Refusal to comply....what to do?

[azlayla]

We've struggled with alot of car misbehavior but this one has me at a loss.

My newly 6 DD likes to act up in the car. She unbuckles, throws things, spits, sings loudly (all while smiling) etc. If I tell her to stop she says with a smile No!

So, we do the usual routine pull over and say "We are not moving until you are ready to behave appropriately" But this becomes a game for her, she will say "ok, I'm ready" I start the car and then it's "No, I'm not" this continues. "Till I finally say, STOP! I've tried taking her out of the car to make her wait outside. But getting her out of the car is another game.

I need suggestions, nothing I'm doing has any long term effect. She usually starts right back after we're on the road again.

She is an attention getter which we are working on curbing, by providing spontaneous hugs, having her "help" with what we are doing, having special time, just making her feel like she is an important part of this family.

Overall she loves to say "No, you can't make me" or "you are not the boss of me" She takes things and runs. Refuses to do anything I ask her. And she knows I can't physically make her all the time. Usually, it turns into a chasing or restling things out of her hand game, my last resort. What to do with that? However, during "other" times she does what I ask with extreme cooperation. "Yes, Mother I'd LOVE to! She's very bipolar :giggle

Do you use the comfy corner at this age? She always tells me "No, I feel fine" If I insist that she needs to take time to relax until she is willing to behave respectfully, she throws major tantrums or runs and smiles.

She drives me crazy :yes I'm praying about it, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I'm the one who needs a behavior chart :shrug3

[parcadules 2003]

You know, I wish I had more help to offer -- I was keeping track of your question because it sounds like your 6 yo is somewhat similar to my nearly-6yo ds. What I have found helpful with him, though it's really difficult for me to maintain the energy needed to do it constantly, is to step outside of the dynamic where I am telling him to do something and having to react when he doesn't obey. Honestly, I think I might avoid being in the car as much as possible. For a while.

And I try to break up what I need him to do into really concrete steps, rather than saying "Behave better" or "Don't do XYZ." My son was having real trouble with dropoff at school. He wouldn't get out of the car, needed a thousand kisses and goodbyes, and kept trying to come back. One day, though, I talked it through with him really carefully in the afternoon, explaining that tomorrow he would need to (a) get straight out of the car, so have backpack ready, (b) say "good morning" to the teacher on duty, and (c) hurry straight into the school. I reminded him in the morning on the way, and had him list the three things for me. And you know what? He did it! I had been focusing so much on what not to do ("don't dawdle!" "don't be rude to the teacher!" "Don't pretend your backpack is stuck so you can't get out!" -- he needed me to focus on what things he SHOULD be doing.

I hope that helps at least somewhat, and I'm going to keep watching this question for wiser responses than mine! :)

[azlayla]

...yes, I agree. Thanks for the post. I'm trying to prep for every forseable situation but I get caught off guard quite a bit.

Any mammas know of natural consequences for " ha, ha you can't make me" attitude. Or how I can understand the behavior better :scratch

[Amy]

I would pick up "5 love languages for children" and read it. It sounds like her tank is kind of empty :hug2. Her language may not be touch (the hugging you mentioned) but maybe something else like acts of service or quality time, even words of encouragement. I hope it does the trick for you!

[azlayla]

Yes, The Five Love Lang. for Kids is great. I have read it and I do agree that she is showing signs of her love tank not being full. She is physical touch, gifts and words of affirmation. I'm still trying to evaluate her and to find her primary.

[KarenBoo]

Well, I do not have a "btdt" reply for you, but I am reading a book right now called Screamfree Parenting. I don't yet know if I can recommend it, but an example is in the book that is similar to your problem. (I don't know if I can recommend it because so far, I haven't gotten very much out of it. I know what *not* to do, but I haven't gotten much help on how to make changes.)

The author talks about our children "challenging" us in some form, and he tells us to not accept the challenge. Ha, right! :giggle much easier said than done! But I know one reply you could use is "you are right, I can't make you do it and I'm not the boss of you." Start with that. Now, that's the end of the "book advice," and now on to my own.

