Did I handle this right? And advice needed?

[Psyche]

I almost posted yesterday for advice, but I figured the advice would be to GOMB a little more so I endeavored to do that yesterday. However, I still need advice and feedback on a situation.

Last night we took the kids to TCP, since DS1 needed shorts. He was terrible. Running all over the store, refusing to hold hands, grabbing every thing. I kept giving him warnings and warnings and warnings. I finally just held his hand, and he would go limp, still grab stuff and started to scream. So I took him out of the store and made him sit outside (with me of course). I told him that his behavior was unacceptable and he was going to sit outside since he couldn't behave appropriately for the store. He cried, then said he would behave (or something to that effect). I told him he lost his chance and that we would wait outside for Daddy.

Now, looking back, I think I should have taken him out MUCH sooner. But should I have given him a second chance? Knowing him, it wouldn't have improved his behavior any, but I'm not sure I handled it with grace. :shrug3

This is symptomatic of the larger problem of that he will not listen. Sometimes it takes a coupel reminders in the home, where he does best. We went outside yesterday and the students were flying kites. So I got his out. He wanted to help the students with their kites. Which is very sweet, but the help of a 3 year old isn't exactly helpful, kwim? So I was trying to rein him in, to distract him with something else (golf club and ball or his kite) and he'd have nothing of it.

Now, mind you, I don't think he's being deliberately disobedient or intentionally bad, but its like he's either so over stimulated that he cannot reign himself in or he's so focused that he cannot divert his attention to obey, kwim? I'm not sure that's typical of a 3 YO but he's always been more active, more gas than other kids his age. I'm really at a loss on what to do with him, because he doesn't respond to redirection or gentle reprimands. The only thing that works is making him sit and that feels too punitive. Its like first its a struggle to even REALLY get his attention, even though he may seem to be looking at or listening to me, then teaching him to obey. I struggle so hard to get his attention, that the teaching part leaves me frustrated and punitive (yelling, a variation of time, etc).

[MarynMunchkins]

I think what you did was fine. :)

At about 2.5/3, I usually need to give my kids something to do in the store (I Spy is great!) to keep them entertained. Just telling them not to bother stuff is a recipe for disaster. ;)

[klpmommy]

I think what you did was fine. :)

At about 2.5/3, I usually need to give my kids something to do in the store (I Spy is great!) to keep them entertained. Just telling them not to bother stuff is a recipe for disaster. ;)


:yes And help picking out clothes. Or a stroller & a non sticky snack.

[parcadules 2003]

When my son was that age, I still brought the stroller with me so that he could sit in it if he wasn't able to stay right by me sweetly. He needed it a lot -- he just couldn't seem to keep from dashing off, or ducking under clothing racks, or what have you. He was much better even by three and a half, which is good because that's when his brother was born and I started needing the stroller more for him. Though even then I would sling the baby and put older ds in the stroller if it became necessary.

[arymanth]

I almost posted yesterday for advice, but I figured the advice would be to GOMB a little more so I endeavored to do that yesterday. However, I still need advice and feedback on a situation.

Last night we took the kids to TCP, since DS1 needed shorts. He was terrible. Running all over the store, refusing to hold hands, grabbing every thing. I kept giving him warnings and warnings and warnings. I finally just held his hand, and he would go limp, still grab stuff and started to scream. So I took him out of the store and made him sit outside (with me of course). I told him that his behavior was unacceptable and he was going to sit outside since he couldn't behave appropriately for the store. He cried, then said he would behave (or something to that effect). I told him he lost his chance and that we would wait outside for Daddy.

Now, looking back, I think I should have taken him out MUCH sooner. But should I have given him a second chance? Knowing him, it wouldn't have improved his behavior any, but I'm not sure I handled it with grace. :shrug3



Hey, I have two almost exactly the same age as yours, you're just a month behind me! (1/31/06 and 10/13/08) :smile I've had boys like yours, my first 3 were just like that. (two of them have ADHD, so I can relate to the "more active than other kids his age" thing) It's like they run in high gear and you can't really slow them down, you can only sort of guide the tornado to areas where it can do less damage. :giggle Something that helped me was keeping them engaged whenever we were out, usually verbally. We talked, almost non-stop when we were in the store. That didn't give their minds time to wander to things they shouldn't be doing, it kept them focused on me. Yes, it's harder to shop that way, but it sure beat chasing them, threatening them, leaving the store and having to apologize for their behavior. :blush I tried to crank my own energy level up to match theirs, and if at all possible, to wear them down physically before we had to go anywhere that I needed him to be quiet. It helped to remember that they can't help being stuck on "high" all the time. I have ADD myself, so I can totally understand what it's like when your brain races all the time and you couldn't slow it down if your life depended on it. I can only imagine what it must be like to couple that mental energy with adrenaline and the physical energy of youth. Yikes! (If I was as active physically as I am mentally, I would be a human pinball!)

