HELP! Yelling feels like my only option

[KarenBoo]

Hello....again

I have posted before about my yelling. Short story - I've been yelling more and more since my pregnancy, which equals about 2 years of this now! I was not a yeller before becoming pregnant. I've been looking at the medical/hormonal aspects to this.

But it has dawned on me that one other reason for this is because I've just hit the wall with my patience on repeating directions/instructions. I think I've just gotten to the point where I can't say it nicely anymore. I'll give examples....

1) When DD1 was 2 years old, she went through a licking phase. I handled that with patience and grace, and we got through it. She has gone, months, and probably years at a time without licking me. But now that she is nearly 6, she still licks me on occasion. Just yesterday we were playing in the bed, and she licked me! :banghead What do I do with that? What I did do was to get angry. I told her she just ruined a perfectly good play time and told her to leave the room. I wasn't necessarily loud, but I was clearly angry with her. I was so upset by this - WHY did she have to do that???? And what is a good GBD response to this? I don't like the way I handled it, shaming her like that.

2) Yesterday, DD asked if she could have a straw. I said "no." (I know, I know - it sounds so simple to just say "yes" to that! We had a discussion, and continue to discuss our desires to reduce the amount of plastics that we use in the house. We have a straw rule that straws are for homeopathy (I use them to dose DD2.), or times when they might make drinking easier, like with a smoothie or in the car...) She did not want a straw for drinking, she wanted one to play with because I had given one to DD2 after I gave her the homeopathy. OK, so the answer was "no." She goes to the drawer, gets a straw out, and says "pleeeeeaaaaaase?" I got angry, but I could think of no natural consequence for this, and I sent her to time out. :doh I hate sending her to time out because it goes against my general parenting desires (my desires align with GBD, but I'm obviously not effective at it!)

3) Yesterday we were at some friends' house having lunch. We were outside on their patio, and I was sitting in one of those patio chairs with a bit of "spring" in it so it rocks slightly. Well, DD1 came behind me and started rocking my chair quite hard, and I was not enjoying it. DD2 was in my lap. I nicely said "DD1, I need you to stop rocking my chair now." She continued. I said again, nicely "DD1, you need to stop rocking my chair." She continued for about 2 seconds longer, then my friend asked her to come over to her (which got her away from my chair) and explained that she might break the chair. But I know that had my friend not intervened, I may have yelled. What would have been the next step? (please know that it is very difficult for me to get in and out of chairs because my knees are in very bad shape.)

4) This scenario actually has happened twice. She asks to go outside with DH, and we say "no." (This is because he has gone outside to grab something quick from the car and will be right back, and it is incredibly upsetting to DD2 for either of them to leave. Also, DH will be back inside before DD1 can even get her shoes on.) But after we say "no" she whines in an ugly way "WHY!?" and as we explain the above, she goes thru the baby gate as if to get her shoes on. Both times that this has happened, I have yelled at her to get back inside. But again, I can think of no natural consequence, and I feel like I'm not teaching her anything at all except that there is no consequence for going directly against something I just told her not to do. And also, it seems that she doesn't do what we say unless we are yelling, which I know is a common problem.....but what to do???

OK, I will stop there. I will truly appreciate help with this!!! I want to change very much, and I think it will help to hear more effective ways to deal with these situations.

[Rabbit]

:listen

[MarynMunchkins]

1) Is she getting her 6 yo molars? IME, licking is often tied to teething. :) I think an appropriate response to anything she does to your body is to move your body away from her. You can even be angry about it. There's nothing inherently wrong with saying "Eew! That's nasty!" and moving. :no

2) I would personally buy some glass straws. ;) http://www.glassdharma.com I think your reasons behind her not getting a straw would be difficult for a 6 yo to understand, and that generally leads to whining.

3) I'd have given her something else to do. Being playful probably would have worked.

4) :think Could you have her time her dad to see how long it takes him to get back? Give her something to do to race him?