From that point, I'd discuss your needs and her needs. "I need to go to the grocery store because we are out of eggs." or whatever. Engage her in discussions of how she thinks she can help you get your needs met, and listen to her about her needs. Ask her if she knows why she's doing these things and see if y'all can brainstorm together about making the car rides go more smoothly. Does she have enough stuff to do? snack on? My DD has a Leapster game that she loves. For a very long time, I deemed it the "car toy" and it had to stay in the car and that was the only place I let her play with it. My DD also is compelled to eat in the car. She could have just finished a big meal, but as soon as she gets in the car, she says "I'm hungry!" :giggle I make sure to bring healthy foods for her to eat that aren't too messy. Hamburger patties, chopped fruit, blanched veggies, olives. I put it all in a cooler and give it to DD so she has control over it. I do this, even for short trips.

I also agree with the other poster, I'd not take her in the car as much as possible until the dynamic is changed.

Also, if my DD (nearly 6) were to do this, I would not give her the control over whether or not the car is stopped or going. I would keep on driving. I would probably plan some trips that I didn't mind giving up on. If she starts to act up, then I'd turn around and drive straight home. If she unbuckled, I'd have a very big reaction to that - stop the car, remove toys, games, food, etc. (That may be punative, but it's what I'd do.) I would tell her to buckle immediately and we would go home. I'd give her the stuff back when the seat belt was buckled again.

Does she get an allowance? I would also think about experimenting with a "ticket" for unbuckling. In real life, you would be fined a hefty fine if you got pulled over, right? You could explain the law to her and tell her that if she unbuckles, she's going to have to pay a ticket. (I'm assumming that you've done the "safety talk" and that she's ignoring that bit. But definitely review that part.) Again, give this some good thinking because I'm just brainstorming, and on my second read-thru, this sounds punative.

Another idea - my DD went to a day camp called "Safety Town." Every day they had a different safety topic. There is something about a different person telling my DD this information. She came home each day to tell me what she had learned, and she wanted to teach it to me! So if you have a friend who is a police officer, you could ask him/her to wear the uniform and come give an informal, light, fun talk about car safety (including the bit about not being distractive to the driver.) Or, you could do a little "study" yourself - look for coloring sheets & games & such online to make a little study out of it.

[newday]

:popcorn

[ReedleBeetle]

Wow! there is some good stuff in there KarenBoo! :rockon

[azlayla]

Yes, that sounds great Karen, thanks for the post! I too have read many books that go into detail on what not to do but the what *to* do part is what I need.

[ArmsOfLove]

for me, the unbuckling would be a deal breaker--other stuff I can ignore and require them to clean up later (and make amends for). I would look into putting her into a booster seat that has a buckle I could fix so it's not easily undone. At her age that is usually enough ime to put a stop to unbuckling.

When I pull over I usually say nothing--sometimes it takes children awhile to realize I've stopped ;) When they ask why we're not moving I tell them, very calmly, "It's not safe to drive while children are misbehaving so I'm not risking our lives." and I make sure that we're going somewhere they want to go ;)

If it was really chronic I'd plan some outings just to do this and the very first time she does it I'd turn around and we'd go home. I would let her know that this behavior is no longer acceptable. But don't introduce it on the way to somewhere you want to go :giggle After she gets the seriousness it probably won't take many missed outings she wanted to realize you're serious. Then I'd let her know that misbehaving on family outings means canceling the next fun outing for her.

I got serious about this when it was more than driving me crazy but truly dangerous (either unbuckling or literally unsafe to drive) and I let the children know that if they make going out unpleasant/unsafe then I refuse to go. We talked about how *I* need to enjoy myself when we go places or it's not worth taking them because taking them is a lot of work.

[newday]

I love what Crystal has said.

Although I think the Love and Logic books are mostly about behaviour modification, some of their advice could be helpful also. Some of the ideas are far fetched, but some are really reasonable and sane.

In the end, though, I really think Crystal makes sense here. I have planned a fun outing knowing that my dd was going to sabotage it... And been prepared to help the other dd with something pleasant to do so she isn't entirely "punished" for her sister's making the outing impossible. Sometimes it has required dd1 making up something to her sister because they weren't able to go to the (library) as planned...

