It sounds like semantics but it's a huge paradigm shift [Archive]

ArmsOfLove

01-05-2009, 09:46 PM

this idea that has been drilled into me from all sorts of angles--what I read, magazines, tv shows, people (mostly left brainers :P~)--that if you just do the right thing you will "tame the chaos". I summarily give up the fight :)

I do not have it within me to tame chaos--that is for God to do. What I'm finding my right brained emphasis as of late has provided is this new concept . . . what I thought was chaos was just what didn't fit into the left thinking world's paradigm definition of order :jawdrop

IOW . . . hold on here . . . IT'S NOT CHAOS!

Just because it doesn't fit in a daytimer . . . it's not chaos
Just because it doesn't fit in a box with right angles and specific dimensions . . . it's not chaos
Just because it can't be completed in a pre-determined block of time . . . it's not chaos
Just because it's defined by feelings, or intuition, or some sense I can't put into words doesn't make it any more chaotic or any less real and ordered to me than what someone else does for them.

it's who I am; it's how my brain works; it's what God made for me to live in. And I've spent far too much time trying to order chaos when what I was trying to do was control what God was doing in my life because it didn't look like the people/magazine/tv show said it should look.

So in the last couple of weeks I stopped all the hard work efforts and . . . . just went with it. I thought I was going to embrace the chaos and instead I got embraced by chaos theory--I started to find the pattern in what had previously appeared to be chaos. I started to see the order. And the more I immerse myself in it the more the order becomes plain as the nose on my face :heart

It's a lot more easier to embrace how the Lord made me and how He has ordered my life :) I'm glad I gave up the fight :heart

mama-hobbit

01-05-2009, 09:49 PM

:) :rockon

RubySlippers

01-05-2009, 10:17 PM

I really, really want to understand what you're saying, but I can't quite get it. :O
Can you give an example or application?

HummusDip

01-05-2009, 10:30 PM

:heart :heart :heart
THank you for sharing.

MarynMunchkins

01-05-2009, 11:20 PM

:heart

I think, with a large family in particular, it's vital to understand that there will be loud disorder at times that occurs just because there's lots of people.

(That was a reminder for me too. :P)

J3K

01-05-2009, 11:22 PM

:yes :yes Along those same lines... I went thru a phase where I thought I had to have my house in perfect order. It was causing me untold amounts of stress. Then it occurred to me...*I* live here. Not the lady in the magazine who is really an actress hired to stand in a pretty room...not the lady on tv who has enough money for a maid...ME. I know where everything is , if I had to get my house "spit-spot" it wouldn't take more than an hour at any given time...and gosh darnit...I LIKE IT THIS WAY.

Likewise with life...especially homeschooling three kids and having five pets. It hit me again one day that I don't want my life to be like that I see on tv / books / magazines. It may look chaotic to others the way we all arise at different hours , go to bed at different hours , eat different foods at meal times , and the way we "scramble" to get out the door...but it's a pattern..and it works. I've had adults tell me my house/life is cluttered and chaotic...and the children of those same adults tell me it's the most relaxed house they've ever been in. :giggle

I spent too many unhappy years living the way others think I should.

ArmsOfLove

01-05-2009, 11:24 PM

I really, really want to understand what you're saying, but I can't quite get it. :O
Can you give an example or application?
are you left brained? ;) :hug

I've spent a lot of time over the years trying to impose a routine on us because we didn't seem to have a routine. I felt like we all needed to do the same thing at the same time and be on the same page . . . very logical, ordered.

what I'm realizing is that we have a rhythm but with all of the children and us and the ages and stages . . . it's more like an Oingo Boingo track :giggle

You can't make Oingo Boingo sound or play like Mozart. It's its own genre. It has its own rhythm. And it's not "less than" because it's different.

does that help?

RiverRock

01-06-2009, 09:31 AM

I totally get where you are coming from, Crystal. I think I am a little of both brains (being ambidextrous might have something to do with that), but a book that I read last year that really resonated with me is: A Perfect Mess: The Hidden Benefits of Disorder: How crammed closets, cluttered offices and on-the-fly planning make the world a better place. Reading this book changed my expectations of myself. I can do all the organizing and cleaning that others might think are desirable, but I would lose a bit of my passion in life to have to always live like that. The other part of me does, however, need a certain amount of order to counteract the chaos. ;)

WanderingJuniper

01-06-2009, 09:51 AM

:hug I totally get what you are saying. :yes From the outside our life looks chaotic and without routine but from within it has its own rhythm and flow. Things have a place and tidy exists just not as others expect it to. :yes Ooh, there is a word for this but it is escaping me at the moment.