[Katherine]

1) If she did something gross... especially *to* your body, it's ok to feel and react accordingly. :shrug3 I don't think you did anything wrong by letting her know how that felt to you (disgusting). If it's something she's been told not to do in the past, then I think ending the play session was totally appropriate. If you feel you used a tone or wording that was too harsh, then you can modify it for the future, but don't feel like you have to have a sugary sweet response to everything she does. Her actions will upset you at times, and--at times--that's a natural and appropriate response.

IME... not giving yourself permission to feel frustration, or communicate your feelings to your kids (especially older kids), and not drawing lines firm enough or soon enough, is a KEY factor is yelling too much.

2) Umm.. No means No.... and a 6yo is capable of getting that.

"No." "Put it back." "You asked, I answered." "Saying 'please' doesn't change the answer I've already given." If those responses are met with continued whining, negotiating, arguing, or fit-throwing, then I have no problem restricting the freedom of an older child until they are ready to cooperate. If you wanted to talk to her about the reasons behind your plastic rules sometime, that would be great, but a) it sounds like you already have and b) in that moment she was simply choosing not to accept your "No." If she a child who REALLY needs to understand why (and I get that :yes ) that you can offer her a brief reminder of the reason, but you need to make clear that you're not opening up a discussion or negotiation about it... just reminding.

3) After the first time you asked nicely and she continued, I would have had her come around in front of me and sit down on the floor for a few minutes. When there was a break in the adult conversation, I would have addressed what was happening and what she should have done differently. Again... I have no problem restricting the freedom of a SIX YEAR OLD that is not complying with instructions, interfering with people's bodies and spaces, and disregarding clear instructions.

4) Again, IMO... she is rejecting your "No." and my response to that would be calm but firm. I would have stopped her from going through and reiterated my answer, perhaps with a brief reassurance.

"You need to stay here. Daddy will be right back." Continued fighting/arguing/whining would then be dealt with just like you deal with tantrums on any other topic.

It's one thing to teach our kids principles and help them understand the ideas behind our rules--and that's best done, IMO, away from the moment of conflict. It's something else to feel like we have to explain/defend *to our kids* every parenting decision we make, every limit we set, every instruction we give. :no

YOU are the parent. It sounds to me like you need to firm up your responses, draw lines earlier before you get frustrated and feel like yelling, implement more tangible restrictions when she is uncompliant, and let go of the ideas that you have to apologize for your own feelings.. or that your kids have to understand you before they can be expected to comply with you.

hope that makes sense.. writing in a hurry this morning. :phew

[arymanth]

I'm a "yeller", too. I grew up with a yelling mom, and while I was not a "yelling" person before kids, I definitely became one when my kids came along. :blush I honestly think this was because I never had to learn to be patient before that point. I was able to be selfish to some extent, no one invaded my "personal space" or pushed my comfort boundaries. Kids definitely do that! I spent 10 years or parenting basically trying to get my kids to stop stressing me out, until I realized that what I really needed was for God to help me learn to love my kids no matter what their behavior was like. That was the only way I was ever going to learn to be an effective parent. This is essentially learning self-control, and it can be soooooo hard!!! Just reading your post it sounds like you are stressed out by your daughter's behavior and you just want relief from it. The things she is doing really aren't that bad, but you are trying to find a way to "gently" punish her for annoying you. She licked you... it irritated you. She wants something you don't want her to have, and when she protests, you get irritated. She bounced your chair and it irritated you. She wants to go outside, you don't want her to, and when she protests you allow that to irritate you. It sounds like the real issue isn't her behavior, but your sensitivity to it. You just want it to stop because it bugs you, not because what she is doing is an important safety or character issue. Until you can get a grip on your own feelings, you will not be able to work with her effectively. I'm saying this as someone who has had to recognize and correct this in my own life, and I'm still working on it. :hug2

I always tell my kids, you are only as strong as the smallest thing that can irritate you. Being a parent means you have to develop an emotional skin like rhino-hide, so that the normal stuff kids do does not stress you out. When you're stressed, you can't make good parenting decisions and you cannot act with grace. This is something you will have to go to God with and ask him to help you learn patience. "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires." James 1:19-20 Basically, if you are parenting out of anger or frustration, you will not get the results you are looking for. First you have to deal with your own attitude, then you can deal with your child.

