm missing! I don't know HOW to be vulnerable. I don't cry. Well, recently with CR and a miscarriage I've broken through a little of that. But it's a whole different story when I'm in the heat of the moment and angry. I don't know how to turn that to vulnerability. It's hard for me to even look past the anger and recognize that it's coming from hurt or sadness, let alone express that.

[Marsha]

Ok, seriously just start saying it : i feel angry, I feel like no one cares and people walk all over me and you keep asking for stuff when I'm tired and dont' want to get it and you aren't asking me nicely and I feel disrespected and..................

I can't say it enough. Thie has been eye opening and life changing for ME.

It doesn't have to even make you cry. It makes me laugh most of the tme, or at least feel a shared bond with my children instead of against them.

[saturnfire16]

Saying that stuff just makes me angry though. I feel like a victim and then I feel weak and weakness is not acceptable, so I get mad at myself for being weak and even madder at whoever I imagine to be persecuting me.

[Marsha]

Oh, ok, when *I* say it and just keep going, it eventually (I am totally not kidding) comes out to "and I'm hungry and I'm tired"...and that always makes me laugh because it's so primal and fixable.

[raquel]

Subbing....this has given me sooo much to think/chew over and I want to come back for more. :)

[simplegirl]

I remember being frustrated because I would be so incredibly upset and there was no acceptable way to express my anger. I couldn't talk, that was backtalking, couldn't stomp, that was defiance, etc, etc. So I would glare, which doesn't look nearly as fierce as I thought :giggle and stare at my mom's forehead and avoid eye contact.

YES! This is how I felt too :hugheart

Does anyone else find it very sad that so many of us are dealing with this? :grouphug

[DancingWithElves]

Saying that stuff just makes me angry though. I feel like a victim and then I feel weak and weakness is not acceptable, so I get mad at myself for being weak and even madder at whoever I imagine to be persecuting me.

then keep talking in the moment :hug
keep on: "... and now that i said this, i feel like such a pathetic weakling and very angry. and i understand that this is not healthy, and i am safe in this place to be weak, people around me will love me when i am weak, God loves me in my weakness" .... i love the song that says: "all my weaknesses made perfect in his unending love" :heart :amen

and i didn't at all wanted to give you an impression that someone has to be my level of screwed-uppedness to experience these things :giggle :sigh

certainly, being raised by Dobson, and subtle emotional/spiritual abuse, all that is more than enough to create such response :hugheart

[Pearl In Oyster]

...I'm a horrible wife/mother because of my dirty house ...


When I find myself thinking in this all or nothing way I definitely get more on edge, and I find it helpful to say out loud something less condemning and more helpful. How would I speak to a friend who was saying those things about herself? Then I say those kind words to myself.

"I feel like a horrible wife/mother/person because of XYZ, but XYZ doesn't define me as a wife/mother/person. I'm God's loved child who makes mistakes." Or something like that. It sounds so corny but it really does help. That is, when I remember to do it!

[Tasmanian Saint]

We had a youth group meeting once where the leader asked us to write down our virtues and vices (I don't think that was the words he used, but you know what I mean). I think we all wrote down more vices than virtues. The leader pointed out that we have a tendency to expect near perfection of our virtues before we'll acknowledge them. That is, we won't call ourselves 'patient' unless we are almost NEVER impatient. I'm lazy unless I'm doing something useful every.single.waking.second; I'm not humble if I ever feel the least skerrick of pride; I'm not a gentle mum because I often yell at my kids... etc, etc

It can be helpful, I find, to remind myself of how much I do, how much patience I show, how I'm growing in gentleness etc. It helps me be patient with myself, which gives me a little more patience with others. :)

[passionatemom]

When I find myself thinking in this all or nothing way I definitely get more on edge, and I find it helpful to say out loud something less condemning and more helpful. How would I speak to a friend who was saying those things about herself? Then I say those kind words to myself.

"I feel like a horrible wife/mother/person because of XYZ, but XYZ doesn't define me as a wife/mother/person. I'm God's loved child who makes mistakes." Or something like that. It sounds so corny but it really does help. That is, when I remember to do it!

I think this kind of thing virtually every day! Thank you for the simple script.

It doesn't help that I live in a basement apartment at my MIL's house, and she keeps things spotless and fancy. I think much of what she does is fussy and unnecessary, but I still often measure myself by what I think she thinks. My mom kept a rather cluttered house, but I always knew that "normal" people didn't live that way. Hello, my mom is a real person, who valued relationships over a clean house! I want to be that person. (Not that MIL doesn't value relationships, she just goes about it a different way . . . )

And my husband is very tolerant and doesn't mention my housekeeping habits often. But I know that having grown up in a perfectionist cleaner's house he would prefer things to be tidy. I don't need him to complain about it, I can use my imagination to voice his expectations. Isn't that silly? I'm making it up.