ArmsOfLove

01-06-2009, 11:27 AM

and I do want to say that I think it's great that left brainers can be all organized the way they are and live with that sort of structure :tu I just can't--and it's killing me to try :(

Lantern Light Mama

01-06-2009, 11:31 AM

I'm struggling a little in this area too ;).

NoodleMom

01-06-2009, 11:43 AM

I think I get what you are saying Crystal. As I was reading the OP even b/4 I got to where you talked about taming the chaos I was thinking thats about control. The chaos that my life is really does have some kind of order. I call it organized chaos. I think at this point in time the chaos that is my life is probably the biggest strain, stressor for me.
Mary talked about the noise, that is a stressor also. It seems that they are always loud, screaming,yelling and just be loud for the sake of being loud. I toy with the idea of buying ear plugs or those big head phone things to block the noise.

K

RubySlippers

01-06-2009, 11:57 AM

I'm a little left of center-brained, so I could almost understand the concept, but not able to fully embrace it?
Thanks, Jenni, your illustration helped. :hug
*I* still like and prefer a clean home not because of outside pressure from mags or society, but because it calms my mind.
I feel I can breathe, relax. I feel more serene.
With the lovable, messy bunch I live with, it's a type of order that is impossible to maintain.
Either I try to create order to the distress of others, or I completely surrender to the chaos since
I can't possibly keep it the way that *I* feel most comfortable. But that surrender feels depressing.
I don't mind having a different rhythm than other families, i.e. times we wake up, loose school schedule, etc.
But, the house still bothers me. I'd like to find a happy balance.
If there's something I'm not understanding to reach that kind of peace, I want to understand it.

Lantern Light Mama

01-06-2009, 12:06 PM

One thing I am trying to do differently is to view chaos as a blessing and a sign of a full life (if it is positive chaos). :shifty

Raspberries

01-06-2009, 12:10 PM

Crystal I find this very helpful. I can be totally organized with some things, but with my home, I have a hard time keeping it organized to other people's standards. The problem, is that my DH is opposite. So we might see a room two totally different ways. He's stressed out and overwhelmed, I see it as being lived in and busy, but not stressful. It's hard to find a balance. I try SOOOO hard to keep it organized to his standard, but alas, my brain just doesn't like his does.

What is ironic, is that I'm extremely efficient at organizing a space or keeping paperwork organized. So there is this huge disconnect between that and the way I keep my own home.

ReedleBeetle

01-06-2009, 12:50 PM

How do you know which brained you are? I don't think the thumb test works, but maybe?

I struggle with wanting a neat, tidy, picture perfect home and giving up due to reality. And I don't like reality as much. I need to start viewing it more positively too.

RubySlippers

01-06-2009, 01:23 PM

Ya know what? Just forget I said anything. :blush
I realize that my need for order is the ADHD talking. I live with a high level of frustration daily
because I cannot find things and get distracted by the chaos. My mind is literally on one thing
then the next, then the next. It takes me longer to find anything when I don't know exactly
where it is and heaven forbid somebody moves it from where it should be! :ph
I'll lose my pen/pencil 10x's and it's right in front of me.
So, my need for order is a cry for sanity that I may never get.
Just picture Mad Hatter or Mad Scientist and that's what I look like in chaos. :neutral

I'm glad you found a way to think about it that brings peace to you, Crystal. :hug :heart

ArmsOfLove

01-06-2009, 01:28 PM

:hug ITU

I have add tendencies as does dh and I'm actually working towards a place for everything and everything in its place but it's looking very different than how I've tried (and failed) to do it for years. It's an order that makes sense to me so that I can actually navigate it. That's the thing--it's totally *not* chaos :tu It's just something more organic that involves allowing it to order itself. If things keep going back to a certain place then I figure out why and what I can do to create a place for it *there*

ReedleBeetle

01-06-2009, 01:34 PM

:idea Like shoes! We kept having shoes wing up next to the front foor instead of in closets. So now, we have a shelf for our day-to-day shoes and it looks so much neater....and it fits our family!

Lantern Light Mama

01-06-2009, 03:28 PM

That is what it has come down to for me to now. I realize if I can manage the mess where it is I am more likely to use my storage. One day at a time. Small steps.

mom2jolakeil

01-06-2009, 03:36 PM

ITU! I'm not a neat person. Let me rephrase that, I WANT to be a neat person. I WANT to have everything in it's place, but the semantics of it just don't work. I would like to blame it all on dh (he doesn't get "put it back where you got it from" :doh) but it's me and the kids too. I just can't remember where things go :shifty I know where they ARE, but not where they GO (does that make sense?).