"Patience" doesn't mean being "nice" all the time, it means not acting or making decisions based on your own emotions. You can be firm and calm without being "artificially sweet". It also doesn't mean pretending to be calm or happy. Patience means giving up your right to be irritated. You have to give those emotions to God. Trust me, if you don't practice and figure this out NOW when your kids are young, you will be in for a world of misery and frustration as they get older. (voice of experience here!!!!) For one thing, you are teaching your kids by your own behavior that it is acceptable to be irritated with others and to act on that irritation to get back at them. (you irritated me, so I get to make you suffer) This can lead to having touchy, intollerant kids who lash out when people annoy them because they feel like they have that "right". (my 18yo is like this, it is like seeing my own behavior magnified 100 fold, and it's ugly and embarrassing when I recognize myself in him.) If you want your child to be tolerant, you have to model tolerance. If you want them to be compassionate, you have to model compassion. If you want to teach them self control, then you have to have your own behavior under control. Until you can learn to curb your own emotions, that should be your first concern, and your child's behavior secondary. (pull the beam out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out of hers)

When your daughter does something and you start to feel that irritation rise up in you, that is the time to stop for a moment and pray and ask God to deal with your heart. Before your child's behavior gets addressed, yours needs to be. It's like when you're on an airplane with a child, in the event of an accident, you need to secure your own oxygen mask first, then attend to your child. It does no good to have an out of control mom trying to control her child. You will find that you can be much more creative, more sensitive, and more effective when you deal with yourself first. :yes

So in a nutshell, the solution to yelling is... praying. When you start to yell, stop to pray. "God, I give up my right to be frustrated. Please help me to deal with my child with your love." It won't be easy, but if you keep doing it, it will change you... it will allow you to become the kind of parent you really want to be.
:heart

Stephanie
mom to seven sensational kids!!!

[ladymama]

I don't necessarily think that being a parent means giving up your right to get annoyed. Also, as a mother with sensory issues, I would and have totally freaked out over being licked or bounced like that. The OP handled things much better than I usually do. There is nothing wrong in setting firm boundaries about your OWN body. It may help if you talk to your child in a calm moment about why these things bother you...maybe even make an "official rule". That has helped in my case. hth.

[arymanth]

I don't necessarily think that being a parent means giving up your right to get annoyed. Also, as a mother with sensory issues, I would and have totally freaked out over being licked or bounced like that. The OP handled things much better than I usually do. There is nothing wrong in setting firm boundaries about your OWN body. It may help if you talk to your child in a calm moment about why these things bother you...maybe even make an "official rule". That has helped in my case. hth.


I meant to address this in my last post, but I was afraid it was already too long. Being patient and not getting irritated are not the same as becoming a doormat and not having personal boundaries. The difference is in how you respond to people who cross these boundaries, especially children. I personally am not a touchy-feelie person, and I have trouble with my kids when they enter my personal space, but I have to remember that their perception is not the same as mine. My 4th son, particularly, was so physically oriented that he made me cringe, because he was constantly touching me, sticking his hands down my shirt, up my shorts, my ears, my mouth, anywhere he could reach skin. (we called him Mr. McFeelie! LOL) His need for touch had to be balanced with my need for space, but in the beginning when he could not possibly understand this, I had to really learn to deal with my own discomfort. It hurt his feelings when he could not be touching me, and it creeped me out when he WAS touching me, so there was a lot of personal growth that had to occur on my part to learn to cope with him and meet his needs without freaking out. I also have 2 ADHD boys who are very physically agressive...not mean, but they liked to jump on me and wrestle a lot. This was a very real need for them, too. I had to get over not liking to be touched so I could give them what they needed, which was rough and tumble play. (I didn't do that very well with my first, and it caused a lot of strain in our relationship because he felt like I was always pushing him away. :() In all of these situations, even though I was uncomfortable, I still did not have the right to become irritated or annoyed and take that out on my kids. I was the adult, and I needed to learn to deal with my own issues without punishing my kids for them. It is not their fault that I don't like to be touched, or that they NEED to be touched. If there are sensory issues, then a way needs to be worked out to deal with them so the child is not forced to sacrifice for the adult's comfort, AND the adult doesn't have to constantly suffer because there are no boundaries.