It must be frustrating to kids like this to feel the way they do and have people tell them that they are being "inapprorpiate" or being punished for things that they just can't control. An older child I could see working with, but a 3yo is just not going to be very successful at impulse control and if you are expecting him to behave calmly when everything in him is screaming at him to MOVE, you are going to be very frustrated, too. Personally, I wouldn't do "warnings", because that is expecting him to control his own behavior, and it sounds like that might just be too tall of an order for him at the moment, so you will be setting him up to fail. Instead, I would try to keep him engaged and "coach" him on his behavior, giving him positive "reminders" on how to act instead of "warnings" on how not to behave. I'd also keep these kinds of outings to as few as possible until he gets a little older. Honestly, I feel bad for the little guy, I know how it feels to have people disappointed in you for things that are just too hard for you to control. I agree that he isn't doing this stuff because he's "bad", he's just not in control yet. Why punish him, even "gently" for something he can't really help? Why make him feel bad for something he can't do yet?

This is symptomatic of the larger problem of that he will not listen. Sometimes it takes a coupel reminders in the home, where he does best. We went outside yesterday and the students were flying kites. So I got his out. He wanted to help the students with their kites. Which is very sweet, but the help of a 3 year old isn't exactly helpful, kwim? So I was trying to rein him in, to distract him with something else (golf club and ball or his kite) and he'd have nothing of it

Now, mind you, I don't think he's being deliberately disobedient or intentionally bad, but its like he's either so over stimulated that he cannot reign himself in or he's so focused that he cannot divert his attention to obey, kwim? I'm not sure that's typical of a 3 YO but he's always been more active, more gas than other kids his age. I'm really at a loss on what to do with him, because he doesn't respond to redirection or gentle reprimands. The only thing that works is making him sit and that feels too punitive. Its like first its a struggle to even REALLY get his attention, even though he may seem to be looking at or listening to me, then teaching him to obey. I struggle so hard to get his attention, that the teaching part leaves me frustrated and punitive (yelling, a variation of time, etc).
.

You said it yourself, he can't rein it in... but as he gets older he WILL be able to. Just be patient and don't expect him to listen yet. Expect him to need help and reminders for awhile yet. I think a lot of our frustration as parents comes when we expect our kids to be able to do things that are beyond their current capacity. I don't expect my 3yo to listen to me. I'm happy if she does, and I am working with her towards that goal, but I do not EXPECT that kind of behavior from her at this point. When she does listen, I praise her, and when she doesn't, I work with her to do what she needs to do. She will be able to listen to me much better at 4 than she does at 3, and better at 5 than at 4. Just because she needs extra help now doesn't mean that she's doing anything wrong, it's just a sign that she's not matured to that point yet.

Obedience is a good goal, but real obedience is a lot easier when someone works with you to learn how to do things right, rather than punishing you when you get it wrong. You are right, making him sit can be a way of being punitive, if it's a way of finding what hurts him and using that to make him do what you want. You already know that he can't help wanting to move, so how is making him sit still going to solve anything?

High energy kids like this remind me of Border Collies. They're smart, they've got tons of energy, but if you don't keep them focused on a job, they can get into all sorts of trouble. With positive reinforcement, lots of one on one attention and diligent training, these dogs can be some of the most useful, productive animals in the world, but if you expect them to just lay around the house/yard and not get into anything, you can be in for massive disappointment. Just because they need a higher level of interaction than a lazy lap dog doesn't make them "bad", they just have different needs, and it's unreasonable to punish them for being what they are. A toddler who needs a higher level of interaction and who is not content to just follow you quietly around a store or sit in a cart is not "bad" or "disobedient", they just are what they are. It's our job as parents to recognize this and to meet their needs accordingly. Don't try to train them to be something they aren't, try to help them become better at what they are designed to be.

Eventually this will get better, I promise!

Stephanie
mom to seven sensational kids!!!