Jen, you pointed something out that reminded me of a beloved person from my childhood :heart Her house was NEVER clean. NEVER. But, you know what? She was the most hospitable person I've ever met :heart It didn't matter that if you wanted to sit down you had to clear a chair, you felt like you belonged at her house :rockon People at church tried to change her. They'd come in and organize her house, clear her clutter and before long her house was back to it's cluttered state with anyone who needed a place to crash staying. I loved her house and her personality :rockon The very epitome of Christ in my life had a cluttered, messy house with the BIGGEST heart and an open door. More people saw/see Christ in her than anyone else I've ever met :yes :heart

Allison

01-06-2009, 03:44 PM

My left brain understands what you are saying. :lol It takes different brains to make the world go 'round. There is no one right way to organize a life. What works for one won't work for every other. :yes

You go, mama. I'm glad you've had this epiphany and that it's bringing you peace!

Quiteria

01-06-2009, 03:49 PM

subbing...

ArmsOfLove

01-06-2009, 03:53 PM

:phew I just finished organizing the boys' room and it actually feels like it might work this time. In the past I've bought all identical storage boxes and then been frustrated that not everything fit in them (even with different sizes--some things just don't *work* in some storage boxes :scratch). This time there are several different kinds of boxes but everything seems to *fit* in something so that is where it is :giggle It's like the difference between telling things where they will live and asking them where they belong.

I *need* to organize the dress up stuff but then that room is very close to being done. dh is going to paint chalkboard paint on the backs of some doors and then :tu :tu

Jenjardin

01-06-2009, 04:44 PM

It's like the difference between telling things where they will live and asking them where they belong.

Hmm, I think I'm gonna to chew on this a little and see where it takes me.

ArmsOfLove

01-06-2009, 05:10 PM

:giggle

Oh, and if you're not sure which brain you are dominant . . . http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php?p=27

MidnightCafe

01-06-2009, 05:25 PM

Here's a fun little right brain/left brain test: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22556281-661,00.html

mom2jolakeil

01-06-2009, 08:49 PM

I'm definitely right brained apparently. I can NOT get her to turn counter clockwise, dh can go back and forth.

ArmsOfLove

01-06-2009, 08:51 PM

what's freaky is when I was looking at it *with* my best friend and she saw he going one way and I saw her going another :jawdrop

Quiteria

01-06-2009, 09:32 PM

I finally go it to go both ways!!!! (Close one eye and keep staring a while.) Then it took a bit to get it back again...had to close the other eye. I still can't figure out how/why, though. :think

ReedleBeetle

01-06-2009, 09:57 PM

I absolutely can *not* get her to go anyway but counter clockwise....and don't see how anyone could see anything else. :shrug

ReedleBeetle

01-06-2009, 10:00 PM

NEVERMIND! I was reading the Herald sun thing and she changed direction! Then she changed back for a second and now she is back to giong clockwise. WEIRD! :lol

ReedleBeetle

01-06-2009, 10:01 PM

Now I can't get her to go counter clockwise. :scratch Strange!

Lantern Light Mama

01-06-2009, 10:01 PM

Yeah ,it went clock-wise and counter clock-wise for me to, with little effort.

Teribear

01-06-2009, 10:36 PM

Heather Micaela

01-06-2009, 11:06 PM

It's like the difference between telling things where they will live and asking them where they belong.

Hmm, I think I'm gonna to chew on this a little and see where it takes me.

My friend Basil, who has been the most helpful to me in managing my ADD tendencies gave me a new piece of insight. He said when you start to look for something the first place you look, no matter how strange it may seem, is where that object "goes"...once you find the object if you put it in the first place you looked you will be able to keep track of it every time. He's a technical writer and knows I'm an engineer by training so he created this flow chart for me:

10 Is object in Location A?
20 If Yes Go to 80
30 Search another location
40 If object found go to 70
50 If tired of looking go to 60 else 30
60 Buy object
70 Put object in Location A
80 end

That flow chart is cracking me up - but it would really help me.

I have no idea what brain I am but I know that some organizing for me seems to make "chaos" out of order.

Like folding underwear. I mean *seriously*. Underwear? If I have to add the task of folding something NOONE will ever see I will have undewear all over the house.