And there are situations where parents do need to just get over themselves. My parents were too nit-picky in a lot of ways, and I grew up with the idea that I was entitled to having MY life/home just the way I wanted it, and everyone else had to respect my personal preferences. It's taken me years to recognize that the needs and preferences of my children are every bit as valid as my own, and I do not have the right to punish them just because they do things that I do not particularly enjoy (or even that bug the living daylights out of me!!!) but are really not "bad". I have to assess these things and figure out if they really are important, or if I am being unreasonable just because I want a certain level of personal comfort. It can annoying when my 3yo keeps asking "why" if I tell her she can't do something, but that's not a good reason to punish her for me not being able to deal with normal toddler behavior. And yes, it IS possible to get over this... I am a MUCH more tolerant person now than I was with my first child... but first I had to acknowledge that *I* was the one with the problem, not my child. Yes, being bounced (a la Tigger) is not fun, but it's not acceptable to get irritable about it and punish my child for my own discomfort. I need to own my own feelings and deal with them without bringing my child into the mix. Once I have dealt with myself, I can work with my child on meeting their needs without doing things that may make others uncomfortable. I'm not talking about being a Stepford mom, with no real emotions but "happy", I'm saying that we should learn to respond to our children in a Christ-like manner, even when we ARE offended or irritated. It's normal to become irritated, but it's not ok to act on that feeling.

[Rabbit]

It's normal to become irritated, but it's not ok to act on that feeling.


I completely disagree with you. Even God, sinless perfect God, gets wrathful. Anger and irritation, and expressing those feelings, are not sins or unChristlike.

It's how you express it, and what you do with those feelings, that matter. Trying to squash those feelings only makes me feel more out of control. Using them as weapons against my children is equally wrong. Somewhere in the middle is a healthy, mature, and still frustrated mama.

[Katherine]

I can actually relate to some of what arymanth is describing... AND to the disagreements mentioned. :lol :think :shifty

Maybe the key difference is the Mom who feels frustrated about a wide range of normal, age-expected (though not necessarily appropriate) behaviors versus

a) the Mom who feels frustrated because her child is repeatedly violating rules or blowing past boundaries that have already been taught.
b) the Mom who feels frustrated because her child doesn't behave in accordance with a standard that is both age-appropriate and reasonably flexible but isn't parenting them in a way that teaches/requires that behavior.

The first Mom I mentioned might need to work on her own patience issues and educate herself... find coping mechanisms and make some sacrifices in order to have a more reasonable threshold.
The Moms in a) and b) however, have a disciplinary issue that needs further investigation. In the absence of special needs, I believe clearly expressed, firmly enforced boundaries are the first thing to try.

it's not acceptable to get irritable about it and punish my child for my own discomfort. I need to own my own feelings and deal with them without bringing my child into the mix.

I don't see that anyone has suggested punishing the child :no or of making them responsible for an adult's feelings. :no That's not what it's about. It *is* about Mom needing to know where her own (reasonable ;) :yes ) limits lie, and setting personal boundaries that stop a child from pushing those limits. Limits are allowed--even for Mommies. :) With a 3yo, I expect to have to give more than with a 6yo and, and I preserve my boundaries in different ways. When we have no individual boundaries, though, people WILL do things that provoke us to anger, irritation, grief, and retaliation--and those feelings are NATURAL healthy responses in some cases. Saying we shouldn't allow ourselves to feel those things no matter what a person (even our child) does is not healthy, IMO. Negative emotions are a useful and legitimate part of our psyche, and usually an indicator of a problem. Sometimes, that problem IS our own perspective or habits--like I think Arymanth is saying :yes and sometimes that problem is how we allow others to treat us.

[ladymama]

Arymanth- I do actually agree with you quite abit, especially in light of the clarification. Because of my upbringing I tend to get a little overly-nervous about not having control of my own body and space. Big part of my choice in gentle discipline. As mothers we do need to acknowledge and meet our childrens needs, but there are ways to do so without sacrificing our own too. That is what I was really trying to say.