[Tracy]

Ref: the unbuckling.

Hi Crystal! I'm back. It's Tracy from WA state. This incident just happened to me and my 20m dd. she has learned how to unbuckle the top part of her seat. I told my DH--It's time to put her in the next car seat that snaps on top, so she won't be able to undo it.

I've been taking the Love and Logic class for the 36 hours I need for continue education as a foster license parent. Don't really agree with everything they teach. That's why I'm here. I'm back to relearn and learn again what Crystal has taught us. Thanks Crystal. We love you.

Tracy

[Soliloquy]

Couple of thoiughts ... First, she's right, you can't "make" her do what you want. You could start by agreeing w/ her and telling her why you can't drive while she does those things. Ask her to help you find a solution: you will not take her in the car while she does those things because it's not safe. She needs/wants ... What? You could try going straight home instead of pulling over. I know it's hard...my dd is similar.

[Proverbs31]

just quick on the unbuckling and throwing things in the car (the two that are just plain dangerous):

When dd unbuckled, we stopped. Reminded her that it is dangerous to herself and others to be unbuckled in the case of an accident, and is also against the law. Told her that if she ever unbuckled herself while we were driving again, we would change our trip to go to the police station so a police officer could explain to her how important it is to stay buckled.

Since then, she has threatened to unbuckle herself, but after being reminded of the above, has never actually done so. And if she ever would, I would indeed drive to the police station and ask an officer to speak with her. Not in a scary boogeyman kind of way, but in a "this is *very* serious" kind of way.

When she has thrown things in the vehicle, I stop, and tell her that doing so is extremely dangerous and can cause an accident that hurts people or things, or could even kill someone. Then I remove anything she could throw from her reach for the remainder of the trip, telling her she can try again next time. This includes removing shoes/boots/socks (I do put them back on when we reach our destination and get out). There generally shouldn't be loose objects in a vehicle anyway, since they can cause serious injury in an accident, but I do sometimes let her have a soft stuffed animal and that is taken away too. This works pretty well; I can count on one hand the number of trips she's thrown things.

Unfortunately on the extreme loudness/spitting/bad attitude I have not found a solution. :sigh So :popcorn !

[newday]

just quick on the unbuckling and throwing things in the car (the two that are just plain dangerous):

When dd unbuckled, we stopped. Reminded her that it is dangerous to herself and others to be unbuckled in the case of an accident, and is also against the law. Told her that if she ever unbuckled herself while we were driving again, we would change our trip to go to the police station so a police officer could explain to her how important it is to stay buckled.

Since then, she has threatened to unbuckle herself, but after being reminded of the above, has never actually done so. And if she ever would, I would indeed drive to the police station and ask an officer to speak with her. Not in a scary boogeyman kind of way, but in a "this is *very* serious" kind of way.

When she has thrown things in the vehicle, I stop, and tell her that doing so is extremely dangerous and can cause an accident that hurts people or things, or could even kill someone. Then I remove anything she could throw from her reach for the remainder of the trip, telling her she can try again next time. This includes removing shoes/boots/socks (I do put them back on when we reach our destination and get out). There generally shouldn't be loose objects in a vehicle anyway, since they can cause serious injury in an accident, but I do sometimes let her have a soft stuffed animal and that is taken away too. This works pretty well; I can count on one hand the number of trips she's thrown things.

Unfortunately on the extreme loudness/spitting/bad attitude I have not found a solution. :sigh So :popcorn !


You might want to go to the police station some time just to let an officer explain things, maybe that would be helpful...

I try to ignore being loud but there is a point where it is as much a safety issue as anything mentioned - you are supposed to be able to hear sirens, if you can't then it isn't safe. In my car I have the rule that the first priority is that mama can drive safely and well, if someone is impeding my ability to drive safely and well then they are breaking rules that I can enforce, they can't be in the car with me. Being very loud or spitting would be much too distracting for me to drive well.
But the rule is known and repeated long before an offense is happening...

Bad attitudes are fine with me as long as others don't have to suffer because of them.

[Soliloquy]

One thing I forgot to mention is Playful Parenting. It's not a strategy that comes naturally to me but it helps diffuse tempers and actually works.