Advanced Training Institute?

[liamum]

So I am watching the Duggar's show. They are at a big Advanced Training Institute conference. That is a HS curriculum, right :think

What is its foundation?

[Weezie]

Gothard. There was another thread on the old board about this. Gothard is BAD news. Bill Gothard is his name. Beating children is his game.

[allisonintx]

Umm, not exactly. It's Bill Gothard's thing. It is a cult. It is SCARY. Their Midwifery Training Program uses Ezzo as the parenting portion of the training. There are quite a few threads about it, you should check out the advanced search option on that one.

[liamum]

Wow! I did not know Gothard had their own HS curriculum!

[allisonintx]

Not just beating children, he is also in the business of promoting some seriously sick "theology" as well as political views and all manner of tripe for every part of a person's life.

[MarynMunchkins]

Run. Far, far away...to the safety of rational thought. :shifty

[Leslie]

From what I've seen, these are the kind of homeschoolers that critics base the weird homeschool stereotype on - the kids who are so deprived of any normality that the first time they're exposed to TV, they can't pull themselves away, and who often rebel as soon as they're old enough to leave home.

[allisonintx]

I've seen them go both ways. I had a LOT of contact with their midwifery trainees. ALL very young women, very impressionable, all away from home for the first time, and most of them entirely useless in a crisis. More of them got sent home than completed the apprenticeships. They were, by and large, socially awkward. It was funny to be around the first time they saw a tattoo or a clit piercing. Many of their fathers forbade them from being in prenatals when sex was discussed...um HELLO! MIDWIFERY!?! Sex = Babies. Sex is a HUGE part of midwifery, but because these girls are *all* unmarried...ugh. It is disasterous.

They own this beautiful creepy old hotel in Dallas where they have meetings, and conventions so that they don't have to stay in heathen hotels. It's all so weird.

[ReedleBeetle]

Bad...bad...bad news.

[liamum]

.um HELLO! MIDWIFERY!?! Sex = Babies. Sex is a HUGE part of midwifery, but because these girls are *all* unmarried...ugh. It is disasterous.

Wow. So I guess the whole idea of God giving us marriage as a place to safely express the sexuality He blessed us with is kind of lost on them.

[popsiclemom]

Umm, not exactly. It's Bill Gothard's thing. It is a cult. It is SCARY. Their Midwifery Training Program uses Ezzo as the parenting portion of the training. There are quite a few threads about it, you should check out the advanced search option on that one.

Thats interesting. The midwife I used for my HBAC taught a growing kids gods way class at her church. I wonder if she was affiliated the program in some way.

[MissusLeata]

I've seen them go both ways. I had a LOT of contact with their midwifery trainees. ALL very young women, very impressionable, all away from home for the first time, and most of them entirely useless in a crisis. More of them got sent home than completed the apprenticeships. They were, by and large, socially awkward. It was funny to be around the first time they saw a tattoo or a clit piercing. Many of their fathers forbade them from being in prenatals when sex was discussed...um HELLO! MIDWIFERY!?! Sex = Babies. Sex is a HUGE part of midwifery, but because these girls are *all* unmarried...ugh. It is disasterous.

They own this beautiful creepy old hotel in Dallas where they have meetings, and conventions so that they don't have to stay in heathen hotels. It's all so weird.

I was in ATI and in the midwifery program. Not all ATI students were like that. I remember feeling like some bad information was given on BC and I went to talk to a teacher about it. I was perfectly comfortable talking to him about birth control and sex, but he refused to talk to me and said he would be willing to talk to my parents. I was probably 20 and paying for my own schooling. I was so frustrated! I worked with a single mom with an STD but when I mentioned it at a conference, I remember feeling like everyone else thought I was weird or something.

And the hotel in Dallas isn't there so that they don't stay at wordly hotels. It's a Training Center, basically a school campus. It used to be a hotel and was donated to them.

ATI does have serious problems and I would stay away from it. But how much it affects a family that uses it depends on the family. Some people choose to only use it as a curricullum and they are less affected. Others see it as a way of life (which is sort of how Bill Gothard promotes it) and they are usually much more affected.

Circumcision is taught as a way to help your sons avoid moral problems later in life. Grace is defined as God giving you the desire and ability to do His will. Babywise was promoted. Water birth was heathen.

Bill Gothard teaches 14 consecutive days of abstinence each month, plus the night before worship. As young people growing up in ATI, my husband and I got an odd view of sex. It was pretty much: guys want it - women don't and good husbands won't ask very often. One year they were promoting abstinence for the 9 mos. of pregnancy. My family was more open about sex and so some of the more strange ideas were refuted in my home (which I'm grateful for).

Anyway, yes, it's a homeschool program of sorts, but has some serious cult tendencies. Families can use it without really getting into the cult-side of it, but it's a difficult curricullum to use and there are far better ones out there for the price, as it's weak academically and theologically.

[Maiden]

I grew up on Gothard and have many friends who subscribe to that philosophy, and it just makes me want to shudder to think about. 14 days of abstinence? Nothankyou.

[Chris3jam]

Pretty much what everyone has said. Only, I've seen it go both ways. I've seen the children come out of it even *more* legalistic and "Gothard" than their parents (seriously, *that* is twisted -- I've seen it first-hand). And, I've seen them come out of it rejecting, not all, but most of it. It's all across the board. For a lot of people, it is a way of life, or becomes that way just because of the influence exerted upon the young people.

[Shnooky]

WOW! I've never heard of Gothard before! That is scary! It's good to learn about things that you should be aware of.

[Lila]

Not only that, but you have to fulfill some pretty rigorous requirements just to get the curriculum. There was some really crazy application form that I saw once. I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: Found an application form. http://www.festville.com/wp-content/ati-application.pdf

ETA2: Good heavens, I used the wrong form of there!

[liamum]

Water birth was heathen.

Okay I am sorry if I am getting way OT in terms of homes chooling, but why is water birth heathen?

Lila-thanks for the link.

[mommy2abigail]

yeah, I was curious too.

[Zipporah]

Not only that, but you have to fulfill some pretty rigorous requirements just to get the curriculum. Their was some really crazy application form that I saw once. I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: Found an application form. http://www.festville.com/wp-content/ati-application.pdf

:wow

[MissusLeata]

Okay I am sorry if I am getting way OT in terms of homes chooling, but why is water birth heathen?

Lila-thanks for the link.

Water birth was considered wicked because supposedly it's based on evolution. I felt so bad after attending a water birth. :-) So, I went to one of the instructors, and she actually did them. But she wasn't as far "out there" as the official stance was on a few things. Like she apologized to us after saying that she didn't think circumcision was necessary. ATI's official stance was that it's to be done on the 8th day, you should have a special ceremony and it would help your son not be immoral later in life.

[ShiriChayim]

:scratch I'm sorry, what? I'm usually pretty good at speaking crazy, but I need a little help connecting water birth to evolution? :scratch

[MissusLeata]

:scratch I'm sorry, what? I'm usually pretty good at speaking crazy, but I need a little help connecting water birth to evolution? :scratch

:-)

Supposedly, water birth is based on the idea that we evolved from fish and that babies should be in water after they are born (or something like that).

My experience has been that women just get in the tub for pain relief and refuse to get out. :-)

Of course, that instruction was given by a man who's qualification to teach us was that his daughter was a midwife. He wasn't an OB or anything. It was kind of odd.

[mommy2abigail]

wow. just wow.:jawdrop