[ArmsOfLove]

Just wanted to pop in and add that there does need to be a realistic expectation of how often you are going to need to repeat things to a child, even a 6yo--and it's LOTS. When I was growing up in Hawaii they used to say you have to say something 100 times before the child remembers it--more before they understand it.

The problem isn't having a boundary
The problem isn't enforcing a boundary
The problem isn't getting frustrated at a boundary being violated
The problem is reacting instead of responding :hug2

[MomtoJGJ]

Just wanted to pop in and add that there does need to be a realistic expectation of how often you are going to need to repeat things to a child, even a 6yo--and it's LOTS. When I was growing up in Hawaii they used to say you have to say something 100 times before the child remembers it--more before they understand it.

The problem isn't having a boundary
The problem isn't enforcing a boundary
The problem isn't getting frustrated at a boundary being violated
The problem is reacting instead of responding :hug2


wow, I needed this!! Thanks a lot... :)

[mommylobster]

If you want your child to be tolerant, you have to model tolerance. If you want them to be compassionate, you have to model compassion. If you want to teach them self control, then you have to have your own behavior under control.

Stephanie, I really agree with this. I didn't get, from your post, that you were saying to ignore your feelings, but to find a self controlled way to express them. I think its important to model healthy ways to express anger and frustration. But in my opinion, the examples posted by Karenboo were neither life threatening or unhealthy. Sure these things could be annoying, I don't like it when my DS licks me either, but if I find that I am ready to yell at the small stuff, it is usually something else that is bothering me and is all adding up throughout the day.

Karenboo, I don't see the big deal in letting your DS go to the car with your DH. Sure, it takes more time to put her shoes on, but by just saying "No, it takes to much time to put your shoes on" tells her that what she wants to do is not worth the time it would take to put her shoes on and she maybe just wants to spend time with her Dad, even if its just a trip out to the car. A lot of bonding can happen in the little moments. I can understand your concern for reducing plastic but I can see your DD's frustration that her brother gets one and not her, even if it is for homeopathy and a straw is a very small amount of plastic to worry about. It sounds, from your examples, that you are more concerned about control and immediate results. I have days when I would love my DS to immediately obey on command but I have chosen Gentle Discipline and I know that I have to let go of wanting immediate results and know that I will have long term results and ask myself "Why am I not letting him do this, is it because I want control? Is it life threatening, unhealthy or unkind?"

I struggle with anxiety so I also understand that there are just some days where you just don't feel like you can handle even the small stuff. But like Stephanie said about the airplane oxygen mask, you need to take care of yourself. My counsellor asked me one time "What are you doing to take care of YOU?". One of the things that I started doing, suggested by my counsellor, was to rest when my DS has his pm nap. I don't do any housework, I just read or do things that relax me. I used to be so wound up that I didn't even know what I liked to do for relaxation, so I tried lots of different things. I have found that I love drinking decaf tea and reading. I also have to watch my sugar intake and avoid caffeine. This is my experience, it may be totally different for you. But maybe it would be a good idea to ask yourself "What are you doing to take care of YOU?".

hth :shrug3
mommylobster

[Katherine]

Just wanted to pop in and add that there does need to be a realistic expectation of how often you are going to need to repeat things to a child, even a 6yo--and it's LOTS. When I was growing up in Hawaii they used to say you have to say something 100 times before the child remembers it--more before they understand it.

The problem isn't having a boundary
The problem isn't enforcing a boundary
The problem isn't getting frustrated at a boundary being violated
The problem is reacting instead of responding

I want to understand this.. :O but... :shifty I'm not sure I do. :scratch :lol

I agree that things have to be taught and repeated--even to a 6yo. :yes I might expect to teach a principle 100 times... but I'm not going to give the same instruction 100 times to a child who is not complying. :think
For me, if I go beyond 2 or 3 times on a particular issue *with a child that age*, I'm being permissive... and my kids respond to that by pushing the envelope on other things. If I'm having to say *everything* 2 or 3 times then we're stuck in an unhealthy rut where my words dont mean anything until they've been uttered multiple times. :think

What do you feel is the difference between reacting and responding? My first thought when I read that was... "Well, yes. :yes Yelling is a reaction. Setting a boundary is a response." But I'm not sure if that's what you meant, judging from your preceding statements. :shifty :giggle

Could you clarify a bit? :heart

[KarenBoo]

Hello again,

Thanks y'all so very much for all of your very thoughtful replies to me! I can see here that there are lots of opinions about this! I thought I would clarify a few things.