My new organization is still a place for everything, but if it has to be folded or placed neatly in a spot to make it fit, then it is hyperorganized. I need it to be able to be tossed in w/o effort

Quiteria

01-06-2009, 11:09 PM

Lantern Light Mama

01-06-2009, 11:10 PM

Heather, this is OT but I like your new avi. :rockon :heart

Quiteria

01-06-2009, 11:13 PM

Heather Micaela

01-06-2009, 11:15 PM

My new organization is still a place for everything, but if it has to be folded or placed neatly in a spot to make it fit, then it is hyperorganized. I need it to be able to be tossed in w/o effort

YES! This is why I can't get the family to STAY organized. Working on bins and such...

We also only have enough clothes per drawer that can be put in *without* folding. Folding is a bonus.

Heather, this is OT but I like your new avi. :rockon :heart

Thanks :heart It will likely come down soon now that the holdiays are over though

WanderingJuniper

01-07-2009, 06:11 AM

I knew I was right brained but not how much. I cannot get that silhouette to spin any other way that clockwise. :no

BlessedBlue

01-07-2009, 06:19 AM

It's like the difference between telling things where they will live and asking them where they belong.

Hmm, I think I'm gonna to chew on this a little and see where it takes me.

My friend Basil, who has been the most helpful to me in managing my ADD tendencies gave me a new piece of insight. He said when you start to look for something the first place you look, no matter how strange it may seem, is where that object "goes"...once you find the object if you put it in the first place you looked you will be able to keep track of it every time. He's a technical writer and knows I'm an engineer by training so he created this flow chart for me:

10 Is object in Location A?
20 If Yes Go to 80
30 Search another location
40 If object found go to 70
50 If tired of looking go to 60 else 30
60 Buy object
70 Put object in Location A
80 end

:jawdrop :haha Oh thank you! I was having :idea :idea :idea with this thread, but you just represented my Dad for me. He was very left brained, and he made flow charts for me all. the. time! :hug2

euromom

01-07-2009, 06:55 AM

I only had a chance to skim through the replies, but Crystal as far as your OP ITU! I think noodlemom said something similar but I have always considered myself someone who likes "Organized Messes" :giggle That's the way *I* work. I am all about piles. I do not mind there being piles of stuff all over my house as long as I know what is *in* each pile. It is not orderly in the way all the magazines and such would have, but it is *my* order. I don't have as large a family as you but I have been trying to "organize" our home since I was pregnant with dd to no avail....sometimes I feel like I am *still* nesting and she is about to turn one! :shifty :giggle My house still looks the same no matter how much I try to bring more "order" to our "chaos" Your post encourages me that as long as we are ok with it, there is no need to stress out about it and live up to other peoples standards of how are home "should" look. :phew

MidnightCafe

01-07-2009, 08:03 AM

I didn't get a chance to say this last night because I was busy looking for left-brain/right-brain info :shifty , but this thread really caught my attention because I *do* keep an organized/structured house, but I have a lot of trouble organizing/structuring homeschool and just daily routines. Well...now that I've read this, I'm not sure that it's "trouble" exactly...just that I don't function the same way a lot of other people do with regard to daily routines. I'm forever trying to get us more organized about homeschooling...and forever just "giving in" to the flow of the day. :shrug

ArmsOfLove

01-07-2009, 10:15 AM

NEVERMIND! I was reading the Herald sun thing and she changed direction! Then she changed back for a second and now she is back to giong clockwise. WEIRD! :lol
I'm betting when you went to *read* you shifted into your left brain :)

ArmsOfLove

01-07-2009, 10:19 AM

well if you're realizing you're totally right brained you might want to go check out my Monochronotebook thread in this forum :tu

Jenjardin

01-07-2009, 12:23 PM

It's like the difference between telling things where they will live and asking them where they belong.

Hmm, I think I'm gonna to chew on this a little and see where it takes me.

My friend Basil, who has been the most helpful to me in managing my ADD tendencies gave me a new piece of insight. He said when you start to look for something the first place you look, no matter how strange it may seem, is where that object "goes"...once you find the object if you put it in the first place you looked you will be able to keep track of it every time. He's a technical writer and knows I'm an engineer by training so he created this flow chart for me:

10 Is object in Location A?
20 If Yes Go to 80
30 Search another location
40 If object found go to 70
50 If tired of looking go to 60 else 30
60 Buy object
70 Put object in Location A
80 end

:giggle You know, I like that. I can never figure out if I'm left or right brained because sometimes I fall into one category and sometimes the other. So this flow chart satisfies my left brain while simultaneously validating my right brain. :phew