I'm a perfectionist as well, but a different kind. I'm reading some of Dr. Kevin Lehman's stuff right now about parenting. He says that for a perfectionist child to be criticized often (I was) can lead to their just giving up trying.

So I have these high expectations, that I'm imagining others have of me, then I have the fact that I don't feel capable of living up to them, and sometimes I get so discouraged and overwhelmed that I can't do anything. Why bother, when it won't be good enough?

I also have recently realized I have fear of success, even at little things. If I have things planned so that I will be able to do an adequate job and succeed at it, my perfectionist voice comes in and says, "ooh, why don't you add this, or change that, to make it better!" and then it becomes more than I can reasonably achieve, and the task I should have succeeded at becomes a perceived failure. I did this the other night over cooking boxed mac'n'cheese and hot dogs for dinner! Had to change something in the middle of cooking, then it wasn't done on time, and poof, I felt terrible.

Oh, and re-reading this, I thought, this is just the kind of thing we're trying to avoid in our kids when we refrain from praising them saying things like "good girl, you did XYZ" because they will think they are only a good girl when they do XYZ, and therefore, a bad girl when they don't.

Wow, as usual, I had a lot to say :O.

PS. I love this thread!!!

[Blue-EyedLady]

:bump this as I need to re-read it a couple more times after an awful day today.

And I'm hoping someone else might need a reminder to do this too so I won't feel so alone. :shifty

[Vicki_T]

:bump this as I need to re-read it a couple more times after an awful day today.

And I'm hoping someone else might need a reminder to do this too so I won't feel so alone. :shifty

:yes I'm looking for self-talk ideas for when they make a mess, if anyone can help me there?

[Marsha]

:yes I'm looking for self-talk ideas for when they make a mess, if anyone can help me there?

I thought an example was in here but may be not. Something like:

I am so upset that they made a mess. I feel like no one cares about me, like I am left to do everything, they get to have fun while I"m stuck with the work, no one cares that I like a clean house, I feel ignored..........." eventually you'll say something that strikes a chord with you like with me "I'm hungry and tired" . :heart

[Vicki_T]

I thought an example was in here but may be not. Something like:

I am so upset that they made a mess. I feel like no one cares about me, like I am left to do everything, they get to have fun while I"m stuck with the work, no one cares that I like a clean house, I feel ignored..........." eventually you'll say something that strikes a chord with you like with me "I'm hungry and tired" . :heart

:ty4 I hadn't searched through this thread :blush I should.

[Maggirayne]

Ugh, I won't talk about how I feel right now. I'm so stressed trying to pack and I go to do one thing and have to do, sigh (A just knocked a moslty empty shelf off the bookcase) and DH just asked if there was anything besides stress in life. E keeps pulling stuff out of tubs that's packed including finding Christmas presents while I'm on the phone with the sellers, so now I can't recall who picks up the garbage, and I'll have to call back andi'll look dumb and waaaaah, will someone come pack and clean and cook supper for me? :bag :shifty

And I've yelled at E and smacked her when she dumped the bathroom garbage complete with poopy wipes out earlier today. And she took apart my already partly broken drying rack, I swear, she's obsessed with the stupid thing, and I know she's just three. I'm just tired!

I want to go hide in the bathtub, which never works because both of them insist on getting in with me and crawling on me and pushing each other and I end up madder instead of relaxed, and I'm getting mad just thinking about it. :doh

And, I don't have time to relax because I didn't get anything done. Umm, yeah. I need some good scripts. And a baby who quit pinching my nipples would be nice too.

[DancingWithElves]

:hugheart

i'm a mess today too, so i'll let someone else respond, but just hugs and sympathy :hug

[allisonintx]

It's also ok to look in the mirror and say "some days suck. His love is new every morning. Great is His faithfulness"

I took a tub bath *alone* most days even when that meant that the children sat and pounded on the locked door. It's ok to have boundaries. Happy is not the only acceptable emotion. After about ten days of the mommy-alone bath routine, they get used to it.

[Maggirayne]

I had to search for this--it still isn't stickied. :poke

[magpiemind]

These are great - I hope I can remember them when the time comes! I just want to print the whole thread and stick it up on the nursery wall. :)

[APMedicMommy]

Wow. I so need this. Not that I'm looking forward to getting upset again, but I can't wait to try it

[arwen_tiw]

I need to know where to find this thread, too. :popcorn

[Rugayatu]

I just read through this entire thread and want to thank everyone who contributed so much! Just starting out on some re-parenting of myself and this thread has been so helpful! :heart

[SewingGreenMama]

LOL, I usually just chant "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus help, Jesus..." then berate myself when the situation is over that I handled it badly....I definitely need to GBD myself.