The licking...I shared the story that this began at age 2. So she currently licks me about once every month or two. I'm just very tired of telling her not to. I'm CERTAIN I've told her at least a thousand times by now! (OK, I'm really saying that humorously!) :lol I realize that there are 2 problems here. One - she can't seem to not lick me for whatever reason, and I feel like whatever I'm doing is totally ineffective because it keeps happening. Two - I am obviously overreacting, definitely not wanting to, and don't know what *else* to do. Is the answer to really just keep saying firmly "don't lick me." Is that really it? I don't see any change that is going to come out of that. I mean, it hasn't so far. Neither has yelling, yes I know! (oh, and 6 year molars have been fully in for at least 6 months now.) Crystal - are you saying my expectations of a 6yo are unrealistic in that she can't control herself from licking me? (asked in an honest tone, not an angry tone) :)

The straws - This is not a continual issue. In fact, it only happened one time. So the issue is not straws. The issue is that my "no" obviously does not mean "no." I gave this as an example, but I have plenty more examples of when I say "no" and she turns around and does it anyway. I'm looking for a way to handle this in general that can apply to many situations.

The going outside with DH thing. (note - we live in an RV, and DH runs outside frequently for this or that.) The reason we don't let DD come along each time is because yes, it does take DH longer to do whatever he was going to do in the first place, and he doesn't want to have to do that every single time he steps outside for a second. But most important is that DD2 (15 months old) stands at the baby gate and screams and cries when she feels she is being left out. So for DD1 to go outside with DH most often means that DH must take DD2 along (or leave me to console a screaming baby.) And, most of the time, we DO say YES to DD1, because DH is awesome and is willing to pick up the baby and do whatever he went out to do with a baby in his arms. But when the answer is no, it's no. I want to be able to say "no" and have it respected.


Several things in y'alls replies to me have stood out, and I'm going to re-read all of this several times. Katherine, I really appreciate you giving me examples of setting limits without being disrespectful. Something you said really stood out, and that is that yes, it does seem like DD1 wants me to explain every single parenting decision to her, and it also seems that if she doesn't agree, the she goes ahead with her own plans despite what I just said. I always thought I'd never say "because I said so." DH and I are experts at explaining our decisons to DD. But yes, we explain why, then she explains why that answer is no good, and then we explain it again, in more detail, and then she rejects that, and so on and so on. (Then I usually end up yelling at her to quit arguing with me and do what I said to do. :bag) So I don't know how to get out of that cycle of this back & forth thing. I don't want to say "because I said so" and I don't want to engage her in a discussion of my parental decisions. I have tried the tactic to calmly say "you need to do what I said first, and then we can talk about it" (I know...I know...it feels very Ezzo-ish!) That works in a lot of situations.

Stephanie - thank you for the advice to pray when I feel riled. I will say that I definitly agree that I need to work on me. I am reading books about not yelling. I am working on getting my hormones worked out. I realize that I am not myself, and for a while, I kept waiting to just "return to normal." I've been more proactive about it for the last 6 months, but am not seeing a whole lot of change. :cry

Crystal - Thank you for your advice as well. I think I also need more clarification. Obviously, I'm reacting in a bad way. Responding...responding...responding...(thinking) okay - I think if I had good responses to these situations, then I wouldn't be yelling. I think that I maybe haven't had good responses in the past, so these things keep coming up.

And to everyone - yes, I realize that each of these things sounds like just a little thing. But I do feel henpecked each day. Lots of little things going on like this every day over and over. So I agree, I need to draw firmer boundaries, respond better, and not yell. I just don't know how to do that. (goodness, I do sound whiney, huh?)

Oh, I think I have more to type but I have to run - thanks!!!

[Katherine]

((( KarenBoo )))

I've found that most of my parenting hurdles were complex, and required multi-pronged solutions. :hug2

The licking...I shared the story that this began at age 2. So she currently licks me about once every month or two. I'm just very tired of telling her not to. I'm CERTAIN I've told her at least a thousand times by now! (OK, I'm really saying that humorously!) I realize that there are 2 problems here. One - she can't seem to not lick me for whatever reason, and I feel like whatever I'm doing is totally ineffective because it keeps happening. Two - I am obviously overreacting, definitely not wanting to, and don't know what *else* to do. Is the answer to really just keep saying firmly "don't lick me." Is that really it? I don't see any change that is going to come out of that. I mean, it hasn't so far. Neither has yelling, yes I know!

I have had a child that licked (not randomly or compulsively--usually in the context of pretending he was a puppy or some such), and it did get better when I allowed myself to have a very firm response to it--both in terms of communicating, ending the play if necessary, and restricting his freedom if he made a game out of continuing. If it's gone on for years with your dd, and firm boundaries don't help, there may be other issues at play. :think I would really consider sensory issues if licking is more frequent, more random, and/or seems somewhat compulsive. You can Google SPD (Sensory Processing Disorder) to understand a little more about it.

it does seem like DD1 wants me to explain every single parenting decision to her, and it also seems that if she doesn't agree, the she goes ahead with her own plans despite what I just said. I always thought I'd never say "because I said so." DH and I are experts at explaining our decisons to DD. But yes, we explain why, then she explains why that answer is no good, and then we explain it again, in more detail, and then she rejects that, and so on and so on. (Then I usually end up yelling at her to quit arguing with me and do what I said to do. ) So I don't know how to get out of that cycle of this back & forth thing. I don't want to say "because I said so" and I don't want to engage her in a discussion of my parental decisions. I have tried the tactic to calmly say "you need to do what I said first, and then we can talk about it" (I know...I know...it feels very Ezzo-ish!) That works in a lot of situations.

:yes :giggle I'm nodding at this entire description. So familiar!

I have really moved away from attempts to explain myself *in the moment* .... particularly in regard to routine daily tasks ("stay in the house"), or issues that I've already taught/explained. I spent a lot of my kids younger years explaining, coaching, and teaching. I don't think that phase is over now, but the topics have changes. There comes a point where I start to let them bear more responsibility for the things they've already been taught. For example, if one of my older boys (5.75 and 7.5) gets aggressive, I'm not going to go start off with an explanation about what is wrong with hitting and why they shouldn't do it and what will happen when they hit. :hunh :no They know. I've been talking to them for years about how hitting hurts, about other people's feelings, about respecting body boundaries and space... about not using aggression to solve problems. I've coached them on what *to* do when they feel that way, and how to resolve problems with other kids. I've been reminding them "Use your words first... Then move your own body out of the way... Then come get an adult if there's still a problem." So, yes, they immediately lose freedom when they get aggressive. We do talk about it later, and they are often the ones who articulate the problem and tell me what they should have done differently. :shrug3

For my oldest child who's always finding that loophole, wanting to negotiate a different solution, or suggesting an alternative to my instructions... I've had to try to give him opportunities to use that skill--include him in some decision-making... ask him to problem-solve his own situations, etc. And I've tried to make a clear distinction between the times he can be involved and the times when I am making an executive decision that's not up for discussion. If it's possible and reasonable, I try to listen to what he's saying/feeling and validate some part of his thought process--even if I don't change my mind. And--occasionally--he makes a really good point and I modify my instruction in some way. With those measures of respect and leniency in place, though, I do expect compliance in situations where he just needs to do what he was told. I strive for respect among all members of our family, but it's not a democracy. We would never get anything done if everyone had to understand or agree on every little decision. :giggle I do often have to clarify with him after my initial instruction. "This is not your choice to make. You need to... " or "You don't have to agree with me. You still need to .... " or offering a VERY concise reminder of something I've already explained. We went through a year or so where we talked a LOT about the fact that Mommy and Daddy are the leaders of the family and make the decisions... pointing out to him the times he would get entrenched with his own plans and keep pushing ahead with them no matter what we said, etc... and giving him more freedoms and privileges as he showed a higher level of compliance and responsibility. He has shown a lot of improvement in the last year. :yes