[SewingGreenMama]

I sooo understand this, as we have this exact scenerio with my 4yo. Reading your description, and thinking back to times I've had to deal with this, I can break the anger down into:
fear/panic that the poop will get everywhere/he'll eat it

frustration that I just want to get him cleaned off thoroughly so it won't make him more sore, and he won't let me and I can't get him to understand that

I will say that at this point, the arching and clamping really only happens when he's having loose poop and his bottom is sore. Away from the situation, I have the perspective to realize that his bottom really hurts and the wiping makes it worse and he's really just trying to protect himself. I keep not actually doing this myself :shifty but I think the best thing here would be to try changing standing up in the tub. That way the mess is contained to an easily cleaned place, and you could spray him off if you have a handheld shower, or pour water with a cup, both of which would be less painful than wiping.
:hug2
This is what I do if M:jack is refusing to cooperate with a change and I'm starting to see red. I lay a towel over the side of the tub (for him to lean against) because our tub is enameled cast iron and COLD:shiver, turn on warm water and spray him down really good (we have a LONG hose that I also use to spray down diapers). when I'm done I put a fresh diaper on him give him to dh or put him somewhere safe and clean the tub (cleaning is my go to for getting my anger out) yammering at myself to get a grip and realize that he is simply just learning to be mobile and doesn't want to stop no matter how bloody:sick his bottom gets if I wait more then a few minutes to change him!

[bec28]

I so needed this thread! Ty! Now to only remember it when I need it.

[jewelmcjem]

A thanked post brought me back to this thread . . . we're ever so much bettah, but it's still a journey.

[Luciola]

Just discovered this thread...subbing so I don't lose it as I begin to read through :)

[Keeper-of-Mr.Monks]

:cup

[mommychem]

:sub
Posted via Mobile Device

[TenderLovingWillow]

I needed this thread. I'm generally scared of posting on super long threads, but I'm going to do it!!

[Barefoot]

Subbing too.

[milkdud]

:cup

[mokamoto]

I'm in. I tend to berate myself when I'm upset (maybe that's what my parents did... I know I saw my dad get mad at dd for losing her temper last time we were there. :mad) I think GBDing myself would work a lot better, and then whatever I play in my head is a lot more likely to come out of my mouth when I'm parenting dd.

I used to get upset at her for accidents- spilling things- because I do that to myself. I've learned to be a lot gentler with us both. No point in blaming an accident on her. It's just an accident.

I had a lightbulb moment yesterday- I am impatient and tough on my kids when I'm feeling like I did something poorly or I'm thinking about an interaction that didn't go as I liked. If I start with giving myself grace, acknowledging my feelings and parenting myself, I'll parent them better as well. I've always been one to internalize criticisms and worries and repeat them endlessly. I can be really hard on myself.

[hellomama]

:yes that was me subbing to this awesome thread. amazing amazing wisdom here

[Caecelia]

Subbing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JenniferM]

As a newbie, I have found this thread helpful and encouraging.
Helpful - I've already started teaching myself so I can respond more gracefully.
Encouraging - I have a legitimate reason to talk to myself!:D

Also, it helps me to know that others struggle with similar things. I was hesitant about joining this group because I thought maybe it was filled with moms that are gentle and kind and never get angry or yell at their kids.... It's much more helpful to see that it is filled with moms who do get angry and regretfully yell at their kids while pursuing gentleness and kindness!
Thank You!:clap
Jennifer

[MariekeSings]

Another one falling in love with this thread! I am so grateful that Allison pointed me here.

I don't have children yet, but I know I can start GDing/re-parenting myself now so I've got a head start! I definitely struggle with anger issues stemming from emotional abuse growing up, but DH has been a huge help walking me through healing from that, so it's better. But I want to gain more tools and strengthen myself as much as I can before kids!

[ShepherdsWife]

LOVE, Love, love, this thread. The idea of self-talk hadn't really occurred to my in such a practical. way. I definitely needed it!

[allisonintx]

It's so startlingly effective to patiently parent the little girls in your head, and watch how they respond. :yes

[Luciola]

I really needed this today. I'm glad it got bumped.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[Delaney]

:cup

[greenleafknitter]

I'm glad I found this thread. :heart I want to come back and and re-read and really soak in all the wisdom here.

[DancingWithElves]

Thank you for bumping this !

[thrillofhope]

I'm late to the party, but I want to sub and remember this. I cried through all 15 pages. I'm not doing okay. :sigh It helps to know other mamas I admire have been there.

[allisonintx]

If you're here and you made it through all 15 pages, you're already moving forward.

You might just be amazed at what an impact realizing that you can re-parent yourself toward health will make in your life, in a very very short time. :hug

[ShepherdsWife]

I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO :mad :mad :mad just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."