I have tried the tactic to calmly say "you need to do what I said first, and then we can talk about it"

I see nothing wrong with--sometimes--expecting a child to comply with an instruction now--with minimal or no explanation--and teaching the concept behind it later. It's not realistic to expect to teach/prep everything beforehand, or stop time in order to sit down and work through an explanation for every little thing. Mind you, I do a lot of expressing reasons and talking through my thought processes as we go about our days... But there are times when that's not feasible. "I know you don't understand this. I will explain later. Right now you need to go ahead and... " often moves us along--and yes, there are often upset feelings expressed at being "shut down." Sometimes, I will give them just a minute to express an alternative view.. then stop them, acknowledge their feelings or point and say. "I hear what you are saying. My decision is still... " There are also a lot of times when I ask, "Are you wanting to understand the decision I've already made, or are you trying to change my mind?"

This dynamic where a parent teaches, talks through, explains things (sometimes before, sometimes during, and sometimes after), is respectful, compassionate, empathetic, and authoritative.... AND requires compliance from a child is *not* the same as the punitive mindsets where parents speak, expect instant obedience, and punish for the lack thereof or for any questioning of the instruction. :sadno

I want to be able to say "no" and have it respected.

This caught my attention in regard to having realistic expectations... :think

Having the goal that my child will of his own initiative respect and respond to my "No" sets me up for frustration/anger and disappointment, b/c it's something inside another person... something I can't control.
Having the goal that when I say "No" I will expect compliance, help my child learn to comply, and hold my ground until that happens..... understanding that my kids will have big feelings and negative responses sometimes and knowing that I can and will deal with those..... *that* is more realistic and is something completely within MY power to make happen. It means that I am invested in every instruction I give and every limit I set... and that is the essence of active, involved, GOYB parenting. :yes

[ArmsOfLove]

Just wanted to pop in and add that there does need to be a realistic expectation of how often you are going to need to repeat things to a child, even a 6yo--and it's LOTS. When I was growing up in Hawaii they used to say you have to say something 100 times before the child remembers it--more before they understand it.

The problem isn't having a boundary
The problem isn't enforcing a boundary
The problem isn't getting frustrated at a boundary being violated
The problem is reacting instead of responding

I want to understand this.. :O but... :shifty I'm not sure I do. :scratch :lol

I agree that things have to be taught and repeated--even to a 6yo. :yes I might expect to teach a principle 100 times... but I'm not going to give the same instruction 100 times to a child who is not complying. :think
For me, if I go beyond 2 or 3 times on a particular issue *with a child that age*, I'm being permissive... and my kids respond to that by pushing the envelope on other things. If I'm having to say *everything* 2 or 3 times then we're stuck in an unhealthy rut where my words dont mean anything until they've been uttered multiple times. :think

What do you feel is the difference between reacting and responding? My first thought when I read that was... "Well, yes. :yes Yelling is a reaction. Setting a boundary is a response." But I'm not sure if that's what you meant, judging from your preceding statements. :shifty :giggle

Could you clarify a bit? :heart


You're pretty much understanding what I meant :)

If my 6yo is still struggling with something I'm going to have to try something new--if I continue doing what isn't working and then get mad at them that it's still not working I'm setting myself up for frustration. I'm allowing it to happen and then reacting to it.

Responding is to the entire situation--examining it. What is working, what isn't? Do I need a boundary for the boundary so that my real boundary isn't crossed? Is there a lesson that hasn't been taught or grasped? It's MY responsibility to figure out what is needed and to try different things until I figure it out. It is *not* my child's responsibility.

[KarenBoo]

Hi y'all,

I'm back. I went without WiFi for a week around the timing of this post, so I couldn't come back. But, I wanted to come back and say THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for everyone's help with this issue! :heart :heart I want to report back that having a combination of accountability and ideas is really working, and I have been able to drastically reduce the yelling that goes on. :phew

:heart :heart THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! :heart :heart

[cobluegirl]

:hugheart

[Katherine]

That's an encouraging update! :heart