So, this is totally off subject but I had to reply when reading this thread just in case some other mom is trying to learn self-talk and also is struggling with this. Mine ds must be changed standing....end of story. If I stand him on the edge of the sink holding him or on the floor if he is took wiggly then he behaves pretty wonderfully. I just focus on his face or let him play with something. I use wash cloths, but it works when we are out and I'm using wipes. It is just like washing a toddlers bottom, but my ds is only 14 months. I've been doing it since he was 6 months and could stand. He HATES to lay down and that is when I come close to losing it and see red :madso I just don't make him. :phew

[thrillofhope]

Something I said to my son that I thought I needed to start parenting myself with:

"I know it's hard, and I know it's sad, but sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do."

Which is a lot better than, "Suck it up, cupcake." :shifty

[J3K]

I was hesitant about joining this group because I thought maybe it was filled with moms that are gentle and kind and never get angry or yell at their kids....

:laughtears :haha Sorry... that struck me as so stinkin' funny after the day I've had.

It's much more helpful to see that it is filled with moms who do get angry and regretfully yell at their kids while pursuing gentleness and kindness!
Thank You!:clap


:yes Grace is for mommies too. :yes

It was a real turning point for me allowing my kids to correct me. "Mom , that was rude and uncalled for." allowing them to have that voice I never did.

My 16yo daughter turned to me today and said , "Well that was mean." I realized it was and made amends.

My 19yo daughter's boyfriend startled...no...he scared the beejeebers outta me yesterday. I called him a very unflattering name in the heat of the moment. My daughter said , "MOTHER!! Language...my tender ears are burning here." I didn't apologize for that one :shifty , her boyfriend deserved it. :giggle

[thrillofhope]

It was a real turning point for me allowing my kids to correct me.

Yep. When I realized I was yelling all the time and my kids were copying me, the first thing I did was sit down and tell them, "It's not okay for us to yell. If mommy yells I want you to tell me." Now when my voice is starting to creep up DD(4) says, "Uh uh mommy. Don't yell." It helps.

[J3K]

I had more people stop and say "You're training her to always defy you." :rolleyes

My answer , every single time , "Would you allow anyone to stand in your face using their size to intimidate you and scream ? If the answer is yes , we need to have a serious talk about boundaries. If the answer is no , then I ask why wouldn't a child, a defenseless child , have the same rights ?"

[ShepherdsWife]

I just made it through the WHOLE thing!!!!!! I LOVE this thread. I have only began to realize recently the extent of abuse I had as a child. This, THIS is what I need to re-parent myself and be vulnerable enough to parent my child the way I wish I had been parented. Being able to be weak and do this is the challenge because I wasn't allowed emotions...hard, so, so hard and so worth it. :pray4

[Maggirayne]

I had a lightbulb moment yesterday- I am impatient and tough on my kids when I'm feeling like I did something poorly or I'm thinking about an interaction that didn't go as I liked. If I start with giving myself grace, acknowledging my feelings and parenting myself, I'll parent them better as well. I've always been one to internalize criticisms and worries and repeat them endlessly. I can be really hard on myself.
Met too. :hugheart
As a newbie, I have found this thread helpful and encouraging.
Helpful - I've already started teaching myself so I can respond more gracefully.
Encouraging - I have a legitimate reason to talk to myself!:D

Also, it helps me to know that others struggle with similar things. I was hesitant about joining this group because I thought maybe it was filled with moms that are gentle and kind and never get angry or yell at their kids.... It's much more helpful to see that it is filled with moms who do get angry and regretfully yell at their kids while pursuing gentleness and kindness!
Thank You!:clap
Jennifer
:roll Oh yeah, we're allllll human here. ;)
I had more people stop and say "You're training her to always defy you." :rolleyes

My answer , every single time , "Would you allow anyone to stand in your face using their size to intimidate you and scream ? If the answer is yes , we need to have a serious talk about boundaries. If the answer is no , then I ask why wouldn't a child, a defenseless child , have the same rights ?"
Right?! :rolleyes2 :sigh
:clap I wish I had you in my pocket for all the stupid things people say.

[allymom]

Subbing and going back through to read this whole thread.

[kindundmama]

New here. And I happened to click on this thread and realized so many things about myself and why, where, and how I am lacking in being a better parent. Oh my goodness! I read 8 pages and will continue later but I have to say a big thank you to all the members who have helped me understand so much about myself, feelings, and validation. Thank you a 1000 times.

[Living My Dream]

Subbing to read later. Thanks!

[Maggirayne]

This is one of my favourite threads ever.

[Meriby]

This is a great thread and really has me thinking about how I talk to myself and how my parents talked/talk to me.